Is faith a work?

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Can you provide the verse that says we are given faith in salvation?

They are not. The verses do NOT say faith is given in salvation. It DOES say we are saved by grace, through faith. The "faith" is our response to the gospel.

Faith comes by hearing. That implies it comes from outside of you.

Where does the hearing occur? INside your skull. That's where faith occurs. Which is what Rom 10:10 says. "man believes with his heart". In the Bible, the word "heart" always refers to the inner being, the soul, including one's thoughts, emotions, etc.

Matthew 13 is very instructive here. Jesus explaining why He spoke in parables explains that to some it has been given to hear and understand and see and perceive. He goes on to explain if this was given to the others they would understand in their heart and be converted and be healed.

Actually, He spoke in parables to those who would never respond in faith.

The idea that God would withhold truth from any one who WOULD believe is unbiblical.

That hearing and seeing that leads to conversion is faith. Absent this faith none believe.

Faith is the substance of what is believed. That is the difference.

 

[Cameron143]

FreeGrace2 said:
Can you provide the verse that says we are given faith in salvation?

They are not. The verses do NOT say faith is given in salvation. It DOES say we are saved by grace, through faith. The "faith" is our response to the gospel.

Where does the hearing occur? INside your skull. That's where faith occurs. Which is what Rom 10:10 says. "man believes with his heart". In the Bible, the word "heart" always refers to the inner being, the soul, including one's thoughts, emotions, etc.


Actually, He spoke in parables to those who would never respond in faith.

The idea that God would withhold truth from any one who WOULD believe is unbiblical.


Faith is the substance of what is believed. That is the difference.

I appreciate you taking the time to respond. Grace and peace.

 

[Mem]

God knows the number of hairs on my head, and I might endeavor to pull them out one by one and count them to see if this is true!! If I do this, do I have faith that he isn't lying? Jesus Christ offers Himself to place faith in. If we don't believe Him, we haven't placed our faith in Him. If we receive His Word as true, that is faith. So, in that sense, he gives us faith, being faithful and true.

Is it our work or His work then? It is my opinion that this was Jesus' yoke we are to take, an easy and light burden of which he takes the lion's share of the work but a burden, nonetheless.

 

[Runningman]

New International Version
For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you.

New Living Translation
Because of the privilege and authority God has given me, I give each of you this warning: Don’t think you are better than you really are. Be honest in your evaluation of yourselves, measuring yourselves by the faith God has given us.

English Standard Version
For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.

Berean Literal Bible
For through the grace having been given to me, I say to everyone being among you, not to be high-minded above what it behooves you to think, but to think so as to be sober-minded, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.

King James Bible
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

New King James Version
For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.

Your disagreement is not with me.

Your disagreement is not with me. Take it up with God.

1 Corinthians 3:5-9 NIV
5What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task.
6I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow.
7So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow.
8The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and they will each be rewarded according to their own labor.
9For we are co-workers in God’s service; you are God’s field, God’s building.

 

[Runningman]

SO HOW ARE YOU GOING TO DO THAT?? how will you convince your self perfectly that Jesus was even real??

Clue: The Holy SPirit will reveal Him to you (eph 2:8,9)



Paul says FAITH is the gift based on God's WORD to you, and the ONLY WAY you're even CAPABLE of believeing or having faith.

Your pretense doesn’t match your conclusion.

 

[Runningman]

Faith as a gift is a Calvinist position.

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

Faith as a gift is a Calvinist position.

It's Biblical Eph 2:8,9.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Can you provide the verse that says we are given faith in salvation?

They are not. The verses do NOT say faith is given in salvation. It DOES say we are saved by grace, through faith. The "faith" is our response to the gospel.

I appreciate you taking the time to respond. Grace and peace.

And I appreciate that you have shown that you do not have verses that say that faith is given in salvation.

 

[Runningman]

It's Biblical Eph 2:8,9.

Will you please explain how faith is a gift according to that verse?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Runningman said:
Faith as a gift is a Calvinist position.

It's Biblical Eph 2:8,9.

No, it is not. The genders for faith and gift do not match.

What does match is salvation and gift, both of which are feminine genders.

Rom 6:23 describes eternal life as a gift. And that is what salvation is. That is the gift.

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

Will you please explain how faith is a gift according to that verse?

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"

What do YOU think the verse says???

 

[Runningman]

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"

What do YOU think the verse says???

I think this particular verse is saying that salvation is a gift.

For example, I can give myself and others grace, and I can have faith in anything I want to, but I can’t give myself eternal life. If I were to have eternal life, I would require God to give it to me. Glory to God.

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

I think this particular verse is saying that salvation is a gift.

TO each his own.

 

[Cameron143]

I think this particular verse is saying that salvation is a gift.

For example, I can give myself and others grace, and I can have faith in anything I want to, but I can’t give myself eternal life. If I were to have eternal life, I would require God to give it to me. Glory to God.

But can you give yourself hearing. Faith comes by hearing.
One of the reasons Jesus spoke in parables was that some were given to hear and understand and see and perceive. Others were not. Matt 13. It was said of those who were not that if it was given they would understand with their heart and be converted.
The faith necessary for conversion must be given of God if His word is to be understood.

 

[FreeGrace2]

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"

What do YOU think the verse says???

The phrase "it is the gift of God" is feminine gender. Matches "are ye saved" which is also feminine gender.

Faith is masculine.

Paul is very clearly teaching that we don't save ourselves. God saves us by grace. We don't earn it. Then Paul drove that nugget home in v.9, with: "not of works, lest any man should boast".

 

[WillB]

Eph 2:8 gives the answer to that excellent question. We are saved by grace through faith.

Our faith is the means of salvation, and that by grace. Faith precedes salvation.

Will: Thanks for your response - appreciated.

So, faith comes first followed by salvation, right?

From where, or from whom, does faith come? Is faith something that a fallen corrupt sinner can work out intellectually entirely on his own? Or is faith a gift from God?

If it is the latter does it not follow that God faith is accompanied simultaneously with salvation?

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Eph 2:8 gives the answer to that excellent question. We are saved by grace through faith.

Our faith is the means of salvation, and that by grace. Faith precedes salvation.

Will: Thanks for your response - appreciated.

You are welcome.

So, faith comes first followed by salvation, right?

From where, or from whom, does faith come? Is faith something that a fallen corrupt sinner can work out intellectually entirely on his own? Or is faith a gift from God?

As a noun, "faith" is what is believed. ie: my faith. So in that use, yes, God gives the faith, since what is believed is what is in the Bible.

The Bible is God's Word, and God has given mankind His Word. Those who believe what the Bible says has that faith.

If it is the latter does it not follow that God faith is accompanied simultaneously with salvation?

When "faith" is used in the sense of believing, that comes from the heart, per Rom 10:10.

Calvinism claims that God is the Cause of man believing the gospel, usually on the basis of being chosen and then regenerated in order to permit the chosen one to believe. This is false and muddies the water on the whole issue.

If that were true, there would really be no need for evangelism, since God is said to have chosen who He would regenerate unconditionally before the world began.

I think that Romans 10:10 clears it all up. Man believes from his heart. How? God created mankind with a conscience, with which to be able to understand right and wrong and recognize that God exists as Creator and to recognize His divine attributes.

Rom 1:19-21
19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.
20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

So mankind is without excuse.

Everyone has the ability to understand the gospel promise and to believe it. That is why Jesus Christ died for everyone. So what whosoever believes will not perish but have eternal life.

 

[Grandpa]

Nonsense. It is salvation that is the gift in Eph 2:8, which I've proved from Greek grammar.


That is correct. God does the saving.


Correct. It is by grace.


Since the genders are the SAME for salvation and gift, I WILL believe Scripture, unlike your stubborn self.


Why don't you? I've proven my belief with Greek grammar. You have nothing but your own biased opinion.


That is a fallacy. Man believes with his heart. Rom 10:10.


Apparently you have a bunch of false notions, probably from ignorant pastors or SS teachers, who have been duped themselves.

The gift of God is salvation and eternal life. Eph 2:8 and Rom 6:23

Faith or believing comes from the heart of man. Rom 10:10

The gift of God is Salvation by Grace through Faith.

None of these are from YOURSELVES. They are the gift of God.


How simple is that? Your Greek grammar argument is pure silliness and WISHFUL thinking. Not of YOURSELVES.

Just believe scripture.

 

[Grandpa]

FreeGrace2 said:
Can you provide the verse that says we are given faith in salvation?

They are not. The verses do NOT say faith is given in salvation. It DOES say we are saved by grace, through faith. The "faith" is our response to the gospel.

Where does the hearing occur? INside your skull. That's where faith occurs. Which is what Rom 10:10 says. "man believes with his heart". In the Bible, the word "heart" always refers to the inner being, the soul, including one's thoughts, emotions, etc.

What is the point of God giving us a New Heart if the one we already have believes unto Salvation???

There is no point. And that is why you're wrong.

Even the heart which believes is a Gift of God.


Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:


See how easy and simple the scriptures are? 2 simple scriptures show that your philosophy fails miserably.


Faith is part of Salvation. A New Spirit is part of Salvation. A New Heart is part of Salvation. Grace is part of Salvation. ALL are a gift of God and NOT OF YOURSELVES.

Simple. Just believe scripture.



If ANY PARTS of Salvation ARE from YOURSELVES then Salvation cannot be said to be NOT OF YOURSELVES. Salvation ABSOLUTELY IS of Yourself if YOU have to come up with the essential parts of it in order to achieve it. This isn't difficult. All you have to do is stop forcing your WISHES onto scripture and see it for what it ACTUALLY is.

 

[awelight]

Our faith is a work. The faith that causes belief in us is a gift...it is the faith of Christ. It is also the same faith that we are to live by...Galatians 2:20.
Salvation is a work begun by God in us and continued by God in us. It is always initiated by God. This was the case with Noah. This was the case with Abraham. It was the case with Adam and Eve. None of them went looking for God. He sovereignly chose to seek them out and set His affection upon them.
Adam and Eve after sin hid from God and clothed themselves. God met them in their lost estate having sought them out and clothed them in acceptable attire. The fig leaves represent the attempt to cloth themselves appropriately for God. He shed blood for their clothing thus allowing for forgiveness and pointing towards Christ.
You seem to be genuinely seeking truth and I pray God will lead you into all truth.

That was very well said. God go with you and keep you.