Trinity or Unity

CS1 · Oct 12, 2022

attacking those who do and say the teaching is demonic is pretty close.

Franc254 · Oct 12, 2022

lets revisit the bible to know whether Jesus is just limited to the son only person doctrine and the book is Romans 8:5

"Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace"...

Now as stated earlier if you read the book of 2nd Corinthians and verses 13-18

"We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to prevent the Israelites from seeing the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate[a] the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit." ....

so whenever any person who practised Judaism turned to the Lord (Christ) the veil was taken away and the author proceeds to state that the Lord (Jesus) is the Spirit and where the spirit of the Lord is there is freedom....This is solid proof that you cant restrict Jesus to the Son alone......

Now lets proceed with Romans 8:9 "You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ" But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life[d] because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of[e] his Spirit who lives in you."

He proceeds to state that IF CHRIST IS IN YOU ....Now who else says this JESUS. “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[c] in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you" Now Jesus says You know the Spirit for he lives with you....now the disciples had not yet received the Holy spirit and Yet Jesus says you know him because he lives with you but the Holy spirit had not yet come however he proceeds to state that he will be in you...something that happened in pentecost.. and to add on this Jesus says in verses 22 and 23

"Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them"

Now when Jesus came back this time as the spirit he did not reveal himself to the whole world as before rather the disciples knew that that is Jesus the book of acts 16:11-12 "Paul and his companions traveled throughout the region of Phrygia and Galatia, having been kept by the Holy Spirit from preaching the word in the province of Asia. 7 When they came to the border of Mysia, they tried to enter Bithynia, but the Spirit of Jesus would not allow them to. " and these are verses do not describe two spirits ....the book of Ephesians 4 and verses 4-6 "There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all." so no two spirits this is not heresy...its the word of God..this topic is longer than this reply if you have any questions and we will start from he beginning of everything

Franc254 · Oct 12, 2022

BTW Am not saying that Jesus is not the son he is but he is not restricted to the son he is also the spirit

kaylagrl · Oct 12, 2022

Saul-to-Paul said:

It's anti- Biblical not to believe it, there in black and white, that should settle it.

kaylagrl · Oct 12, 2022

Franc254 said:

Jesus is the Son, the spirit is the Holy Spirit, and the Father is God. God in three persons, trinity.

Franc254 · Oct 12, 2022

kaylagrl said:

read 2nd corinthians 3:16-18 after that read ephesians 4 :4-6

kaylagrl · Oct 12, 2022

Franc254 said:

Matthew 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit

John 10:30 I and the Father are one.”

1 Corinthians 8:6
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

Matthew 3:16-17
And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”

1 Peter 1:2
According to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.

Genesis 1:26
Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.

John 14:16-17
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.

John 15:26
“But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.

John 10:30-36
I and the Father are one.” The Jews picked up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?” The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.” Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? ...

John 14:10
Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works.

John 14:9-11
Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works. Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves.

John 8:58
Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

Titus 2:13
Waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

Just a handful, I could add more.

Franc254 · Oct 12, 2022

kaylagrl said:

okay we will start from the book of matthew 28:19 Go [c]therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit...now this was among the last instructions Jesus gave his disciples before he went to heaven...now lets see another instruction Jesus gave his disciples before he had departed from this world...We will begin from the book of Acts the 1st Chapter and verses 4 through to 7

"Once when he was eating with them, he commanded them, “Do not leave Jerusalem until the Father sends you the gift he promised, as I told you before. 5 John baptized with[b] water, but in just a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”
The Ascension of Jesus
6 So when the apostles were with Jesus, they kept asking him, “Lord, has the time come for you to free Israel and restore our kingdom?”

7 He replied, “The Father alone has the authority to set those dates and times, and they are not for you to know. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you. And you will be my witnesses, telling people about me everywhere—in Jerusalem, throughout Judea, in Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

Now it is important to know and understand that Jesus commands them...the word is command not to leave Jerusalem until the holy spirit promised had come to baptize them" now the disciples stayed and waited for the Holy spirit who was going to teach them everything John 14 and verses 26 "But when the Father sends the Advocate as my representative—that is, the Holy Spirit—he will teach you everything and will remind you of everything I have told you." And so the disciples did not leave Jerusalem they waited for the coming of the Holy spirit who was going to teach them everything concerning salvation. And he came in the day of pentecost and during his speech peter said something new something Jesus had not said in Matthew 28:19 . Acts 2 and verses 38 through to 41

"
Peter replied, “Each of you must repent of your sins and turn to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 This promise is to you, to your children, and to those far away[h]—all who have been called by the Lord our God.” 40 Then Peter continued preaching for a long time, strongly urging all his listeners, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation!”

41 Those who believed what Peter said were baptized and added to the church that day—about 3,000 in all."

Peter preached about the baptism in the name of Jesus and not what Jesus had said in matthew ...Now was this a complete disregard for what Jesus had said. No! remeber this book is called the acts of the apostles what they did was under the guidance of the Holy spirit even the ministry of baptism....without the teaching of the Holy spirit or had the disciples departed from jerusalem without waiting for the Holy spirit they wouldnt have received the spirit of God and thus their doctrine would have been different from christ's okay its either that or Peter preached a different gospel which we know he didnt....It was the Holy spirit who enabled him to know that the name of the Father, the son and the Holy Spirit reffer to Jesus....and thats why the lord has been called the spirit and the book of John 4:23-24 "But the time is coming—indeed it’s here now—when true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth. The Father is looking for those who will worship him that way. 24 For God is Spirit, so those who worship him must worship in spirit and in truth.” Highlight this words true worshippers will worship the Father...in truth and in spirit for the Father is looking for those who will worship him that way....so the father wants to be worshiped that way because? God is Spirit, so those who worship him must worship in spirit" and from the bible we have one spirit not two or more one....so unless the Holy spirit had taught them this then he wouldnt have baptized in the name of Jesus and paul also did just that and remember paul was not among those who were comissioned in matthew 28:19

CS1 · Oct 12, 2022

Franc254 said:

Wrong!

You oneness types LOL

First off baptized " in the name of Jesus " was not done because They did not know the name of God. The context of scripture is very important.

Jesus said to baptize IN the name of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, which means by the Authority of The Godhead you are to baptize. If you read the book of Acts and do NOT understand The events that happened were before Luke wrote them, you will Misinterpret the context.

Peter said HE would Baptize in the Name of Jesus Because HE was ordered NOT to preach in HIS name.

Acts 4:1-2

1 Now as they spoke to the people, the priests, the captain of the temple, and the Sadducees came upon them, 2 being greatly disturbed that they taught the people and preached in Jesus the resurrection from the dead.

5 And it came to pass, on the next day, that their rulers, elders, and scribes, 6 as well as Annas the high priest, Caiaphas, John, and Alexander, and as many as were of the family of the high priest, were gathered together at Jerusalem. 7 And when they had set them in the midst, they asked, “By what power or by what name have you done this?”

8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, “Rulers of the people and elders of Israel: 9If we this day are judged for a good deed done to a helpless man, by what means he has been made well, 10 let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. 11 This is the ‘stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.’ 12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

Noticed, please, you Oneness types, what Peter said

When it counted to tell how important it was to be BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF JESUS TO BE SAVED in front of all these Religious leaders Peter did not even say that. READ and WEEP.

18 So they called them and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus. 19 But Peter and John answered and said to them, “Whether it is right in the sight of God to listen to you more than to God, you judge. 20 For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.”

Peter was Baptized in Jesus' name as a public protest to those who commanded Peter NOT to Teach in that Name.

Baptism in the Name of Jesus of Nazareth or in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirt were both done and are both valid Because Peter was Led by the Spirit to do so and Jesus said to baptize by the authority of ALL.

kaylagrl · Oct 12, 2022

Franc254 said:

okay we will start from the book of matthew 28:19 Go [c]therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit...now this was among the last instructions Jesus gave his disciples before he went to heaven...now lets see another instruction Jesus gave his disciples before he had departed from this world...We will begin from the book of Acts the 1st Chapter and verses 4 through to 7

"Once when he was eating with them, he commanded them, “Do not leave Jerusalem until the Father sends you the gift he promised, as I told you before. 5 John baptized with[b] water, but in just a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”
The Ascension of Jesus
6 So when the apostles were with Jesus, they kept asking him, “Lord, has the time come for you to free Israel and restore our kingdom?”

7 He replied, “The Father alone has the authority to set those dates and times, and they are not for you to know. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you. And you will be my witnesses, telling people about me everywhere—in Jerusalem, throughout Judea, in Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

Now it is important to know and understand that Jesus commands them...the word is command not to leave Jerusalem until the holy spirit promised had come to baptize them" now the disciples stayed and waited for the Holy spirit who was going to teach them everything John 14 and verses 26 "But when the Father sends the Advocate as my representative—that is, the Holy Spirit—he will teach you everything and will remind you of everything I have told you." And so the disciples did not leave Jerusalem they waited for the coming of the Holy spirit who was going to teach them everything concerning salvation. And he came in the day of pentecost and during his speech peter said something new something Jesus had not said in Matthew 28:19 . Acts 2 and verses 38 through to 41

"
Peter replied, “Each of you must repent of your sins and turn to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 This promise is to you, to your children, and to those far away[h]—all who have been called by the Lord our God.” 40 Then Peter continued preaching for a long time, strongly urging all his listeners, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation!”

41 Those who believed what Peter said were baptized and added to the church that day—about 3,000 in all."

Peter preached about the baptism in the name of Jesus and not what Jesus had said in matthew ...Now was this a complete disregard for what Jesus had said. No! remeber this book is called the acts of the apostles what they did was under the guidance of the Holy spirit even the ministry of baptism....without the teaching of the Holy spirit or had the disciples departed from jerusalem without waiting for the Holy spirit they wouldnt have received the spirit of God and thus their doctrine would have been different from christ's okay its either that or Peter preached a different gospel which we know he didnt....It was the Holy spirit who enabled him to know that the name of the Father, the son and the Holy Spirit reffer to Jesus....and thats why the lord has been called the spirit and the book of John 4:23-24 "But the time is coming—indeed it’s here now—when true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth. The Father is looking for those who will worship him that way. 24 For God is Spirit, so those who worship him must worship in spirit and in truth.” Highlight this words true worshippers will worship the Father...in truth and in spirit for the Father is looking for those who will worship him that way....so the father wants to be worshiped that way because? God is Spirit, so those who worship him must worship in spirit" and from the bible we have one spirit not two or more one....so unless the Holy spirit had taught them this then he wouldnt have baptized in the name of Jesus and paul also did just that and remember paul was not among those who were comissioned in matthew 28:19

No, Jesus is not the Spirit, He is the Son. smh Gave you a dozen Scriptures to prove the trinity and you utterly ignore them. On this issue you are dead wrong.

The_Watchers_2017 · Oct 12, 2022

Franc254 said:

16 But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
17 Now the Lord is the Spirit and where the Ruach Adonai is, there is freedom.
18 But we all, with unveiled face beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory—just as from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

interesting. the Bible does indeed say the LORD is the Capital S-Spirit and Verse 17 tells us this Spirit is the Holy Spirit. and we know the Lord is Yeshua.

i will have to research this more.

The_Watchers_2017 · Oct 12, 2022

looking at the Oldest Greek texts we have from 3rd Century:

the same usage of Capital S - Spirit in the Greek for Paul's letter in 2nd Corinthians is the [[SAME]] when Matthew wrote in Chapter 12, Verses:
Jesus said in Verse 18 ((I will put my Spirit))
and
Jesus said in Verse 28 But if I by the ((Spirit of God))

+

17 Now the ((Lord is the Spirit))

all 3 examples of Capital S - Spirit are speaking of the SAME SPIRIT, Holy Spirit.

Franc254,
nice addition!
i've learned something today!

Franc254 · Oct 13, 2022

lets begin from where it all began...The book of psalms 2 and verse 6 through to 9
For the Lord declares, “I have placed my chosen king on the throne
in Jerusalem,[a] on my holy mountain.”

7 The king proclaims the Lord’s decree:
“The Lord said to me, ‘You are my son.[b]
Today I have become your Father.[c]
8 Only ask, and I will give you the nations as your inheritance,
the whole earth as your possession.
9 You will break[d] them with an iron rod
and smash them like clay pots.’”

The Lord says today i have become your father...the glory of the son is not preeminent this word shows that it has its beginning however not Jesus...Jesus existed since time immemorial however the the son has its beginnings and if you read the book of Luke youll get it

luke the 1st chapter and verses 34 though to 35

"
Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God."...that thing which was born was to be called the son of God...now John says And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.....now we beheld his glory as that of the begotten of the father....we did not see his actual form ....we saw the glory of a son...

Philipians 2:3-4 "Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, 4 not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others." First thing is humility...God saw that the world was plagued by sin and the only way he could save the world is if he came but not to come as the father or his in his glory but rather as the son....a slave this is humility
Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature[b] of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross! "

when Jesus to the nature of a servant that meant that hehad to go through the same process servants went through...pray, being persecuted eat...because he is a servant....he became the son a servant...however the son is not his true form and to understand this we go to the book of Revelations 19:15-16

"
Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.”[a] He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:

king of kings and lord of lords."

so this being is being described as the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords....who is this king of kings being....."

Revelations 17:12-14 he ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast. 13 They have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast. 14 They will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.” so upto that point we knw that the lamb is the king of Kings.. evenafter the new earth and new heaven have been created Jesus is still reffered to as the lamb not the son and this is not a coincidence....however this next chapter is what i have been basing my belief that Jesus is the father not restricted to the son alone.......

1ST TIMOTHY 6 :13-16
In the sight of God, who gives life to everything, and of Christ Jesus, who while testifying before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, I charge you 14 to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which God will bring about in his own time—God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen .."

now if you read verse 14 it seems as ifThere is Jesus and then there is God WHO WILL WILL REVEAL Jesus....however verse 15 says that God is the blessed and only ruler...the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords a title only used again in the book of revelations to describe the lamb who is also Jesus...who alone is immortal....the father cannot die although we know Jesus died the book of Hebrews 10 clarifies this
It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

5 Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:

“Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me;

This body could die, he was in the body of a servant, the son but that was not his original form

who no one has seen or can see....nobody has seen the true form of Jesus but one day they will see his true form this time not as the son but as the Father....This verse just tells me that Jesus takes the role of the father he is not restricted to the son alone because one day the son will be humbled under God but the lamb will reign supreme Revelations 22:3-4 "No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him. 4 They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads." not two thrones only one and they will worship him...and they will see his face...the true form Matthew 5:8
Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
so this is my basis of not limiting Jesus to only the son for refrence read 1st corinthians 15:27

Inquisitor · Oct 13, 2022

AndrewMorgan said:

Looks like one God (YHWH) in the Old Testament, and with the promise of a messiah. Israel is monotheistic by the way.

Then in the New Testament the messiah arrives and introduces us to His Father. Now we have God in two persons, one visible and one invisible. Yet they are one.

Jesus then introduces us also to the Holy Spirit.

Now we have one God in three distinct persons.

But for us, humanity, the big boss of everyone is Jesus Christ, our Lord and our Savior.

If you honor Jesus you honor the Father. If you know Jesus you know the Father. If you can see Jesus you have seen the Father.

Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the light that shines for evermore.

Everything you ever wanted to know about God is fully contained within Jesus Christ.

God is love. Jesus is God's love manifested in a single human form, the Word, the Logos.

When the apostles touched and spoke to Jesus, they were touching and speaking to God Himself!

Saul-to-Paul · Oct 13, 2022

kaylagrl said:

I don't argue with God's Word.

Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Saul-to-Paul · Oct 13, 2022

kaylagrl said:

Who's is the Spirit of the Lord? 🤣

Franc254 said:

Who do they think the Spirit of the Lord is?

CS1 · Oct 13, 2022

Saul-to-Paul said:

The Holy Spirit is pending on the context and how it is used in the text.

Saul-to-Paul · Oct 13, 2022

tourist said:

Again if the Lord is not the Holy Spirit the trinity god has 3 minds. The trinity clearly teaches one mind. The Bible disagrees.

Leviticus 24:12
And they put him in ward, that the mind of the Lord might be shewed them.

Romans 8:27
And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

hastrup · Oct 14, 2022

Saul-to-Paul said:

Yes
Text Trinity God has three minds. Or how better can we explain GENEIS 1:26
'let us make man' that's a conscious mind seeking the opinion of other minds.
No matter how we Twistered it the facts still remains that there is more to the trinity than we understand.
Who can tell me the person that breath into Adam's nostrils when he was formed out of the dust?
The father or the son?
Ok, you said the father and I believe you because the father did all the creations but Apostle John said we are wrong. Jesus gave the breath.
John 1: 3 and 4
' in Him was life. ' that same life the father gave Adam. Please explain how you think Jesus is different from the father.

riverhooks · Oct 15, 2022

Aussie52 said:

They are like me then . I am not like them .

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