Thief in the Night-- Pretrib or Second Coming?

[presidente]

Also notice the day of judgment is for all those on the whole earth, yet there is a hint of escape for some.

Care to give me a hint about the hint you are hinting about here...?

That quotes was attributed to me. Not my quote.

 

[presidente]

Care to give me a hint about the hint you are hinting about here...?

Oops, that's because I didn't delete someone else's quote at the end of my post, I think. I my bad.

 

[presidente]

Bro....we have been thru this dozens and dozens and dozens of times.

That is NOT what Paul said. It is that nothing more than that voice in your head caused by massive amounts of faulty programming.....

Here.......let me post that verse again for you.

2 Thes 2:1-2
Now we implore you, brothers, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together unto Him, for you not quickly to be shaken in mind, nor to be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as if by us, as that day of the Lord is present.

NASB Lexicon
NASB ©GreekStrong'sOrigin
Nowδὲ
(de)1161: but, and, now, (a connective or adversative particle)a prim. word
we requestἘρωτῶμεν
(erōtōmen)2065: to ask, questionakin to eromai (to ask)
you, brethren,ἀδελφοί
(adelphoi)80: a brotherfrom alpha (as a cop. prefix) and delphus (womb)
with regardὑπὲρ
(uper)5228: over, beyond, fig. on behalf of, for the sake of, concerninga prim. preposition
to the comingπαρουσίας
(parousias)3952: a presence, a comingfrom the pres. part. of pareimi
of our Lordκυρίου
(kuriou)2962: lord, masterfrom kuros (authority)
JesusἸησοῦ
(iēsou)2424: Jesus or Joshua, the name of the Messiah, also three other Isr.of Hebrew origin Yehoshua
ChristΧριστοῦ
(christou)5547: the Anointed One, Messiah, Christfrom chrió
and our gathering togetherἐπισυναγωγῆς
(episunagōgēs)1997: a gathering together, an assemblyfrom episunagó
to Him,

NASB Lexicon
NASB ©GreekStrong'sOrigin
that you not be quicklyταχέως
(tacheōs)5030: quickly, hastilyadverb from tachus
shakenσαλευθῆναι
(saleuthēnai)4531: to agitate, shake, by ext. to cast downfrom salos
from your composureνοὸς
(noos)3563: mind, understanding, reasoncontr. of a prim. word noos (mind)
orμηδὲ
(mēde)3366: but not, and notfrom mé and de
be disturbedθροεῖσθαι
(throeisthai)2360: to be troubledfrom throos (a noise, tumult)
eitherμήτε
(mēte)3383: neither, norfrom mé and te
by a spiritπνεύματος
(pneumatos)4151: wind, spiritfrom pneó
orμήτε
(mēte)3383: neither, norfrom mé and te
a messageλόγου
(logou)3056: a word (as embodying an idea), a statement, a speechfrom legó
orμήτε
(mēte)3383: neither, norfrom mé and te
a letterἐπιστολῆς
(epistolēs)1992: an epistle, a letterfrom epistelló
as ifὡς
(ōs)5613: as, like as, even as, when, since, as long asadverb from hos,
from us, to the effectὡς
(ōs)5613: as, like as, even as, when, since, as long asadverb from hos,
that the dayἡμέρα
(ēmera)2250: daya prim. word
of the Lordκυρίου
(kuriou)2962: lord, masterfrom kuros (authority)
has come.ἐνέστηκεν
(enestēken)1764: to place in, to be at hand, perf. part. to be present

Wrong passage. I was talking about II Timothy 2.

 

[cv5]

Wrong passage. I was talking about II Timothy 2.

OK bro. Got it.

The thing is.....these verses lend further credence to the IMPLICATION of 2 Thes 2, where there also the Thessalonians MAY have thought that they had missed the rapture, and DEFINITELY thought that they were in the DOTL aka the 70th week of Daniel. At any rate, good pre-trib rapture passages for sure. I will be sure to keep these in my pre-trib passages arsenal.

2Ti 2:16
But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

2Ti 2:17
And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

2Ti 2:18
Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

 

[cv5]

2 Thes 2 vs 2 Tim 2
We think that we are in the DOTL vs we think we missed the rapture/resurrection.

Interesting. Very very interesting.......

 

[GaryA]

Also notice the day of judgment is for all those on the whole earth, yet there is a hint of escape for some.

Care to give me a hint about the hint you are hinting about here...?

That quotes was attributed to me. Not my quote.

Oops, that's because I didn't delete someone else's quote at the end of my post, I think. I my bad.

Okay, now I see what happened...

I was in somewhat of a hurry trying to get "caught up" with the thread and overlooked it.

Let me correct it:

Also notice the day of judgment is for all those on the whole earth, yet there is a hint of escape for some.

Hey Clayman - what 'hint' are you talking about...?

 

[GaryA]

Thanks. CC members learn something new every day. Well.....SOME do.

If TDW really is your mentor - when are going to adopt his [general] disposition and loose the blatent show of pride/arrogance/smugness?

Just wondering...

It is probably the best thing you could learn from him that would help you the most and do you the most good.

(not kidding)

Seriously, brother - you need to chill the attitude a bit...

 

[cv5]

If TDW really is your mentor - when are going to adopt his [general] disposition and loose the blatent show of pride/arrogance/smugness?

Just wondering...

It is probably the best thing you could learn from him that would help you the most and do you the most good.

(not kidding)

Does dry humor and a sharp wit find no welcome with you? Tragic but OK bro and thanks for the feedback.

You must have at least chuckled a little at that "Schrodingers cat" quip. I thought it was hilarious.

 

[cv5]

No. Read the book. Look up the 'first resurrection' in Revelation 20.

How you do you get that out of what I posted?

What I object to is saying there is a resurrection that is not specified in the Bible and that some of the resurrection verses, but not others, refer to this extra resurrection.

A little color....

Heb 12:22
But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

 

[presidente]

OK bro. Got it.
l. At any rate, good pre-trib rapture passages for sure. I will be sure to keep these in my pre-trib passages arsenal.

2Ti 2:16
But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

2Ti 2:17
And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

2Ti 2:18
Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

If a vain babblings verse describes pre-trib, why be pre-trib?

 

[GaryA]

Does dry humor and a sharp wit find no welcome with you? Tragic but OK bro and thanks for the feedback.

Well... Sorry brother, but your dry humor seems a bit damp and your sharp wit seems a little dull.

And, most of the time, it seems like I mentioned.

Your intent seems less-than-innocent most of the time. You sometimes seem to be "all about" insulting people while "lifting yourself up"...

This may just be the way it comes across; however, do understand that - this is the way it comes across.

You must have at least chuckled a little at that "Schrodingers cat" quip. I thought it was hilarious.

I remember seeing it. But, I was skimming through the thread trying to get "caught up" with the thread and blew past it.

So, suffice it to say, I am not referring to everything you say - just a good bit of it - enough to be a bit of a "turn-off" when reading your posts.

I will give you this much - no one has caught on to my [subtle] "caught up" statement-with-built-in-humor yet...

(in post #766, and in this one - haha - did you notice it? pretty subtle, huh?)

So - yeah - I know what you mean there. If you say something funny, that will be the part that everyone will miss.

I am not against you, brother. You just seem to be "riding high" on a wave of egotism. (in this thread)

I generally tend to look past other people's nonsense of this kind in these situations and stick to the point of the thread topic.

I also know that I have come across to someone else on here in a way that I absolutely knew was not my real attitude/intention.

So - that is part of the reason I am saying all of this. (for your possible benefit)

If it happens, I try to resolve it by attempting to understand exactly what transpired such that the wrong idea "got across" to someone else.

Maybe you can do something similar.

I am a forgive-and-forget kind of guy.

My intent here is 'admonishment' and not 'insult'.

At the very least, you should be aware of how you are coming across.

 

[presidente]

A little color....

Heb 12:22
But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

How is this pre-trib? At the end of the thousand years in Revelation, the new Jerusalem descends out of heaven like a bride adorned for her Husband.

 

[cv5]

How is this pre-trib? At the end of the thousand years in Revelation, the new Jerusalem descends out of heaven like a bride adorned for her Husband.

Sorry bro. I think it was meant for FG2. As a foil to his "no Christian gets to heaven" theory. Nothing pertaining to the pre-trib line of thought.

Busy here so I am throwing down Scriptures as I work.

 

[cv5]

Well... Sorry brother, but your dry humor seems a bit damp and your sharp wit seems a little dull.

And, most of the time, it seems like I mentioned.

Your intent seems less-than-innocent most of the time. You sometimes seem to be "all about" insulting people while "lifting yourself up"...

This may just be the way it comes across; however, do understand that - this is the way it comes across.


I remember seeing it. But, I was skimming through the thread trying to get "caught up" with the thread and blew past it.

So, suffice it to say, I am not referring to everything you say - just a good bit of it - enough to be a bit of a "turn-off" when reading your posts.

I will give you this much - no one has caught on to my [subtle] "caught up" statement-with-built-in-humor yet...

(in post #766, and in this one - haha - did you notice it? pretty subtle, huh?)

So - yeah - I know what you mean there. If you say something funny, that will be the part that everyone will miss.

I am not against you, brother. You just seem to be "riding high" on a wave of egotism. (in this thread)

I generally tend to look past other people's nonsense of this kind in these situations and stick to the point of the thread topic.

I also know that I have come across to someone else on here in a way that I absolutely knew was not my real attitude/intention.

So - that is part of the reason I am saying all of this. (for your possible benefit)

If it happens, I try to resolve it by attempting to understand exactly what transpired such that the wrong idea "got across" to someone else.

Maybe you can do something similar.

I am a forgive-and-forget kind of guy.

My intent here is 'admonishment' and not 'insult'.

At the very least, you should be aware of how you are coming across.

OK bro. Thanks for the long-winded lecture. Do have ambitions to be an elder at your Church?

Anyways......I am a free agent bro.

“For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win the more … ” (1 Corinthians 9:19)

 

[GaryA]

OK bro. Thanks for the long-winded lecture. Do have ambitions to be an elder at your Church?

Now, that is funny...

 

[cv5]

Now, that is funny...

A little story for you:
I know you say you are a "historicist", but at any rate, I attended a full-blown preterist "Church" a few times a long long time ago.
I figured out pretty quickly that it was a cult. Guilt-tripping, psychological beat downs, control freaks. You know the story. As for the Bible they were quite literally 100% wrong 100% of the time. As far as I could tell, they were all pretty much going to hell in a handbasket.

Anyways....have a nice evening "not an elder" guy.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

It is interesting how the pre-tribbers think MOST of "the church" is still on earth, awating this "rapture" and trip to heaven.

That's not at all the case of what we think.

"The dead in Christ" (who will be resurrected ['to stand again'] prior to the "snatch") makes up the majority ['MOST'] (some 2000-yrs' worth of believers), whereas the "we which are ALIVE and remain unto" that point ("still-living" at the time of the "snatch") are fewer in number.

I have no idea why you would come up with the idea that we "pre-tribbers" think "MOST" of the Church which is His body is "still on earth awaiting the "snatch / rapture" [IN THE AIR, by the way]. That's simply a made-up notion you incorrectly perceive of what we "think"... not actually the case.




The dead in Christ (after they are resurrected / to stand again) WILL actually be a part of the "snatch" in that sense... and it is AFTER that point (Paul says, "IN THAT DAY") that they and we will experience the "BEMA" seat, for reward ("crowns" will be awarded IN THAT DAY--not the day an individual believer DIES)

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Here is what else I found:

"the resurrection"

ESV = 144 times
Berean Study Bible = 137
NKJV = 183

"a resurrection"

ESV = 22
NIV = 19NKJV = 25

So you have no point. The Bible screams just 1 resurrecction for the saved and 1 for the unsaved, and that is very clear from Rev 20:4-6.

Not the least bit convincing; because the differing translations are often not reflective of where the "definite article" ('the') is or isn't used in the Greek.

And again, there is no "article" ('a') in Greek. (It is supplied by translators.)





The supposed point of yours here, is not at all persuasive to the point of changing what it is that 1Cor15:22b-23 is saying,

"[as...]... so IN CHRIST shall [future tense] all be made alive. BUT each [a word meaning 'of more than two'] in the own ORDER / RANK: firstfruit Christ, EPieta [only then] they who ARE Christ's in the coming of Him"

BOTH of these are "FUTURE"--the first mentioned is not Christ Himself (alone)... that was back in v.20 (about the "past" event, in 32ad), now Paul is speaking of "FUTURE" things as having an "ORDER / RANK"... and they are "IN THE OWN ORDER / RANK," rather than that there remains ONLY ONE at ONE POINT IN TIME).




Said of those who will have been the LAST saints to have been martyred / killed (that is, they will be killed and die IN the second half of the future trib yrs), they will "live again" (i.e. be resurrected ['to stand again' on the earth] and reign with Christ 1000 yrs... "BLESSED and holy is the one having A PART IN the resurrection the first [adjective]..." which phrase is not saying, "this is the first time anyone will have been resurrected" (as much as you want it to be saying that).





[Additionally, I know of no passage that informs us that Jesus Himself is "IN CHRIST," rather other people / believers are; There's "God was IN Christ reconciling..." but not passage that states, "JESUS HIMSELF is IN CHRIST..." or "Christ was IN CHRIST..." or the like]

 

[cv5]

(in post #766, and in this one - haha - did you notice it? pretty subtle, huh?)

I just read it bro. Definitely some lighthearted humor there. Thanks buddy.

 

[FreeGrace2]

cv5 said:
OK bro. Got it.
l. At any rate, good pre-trib rapture passages for sure. I will be sure to keep these in my pre-trib passages arsenal.

2Ti 2:16
But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

2Ti 2:17
And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

2Ti 2:18
Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

If a vain babblings verse describes pre-trib, why be pre-trib?

Because there are NO verses that describe Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven, they see EVERY verse as pre-trib.

Kind of an over compensation for their lack of evidence.