Is faith a work?

[Mem]

That would bring up the verse that teaches: What is not possible with man is possible for God.

Mark 10:26 And they were astonished exceedingly, saying unto him, Then who can be saved?
Mark 10:27 Jesus looking upon them says, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for all things are possible with God.

Remember faith/believing is a gift of God.

Eph 2:8 for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

This is why, more times than not, the Greek verb for "believing" will be in the subjunctive mood.

Paul, who wrote Ephesians 2:8, said in 1Timothy 2
...I urge that petitions, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgiving be offered for everyone—
This is good and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4who wants everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Yet, it is claimed that God mustn't want those that aren't saved to believe in Him, since faith is required, and He doesn't give it to them.

 

[awelight]

Faith is Trusting .. Faith is trusting God.. I can have personal difficulties with some of Gods teachings in the Bible.. BUT!!! if i trust in Gods wisdom, then i will accept Gods revealed will no matter if i do not understand why God has made a particular teaching or has done something..

The basic point i am making is you don't have to be convinced that each and every teaching of God is perfect, if one has Faith ( Trust ) that Gods decision on the matter is perfect.. Which is it..

There is a difference between trusting what God says is true and trustworthy and being personally convicted of that truth. As believers we often err or do not practice a commandment because we are not yet convicted of it's truth. We may see it in Scripture but fail to understand it. Without proper understanding, one cannot be convicted of it. This is why we must pray unceasingly to be granted understanding. From understanding comes wisdom.

Col 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray and make request for you, that ye may be filled with the knowledge of his will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding,
Col 1:10 to walk worthily of the Lord unto all pleasing, bearing fruit in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;

Heb 11:1 Now faith is assurance of things hoped for, a conviction of things not seen.

 

[awelight]

Paul, who wrote Ephesians 2:8, said in 1Timothy 2
...I urge that petitions, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgiving be offered for everyone—
This is good and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4who wants everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Yet, it is claimed that God mustn't want those that aren't saved to believe in Him, since faith is required, and He doesn't give it to them.

The verse in 1 Timothy 2:4, is often misunderstood. If it were God's active will to have all men saved, then all men will be saved. This view is contrary to Scripture teaching because we know that all men will not be saved.

The word "all" in the Scriptures, as in our own language usage, can have many meanings. In this verse, according to the context of verses 1 and 2, means "all manner of" men. From Kings and rulers to the homeless person. Many will argue against this view but it is the only one that will harmonize with the rest of Scripture teaching.

The old writer, John Gill had this to say:

Who will have all men to be saved,....the will of God, the sovereign and unfrustrable will of God, has the governing sway and influence in the salvation of men; it rises from it, and is according to it; and all who are saved God wills they should be saved; nor are any saved, but whom he wills they should be saved: hence by all men, whom God would have saved, cannot be meant every individual of mankind, since it is not his will that all men, in this large sense, should be saved, unless there are two contrary wills in God; for there are some who were before ordained by him unto condemnation, and are vessels of wrath fitted for destruction; and it is his will concerning some, that they should believe a lie, that they all might be damned; nor is it fact that all are saved, as they would be, if it was his will they should; for who hath resisted his will? but there is a world of ungodly men that will be condemned, and who will go into everlasting punishment: rather therefore all sorts of men, agreeably to the use of the phrase in 1Ti_2:1 are here intended, kings and peasants, rich and poor, bond and free, male and female, young and old, greater and lesser sinners; and therefore all are to be prayed for, even all sorts of men, because God will have all men, or all sorts of men, saved

 

[Runningman]

The real question here in this OP - is this...

Why did you pose a question about something, to which you are obviously already decided? You ask questions then dispute the answers because they do not meet your narrative. Why act like you do not understand something, when your mind is already made up?

Not all answers are created equally. I’m more like a filter, not a pump. I don’t dispute what the verses plainly say, but I may dispute what people think they say. That being said, I haven’t conclusively made my mind up that faith is a work of self-effort, but the evidence to the contrary seems a bit lacking.

The problem I see is that if faith isn’t something we can gain by self-effort then faith is not something we can produce. Therefore, faith must be a gift of God. However, I can’t find a verse that faith is a gift of God.

If saving faith is a gift of God afterall, then I’m at a loss for words. That would lead me to conclude God chooses who He wants to save and who will not be saved. Meanwhile, it’s God’s will that none should perish, but that all come to repentance. That’s why I have been leaning more in favor of faith being a work, trying to steer wide away from a Calvinist perspective.

 

[Runningman]

John 6:28 the word for works (of God) in the Greek is N-ANP, Noun-Accusative Neuter Plural, where the Accusative case marks the direct object of the verb, i.e. work the works. As explained in Thayer's Greek Lexicon, Strong's NT John 6:28 citation: the works required and approved by God.
John 6:29 work (of God) in the Greek is N-NNS, Noun-Nominative Neuter Singular, where the Nominative case is the subject of a verb, namely "is" here. That is, This, that ye believe... is the work of God.

Is Jesus clarifying there is only one work that is left for us to do, to believe or is He saying God does that work?
There's no citation for John 6:29 in the Thayer's help for this "work."

However, if we look at the word for "believe" in 6:29, the Morphology is explained as V-PSA-2P, Verb- Present Subjunctive Active- 2nd Person Plural, where the Subjunctive case of a verb is used after certain expressions that contain an order or a request or wish, and the active voice is used when the subject of the verb performs the action named, which is "believe" in this instance.

After, idk taking 2 hrs?! to formulate that word study that I posted, it take one joke to almost make me think it was all a waste of time and then I shook off that thought and chose? to believe it was not in vain (and He confirmed, and is pleased) that I searched and found out those truths in grammar that gave me a clear understanding of God's order, request, wish is that we believe in His Son, and obliquing Him this request is what pleases Him. And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who approaches Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him. Hebrews 11:6

Very interesting give me some time to sort through your finely-crafter answer. I know you spent a lot of time researching on this and I think it's useful. I'll definitely give it my attention.

 

[DavidTree]

You know David - I used to enjoy some of your posts but this is the third time, that I am aware of, where you have made a comment like this:

"The LORD is also referring to something else which no one here can SEE - yet"

Like a little kid with a hidden secret. You can't see it but I can. I know something you don't know. Ha. Ha Ha.

I admonish you brother, this shows pride and boastful character. It in no way follows the mandate of our Lord. To love and edify one another. I hope you give thought to this.

The LORD said: "“I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. " - John 16:12

The LORD also says:
It is the glory of God to conceal a matter,
But the glory of kings is to search out a matter.
Proverbs 25:2

Peace

 

[Ted01]

Not all answers are created equally. I’m more like a filter, not a pump. I don’t dispute what the verses plainly say, but I may dispute what people think they say. That being said, I haven’t conclusively made my mind up that faith is a work of self-effort, but the evidence to the contrary seems a bit lacking.

The problem I see is that if faith isn’t something we can gain by self-effort then faith is not something we can produce. Therefore, faith must be a gift of God. However, I can’t find a verse that faith is a gift of God.

If saving faith is a gift of God afterall, then I’m at a loss for words. That would lead me to conclude God chooses who He wants to save and who will not be saved. Meanwhile, it’s God’s will that none should perish, but that all come to repentance. That’s why I have been leaning more in favor of faith being a work, trying to steer wide away from a Calvinist perspective.

Eph. 2:8 (ESV) For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

 

[Runningman]

Eph. 2:8 (ESV) For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

In this passage what is the gift? Is the being saved part a gift or is faith a gift?

Verses like John 4:10, Romans 5:15, Romans 6:23, and some others say the gift of God is salvation, but I don't really see anything clearly stating faith is a gift.

 

[oyster67]

I agree, but who is doing the believing part for us? Are we believing because that’s our desire to do so or because God is making us believe?

We must believe. It must be our desire to do so. We must make the choice.

Joshua 24:15
“And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.”

 

[Ted01]

In this passage what is the gift? Is the being saved part a gift or is faith a gift?

Verses like John 4:10, Romans 5:15, Romans 6:23, and some others say the gift of God is salvation, but I don't really see anything clearly stating faith is a gift.

What do you make of this?

Heb. 12:2 (KJV) Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

 

[Mem]

In this passage what is the gift? Is the being saved part a gift or is faith a gift?

Verses like John 4:10, Romans 5:15, Romans 6:23, and some others say the gift of God is salvation, but I don't really see anything clearly stating faith is a gift.

It is painfully obvious that Christiankind needs to get our chitchat together. And learning good grammar skills would be a fitting start for better communication of right ideas. In this case, In Eph 2:8, "This" is used as either an adjective, a definite article, a pronoun, or an adverb but all refer to something just mentioned, or the reader already knows. The subject of the previous sentence, which is "you are saved" bookended with the prepositional phrases "by grace" and "through, faith," is you and the verb is 'are' with the predicate(?) saved, so it looks like "this" is used as a definite article since is not referring back to "you" the noun, nor describing being saved as already done by the prepositional phrases in the previous sentence.

 

[studentoftheword]

Thread Topic
Is faith a work?

NO --faith is not a work-----Faith is a gift from God ------true faith is a process of us ending our works in the flesh ------Faith receives what is already made available to us ---

Faith is a work of Jesus not us ------we welcome it --we accept it -----we just receive it as we read the Word ---and the Word is Jesus ----the word who is Jesus inbirths the Faith which we just receive ---accept or welcome in us as we read His word ---

Strong's Concordance
dechomai: to receive

Definition: to receive
Usage: I take, receive, accept, welcome.


Here is the Thing -----We must First be Drawn by God who opens our Heart to receive the Word of Faith ----we cannot nor do we get faith by ourselves ------our heart has to be unhardened by God first -----only then can Faith enter -----

The Faith we have at birth is Human faith and that is a gift from God also -----but this Faith will not Save you -----but you did no works to get it ----it was instilled in you by God Himself

 

[Runningman]

What do you make of this?

Heb. 12:2 (KJV) Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

I’ve seen that verse translated a few ways: author, pioneer, captain, prince, the chief leader.

The way I understand it is that Jesus is the author of our faith in the sense He has dictated what the contents of our faith should be. He has told us exactly what to have faith in and there are specific things.

Without reading the Bible or hearing the gospel, people won’t just intuitively know or be gifted with what to have faith in.

Jesus pioneered and finished what our faith is in with His life, death, and resurrection.

“Make every effort to enter through the narrow gate…” and faith in Jesus is that narrow gate.

 

[Runningman]

Thread Topic
Is faith a work?

NO --faith is not a work-----Faith is a gift from God ------true faith is a process of us ending our works in the flesh ------Faith receives what is already made available to us ---

Faith isn’t a work of the flesh or Jesus wouldn’t have required it.

Faith is a work of Jesus not us ------we welcome it --we accept it -----we just receive it as we read the Word ---and the Word is Jesus ----the word who is Jesus inbirths the Faith which we just receive ---accept or welcome in us as we read His word ---

Does having faith require any convincing, logical deduction, or reasoning? People need the gospel preached to them to make a choice.

Romans 10:14,15
14How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

This whole process requires mental and/or physical exertion.

Strong's Concordance
dechomai: to receive

Definition: to receive
Usage: I take, receive, accept, welcome.


Here is the Thing -----We must First be Drawn by God who opens our Heart to receive the Word of Faith ----we cannot nor do we get faith by ourselves ------our heart has to be unhardened by God first -----only then can Faith enter -----

The Faith we have at birth is Human faith and that is a gift from God also -----but this Faith will not Save you -----but you did no works to get it ----it was instilled in you by God Himself

I’ve welcomed many messages, but I didn’t believe them all. The same is true for all of us. I think we shouldn’t try to separate the gospel from our freewill since God wants everyone to believe the gospel, yet some people reject it. God often requires a leap of faith into what was previously unknown. Think about this from the perspective of when you weren’t a believer. How did you conclude Jesus is the truth as opposed to Islam or something else? See, there’s a choice here.

 

[oyster67]

God often requires a leap of faith into what was previously unknown.

Yes. A step, at least.
It consists of something hoped for (not fully in our grasp at the moment) and not seen.

How did you conclude Jesus is the truth as opposed to Islam or something else?

That does cause me to ponder what it would be like to be raised in a Muslim family. Would I have attempted to draw near to Allah? (Obviously that would not have been successful.)

Hebrews 11:6
“But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.”

Allah of the Muslim's is not there to reward our seeking like our Lord is.

Proverbs 7:15
“Therefore came I forth to meet thee, diligently to seek thy face, and I have found thee.”

We are so fortunate to have a God that desires to be found!

Revelation 3:20
“Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.”

 

[Mem]

Faith isn’t a work of the flesh or Jesus wouldn’t have required it.

Ah so! a work of the mind, hence, the entire meaning of metanoia, or changing ones' mind, thinking again, i.e., repenting!

 

[DavidTree]

The scriptures establish a barrier between Works and Faith..

Human beings can come up with a definition of Works but if that includes Faith then it is Not a Biblical definition of Works.. Have Faith in the Word of God and trust in the definition of scriptures..

Maybe you want to reexamine what you said here in the Light of Scripture: James 2:18

But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

Dwell on this: According to the WORD that became Flesh = Faith and works are inseperable.

Peace

 

[Runningman]

That does cause me to ponder what it would be like to be raised in a Muslim family. Would I have attempted to draw near to Allah? (Obviously that would not have been successful.)

More than likely you wouldn't have known any better. It just would have been a part of your family's religion and maybe culture too.

Muslims believe Jesus was particularly blameless, though there is no straightforward verse that says "Jesus never sinned." He was described as pure and able to bear witness against His people; sinners can't judge people, but Jesus can. That being said, Muslims believe only their god is sinless. What they don't realize, that if Jesus is sinless and only their god is sinless then that person is in equal standing to their god in terms of righteousness.

Thus, Jesus is God and we as Christians know that, but it might only take a gentle nudge to get a Muslim to realize that the Quran actually does teach that Jesus is perfect without succinctly saying so.

 

[Runningman]

Ah so! a work of the mind, hence, the entire meaning of metanoia, or changing ones' mind, thinking again, i.e., repenting!

Exactly, atleast that's how it makes sense to me.

Paul said this:

Romans 10:9,10
9that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For with your heart you believe and are justified, and with your mouth you confess and are saved.

People may say, "Oh but confessing with your mouth is a work of the flesh." It's actually a lot more spiritual than that. Jesus said this:

Luke 6:45
45The good man brings good things out of the good treasure of his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil treasure of his heart. For out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks.

 

[ZNP]

Dear brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ of Nazareth, our Lord and Savior,...
Can someone explain this to me? Thank you.

Why do you stop with Ephesians 2:8-9, what about verse 10?

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We were created in Christ Jesus unto good works. That was our salvation. Being created in Christ Jesus unto good works is our salvation. That was by faith, not based on any work we did but based on the work of redemption that Jesus did on the cross.

However, the works that God has ordained that we should walk in them will lead others to believe in the Son. Why? Your faith in the Son will call to others to also have faith in the Son.

God will judge according to every man's work (1Peter 1:17). This judgement is not about salvation, it is about reward.

Your works are what the Gentiles see and that is what causes them to glorify God (1Peter 2:12)

Therefore James teaches us how to have a perfect work (James 1:4)

Both James and Paul look at Abraham to make the conclusions they make. Abraham believed God and it was reckoned unto him as righteousness, that is what Paul saw, and we know it was reckoned unto Abraham because sure enough Sarah had Isaac.

However, James looks at Abraham when he was obedient to sacrifice his son and says what good is faith without works, can faith save him? Then he says that faith without works is dead. Isaac is a type of Christ, He is the child of promise, but if Isaac is not offered up then he abides alone. This is what the Lord said when He said a grain of wheat abides alone unless it dies, but if it dies it bears much fruit. There is no point to Jesus coming as this miraculous grain of wheat if He isn't also buried so that He could bear much fruit.

Consider Oskar Schindler, one day he sees what the Germans are doing to the Jews in the ghetto and he knows it is wrong. Surely others in Germany also saw and also knew it was wrong. However, they did nothing. They believed it was wrong but that believing was dead because there was no work. However, Schindler then began a work to save Jews alive. Today Schindler, a non Jew, is buried in a special cemetery for the righteous not because he felt the holocaust was wrong, but because he did something about it to save a few thousand Jews alive.