Is faith a work?

[Wansvic]

Dear brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ of Nazareth, our Lord and Savior,

Please read this OP before answering.

Serious question looking for some answers. Thought maybe I could find some here. I want to post two scriptures and see what people conclude. I’ll post the KJV.

My question is this: is faith in Christ a work?

John 6:28,29 KJV
28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Ephesians 2:8,9 KJV
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

If I understand correctly, Jesus is saying that the work God wants us to do to have salvation of our soul is to believe on His Son Jesus Christ.

However, Paul says that we are given a gift of being saved because of our faith and that it has nothing to do with our works or self-effort.

Can someone explain this to me? Thank you.

Saved through faith means believing the entire gospel message and submitting to it. (Acts 2:38-39) This reveals one's faith in Jesus and what He said to be true. (Acts 1:2) It is God who brings about the spiritual reality. This truth parallels what is stated in James 2:20-22:

"But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?"

 

[Ted01]

Still, Abraham was declared Righteous by God many, many years before taking Isaac up to sacrifice him.

 

[SomeDisciple]

I don't think faith is a work, any more than accepting a gift is work. God just says "here you go" and it's yours, and you're saved unless you throw it in the garbage.

At what point does this just become a semantic game?

"Oh, it's not MY faith! God GIFTED it to me! OH, AND I DIDN'T ACCEPT THE GIFT EITHER, BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING I DID! A WORK!!! No, no, no, it was ALL GOD!!! "Recieve the holy ghost"!?!?! "believe on Jesus"?!?!? oh, no, those are all verbs... uh... GOD DID IT FOR ME!!!"

Seriously?

Faith is faith. Salvation by works would be if you thought you did something that made it so God "owed" it to you. He doesn't owe you, he just gives it to you.

He said, Come to Me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me; for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.” Believing is taking up the yoke upon you, and there is REST in putting on the yoke, it's not "works".

 

[Ted01]

Jn. 6:29 (ESV) Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

 

[Pray_without_ceasing]

Still, Abraham was declared Righteous by God many, many years before taking Isaac up to sacrifice him.

Nay, friend. For God calleth those things which be not as though they were. The scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar. Because faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect.

Thou dost err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. You would be wise to not utter falsehoods like your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

Repent.

 

[Ted01]

Nay, friend. For God calleth those things which be not as though they were. The scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar. Because faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect.

Thou dost err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. You would be wise to not utter falsehoods like your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

Repent.

I disagree whole hardily... and I think that it is yourself that's confused about Scripture.


Genesis 15

King James Version


15 After these things the word of the Lord came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.
2 And Abram said, Lord God, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?
3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.
4 And, behold, the word of the Lord came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
6 And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness.


See, in this portion, God accounts Abraham righteous well before Isaac was born.
The mistake is yours, brother.

 

[Pray_without_ceasing]

I disagree whole hardily... and I think that it is yourself that's confused about Scripture.


Genesis 15

King James Version


15 After these things the word of the Lord came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.
2 And Abram said, Lord God, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?
3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.
4 And, behold, the word of the Lord came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
6 And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness.


See, in this portion, God accounts Abraham righteous well before Isaac was born.
The mistake is yours, brother.

I am fully aware that you disagree with the Word of God, sir. For whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. He that is of God heareth God’s words: thou therefore hear them not, because thou art not of God. The fact that you disagree with God's Word is wholly irrelevant to me, sir. Let God be true, but every man a liar, saith the scripture. Furthmore, you are not my brother. If you were, then we would be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. Thou art of thy father the devil, and the lusts of thy father thou wilt do.

Fill thou up then the measure of thy fathers.

 

[Runningman]

Jn. 6:29 (ESV) Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

Notice it isn’t God’s work for Himself, He doesn’t need to work to believe in Jesus. Rather, this is assigned work as evidenced by the context.

John 6:28,30
28Then they inquired, “What must we do to perform the works of God?”
29Jesus replied, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.”
30So they asked Him, “What sign then will You perform, so that we may see it and believe You? What will You do?

 

[Ted01]

Notice it isn’t God’s work for Himself, He doesn’t need to work to believe in Jesus. Rather, this is assigned work as evidenced by the context.

John 6:28,30
28Then they inquired, “What must we do to perform the works of God?”
29Jesus replied, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.”
30So they asked Him, “What sign then will You perform, so that we may see it and believe You? What will You do?

Not sure that I understand what you're communicating? "it isn't God's work for Himself"?

As I see it, the people ask Jesus what must we do to perform the works of God.

This question was brought up because Jesus told them that they were following him
because he had just fed them (the 500) and then told them not to work for food that parishes
but rather for food that is eternal.

So Jesus answers, Believe on the one He has sent (me/himself).

They ask basically, how do we know that you are the one sent by God?

Then Jesus explains about the Bread of Life... again Himself.

But you seem to see something different?

 

[Runningman]

Not sure that I understand what you're communicating? "it isn't God's work for Himself"?

As I see it, the people ask Jesus what must we do to perform the works of God.

This question was brought up because Jesus told them that they were following him
because he had just fed them (the 500) and then told them not to work for food that parishes
but rather for food that is eternal.

So Jesus answers, Believe on the one He has sent (me/himself).

They ask basically, how do we know that you are the one sent by God?

Then Jesus explains about the Bread of Life... again Himself.

But you seem to see something different?

What I see is that Jesus compared Himself to the mana that Israel received from heaven. They actually had to go out, collect it, refine it, cook it, etc. They didn't simply receive ready-to-eat bread, there was work involved. If they didn't work for the manna that was given to them, they would have starved to death.

Numbers 11:7,8
7Now the manna resembled coriander seed, and its appearance was like that of gum resin. 8The people walked around and gathered it, ground it on a handmill or crushed it in a mortar, then boiled it in a cooking pot or shaped it into cakes. It tasted like pastry baked with fine oil.

Jesus said that He is the bread from heaven. I think it's a question of how accurate is the comparison between the situation Israel was in in the desert and the situation the people are in in the world and it must be 100% accurate. God provided Jesus and people must come to Him like they must come to the manna He provided to Israel.

John 6:32-36
32Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. 33For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. 34Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
35And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. 36But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.

It wasn't a matter of simply seeing Jesus and the miracles He did. While effective for many, it didn't work for all. The pretense of Jesus is imploring them that the work they need to do to access Jesus the bread from heaven is to believe in Him. To me that means faith is God's work for us to do. Faith is something we should strive to obtain.

 

[Runningman]

I don't think faith is a work, any more than accepting a gift is work. God just says "here you go" and it's yours, and you're saved unless you throw it in the garbage.

At what point does this just become a semantic game?

If the Bible said that faith is a gift I would likely reassess what I currently believe regarding faith being a work. I have yet to find any such verse.

 

[Ted01]

What I see is that Jesus compared Himself to the mana that Israel received from heaven. They actually had to go out, collect it, refine it, cook it, etc. They didn't simply receive ready-to-eat bread, there was work involved. If they didn't work for the manna that was given to them, they would have starved to death.

Numbers 11:7,8
7Now the manna resembled coriander seed, and its appearance was like that of gum resin. 8The people walked around and gathered it, ground it on a handmill or crushed it in a mortar, then boiled it in a cooking pot or shaped it into cakes. It tasted like pastry baked with fine oil.

Jesus said that He is the bread from heaven. I think it's a question of how accurate is the comparison between the situation Israel was in in the desert and the situation the people are in in the world and it must be 100% accurate. God provided Jesus and people must come to Him like they must come to the manna He provided to Israel.

John 6:32-36
32Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. 33For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. 34Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
35And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. 36But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.

It wasn't a matter of simply seeing Jesus and the miracles He did. While effective for many, it didn't work for all. The pretense of Jesus is imploring them that the work they need to do to access Jesus the bread from heaven is to believe in Him. To me that means faith is God's work for us to do. Faith is something we should strive to obtain.

Hmm... IDK. While you make an interesting argument for your opinion, I'm not convinced.
I think there's too much thinking going on to make those leaps. I don't think that Jesus was telling them
that they'd have to work really hard to be fed by God.
But I'm also having a hard time with your spelling/grammar... sorry.
(You're aware that the word "pretense" basically has a negative connotation to it? False intent?)


Anyway, you high-lighted "he that believeth on me shall never thirst." What "work" is there in that?

And not to derail the thread, what do you make of Rom. 10:9-10? There's no mention of "works" there, right?

I don't really consider "coming to Him" as a quantitative work... not like taking a long walk in the mountains type of thing.
It's all done in the heart/mind.
God Bless.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Dear brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ of Nazareth, our Lord and Savior,

Please read this OP before answering.

Serious question looking for some answers. Thought maybe I could find some here. I want to post two scriptures and see what people conclude. I’ll post the KJV.

My question is this: is faith in Christ a work?

John 6:28,29 KJV
28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Ephesians 2:8,9 KJV
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

If I understand correctly, Jesus is saying that the work God wants us to do to have salvation of our soul is to believe on His Son Jesus Christ.

However, Paul says that we are given a gift of being saved because of our faith and that it has nothing to do with our works or self-effort.

Can someone explain this to me? Thank you.

Hi Runningman,

A United Church of Christ preacher tried to use the John 6 quote as a "proof" text to support his heresy of works salvation, . He wanted faith in Christ to be equal with his faith in his obedience to baptism in his denomination's baptistry and other works of obedience. I rejected his false teaching of a works based salvation.

If you read the context of our KJV closely, I think you'll find that the audience Jesus spoke to thought that works of the Law were what they trusted for salvation. Jesus was using a figure of speech to make His point. He wasn't insisting on works. The Pharisees did. It was as if I told a group of Jews, You want to do works?? Here's something you should do.
Believe on the One that God sent.

Another point that Jesus may have infered is that God Himself (Jesus) was going to do the work necessary for our atonement.
There are 99 other uses of the word believe in this gospel. A Church of Christ pastor will take you to the one questionable to his understanding and throw out the 99 in order to make his point.

 

[Runningman]

Hi Runningman,

A United Church of Christ preacher tried to use the John 6 quote as a "proof" text to support his heresy of works salvation, . He wanted faith in Christ to be equal with his faith in his obedience to baptism in his denomination's baptistry and other works of obedience. I rejected his false teaching of a works based salvation.

If you read the context of our KJV closely, I think you'll find that the audience Jesus spoke to thought that works of the Law were what they trusted for salvation. Jesus was using a figure of speech to make His point. He wasn't insisting on works. The Pharisees did. It was as if I told a group of Jews, You want to do works?? Here's something you should do.
Believe on the One that God sent.

Another point that Jesus may have infered is that God Himself (Jesus) was going to do the work necessary for our atonement.
There are 99 other uses of the word believe in this gospel. A Church of Christ pastor will take you to the one questionable to his understanding and throw out the 99 in order to make his point.

I don’t see Jesus is teaching a works-based salvation. The prerequisite for salvation has always been faith. Jesus isn’t talking about “works of the Law” where legalists say one must earn their salvation through being “good enough.” But rather, the kind of work He is talking about is just something one does such as have faith. Faith is something someone must have and they might need to work to get that faith. God’s response to our faith is salvation.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

I don’t see Jesus is teaching a works-based salvation. The prerequisite for salvation has always been faith. Jesus isn’t talking about “works of the Law” where legalists say one must earn their salvation through being “good enough.” But rather, the kind of work He is talking about is just something one does such as have faith. Faith is something someone must have and they might need to work to get that faith. God’s response to our faith is salvation.

Help me understand what you mean.
Are you saying that Jesus gospel contradicts the one Paul preached, or that the two passages in your OP contradict each other?

 

[Runningman]

Help me understand what you mean.
Are you saying that Jesus gospel contradicts the one Paul preached, or that the two passages in your OP contradict each other?

Well neither. I am saying that Paul didn’t say the gift is faith but rather the gift is salvation.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Well neither. I am saying that Paul didn’t say the gift is faith but rather the gift is salvation.

Yes indeed,
"The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.".
Romans 6

Thanks for the clarification.
I only read the beginning posts and might have missed that if you already covered it.

 

[oyster67]

If I understand correctly, Jesus is saying that the work God wants us to do to have salvation of our soul is to believe on His Son Jesus Christ.

No, that is not what your verse says. Your verse is talking about the work of God. God gave His only begotten Son so that we would not have to perform a work like that. He did the dreadful work of blood sacrifice for us. God did the work that we might come by belief (faith). The Bible is clear about salvation by our faith and not our works.

29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

God worked that we might come by belief.

 

[Runningman]

No, that is not what your verse says. Your verse is talking about the work of God. God gave His only begotten Son so that we would not have to perform a work like that. He did the dreadful work of blood sacrifice for us. God did the work that we might come by belief (faith). The Bible is clear about salvation by our faith and not our works.



God worked that we might come by belief.

I agree, but who is doing the believing part for us? Are we believing because that’s our desire to do so or because God is making us believe?

 

[Mem]

John 6:28 the word for works (of God) in the Greek is N-ANP, Noun-Accusative Neuter Plural, where the Accusative case marks the direct object of the verb, i.e. work the works. As explained in Thayer's Greek Lexicon, Strong's NT John 6:28 citation: the works required and approved by God.
John 6:29 work (of God) in the Greek is N-NNS, Noun-Nominative Neuter Singular, where the Nominative case is the subject of a verb, namely "is" here. That is, This, that ye believe... is the work of God.

Is Jesus clarifying there is only one work that is left for us to do, to believe or is He saying God does that work?
There's no citation for John 6:29 in the Thayer's help for this "work."

However, if we look at the word for "believe" in 6:29, the Morphology is explained as V-PSA-2P, Verb- Present Subjunctive Active- 2nd Person Plural, where the Subjunctive case of a verb is used after certain expressions that contain an order or a request or wish, and the active voice is used when the subject of the verb performs the action named, which is "believe" in this instance.