"The rich man And Lazarus..."

[Runningman]

Daniel 3
23 And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.
24 Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonished, and rose up in haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king.
25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

Luke 16
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

Revelation 18
9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

But the only example of anything living forever in hell are worms:

Mark 9:47
47And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell,48where ‘their worm never dies, and the fire is never quenched.

Isaiah 66:24
24“As they go forth, they will see the corpses of the men who have rebelled against Me; for their worm will never die, their fire will never be quenched,

So immortal worms. If it’s literal then it’s self-evident only the worms never die. What do you say it’s symbolic/spiritual of?

 

[Saul-to-Paul]

But the only example of anything living forever in hell are worms:

Mark 9:47
47And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell,48where ‘their worm never dies, and the fire is never quenched.

Isaiah 66:24
24“As they go forth, they will see the corpses of the men who have rebelled against Me; for their worm will never die, their fire will never be quenched,

So immortal worms. If it’s literal then it’s self-evident only the worms never die. What do you say it’s symbolic/spiritual of?

It say their worm, not earthworms.

 

[Runningman]

It say their worm, not earthworms.

It’s earthworms, grubs, or maggots. That’s what the Greek in Mark 9:47 proves.

G4663
σκώληξ
skōlēx
sko'-lakes
Of uncertain derivative; a grub, maggot or earth worm: - worm.

Same with Isaiah 66:24.

 

[Runningman]

It’s earthworms, grubs, or maggots. That’s what the Greek in Mark 9:47 proves.

G4663
σκώληξ
skōlēx
sko'-lakes
Of uncertain derivative; a grub, maggot or earth worm: - worm.

Same with Isaiah 66:24.

I meant Mark 9:48.

 

[Saul-to-Paul]

It’s earthworms, grubs, or maggots. That’s what the Greek in Mark 9:47 proves.

G4663
σκώληξ
skōlēx
sko'-lakes
Of uncertain derivative; a grub, maggot or earth worm: - worm.

Same with Isaiah 66:24.

Ok. Let me ask you something. Jesus said don't be afraid of them which kills the body, but be afraid of Him that destroy both body and soul in hell.

Now if destroy means the same thing as kill why would I be afraid of Jesus?

 

[Runningman]

Ok. Let me ask you something. Jesus said don't be afraid of them which kills the body, but be afraid of Him that destroy both body and soul in hell.

Now if destroy means the same thing as kill why would I be afraid of Jesus?

If someone destroys someone else’s body then they are killed. If the body and soul are destroyed they are both killed. That’s certainly the conclusion Jesus was making.

If being destroyed isn’t the same as being killed then there wouldn’t be a reason to fear Him who can do that.

Thus the verse wouldn’t mean anything. It seems Jesus is saying if a body and soul are destroyed then they are killed; fear this.

 

[Saul-to-Paul]

If someone destroys someone else’s body then they are killed. If the body and soul are destroyed they are both killed. That’s certainly the conclusion Jesus was making.

If being destroyed isn’t the same as being killed then there wouldn’t be a reason to fear Him who can do that.

Thus the verse wouldn’t mean anything. It seems Jesus is saying if a body and soul are destroyed then they are killed; fear this.

Why fear Jesus if He's going to do the same thing as a man would, in which He said not to fear.

 

[Mem]

A nut is a fruit consisting of a hard or tough nutshell protecting a kernel which is usually edible. In general usage and in a culinary sense, a wide variety of dry seeds are called nuts, but in a botanical context "nut" implies that the shell does not open to release the seed (indehiscent).
Most seeds come from fruits that naturally free themselves from the shell, but …

 

[Runningman]

Why fear Jesus if He's going to do the same thing as a man would, in which He said not to fear.

Matt. 10:28
28Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

They aren’t the same. People can’t kill someone’s soul, but God can. The point of fearing God is having the soul killed (or destroyed.)

Why would someone fear their body and soul being destroyed by God if the alternative is worse? Jesus is saying that the soul dying, too, is a more worse fate. Why?

 

[Runningman]

A nut is a fruit consisting of a hard or tough nutshell protecting a kernel which is usually edible. In general usage and in a culinary sense, a wide variety of dry seeds are called nuts, but in a botanical context "nut" implies that the shell does not open to release the seed (indehiscent).
Most seeds come from fruits that naturally free themselves from the shell, but …

But other nuts need to be cracked.

 

[Mem]

But other nuts need to be cracked.

They are good roasted. However, many "culinary nuts' are only legumes, such as peanuts, which' root comes from, of French origin I think but I might be off, a word for 'lion.'

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Hilarious. John NEVER saw the resurrection. But he will be in it when it occurs.

Revelation 11:11-12
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

This isn't THE resurrection where ALL believers receive their glorified and immortal bodies. In fact, there have been many who were "raised to life", both in the OT and during Jesus' ministry on earth, including Jesus' very close friend, Lazarus. But NONE of them received an immortal body.

How do I know that? The Bible tells me that there will only ONE resurrection of the saved, and that is "when He comes".

1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

The words "when He comes" is a direct reference to the Second Advent. In the OT, there are only 2 prophesies of Jesus coming to earth.

First Advent as a baby to become the Suffering Servant, and Second Advent as King of kings. So every phrase about "the coming of the Lord" directly refers to the Second Advent, which is at the end of the Trib, and when Jesus comes back to rule for 1,000 years.

There are NO verses describing or showing Jesus taking any resurrected believers to heaven. So the "rapture" is a theory, and not biblically supported.

Yes, you privately explained it to me. You haven't Biblically explained it to me.

4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

Completely clear to someone who privately interprets the Word of God. You will never come to full truth without comparing spiritual with spiritual.

Then YOU tell ME what v.4 and 5 teach. I've given you the words of Scripture that aren't NOT difficult to understand and follow.

I can't imagine how you might view them. So please share.

Since I've given you the "biblical words" which explain themselves, there is nothing else I can do for you.

So, tell me what the words mean to you.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Matt. 10:28
28Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

This verse is a command to have AWE and RESPECT for the Lord Jesus Christ, who is omnipotent.

Again, "able to" and "will" are not even close to the same.

I AM ABLE to kill lots of people, but I have NEVER killed anyone. That is the difference.

They aren’t the same. People can’t kill someone’s soul, but God can. The point of fearing God is having the soul killed (or destroyed.)

It isn't about that. It is about awe and respect for God who is omnipotent.

Why would someone fear their body and soul being destroyed by God if the alternative is worse? Jesus is saying that the soul dying, too, is a more worse fate. Why?

No, He is not saying that. It is only about awe and respect because of His omnipotence.

 

[Runningman]

This verse is a command to have AWE and RESPECT for the Lord Jesus Christ, who is omnipotent.

Again, "able to" and "will" are not even close to the same.

I AM ABLE to kill lots of people, but I have NEVER killed anyone. That is the difference.


It isn't about that. It is about awe and respect for God who is omnipotent.


No, He is not saying that. It is only about awe and respect because of His omnipotence.

No that’s false.

I already explained it accurately. No need to add anything else.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
This verse is a command to have AWE and RESPECT for the Lord Jesus Christ, who is omnipotent.

Again, "able to" and "will" are not even close to the same.

I AM ABLE to kill lots of people, but I have NEVER killed anyone. That is the difference.

No that’s false.

OK, so YOUR version is that we don't have to have awe nd respect for the Lord jesus Christ then, but just be very afraid of Him??????

I already explained it accurately. No need to add anything else.

Your "version" of Scripture isn't accurate at all.

And you still really think that "able to" and "will" are synonymous? Why? That isn't logical or reasonable. And any dictionary will refute your opinion every time.

And my example that clearly shows the difference between "able to" and "will" prove that I am right and you are wrong.

 

[Runningman]

FreeGrace2 said:
This verse is a command to have AWE and RESPECT for the Lord Jesus Christ, who is omnipotent.

Again, "able to" and "will" are not even close to the same.

I AM ABLE to kill lots of people, but I have NEVER killed anyone. That is the difference.

OK, so YOUR version is that we don't have to have awe nd respect for the Lord jesus Christ then, but just be very afraid of Him??????


Your "version" of Scripture isn't accurate at all.

And you still really think that "able to" and "will" are synonymous? Why? That isn't logical or reasonable. And any dictionary will refute your opinion every time.

And my example that clearly shows the difference between "able to" and "will" prove that I am right and you are wrong.

I wasn't asking you, I'm telling you. This isn't debatable. You might as well be talking to a wall on this particular subject. Your deceptions are powerless here. Good luck.

 

[Saul-to-Paul]

That has absolutely nothing to do with what John saw.

Revelation 20:4
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Nothing about resurrected spiritual bodies.

Wow I missed that! John not only saw the souls but it clearly says in context those souls lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Matt. 10:28
28Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

They aren’t the same. People can’t kill someone’s soul, but God can. The point of fearing God is having the soul killed (or destroyed.)

Why would someone fear their body and soul being destroyed by God if the alternative is worse? Jesus is saying that the soul dying, too, is a more worse fate. Why?

If the soul Jesus destroys is eventually going to cease to exist I don't see the difference.

 

[Saul-to-Paul]

Revelation 11:11-12
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

This isn't THE resurrection where ALL believers receive their glorified and immortal bodies. In fact, there have been many who were "raised to life", both in the OT and during Jesus' ministry on earth, including Jesus' very close friend, Lazarus. But NONE of them received an immortal body.

It's anything you want it say. Take Revelation 20:4 to an English teacher and ask him/her who lived and reigned with Christ in this verse.

Guarantee, he/she will say the souls.

How do I know that? The Bible tells me that there will only ONE resurrection of the saved, and that is "when He comes".

You're hanging an entire study on one word you believe only refers to the body.

There are NO verses describing or showing Jesus taking any resurrected believers to heaven. So the "rapture" is a theory, and not biblically supported.

Now I think you're punking me. 🤣

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: (THE RAPTURE) and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Then YOU tell ME what v.4 and 5 teach. I've given you the words of Scripture that aren't NOT difficult to understand and follow. I can't imagine how you might view them. So please share.
Since I've given you the "biblical words" which explain themselves, there is nothing else I can do for you. So, tell me what the words mean to you.

Revelation 20:4 ----that 1000 years in Revelation 20:4 is the NT visible church age.
Revelation 20:5-----is the end of the world.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I wasn't asking you, I'm telling you. This isn't debatable.

That is hilarious.

[QUOET]You might as well be talking to a wall on this particular subject.[/QUOTE]
That's what I've been doing when sharing Scripture with you!!

Your deceptions are powerless here. Good luck.

You have zero evidence. So all you can do is demonize.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
This isn't THE resurrection where ALL believers receive their glorified and immortal bodies. In fact, there have been many who were "raised to life", both in the OT and during Jesus' ministry on earth, including Jesus' very close friend, Lazarus. But NONE of them received an immortal body.

It's anything you want it say.

Pay closer attention. I am saying what the Bible says.

Take Revelation 20:4 to an English teacher and ask him/her who lived and reigned with Christ in this verse.

It is clear who was resurrected; trib martyrs. Who do YOU think it refers to?

Guarantee, he/she will say the souls.

The Bible uses the word "soul" to mean a "person", not a disembodied spirit.

FreeGrace2 said:
How do I know that? The Bible tells me that there will only ONE resurrection of the saved, and that is "when He comes".

You're hanging an entire study on one word you believe only refers to the body.

Quit trying to change the subject. 1 Cor 15:23 tells us WHEN the resurrection will occur.

FreeGrace2 said:
There are NO verses describing or showing Jesus taking any resurrected believers to heaven. So the "rapture" is a theory, and not biblically supported.

Now I think you're punking me. 🤣

OK, fine. Show me ANY verse that shows Jesus taking resurrected believers to heaven.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: (THE RAPTURE)and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Nice try, but no dice. Yes, the living believers WILL meet the Lord in the air, but the "rapture theory" is that He takes them back to heaven during the Tribulation. So, where in this passage, or any other passage, do YOU read that Jesus takes resurrected believers to heaven?

FreeGrace2 said:
Then YOU tell ME what v.4 and 5 teach. I've given you the words of Scripture that aren't NOT difficult to understand and follow. I can't imagine how you might view them. So please share.

Since I've given you the "biblical words" which explain themselves, there is nothing else I can do for you. So, tell me what the words mean to you.

I already told you. But your own biases keep you from learning.

Revelation 20:4 ----that 1000 years in Revelation 20:4 is the NT visible church age.
Revelation 20:5-----is the end of the world.

Then you have just revealed a serious deficit in reading comprehension. Rev 20 is about The Lord's Second Advent, and then setting up His Millennial kingdom, with Satan bound for those 1,000 years. And near the end of the Millennium, Satan is released to again deceive the whole world. And Jesus throws Satan into the LOF (v.10) where the beast and FP have been for 1,000 years (19:20). Then the GWT judgment, where all unbelievers will be cast into the LOF.

Your deluded view of 20:5 is beyond absurd and quite hilarious. The "end of the world" would refer to Rev 21:1. But i get you didn't get that far in your troubled reading.