"The rich man And Lazarus..."
- Thread starter GRACE_ambassador
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
FreeGrace2 said:
It is what God breathed into Adam's nostrils. Gen 2:7 You know as much as I do, if you would read that verse.
Any more irrelevant questions?
Well, you are at least consistent. And provided yet another irrelevant question.
I don't need to define "breathe". All human beings know what that is and means.
So, care to share which planet you might have come from?
It is what God breathed into Adam's nostrils. Gen 2:7 You know as much as I do, if you would read that verse.
Any more irrelevant questions?
Well, you are at least consistent. And provided yet another irrelevant question.
I don't need to define "breathe". All human beings know what that is and means.
So, care to share which planet you might have come from?
-
1
- Show all
No that’s all wrong. I’ve already explained the truth on those matters and righty-divided the word. You having a lot to say doesn’t make it true. Actually, the longer your responses are the more they meander deeper and deeper into a rabbit hole of nonsense. Truly bizarre.
I don’t make a habit of reading false doctrinal commentaries. It pollutes the mind and bothers the soul; perhaps that’s your objective. Quote Bible verses or don’t bother responding to me. Not that there’s a verse you can quote to actually prove what you believe; we’ve already been through this.
I don’t make a habit of reading false doctrinal commentaries. It pollutes the mind and bothers the soul; perhaps that’s your objective. Quote Bible verses or don’t bother responding to me. Not that there’s a verse you can quote to actually prove what you believe; we’ve already been through this.
The Bible says a lot more than Matthew 25:45. You’re removing it from all context and conflating it with the death of Jesus, the saved, and ignoring 99.9% of everything else the Bible says. It’s chaos.
How come we keep talking and I keep trying to show you more of the Bible and you just keep talking about Mathew 25:45?
How come we keep talking and I keep trying to show you more of the Bible and you just keep talking about Mathew 25:45?
That's what the Bible clearly says:
Revelation 20:4
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
No mention of those souls receiving their spiritual bodies. When someone becomes saved they are instantaneously in the kingdom of God reigning with Christ.
Yes, when someone becomes saved their soul has been resurrected from the dead.
There will 2 resurrections for the elect. 1 of the soul, the other for the body. Again, in Rev 20:4 mentions no spiritual bodies reigning with Christ it only mentions the souls.
Yes, the millennial reign in heaven. The 1000 years are not a literal 1000 years.
Revelation 20:4 does not say they lost their heads IN the tribulation.
According to you, not the Bible. Again Revelation 20:4 mentions nothing about resurrected spiritual bodies. You have written your own narrative.
2 Peter 1:20
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
If you want to do it God's way:
1 Corinthians 2:13
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
If you don't do the above you will get NO WHERE in God's Word.
That's according you! The rest of the dead lived not again are the unsaved bodies that had been returned to the dust. This happens when Jesus appears at the end of the world
Correct. But they will meet the Lord in the air, and shall be forever with Him. There's no reigning with Christ,(physically) on this corrupt earth.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Revelation 20:4
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
No mention of those souls receiving their spiritual bodies. When someone becomes saved they are instantaneously in the kingdom of God reigning with Christ.
Yes, when someone becomes saved their soul has been resurrected from the dead.
There will 2 resurrections for the elect. 1 of the soul, the other for the body. Again, in Rev 20:4 mentions no spiritual bodies reigning with Christ it only mentions the souls.
Yes, the millennial reign in heaven. The 1000 years are not a literal 1000 years.
Revelation 20:4 does not say they lost their heads IN the tribulation.
According to you, not the Bible. Again Revelation 20:4 mentions nothing about resurrected spiritual bodies. You have written your own narrative.
2 Peter 1:20
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
If you want to do it God's way:
1 Corinthians 2:13
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
If you don't do the above you will get NO WHERE in God's Word.
That's according you! The rest of the dead lived not again are the unsaved bodies that had been returned to the dust. This happens when Jesus appears at the end of the world
Correct. But they will meet the Lord in the air, and shall be forever with Him. There's no reigning with Christ,(physically) on this corrupt earth.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Nope.
Nope.
I have been saying what the Bible says.
Thanks for the ad hominem. You're getting better and better at throwing them around.
I guess you mean anyone who disagrees with your opinions.
My objective is to defend the truth. What you think of it is of no concern for me.
Of course I have been.
Yes, we have, and you have no excuse for your wildly unbiblical opinions.
You admit that 2 humans plus all the fallen angels will "be tormented day and night, for ever and ever".
But you totally balk at the idea of anyone from the GWT judgment, all of which will be cast into the same LOF, as having the same fate.
That is totally unreasonable, since there is NO teaching in the Bible that only 2 humans will be tormented for ever and ever and the rest of the unsaved will simply cease to exist.
If all the verses from the OT about "death" and "perishing" and "being destroyed" refers to all the unsaved, how come the beast and FP won't die, perish or be destoyed?
What verse or passage explains WHY those 2 get it worse than the rest? You have no answer, of course.
So your logic is quite fuzzy. Actually, illogical.
If all the OT verses about death, perishing and being destroyed refer to the end fate of unbelievers, that SHOULD also apply to the beast and FP.
And yet you admit that those 2 will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
One of your hang ups is your refusal to accept that "resurrection" ONLY applies to the body.
There are no verses in resurrection passages that even speak of souls.
So again, you have no excuse.
So every refusal only results in your digging yourself deeper and deeper into your own pit.
Nope.
I have been saying what the Bible says.
Thanks for the ad hominem. You're getting better and better at throwing them around.
I guess you mean anyone who disagrees with your opinions.
My objective is to defend the truth. What you think of it is of no concern for me.
Of course I have been.
Yes, we have, and you have no excuse for your wildly unbiblical opinions.
You admit that 2 humans plus all the fallen angels will "be tormented day and night, for ever and ever".
But you totally balk at the idea of anyone from the GWT judgment, all of which will be cast into the same LOF, as having the same fate.
That is totally unreasonable, since there is NO teaching in the Bible that only 2 humans will be tormented for ever and ever and the rest of the unsaved will simply cease to exist.
If all the verses from the OT about "death" and "perishing" and "being destroyed" refers to all the unsaved, how come the beast and FP won't die, perish or be destoyed?
What verse or passage explains WHY those 2 get it worse than the rest? You have no answer, of course.
So your logic is quite fuzzy. Actually, illogical.
If all the OT verses about death, perishing and being destroyed refer to the end fate of unbelievers, that SHOULD also apply to the beast and FP.
And yet you admit that those 2 will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
One of your hang ups is your refusal to accept that "resurrection" ONLY applies to the body.
There are no verses in resurrection passages that even speak of souls.
So again, you have no excuse.
So every refusal only results in your digging yourself deeper and deeper into your own pit.
FreeGrace2 said:
It is what God breathed into Adam's nostrils. Gen 2:7 You know as much as I do, if you would read that verse.
Any more irrelevant questions?
Well, you are at least consistent. And provided yet another irrelevant question.
I don't need to define "breathe". All human beings know what that is and means.
So, care to share which planet you might have come from?
I'm getting that vibe as well. A troll, I think they are called. Just looking for trouble to stir up.
What's up with those totally irrelevant questions!
It is what God breathed into Adam's nostrils. Gen 2:7 You know as much as I do, if you would read that verse.
Any more irrelevant questions?
Well, you are at least consistent. And provided yet another irrelevant question.
I don't need to define "breathe". All human beings know what that is and means.
So, care to share which planet you might have come from?
I'm getting that vibe as well. A troll, I think they are called. Just looking for trouble to stir up.
What's up with those totally irrelevant questions!
-
1
- Show all
FreeGrace2 said:
Apparently, then, you believe that bodily-less souls will reign with Christ??? Are you serious?
OK, you do have a reading problem then.
Revelation 20:4
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
No mention of those souls receiving their spiritual bodies.[/QUOTE]
Well, why don't you just include the NEXT VERSE then? That's where we see that these beheaded souls WERE resurrected.
v.5 - (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
So, this "first resurrection" refers to the beheaded martyrs of the Tribulation. They ARE resurrected, and the word "resurrection" ONLY REFERS to the body, in every passage of resurrection.
You are rather unfamiliar with the Bible if you believe that.
2 Tim 2:12 refutes your opinion. It is only those who "endure" who will "reign with Christ". Do you understand what "endure" means? It means to remain faithful to the end of your life. So "reigning with Christ" CANNOT be "instantaneous" as you opine.
Yes, when someone becomes saved their soul has been resurrected from the dead.[/QUOTE]
Please prove this claim with actual Scripture that SAYS what you opine.
I don't believe opinions. I do believe verses that SAY what others say.
How about the very next verse which proves these beheaded martyrs ARE resurrected.
OK, there's no reason for further discussion. You have been quite deluded. Rev 20 is crystal clear about a literal 1,000 years.
I don't deal with deluded people. They are impossible to reason with.
You've already lost your head.
Good bye.
Here's your final REFUTATION from Scripture:
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
Red words PROVE that the souls who will reign with Christ were beheaded for their testimony and didn't worship the beast or his image and didn't receive the mark of the beast.
Blue words PROVE that they WERE resurrected and then reigned with Christ for 1,000 years.
Orange word PROVE that their "came to life" IS their resurrection, of which ALL saved people are resurrected at the same time.
1 Cor 15:23 PROVES that.
Apparently, then, you believe that bodily-less souls will reign with Christ??? Are you serious?
OK, you do have a reading problem then.
Revelation 20:4
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
No mention of those souls receiving their spiritual bodies.[/QUOTE]
Well, why don't you just include the NEXT VERSE then? That's where we see that these beheaded souls WERE resurrected.
v.5 - (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
So, this "first resurrection" refers to the beheaded martyrs of the Tribulation. They ARE resurrected, and the word "resurrection" ONLY REFERS to the body, in every passage of resurrection.
You are rather unfamiliar with the Bible if you believe that.
2 Tim 2:12 refutes your opinion. It is only those who "endure" who will "reign with Christ". Do you understand what "endure" means? It means to remain faithful to the end of your life. So "reigning with Christ" CANNOT be "instantaneous" as you opine.
Yes, when someone becomes saved their soul has been resurrected from the dead.[/QUOTE]
Please prove this claim with actual Scripture that SAYS what you opine.
I don't believe opinions. I do believe verses that SAY what others say.
How about the very next verse which proves these beheaded martyrs ARE resurrected.
OK, there's no reason for further discussion. You have been quite deluded. Rev 20 is crystal clear about a literal 1,000 years.
I don't deal with deluded people. They are impossible to reason with.
You've already lost your head.
Good bye.
Here's your final REFUTATION from Scripture:
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
Red words PROVE that the souls who will reign with Christ were beheaded for their testimony and didn't worship the beast or his image and didn't receive the mark of the beast.
Blue words PROVE that they WERE resurrected and then reigned with Christ for 1,000 years.
Orange word PROVE that their "came to life" IS their resurrection, of which ALL saved people are resurrected at the same time.
1 Cor 15:23 PROVES that.
-
2
- Show all
Since all of the Bible verses are in harmony, you reconcile the wages of sin being death versus eternal torment by pretending that death doesn’t mean death and destroy mean destroy.
That’s how you keep destroyed people alive and conscious forever.
Sorry Jackson, I actually do like you, and I say this because I believe you can be helped, but you’re only deceiving yourself and others aren’t helping you, but I will.
That’s how you keep destroyed people alive and conscious forever.
Sorry Jackson, I actually do like you, and I say this because I believe you can be helped, but you’re only deceiving yourself and others aren’t helping you, but I will.
-
1
- Show all
ALL of the saved dead will receive a body, much like Christ's, when He appeared after His Resurrection.
1 John 3:2
New King James Version
2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.
2 Corinthians 5:2-4
New King James Version
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our [a]habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life.
1 John 3:2
New King James Version
2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.
2 Corinthians 5:2-4
New King James Version
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our [a]habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life.
-
1
- Show all
Why do you keep LYING about what ECT people believe? We believe that "death", "perishing" and "destroyed" all refer to bodies, and NOT souls. And you have NO evidence that souls will cease to exist.
Their souls.
Why don't you prove to YOURSELF that in EVERY resurrection passage, there is NO MENTION of souls?
So, souls don't need to be resurrected. They are in heaven with Jesus until the 2nd Advent. When they come back to earth with Jesus, they will receive their glorified resurrected body again.
Their souls.
Why don't you prove to YOURSELF that in EVERY resurrection passage, there is NO MENTION of souls?
So, souls don't need to be resurrected. They are in heaven with Jesus until the 2nd Advent. When they come back to earth with Jesus, they will receive their glorified resurrected body again.
That has absolutely nothing to do with what John saw.
Revelation 20:4
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Nothing about resurrected spiritual bodies.
Revelation 20:4
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Nothing about resurrected spiritual bodies.
PennEd said:
ALL of the saved dead will receive a body, much like Christ's, when He appeared after His Resurrection.
Hilarious. John NEVER saw the resurrection. But he will be in it when it occurs.
Apparently you're rather dishonest. I already explained to you that v.5 proves the martyrs were resurrected.
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
So there is no excuse for your ignorance or lie.
When read together, it is completely clear that they were resurrected. The FIRST resurrection, no less.
ALL of the saved dead will receive a body, much like Christ's, when He appeared after His Resurrection.
Hilarious. John NEVER saw the resurrection. But he will be in it when it occurs.
Apparently you're rather dishonest. I already explained to you that v.5 proves the martyrs were resurrected.
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
So there is no excuse for your ignorance or lie.
When read together, it is completely clear that they were resurrected. The FIRST resurrection, no less.
-
2
- Show all
Revelation 11:11-12
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
Yes, you privately explained it to me. You haven't Biblically explained it to me.
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
Completely clear to someone who privately interprets the Word of God. You will never come to full truth without comparing spiritual with spiritual.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
Yes, you privately explained it to me. You haven't Biblically explained it to me.
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
Completely clear to someone who privately interprets the Word of God. You will never come to full truth without comparing spiritual with spiritual.
-
1
- Show all
Daniel 3
23 And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.
24 Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonished, and rose up in haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king.
25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.
Luke 16
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Revelation 18
9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
23 And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.
24 Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonished, and rose up in haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king.
25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.
Luke 16
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Revelation 18
9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.