Even So Faith, If It Hath Not Works, Is Dead, Being Alone.

[Walter]

James 2

Faith Removes Discrimination

1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;

3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:

4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?

5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?

7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?

8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

Faith Proves Itself By Works

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Love, Walter

 

[Pilgrimshope]

James 2

Faith Removes Discrimination

1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;

3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:

4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?

5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?

7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?

8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

Faith Proves Itself By Works

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Love, Walter

amen

“By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Noah had faith because God told him what was going to happen and what would save him and Noah believed and of course the reaction is to do what he believed would save him build the ark by gods commandment

Noah heard and believed .

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the work came because he believed what God said

“But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

And God said unto Noah, ( faith comes by hearing the word of God ) The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth. Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.

( he speaks to Noah the instructions for the ark )


Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:8, 13-14, 22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and because he believed what God said he did what God said would save him and his family

if Noah had told God “ I have faith there’s no works involved “ he would have drown lacking faith

“For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Blade]

So faith comes by hearing hearing by the word of God. So faith is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen. Ok so these "works". Are our works based on only what we do on what we can see hear feel? Or waling talking like our Father does? Oh love love this.

 

[BroTan]

James 2

Faith Removes Discrimination

1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;

3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:

4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?

5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?

7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?

8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

Faith Proves Itself By Works

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Love, Walter

That's right, the bible says, we must not only be a hearer of the word, but a doer of the word also (James 1:21-22). If we really have faith in Jesus our actions will prove it. If Jesus is our Lord then we will obey him. Even a child will obey a parent, by getting good grades in school, for the reward of a new bicycle. The child cannot earn money for the bicycle, but instead must act upon their faith to receive the free gift. We must do the same to receive eternal life. "FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD” (James 2:20).

Paul said in (Gal. 6 (v.3) For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself. (v.4) But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.

The book says let every man prove his own work, and if your work is good then you will rejoice in it. (v.5) For every man shall bear his own burden. That’s right; every man must bear his own burden. (v.7) Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. God is not to be played with. Whatsoever you plant, that’s what you are going to reap. Be it good works unto eternal life, or evil works unto eternal damnation. The choice is yours, and your works belong to you.

 

[TMS]

Faith and works can not be seperated.

With true faith comes works. Good Works are a result of faith.

We are saved by faith alone.
Faith without works is dead.

We don't earn salvation by works, we do works because we have faith.

 

[Runningman]

So faith comes by hearing hearing by the word of God. So faith is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen. Ok so these "works". Are our works based on only what we do on what we can see hear feel? Or waling talking like our Father does? Oh love love this.

Faith is a “work” in the sense it requires self-effort. It’s not a work in the sense it’s a work to be performed to keep the Law of Moses. Faith is an act of obedience to God because He commands it, meaning to do what God requires one must literally work to do something.

I don’t know if you can recall a time before you were a Christian, but the characters in the day of Jesus had never heard anything like He was saying until He came along. It can be a tough pill to swallow and digest the content of the message of the cross because it doesn’t make sense according to conventional wisdom.

If one wants to believe in the message of the cross, put their faith in it, they’ll probably have to work or be convinced by some miracle or sign.

That’s how I came to Christianity. Not that I chose God, but God chose me and I agreed.

 

[FreeGrace2]

James 2

Faith Removes Discrimination

The chapter does NOT say this.

1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;

3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:

4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?

5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?

7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?

8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

Faith Proves Itself By Works

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Love, Walter

One of THE most misunderstood, and unfortunately abused, chapters in the Bible.

The chapter begin with an admonition against the hypocrisy of discrimination beween people. Believers aren't to do that.

v.14 is NOT about "saving faith" at all, but rather, what having works saves the believer FROM. iow, if a believer doesn't have evidence of his/her faith, what aren't they going to be saved FROM?

The obvious answer is being labeled a hypocrite. Who is ok with being called that? Not even hypocrites themselves want to be called that.

The evidence for this is found in the next 2 verses:
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

This is an example of what "lip service" looks like. Or, saying one thing, but doing something else. Notice 1 John 3:18 - Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.

It seems John had James 2:14-16 in mind when he wrote that verse.

This is exactly the point James was making in chapter 2. Don't be a hypocrite. Demonstrate your faith before others so they can SEE your faith in action.

v.18 is the summary verse for this passage:
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Unfortunately, most translations that add quote marks have the end quote right after the phrase "thou hast faith, and I have works". But if that were correct, the next words just don't make sense. The "someone" is acknowledging that the one to whom he is speaking has faith, and he himself has works.

Then he challenges the one to whom he is speaking to prove their faith without works, and he himself will demonstrate his faith by his works.

The word "dead" in James 2 is used as a figure of speech to denote lack of action, barrenness (no fruit) etc.

So, a faith without works is simply a saved person who is lazy, unfaithful, disobedient.

Consider this: IF one is saved by faith plus works, then the person "cooperated" with God, or by their own efforts earned their salvation.

At this, I expect a flood of posts from both Arminians and Calvinists who will argue for their strange and misunderstood view of this.

 

[JaumeJ]

James 2

Faith Removes Discrimination

1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;

3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:

4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?

5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?

7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?

8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

Faith Proves Itself By Works

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Love, Walter

Teaching not to discriminate is just part of our beloved Maker's Perfection. It is there in fron of our faces, yet so many continue in this oppressive mindset. God bless you for th e reminders.

 

[wattie]

The chapter does NOT say this.


One of THE most misunderstood, and unfortunately abused, chapters in the Bible.

The chapter begin with an admonition against the hypocrisy of discrimination beween people. Believers aren't to do that.

v.14 is NOT about "saving faith" at all, but rather, what having works saves the believer FROM. iow, if a believer doesn't have evidence of his/her faith, what aren't they going to be saved FROM?

The obvious answer is being labeled a hypocrite. Who is ok with being called that? Not even hypocrites themselves want to be called that.

The evidence for this is found in the next 2 verses:
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

This is an example of what "lip service" looks like. Or, saying one thing, but doing something else. Notice 1 John 3:18 - Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.

It seems John had James 2:14-16 in mind when he wrote that verse.

This is exactly the point James was making in chapter 2. Don't be a hypocrite. Demonstrate your faith before others so they can SEE your faith in action.

v.18 is the summary verse for this passage:
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Unfortunately, most translations that add quote marks have the end quote right after the phrase "thou hast faith, and I have works". But if that were correct, the next words just don't make sense. The "someone" is acknowledging that the one to whom he is speaking has faith, and he himself has works.

Then he challenges the one to whom he is speaking to prove their faith without works, and he himself will demonstrate his faith by his works.

The word "dead" in James 2 is used as a figure of speech to denote lack of action, barrenness (no fruit) etc.

So, a faith without works is simply a saved person who is lazy, unfaithful, disobedient.

Consider this: IF one is saved by faith plus works, then the person "cooperated" with God, or by their own efforts earned their salvation.

At this, I expect a flood of posts from both Arminians and Calvinists who will argue for their strange and misunderstood view of this.

Thank you sir!

Yes much of what James writes about is what we do with faith already given to us through salvation. Not that if we don't build on our faith we lose salvation.. or that we were never saved to begin with.

Like you say.. a saved person will have fruit from being saved.. but self effort works aren't part of eternal salvation.

The examples James gives are all people responding out of love having already been imputed righteousness to. The may do this.. but if they don't.. doesn't mean they weren't saved.

There are false converts of course, who bear no fruit at all, but like you say.. God does all the saving at salvation..no mixture of self effort works.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Thank you sir!

My pleasure, ma'am!

Yes much of what James writes about is what we do with faith already given to us through salvation. Not that if we don't build on our faith we lose salvation.. or that we were never saved to begin with.

Like you say.. a saved person will have fruit from being saved.. but self effort works aren't part of eternal salvation.

The examples James gives are all people responding out of love having already been imputed righteousness to. The may do this.. but if they don't.. doesn't mean they weren't saved.

There are false converts of course, who bear no fruit at all, but like you say.. God does all the saving at salvation..no mixture of self effort works.

It's so refreshing to see that there are still some who understand the truths of James!

 

[Rondonmon]

James 2

Faith Removes Discrimination

1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;

3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:

4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?

5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?

7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?

8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

Faith Proves Itself By Works

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Love, Walter

Basically it comes down to this simple concept.

If you "BELIEVE" in Jesus and have NO WORKS, that means you actually know Jesus and have refused to FOLLOW HIM or Lay Down your Treasures to fulfill his mission, like the Rich Man in the bible. That's worse, IMHO, than having never known Christ, at least they still have a shot because most people know intuitively they are sinners, but those who think they are saved but refuse to follow Christ will be in for a sad awakening, as in "I never knew you".

So, basically NO WORK means you have buried your talents in the sand.

 

[wattie]

My pleasure, ma'am!


It's so refreshing to see that there are still some who understand the truths of James!

Ah..thanks.. but i ain't no ma'am

 

[wattie]

Basically it comes down to this simple concept.

If you "BELIEVE" in Jesus and have NO WORKS, that means you actually know Jesus and have refused to FOLLOW HIM or Lay Down your Treasures to fulfill his mission, like the Rich Man in the bible. That's worse, IMHO, than having never known Christ, at least they still have a shot because most people know intuitively they are sinners, but those who think they are saved but refuse to follow Christ will be in for a sad awakening, as in "I never knew you".

So, basically NO WORK means you have buried your talents in the sand.

Of course there are false converts.. but works have zip zero nadda to do with initial salvation.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

So faith comes by hearing hearing by the word of God. So faith is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen. Ok so these "works". Are our works based on only what we do on what we can see hear feel? Or waling talking like our Father does? Oh love love this.

“For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:10‬ ‭

the gospel is foreordained from the beginning that we walk therin. It’s what makes a Christian

 

[FreeGrace2]

Basically it comes down to this simple concept.

If you "BELIEVE" in Jesus and have NO WORKS, that means you actually know Jesus and have refused to FOLLOW HIM or Lay Down your Treasures to fulfill his mission, like the Rich Man in the bible.

Well, not exactly. There are many who have come to faith through evangelistic events, etc, even personal witnessing, and never received any discipleship. iow, no training. So it isn't a matter of refusing, as you suggest. it may just be a matter of ignorance of what the Christian life is supposed to be.

So, basically NO WORK means you have buried your talents in the sand.

It certainly means that the believer isn't filled with the Spirit.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
My pleasure, ma'am!


It's so refreshing to see that there are still some who understand the truths of James!

Ah..thanks.. but i ain't no ma'am

Oh, oh. I knew a Wattie once. She was nice. Thanks for the correction.

 

[FreeGrace2]

“For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:10‬ ‭

the gospel is foreordained from the beginning that we walk therin. It’s what makes a Christian

Could you explain what you mean by "the gospel is foreordained from the beginning". The verse addresses believers. All believers are created for good works. That's what election is about; being chosen for service. The "us" in "God chose us" means believers, as v.19 defines "us" as "us who believe".

 

[wattie]

FreeGrace2 said:
My pleasure, ma'am!


It's so refreshing to see that there are still some who understand the truths of James!

Oh, oh. I knew a Wattie once. She was nice. Thanks for the correction.

Wattie for me is short for my surname Watson

 

[BroTan]

Jesus said in (Matt. 16:24-27) (v.24) Then said Jesus unto his disciples, if any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. That was the Lord’s burden, to die on the cross for the sins of man. Now as we read earlier every man must bear his own burden, and what is your burden? (v.25) For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. You must give up your life in this world; you must not get caught up in the cares of this world. You must bring forth-good fruits of faith by keeping God’s commandments, statues, and judgments. (v.26) For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Some of the great patriarchs in (Heb.11) gave up a lot, some even their lives in exchange for their soul. You see they had great faith (belief) that their souls (bodies) would be raised at the first resurrection. Some people won’t even give up some of the littlest things like, going to church on Sunday, which is not written in the Bible, not one time, and the pagan holidays of Christmas and Easter, praying to the Virgin Mary, I could go on and on. And most so-called Christians know these rituals have nothing to do with Jesus and the Bible, but a lot of work get put into them. But do they understand that they are offensive to God? Maybe it’s because they have more faith in man than God, maybe it’s because they fear how man is going to treat them, and don’t fear God. But listen up; (v.27) For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his holy angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Now these are the words of Jesus (the Son of man), you know the savior of the world. He said that when he comes he is going to judge every man according to his works. Don't be deceived thinking you all you need to do is have faith in the Lord and you will be saved?

 

[wattie]

Jesus said in (Matt. 16:24-27) (v.24) Then said Jesus unto his disciples, if any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. That was the Lord’s burden, to die on the cross for the sins of man. Now as we read earlier every man must bear his own burden, and what is your burden? (v.25) For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. You must give up your life in this world; you must not get caught up in the cares of this world. You must bring forth-good fruits of faith by keeping God’s commandments, statues, and judgments. (v.26) For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Some of the great patriarchs in (Heb.11) gave up a lot, some even their lives in exchange for their soul. You see they had great faith (belief) that their souls (bodies) would be raised at the first resurrection. Some people won’t even give up some of the littlest things like, going to church on Sunday, which is not written in the Bible, not one time, and the pagan holidays of Christmas and Easter, praying to the Virgin Mary, I could go on and on. And most so-called Christians know these rituals have nothing to do with Jesus and the Bible, but a lot of work get put into them. But do they understand that they are offensive to God? Maybe it’s because they have more faith in man than God, maybe it’s because they fear how man is going to treat them, and don’t fear God. But listen up; (v.27) For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his holy angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Now these are the words of Jesus (the Son of man), you know the savior of the world. He said that when he comes he is going to judge every man according to his works. Don't be deceived thinking you all you need to do is have faith in the Lord and you will be saved?

Jesus does save someone eternally the moment they believe in Him. Look at Roman's 10, John 3:16, 5:24, 3:36, 10:28, Roman's 5:8.

From this, after salvation being delivered, there will be fruit from the person being indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

Now... this doesn't mean they will always now be faithful, or never rebel etc..

If they get into sinful ways, they will be disciplined by Jesus, thru the Holy Spirit quickening and convicting. But.. He isn't going to leave them !

That is not love. That is a conditional, behavioral, tyrannical contract.

Your parents,if they are doing their job, will not leave you when you fail and rebel. They should not disown you. They would correct, and withdraw intimacy .. but not leave.

Gods love is stronger and deeper than this.