Calvinists & others

[persistent]

Once saved always saved posted by Andrew Morgan makes me wonder if I get bad teaching by listening to Charles Spurgeon who I thought was helpful. And I have talked with locals that are associated with the Assemblies of God and they are Spurgeon advocates. I also learned about Tim Keller and John Lennox from them. And I listened to Keller talk about God has to "touch us" in order to seek Him. And that is what happened to me when I was 15, but I didn't respond to it till I was about 65. So it took me 50 years to realize God had "called" me? But, John Lennox in an interview claims he doesn't know when he became a believer but says he heard someone preach something and he thought, "now I've got it", and then later on he hears someone preach something and he thinks, "Oh, now I've got it", and so on. For myself, I hang on to my experience when I was 15 and say I know God was "touching" me even though it took me 50 years to respond. I do know the truth is in the Bible and since it has not been my source book for living, I have no one to blame but rebellious self for refusing true understanding and wisdom. Better late than never.

 

[Eli1]

Okay, how about this!
Don’t treat Salvation as a technical instruction but just follow your already calling and feeling of love you have for God.

Don’t treat salvation as:

”Yesterday, at 2:53AM Eastern Standard Time, i was saved because i was submersed into water 2 inches. Not 3 inches, because if you do that you go to Hell. Only 2 inches Exact.
This document was notarized by my lawyer and was approved by my priest/pastor .
I can now do whatever i want because I fulfilled this technical requirement”.

How about instead, live your live like Christ and keep the peace and joy you have in Him and let that lead you happily in THIS life.
Don’t live your life for an event in the future. Live your life NOW with God.

 

[persistent]

Okay, how about this!
Don’t treat Salvation as a technical instruction but just follow your already calling and feeling of love you have for God.

Don’t treat salvation as:

”Yesterday, at 2:53AM Eastern Standard Time, i was saved because i was submersed into water 2 inches. Not 3 inches, because if you do that you go to Hell. Only 2 inches Exact.
This document was notarized by my lawyer and was approved by my priest/pastor .
I can now do whatever i want because I fulfilled this technical requirement”.

How about instead, live your live like Christ and keep the peace and joy you have in Him and let that lead you happily in THIS life.
Don’t live your life for an event in the future. Live your life NOW with God.

Exactly what you are saying not to do is what I see that the Roman Catholic church teaches. i.e. perform all these rituals and all is well. I grew up in Roman Catholicism and did all the rituals and people I know that are of that persuasion will say, 'so everything is just fine, now go and do your penance.' So you are correct in your don't do's.

 

[Eli1]

Exactly what you are saying not to do is what I see that the Roman Catholic church teaches. i.e. perform all these rituals and all is well. I grew up in Roman Catholicism and did all the rituals and people I know that are of that persuasion will say, 'so everything is just fine, now go and do your penance.' So you are correct in your don't do's.

Yes, i understand and I’m East Orthodox myself but our category or “membership” doesn’t define who we are in our hearts.
A lot of what i said exist mainly in Protestant and American churches actually as opposed to Catholics because Americans obsess with taking one verse from the Bible and dissecting its meaning.

You should get spiritual growth from the Bible, not technical instructions on how to fly a plane, make a phone call or get on the Internet.

 

[Dino246]

The thread title made me chuckle... that does rather sum up the Calvinist viewpoint, does it not?

 

[ResidentAlien]

Once saved always saved posted by Andrew Morgan makes me wonder if I get bad teaching by listening to Charles Spurgeon who I thought was helpful. And I have talked with locals that are associated with the Assemblies of God and they are Spurgeon advocates.

From what I know about Spurgeon he's solid. But just because someone mentions Spurgeon don't assume they too are solid. It's become fashionable for people who want to appear smarter than they are to drop Spurgeon's name.

I do know the truth is in the Bible and since it has not been my source book for living, I have no one to blame but rebellious self for refusing true understanding and wisdom. Better late than never.

Yes indeed, better late than never.

 

[persistent]

Yes, i understand and I’m East Orthodox myself but our category or “membership” doesn’t define who we are in our hearts.
A lot of what i said exist mainly in Protestant and American churches actually as opposed to Catholics because Americans obsess with taking one verse from the Bible and dissecting its meaning.

You should get spiritual growth from the Bible, not technical instructions on how to fly a plane, make a phone call or get on the Internet.

I understand what you are saying. Myself, I went to Roman Catholic grammar school and got very antagonistic toward religion in about the second grade. Maybe hearing some priest cuss out a nun made me think this is all some thing I don't like. Maybe there selling little packs of communion type wafers for $5 looked like a rip off to me. So we all experience different things and draw conclusions, right or wrong, based on those experiences. I didn't ever discuss any things with any one at that age and I know that today a lot of kids grow up the same way. Especially now with social media as the babysitter and all the other garbage that is passed off as "culture". The 4th chapter of Philippians tells us 'Whatsoever things are true and honest and just and pure and lovely and of good report and if there is any virtue or thing worthy of praise think on those things'. Check out what kids and there parents are thinking on. I don't see that our institutions any where in the world are really putting out a worthwhile message. I think there is a Bible verse that says something like 'they have all gone astray '. There is also a verse that talks about principalities and powers that are beyond just the physical.

 

[Eli1]

I understand what you are saying. Myself, I went to Roman Catholic grammar school and got very antagonistic toward religion in about the second grade. Maybe hearing some priest cuss out a nun made me think this is all some thing I don't like. Maybe there selling little packs of communion type wafers for $5 looked like a rip off to me. So we all experience different things and draw conclusions, right or wrong, based on those experiences. I didn't ever discuss any things with any one at that age and I know that today a lot of kids grow up the same way. Especially now with social media as the babysitter and all the other garbage that is passed off as "culture". The 4th chapter of Philippians tells us 'Whatsoever things are true and honest and just and pure and lovely and of good report and if there is any virtue or thing worthy of praise think on those things'. Check out what kids and there parents are thinking on. I don't see that our institutions any where in the world are really putting out a worthwhile message. I think there is a Bible verse that says something like 'they have all gone astray '. There is also a verse that talks about principalities and powers that are beyond just the physical.

Exactly !
You’re on a good path brother. There are things i don’t like about my church too but that doesn’t mean everyone there is bad or everyone in other churches is a bad or a “lost” person and all these kind of judgments we have for others whom we shouldn’t judge.
So don’t base your spiritual growth and walk in Christ by these names of people who you’ve mentioned in terms of Bible editions, authors etc.

The core message is always there in the Bible despite translations. I speak 3 languages and when i look at different Bibles, the core message is always there, so the translations are very accurate but don’t get caught up too much on interpretations because that would make you dive into details as opposed to living for Him now And getting the essence of the spiritual teaching of the Bible.
Don’t make the Bible an argument so you can “win” debates but make it Living Water for you and others daily through yourself In actions and deeds.

 

[persistent]

Exactly !
You’re on a good path brother. There are things i don’t like about my church too but that doesn’t mean everyone there is bad or everyone in other churches is a bad or a “lost” person and all these kind of judgments we have for others whom we shouldn’t judge.
So don’t base your spiritual growth and walk in Christ by these names of people who you’ve mentioned in terms of Bible editions, authors etc.

The core message is always there in the Bible despite translations. I speak 3 languages and when i look at different Bibles, the core message is always there, so the translations are very accurate but don’t get caught up too much on interpretations because that would make you dive into details as opposed to living for Him now And getting the essence of the spiritual teaching of the Bible.
Don’t make the Bible an argument so you can “win” debates but make it Living Water for you and others daily through yourself In actions and deeds.

I have a Bible published about 1910 in Lithuanian and sometime I look to see how they interpreted. Lithuanians supposedly didn't commit the language to any formality until some time in the 1970's. Then when I compare it to the Lithuanian, and Latvian, on bible hub things can really get confusing especially since the Lithuanian that I grew up with is a mix of different dialects with a smattering of Latvian. Luckily I also have some Lithuanian dictionaries from early 20th century. By chance is one of your languages Greek? And if so does it help in reading and can the ancient language easily be read by modern speakers. I saw in a small Greek restaurant a newspaper clipping about how Greek almost became the mother tongue of the U.S.. But like the metric system we blew it there too. Nothing biblical in this reply but God speed to you also brother.

 

[phil36]

Once saved always saved posted by Andrew Morgan makes me wonder if I get bad teaching by listening to Charles Spurgeon who I thought was helpful. And I have talked with locals that are associated with the Assemblies of God and they are Spurgeon advocates. I also learned about Tim Keller and John Lennox from them. And I listened to Keller talk about God has to "touch us" in order to seek Him. And that is what happened to me when I was 15, but I didn't respond to it till I was about 65. So it took me 50 years to realize God had "called" me? But, John Lennox in an interview claims he doesn't know when he became a believer but says he heard someone preach something and he thought, "now I've got it", and then later on he hears someone preach something and he thinks, "Oh, now I've got it", and so on. For myself, I hang on to my experience when I was 15 and say I know God was "touching" me even though it took me 50 years to respond. I do know the truth is in the Bible and since it has not been my source book for living, I have no one to blame but rebellious self for refusing true understanding and wisdom. Better late than never.

Thanks for sharing. I was around 30 when I came to faith. Although I could say that I had heard the gospel long before as my brother was a Christian.

Some others go to a meeting and hear the word and respond that evening. How that works I have no idea. That's God's business. As Christians we sow the seed.. Its the Holy Spirit that makes it take root.

The good thing is that we respond to God's 'touch' by faith.


Your title did give me a chuckle like Dino.. Because we could substitute that for anything.. You could say Pentecostal & others etc etc.

I would say read your bible and see if these things are true (whatever it is you are hearing or listening to). My second piece of advise is don't get your spiritual teaching from here. Anyone can be a 'google' theologian.

Find yourself a church locally that faithfully teaches the word week in week out and become a part of that body. ( you probably already have i don't know).

We have to remember that Spurgeon, Keller (whoever) etc, are not our Minister/Pastor. They are good to read and can be edifying but they are not our minister/pastor.

We need to use both our heads and our hearts. It's not head knowledge vs heart knowledge.. We need both.

Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will. Rom 12:2


to put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, 23 and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, 24 and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness. Eph 4:22-24.

Do you not see that whatever goes into the mouth passes into the stomach and is expelled? 18 But awhat comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person. 19 For out of the heart come bevil thoughts, cmurder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, dslander Mark 7:17ff. cf. Luke 6:45;

 

[persistent]

Thanks for sharing. I was around 30 when I came to faith. Although I could say that I had heard the gospel long before as my brother was a Christian.

Some others go to a meeting and hear the word and respond that evening. How that works I have no idea. That's God's business. As Christians we sow the seed.. Its the Holy Spirit that makes it take root.

The good thing is that we respond to God's 'touch' by faith.


Your title did give me a chuckle like Dino.. Because we could substitute that for anything.. You could say Pentecostal & others etc etc.

I would say read your bible and see if these things are true (whatever it is you are hearing or listening to). My second piece of advise is don't get your spiritual teaching from here. Anyone can be a 'google' theologian.

Find yourself a church locally that faithfully teaches the word week in week out and become a part of that body. ( you probably already have i don't know).

We have to remember that Spurgeon, Keller (whoever) etc, are not our Minister/Pastor. They are good to read and can be edifying but they are not our minister/pastor.

We need to use both our heads and our hearts. It's not head knowledge vs heart knowledge.. We need both.

Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will. Rom 12:2


to put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, 23 and to be renewed in the spiC

Thanks for your advice brother Phil36. Only recently have I been looking for a place to attend for worship and fellowship. Seriously considering Assemblies of God fellowship. I kind of limited myself by voluntarily quitting driving and may have to reconsider that decision. i.e. climate change conscious do gooder

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Once saved always saved posted by Andrew Morgan makes me wonder if I get bad teaching by listening to Charles Spurgeon who I thought was helpful. And I have talked with locals that are associated with the Assemblies of God and they are Spurgeon advocates. I also learned about Tim Keller and John Lennox from them. And I listened to Keller talk about God has to "touch us" in order to seek Him. And that is what happened to me when I was 15, but I didn't respond to it till I was about 65. So it took me 50 years to realize God had "called" me? But, John Lennox in an interview claims he doesn't know when he became a believer but says he heard someone preach something and he thought, "now I've got it", and then later on he hears someone preach something and he thinks, "Oh, now I've got it", and so on. For myself, I hang on to my experience when I was 15 and say I know God was "touching" me even though it took me 50 years to respond. I do know the truth is in the Bible and since it has not been my source book for living, I have no one to blame but rebellious self for refusing true understanding and wisdom. Better late than never.

this teacher will never let you down if you learn from him

“It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:45‬ ‭

This word will never leave you condemned

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭

and that word will never pass away

“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and it will never change

“Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭13:8‬ ‭

Ultimately God sent his teacher and said believe me and go tell the word the same his words are the basis for truth

“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Specifically when Jesus was baptized and began preaching the gospel , u til he died and rose . Those are the teachings of God that are forever and will be true forever

so when teachers are explaining contrary things from Jesus or saying “ Jesus words aren’t for you “ You know they are not of the truth but are of these who are trying to turn you away from the truth of Jesus Christ

“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭4:3-4‬ ‭

The danger of that is this

“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Ever notice how hostile some Bible teachers are towards the things Jesus taught ? Claiming that doesn’t apply to you who believe in Jesus ? It’s because of someone learn from Jesus they are going to know the false teachers are not teaching the truth they are actually teaching a deception even if thy h don’t realize it and it destroys faith in believers where as Jesus word builds faith in us

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

all we have to do is this

“All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:27-30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

at that point we can identify a good teacher and a false one because we are being filled with the truth

Many are scared of what he teaches because they think he is repeating Moses law of sin and death but he isn’t he’s teaching us Gods truth

 

[phil36]

Thanks for your advice brother Phil36. Only recently have I been looking for a place to attend for worship and fellowship. Seriously considering Assemblies of God fellowship. I kind of limited myself by voluntarily quitting driving and may have to reconsider that decision. i.e. climate change conscious do gooder

Hi persistent,

Yeah the main thing is to get involved in a. Local church that preaches the word faithfully. Try visiting more than one church if you can, this to what they say and teach. I am sure you will find a good local home. Don t forget to keep in prayer 👍. For the likes of. Me it was easy to fall out of the habit of going to church especially during covid.. Its when it's not there you miss it.

Regarding the car, I'm fortunate where I live everything is usually just five minutes walk away lol (smallish Town).

May be you could get a lift from someone, maybe even do a car pull/share.. That would cut expenses and fumes👍

 

[Nehemiah6]

Once saved always saved posted by Andrew Morgan makes me wonder if I get bad teaching by listening to Charles Spurgeon who I thought was helpful.

C. H. Spurgeon was a real anomaly. His sermons assumed that all of his listeners could be saved if they all would repent and believe. At the same time he was a Calvinist. At the same time he was a Baptist.

 

[persistent]

Hi persistent,

Yeah the main thing is to get involved in a. Local church that preaches the word faithfully. Try visiting more than one church if you can, this to what they say and teach. I am sure you will find a good local home. Don t forget to keep in prayer 👍. For the likes of. Me it was easy to fall out of the habit of going to church especially during covid.. Its when it's not there you miss it.

Regarding the car, I'm fortunate where I live everything is usually just five minutes walk away lol (smallish Town).

May be you could get a lift from someone, maybe even do a car pull/share.. That would cut expenses and fumes👍

Hey brother Phil36 I wanted to comment about Matthew Henry before. His commentaries are very good and also MacLaren is nice. I think Henry's father was a gardener for a king of England. Maybe grandfather. Regarding fumes. I was on facebook for about 1 day and posted that Jeremiah 16:18 "And first I will recompense their iniquity and their sin double; because they have defiled my land, they have filled mine inheritance with the carcases of their detestable and abominable things," carcases referred to automobiles. Facebook booted me.

 

[Eli1]

I have a Bible published about 1910 in Lithuanian and sometime I look to see how they interpreted. Lithuanians supposedly didn't commit the language to any formality until some time in the 1970's. Then when I compare it to the Lithuanian, and Latvian, on bible hub things can really get confusing especially since the Lithuanian that I grew up with is a mix of different dialects with a smattering of Latvian. Luckily I also have some Lithuanian dictionaries from early 20th century. By chance is one of your languages Greek? And if so does it help in reading and can the ancient language easily be read by modern speakers. I saw in a small Greek restaurant a newspaper clipping about how Greek almost became the mother tongue of the U.S.. But like the metric system we blew it there too. Nothing biblical in this reply but God speed to you also brother.

I’d like to say that what everyone is telling you here is great advice but I’m curious as to why would you find those Bibles published in different times confusing?
For example if we take the Italian language of north and south, they are completley different in terms of accent and idioms and the regions themselves have huge cultural differences. So i know exactly what you mean by different dialects.
Yet, if i were to pick an old Bible from Bari or Milano before WW2, the core messages and parables taught are pretty much the same. Yes, the language will definately be picked up as old or more “formal” but the core message is the same.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

Only recently have I been looking for a place to attend for worship and fellowship.

The Berean Bible Society, in Germantown, WI may be able to help with
a Grace Assembly in your area - email/website in last "link" below.
May The LORD Very RICHLY Encourage And Edify you in HIS Amazing Grace!

GRACE, Peace, And JOY...

 

[phil36]

C. H. Spurgeon was a real anomaly. His sermons assumed that all of his listeners could be saved if they all would repent and believe. At the same time he was a Calvinist. At the same time he was a Baptist.

Yeah, I don't see that as an anomoly. Calvinists would love to see all men come to repent and believe. Secondly the gospel call is universal. It goes to all men/women without distinction. So no anomoly there.

Secondly, there are two types of Baptist - general and particular. General are Arminian and Particular are reformed. From the earliest days of Baptists (app 1609/10) there where both Arminian and Reformed. Still to this day we see both groups of Baptists. So no anomoly there either.

 

[phil36]

The Berean Bible Society, in Germantown, WI may be able to help with
a Grace Assembly in your area - email/website in last "link" below.
May The LORD Very RICHLY Encourage And Edify you in HIS Amazing Grace!

GRACE, Peace, And JOY...

Stay clear of this heretical cult. Thats all I will say.

 

[phil36]

Hey brother Phil36 I wanted to comment about Matthew Henry before. His commentaries are very good and also MacLaren is nice. I think Henry's father was a gardener for a king of England. Maybe grandfather. Regarding fumes. I was on facebook for about 1 day and posted that Jeremiah 16:18 "And first I will recompense their iniquity and their sin double; because they have defiled my land, they have filled mine inheritance with the carcases of their detestable and abominable things," carcases referred to automobiles. Facebook booted me.

I didn't know that about Henry's father/grandfather.

I'm not sure why face book banned you.

But I would say that we won't come to truthful teaching if we read our very modern politics into scripture. We can make scripture say anything if we did that. I don't think the carcass' in Jeremiah refer to modern automobiles. You should check out what Matthew Henry says on the matter 👍

Idolatry was the main concern (detestable things) not automobiles.

You could argue better from creation that man has a duty of care to all creation. But automobiles in Jeremiah, thats reading into the text something that is not there.