Once saved always saved?

[FreeGrace2]

Grace was present when God created the universe.

Our differences are not about grace. It's about salvation and eternal security, which is a grace issue.

Grace is the reason for eternal security. No one can earn it (nor lose it) and no one deserves it. That is our difference

Grace is nothing more than a free gift.

Unbelievable statement. Grace is FAR MORE than "a free gift". What a ridiculous comment!

No one goes to heaven apart from God's unlimited grace.

 

[CorrectiveLens]

Grace was present when God created the universe.

Our differences are not about grace. It's about salvation and eternal security, which is a grace issue.

Grace is the reason for eternal security. No one can earn it (nor lose it) and no one deserves it. That is our difference

Unbelievable statement. Grace is FAR MORE than "a free gift". What a ridiculous comment!

No one goes to heaven apart from God's unlimited grace.

God's grace is granting repentance, forgiving sins through Jesus Christ, and perfecting us through His Holy Spirit. That is baptism in the name of the Father who grants repentance, baptism in the name of the Son when one believes and trusts in Jesus death for the remission of sins, and baptism in the name of the Holy Spirit who perfects us by filling our hearts with divine love so that our motivation for thinking and doing is Love for God and love for everyone else.

 

[soberxp]

2 Corinthians 3:6 NIV
6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

I just want to remind you, don't chew over words, study hard, and use them flexibly.

 

[FreeGrace2]

God's grace is granting repentance, forgiving sins through Jesus Christ, and perfecting us through His Holy Spirit.

Please don't even try to "define" the limits of God's grace. It is not limited by your opinion.

baptism in the name of the Holy Spirit who perfects us by filling our hearts with divine love so that our motivation for thinking and doing is Love for God and love for everyone else.

How do you explain Paul's commands:

do NOT grieve the Holy Spirit in Eph 4:30
do NOT quench the Holy Spirit in 1 Thess 5:19

Your comment about the baptism of the Holy Spirit sounds like it's all just automatic and will happen. So please explain the 2 commands above. Thanks.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

You can't just grab a verse and think you can knock down all I wrote, especially when Paul says For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Hebrew 10: 26, 27)

So, it's ok then for YOU to "grab TWO verses and knock down all I wrote," eh?

 

[CorrectiveLens]

Please don't even try to "define" the limits of God's grace. It is not limited by your opinion.


How do you explain Paul's commands:

do NOT grieve the Holy Spirit in Eph 4:30
do NOT quench the Holy Spirit in 1 Thess 5:19

Your comment about the baptism of the Holy Spirit sounds like it's all just automatic and will happen. So please explain the 2 commands above. Thanks.

The heart of man is the consciousness or spirit that all live human bodies possess from birth. This is the natural man with a sinful nature. When a person gets saved, he receives the Spirit of the Father and of the Son. So each true Christian has 3 spirits, that of the Father, that of the Son, and his own. In both verses Paul is simply explaining that when they allow the natural man to take over, they are grieving or quenching the Holy Spirit.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The heart of man is the consciousness or spirit that all live human bodies possess from birth.

I have a different view. Adam and the woman were created "in the image of God", referring to their body, soul, and spirit. When they rebelled and ate the fruit, they spiritually died "on that day", leaving them dichotomous, rather than trichotomous.

At saving faith, regeneration or being "made alive" or born again refers to the quickening of the human spirit which is dead at physical birth. So believers are returned to being trichotomous. What you describe is the soul.

This is the natural man with a sinful nature. When a person gets saved, he receives the Spirit of the Father and of the Son.

Actually, the believer receives the 3rd Person of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit, who dwells IN each believer.

So each true Christian has 3 spirits, that of the Father, that of the Son, and his own.

Nope. Every believer has 2 natures; their sinful human nature, received at birth, and the reborn human spirit, received at the new birth.

In both verses Paul is simply explaining that when they allow the natural man to take over, they are grieving or quenching the Holy Spirit.

This is correct. But this is what you had posted:

"baptism in the name of the Holy Spirit who perfects us by filling our hearts with divine love so that our motivation for thinking and doing is Love for God and love for everyone else."

You didn't answer my question:

"Your comment about the baptism of the Holy Spirit sounds like it's all just automatic and will happen. So please explain the 2 commands above. Thanks."

Your comment implies that those who have the indwelling Holy Spirit WILL have their hearts filled with divine love so that their motivation for thinking and doing is Love for God and love for everyone else.

Given the numerous problems in so many churches between and among believers, it sure isn't automatic.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Ok, let's go back to the Gospel. What did Jesus Christ say about going to hell? He said your eyes and hands can get you there.

"Mat 18:8 “If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the everlasting fire. 9And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire."

Why would Jesus say this if we knew we were "once saved, always saved" and that all that mattered was "a 30 Sec Sinner's Prayer". And that, after saying that, we could never cast ourselves into hell even if we wanted to, and refused His Salvation. If that were the case, these warnings, against lust, against greed etc as deadly sins are all meaningless and even false. So, if OSAS is true, Jesus spoke falsely. And if Jesus is Truth, and cannot speak falsely, as of course He is, then OSAS is not true.

Now, look at a later passage in the same chapter. Here, the servant was first forgiven by the Master (justified), but later lost.

26The servant therefore fell down before him, saying, ‘Master, have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’ 27Then the master of that servant was moved with compassion, released him, and forgave him the debt.

... 32Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.

This is a nearly Infallible Scriptural Proof that Initial Justification (or Forgiveness) is not the same as Final Salvation.

Mat 19:21 "Jesus saith to him: If thou wilt be perfect, go sell what thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. 22And when the young man had heard this word, he went away sad: for he had great possessions. 23Then Jesus said to his disciples: Amen, I say to you, that a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24And again I say to you: It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven. 25And when they had heard this, the disciples wondered much, saying: Who then can be saved? 26And Jesus beholding, said to them: With men this is impossible: but with God all things are possible."

Again, what business does Jesus have saying that a Rich Man shall hardly ever enter the kingdom of God, when greed (such as the Rich Man Dives in the Dives/Lazarus story had, and for which he was sent to hell) has nothing to do with Final Salvation, as OSASers teach? Should He not have said Rich and Poor alike can as easily be saved by a 30 sec Sinners Prayer? Of course, He did not say that, because it is not His Doctrine, and it is not the Truth. The Truth is what He taught.

The objections to the contrary do not prove anything. Regarding John 3, all it teaches is justification by grace through faith in Christ, which no one doubts, not OSAS. The Lord also said: "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall he condemned." (Mk 16:16) showing justification is normally complete in Baptism; thus "believeth and is baptized", not just believeth. Similarly, in John 6, He connected eating His Flesh and drinking His Blood to Eternal Life. This shows attaining Eternal Life is a process, and is connected normally, to Baptism, Communion, and the entire Christian Life. I earlier cited 3 passages that show eternal life is given by God after a life of perseverance in good works.

Finally, the John 10 passage does not prove OSAS. What it does prove is that those whom God has predestined for final salvation will never be lost. Just because God gives both Justification and Perseverance to those He has elected for this, does not prove that all who receive Justification also necessarily persevere. Many are truly justified but then fall away. Many passages make this clear, including the Lord's Parables, and also Heb 10 which says such draw back unto perdition.

Man is intent on reducing Christ's Doctrine to what he deems to be easy. But practicing True Christianity as Christ Himself taught it will be more rewarding and spiritually fulfilling in the long run. Pray, Fast, receive Baptism once, receive Communion regularly, do Good Works, offer sacrifices, give alms, love, forgive, evangelize, read the Word, grow in Grace and you will be given the Grace of Perseverance as a Gift of God in due time after persistence. That is the Doctrine of Christ.

God Bless.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Ok, let's go back to the Gospel. What did Jesus Christ say about going to hell? He said your eyes and hands can get you there.

"Mat 18:8 “If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the everlasting fire. 9And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire."

Why would Jesus say this if we knew we were "once saved, always saved" and that all that mattered was "a 30 Sec Sinner's Prayer". And that, after saying that, we could never cast ourselves into hell even if we wanted to, and refused His Salvation. If that were the case, these warnings, against lust, against greed etc as deadly sins are all meaningless and even false. So, if OSAS is true, Jesus spoke falsely. And if Jesus is Truth, and cannot speak falsely, as of course He is, then OSAS is not true.

Now, look at a later passage in the same chapter. Here, the servant was first forgiven by the Master (justified), but later lost.

26The servant therefore fell down before him, saying, ‘Master, have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’ 27Then the master of that servant was moved with compassion, released him, and forgave him the debt.

... 32Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.

This is a nearly Infallible Scriptural Proof that Initial Justification (or Forgiveness) is not the same as Final Salvation.

Mat 19:21 "Jesus saith to him: If thou wilt be perfect, go sell what thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. 22And when the young man had heard this word, he went away sad: for he had great possessions. 23Then Jesus said to his disciples: Amen, I say to you, that a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24And again I say to you: It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven. 25And when they had heard this, the disciples wondered much, saying: Who then can be saved? 26And Jesus beholding, said to them: With men this is impossible: but with God all things are possible."

Again, what business does Jesus have saying that a Rich Man shall hardly ever enter the kingdom of God, when greed (such as the Rich Man Dives in the Dives/Lazarus story had, and for which he was sent to hell) has nothing to do with Final Salvation, as OSASers teach? Should He not have said Rich and Poor alike can as easily be saved by a 30 sec Sinners Prayer? Of course, He did not say that, because it is not His Doctrine, and it is not the Truth. The Truth is what He taught.

The objections to the contrary do not prove anything. Regarding John 3, all it teaches is justification by grace through faith in Christ, which no one doubts, not OSAS. The Lord also said: "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall he condemned." (Mk 16:16) showing justification is normally complete in Baptism; thus "believeth and is baptized", not just believeth. Similarly, in John 6, He connected eating His Flesh and drinking His Blood to Eternal Life. This shows attaining Eternal Life is a process, and is connected normally, to Baptism, Communion, and the entire Christian Life. I earlier cited 3 passages that show eternal life is given by God after a life of perseverance in good works.

Finally, the John 10 passage does not prove OSAS. What it does prove is that those whom God has predestined for final salvation will never be lost. Just because God gives both Justification and Perseverance to those He has elected for this, does not prove that all who receive Justification also necessarily persevere. Many are truly justified but then fall away. Many passages make this clear, including the Lord's Parables, and also Heb 10 which says such draw back unto perdition.

Man is intent on reducing Christ's Doctrine to what he deems to be easy. But practicing True Christianity as Christ Himself taught it will be more rewarding and spiritually fulfilling in the long run. Pray, Fast, receive Baptism once, receive Communion regularly, do Good Works, offer sacrifices, give alms, love, forgive, evangelize, read the Word, grow in Grace and you will be given the Grace of Perseverance as a Gift of God in due time after persistence. That is the Doctrine of Christ.

God Bless.

Unfortunately, you still misunderstand Scripture. What you believe is a "works salvation" system, even if you don't recognize that.

At the very MOMENT of saving faith (believing in Jesus for salvation), the believer possesses eternal life. John 5:24.

And Jesus said He is the One who gives eternal life and the result is that they shall never perish. John 10:28

Your views do not line up with what Jesus taught. All the verses you have quoted do NOT say or even suggest that salvation can be lost. Or that there is more to salvation than simply believing in Jesus Christ for salvation.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

op: once saved, always saved?

More Biblical information, for Encouragement And Edification:
Secure Or Not Secure? That Is The Question!

GRACE, Peace, And JOY!

 

[gb9]

Grace was present when God created the universe.

Our differences are not about grace. It's about salvation and eternal security, which is a grace issue.

Grace is the reason for eternal security. No one can earn it (nor lose it) and no one deserves it. That is our difference

Unbelievable statement. Grace is FAR MORE than "a free gift". What a ridiculous comment!

No one goes to heaven apart from God's unlimited grace.

they really do not like the idea of free grace.

a prideful spirt that wants their salvation to be a joint project between them and Jesus can't get out of their own way....

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

None of this is relevant. The Bible SAYS when a person believes in Christ, they possess eternal life, in John 5:24. There is NOTHING you can say to change that FACT.

Second, Jesus SAID clearly that RECIPIENTS of eternal life SHALL NEVER PERISH, in John 10:28.

So, the biblical FACT is that once a person believes in Christ for salvation, THEY SHALL NEVER PERISH.

If such a person later changes their mind, for any reason, they STILL POSSESS eternal life AND SHALL NEVER PERISH.

These are Jesus' own words. And you have the audacity to disagree with Jesus.

NO, the Bible does not say, ONCE YOU BELIEVE YOU CAN STOP BELIEVING AND STILL GO TO HEAVEN!

show me where this is located?

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Matt 7: 13-14 Enter in at the narrow gate; for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be who go in that way; Because narrow is the gate, and hard is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
John 17: 2 As thou hast given Him power over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given Him.
Matt 20: 16 So the last shall be first, and the first last; for many are called, but few are chosen.

The words "many" and "few" imply " not all". In the Father's perfect kingdom we are all guilty of sin and beccause of His perfect justice are all condemned to eternal punishment. None of us are worthy of salvation. If He condemns everyone, then He would be merciless. If He saves everyone, then there will be lawlessness and no justice in heaven. His only choice is to display His mercy by saving a few.

knowing only a few Condemned Humans full of Sin will Follow God does not mean He still did not die for the entire WORLD. because He did say, He was sent to DIE for the WORLD!

 

[AndrewMorgan]

knowing only a few Condemned Humans full of Sin will Follow God does not mean He still did not die for the entire WORLD. because He did say, He was sent to DIE for the WORLD!

One thing that comes up in all this is the issue of whether one lose salvation.
I've used this hypothetical account before, but I think it's appropriate to re-state it.
Suppose there's a man who's got a bad attitude and hates hearing that he's a sinner and beholden to God. Although he hates the gospel, he thinks "I bet this is true. This is just the kind of mixed-up thing that would be true in this life."
So he believes it, in the sense that he believes that Jesus is the Savior and he's come to save believers from God's wrath. However, he had no commitment to the cause. Far from it - he sets about on a life of serious sin. He encourages others to do the same. Believing he can do what he wants with impunity, he even inwardly laughs at God for this "loophole" he's found.
On his deathbed, he curses God from the heart as he's done a thousand times before and then dies.
I ask anyone who cares to answer - Is this man saved? I'd like a reason either way.

 

[Snacks]

Ok, let's go back to the Gospel. What did Jesus Christ say about going to hell? He said your eyes and hands can get you there.

"Mat 18:8 “If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the everlasting fire. 9And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire."

Why would Jesus say this if we knew we were "once saved, always saved" and that all that mattered was "a 30 Sec Sinner's Prayer". And that, after saying that, we could never cast ourselves into hell even if we wanted to, and refused His Salvation. If that were the case, these warnings, against lust, against greed etc as deadly sins are all meaningless and even false. So, if OSAS is true, Jesus spoke falsely. And if Jesus is Truth, and cannot speak falsely, as of course He is, then OSAS is not true.

Now, look at a later passage in the same chapter. Here, the servant was first forgiven by the Master (justified), but later lost.

26The servant therefore fell down before him, saying, ‘Master, have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’ 27Then the master of that servant was moved with compassion, released him, and forgave him the debt.

... 32Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.

This is a nearly Infallible Scriptural Proof that Initial Justification (or Forgiveness) is not the same as Final Salvation.

Mat 19:21 "Jesus saith to him: If thou wilt be perfect, go sell what thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. 22And when the young man had heard this word, he went away sad: for he had great possessions. 23Then Jesus said to his disciples: Amen, I say to you, that a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24And again I say to you: It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven. 25And when they had heard this, the disciples wondered much, saying: Who then can be saved? 26And Jesus beholding, said to them: With men this is impossible: but with God all things are possible."

Again, what business does Jesus have saying that a Rich Man shall hardly ever enter the kingdom of God, when greed (such as the Rich Man Dives in the Dives/Lazarus story had, and for which he was sent to hell) has nothing to do with Final Salvation, as OSASers teach? Should He not have said Rich and Poor alike can as easily be saved by a 30 sec Sinners Prayer? Of course, He did not say that, because it is not His Doctrine, and it is not the Truth. The Truth is what He taught.

The objections to the contrary do not prove anything. Regarding John 3, all it teaches is justification by grace through faith in Christ, which no one doubts, not OSAS. The Lord also said: "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall he condemned." (Mk 16:16) showing justification is normally complete in Baptism; thus "believeth and is baptized", not just believeth. Similarly, in John 6, He connected eating His Flesh and drinking His Blood to Eternal Life. This shows attaining Eternal Life is a process, and is connected normally, to Baptism, Communion, and the entire Christian Life. I earlier cited 3 passages that show eternal life is given by God after a life of perseverance in good works.

Finally, the John 10 passage does not prove OSAS. What it does prove is that those whom God has predestined for final salvation will never be lost. Just because God gives both Justification and Perseverance to those He has elected for this, does not prove that all who receive Justification also necessarily persevere. Many are truly justified but then fall away. Many passages make this clear, including the Lord's Parables, and also Heb 10 which says such draw back unto perdition.

Man is intent on reducing Christ's Doctrine to what he deems to be easy. But practicing True Christianity as Christ Himself taught it will be more rewarding and spiritually fulfilling in the long run. Pray, Fast, receive Baptism once, receive Communion regularly, do Good Works, offer sacrifices, give alms, love, forgive, evangelize, read the Word, grow in Grace and you will be given the Grace of Perseverance as a Gift of God in due time after persistence. That is the Doctrine of Christ.

God Bless.

Cutting off our arm or plucking out an eye is a metaphor whereby Jesus is telling us to put away old beliefs and placing our faith in Him.

Question: How long have you been saving yourself? I ask because obviously you don’t believe Jesus can do it by Himself.

 

[AndrewMorgan]

Cutting off our arm or plucking out an eye is a metaphor whereby Jesus is telling us to put away old beliefs and placing our faith in Him.

I tend to agree, although I have heard it taken to be literal.
I tend to think it means "If even something close to your core (a deeply held belief, or something you deeply care about, the importance of which is indicated by the strength of the metaphor used) is marring your adherence to following God's path correctly, you need to get rid of it.".

 

[Thewatchman]

Just who is saved and how do we know that we are saved according to your standards?

Matthew 7:21

English Standard Version
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Berean Standard Bible
Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

King James Bible
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.



If not everyone who says Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom, but he that doeth the will of my Father.



Verse 22.

English Standard Version
On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’

Berean Standard Bible
Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’
King James Bible
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?


If many will thank that they are doing Gods will, they thank they are saved just because they were told to say the sinners prayer and get baptized, get emotional speak mum bo jumbo, went to some tent revival saw someone run around the tent act crazy, go to a church see someone lay hands on a person and they fall out. They thank they are saved. They thank those are wonderful works.

IF THEY ARE REAL THEN THEY ARE WONDERFUL WORKS.



Verse 23.

English Standard Version
And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Berean Standard Bible
Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’

King James Bible
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


Some of the saddest words people can here “depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”



Verse 24.

English Standard Version
“Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
Berean Standard Bible
Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.

New King James Version
“Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock:



You need to be a doer as well as a hearer of the word.

For space I am just going to use the KJV for the next set of verses

2nd Corinthians 11

1Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. 2For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.



Paul is taking care of the church in Corinth like a father loves and cares for his unmarried daughter.(Do you have a pastor like that?) to home he has promised her hand in marriage to Christ but might get beguiled by Satan as Eve did. (Beguiled this word only appears in this verse in the New Testament #1818 to seduce wholly) He wants to present the church to Christ a a virgin bride. Why is he worried about this?



Verses 12-15

12But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. 13For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Yes Satan can make himself look like a act like an angle of light and his workers can transform themselves into ministers of light and lead astray people that are not fully grounded in the word.

People that would believe once you are saved you are always saved or in the rapture . . .

Out of space but lets talk. Reason together as God would say.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
None of this is relevant. The Bible SAYS when a person believes in Christ, they possess eternal life, in John 5:24. There is NOTHING you can say to change that FACT.

Second, Jesus SAID clearly that RECIPIENTS of eternal life SHALL NEVER PERISH, in John 10:28.

So, the biblical FACT is that once a person believes in Christ for salvation, THEY SHALL NEVER PERISH.

If such a person later changes their mind, for any reason, they STILL POSSESS eternal life AND SHALL NEVER PERISH.

These are Jesus' own words. And you have the audacity to disagree with Jesus.

NO, the Bible does not say, ONCE YOU BELIEVE YOU CAN STOP BELIEVING AND STILL GO TO HEAVEN!

Wow. You DO have the audacity to disagree with Jesus.

show me where this is located?

I did. And I copied my proof above.

If you disagree with Jn 5:24 teaching that believing results in possessing eternal life, please explain.
If you disagree with Jn 10:28 teaching that recipients of eternal life shall never perish, please explain.

I'll be curious as to where your dysfunction in reading English lies.

Or, are you just willfully refusing to understand Jn 5:24 and 10:28??

 

[FreeGrace2]

One thing that comes up in all this is the issue of whether one lose salvation.
I've used this hypothetical account before, but I think it's appropriate to re-state it.
Suppose there's a man who's got a bad attitude and hates hearing that he's a sinner and beholden to God. Although he hates the gospel, he thinks "I bet this is true. This is just the kind of mixed-up thing that would be true in this life."
So he believes it, in the sense that he believes that Jesus is the Savior and he's come to save believers from God's wrath. However, he had no commitment to the cause. Far from it - he sets about on a life of serious sin. He encourages others to do the same. Believing he can do what he wants with impunity, he even inwardly laughs at God for this "loophole" he's found.
On his deathbed, he curses God from the heart as he's done a thousand times before and then dies.
I ask anyone who cares to answer - Is this man saved? I'd like a reason either way.

In this case, this person never really believed the gospel. The closest he got was "I BET this is true". Of course it's true that anyone who places their trust alone in Christ's work alone will be saved eternally. But did this idiot? Apparently not.

So, he can agree that the gospel message is true and yet, NOT believe it. iow, until he actually believes in Jesus Christ for salvation, he won't get it.

The answer is clearly stated in the Bible. The only issue is whether a person will believe what Jesus said. Your idiot example did not believe.

NEVER PERISH. NEVER PERISH. NEVER PERISH. NEVER PERISH. NEVER PERISH.

It is people who don't understand or maybe even hate the idea of GRACE that will fight this.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

FreeGrace2 said:
None of this is relevant. The Bible SAYS when a person believes in Christ, they possess eternal life, in John 5:24. There is NOTHING you can say to change that FACT.

Second, Jesus SAID clearly that RECIPIENTS of eternal life SHALL NEVER PERISH, in John 10:28.

So, the biblical FACT is that once a person believes in Christ for salvation, THEY SHALL NEVER PERISH.

If such a person later changes their mind, for any reason, they STILL POSSESS eternal life AND SHALL NEVER PERISH.

These are Jesus' own words. And you have the audacity to disagree with Jesus.

Wow. You DO have the audacity to disagree with Jesus.


I did. And I copied my proof above.

If you disagree with Jn 5:24 teaching that believing results in possessing eternal life, please explain.
If you disagree with Jn 10:28 teaching that recipients of eternal life shall never perish, please explain.

I'll be curious as to where your dysfunction in reading English lies.

Or, are you just willfully refusing to understand Jn 5:24 and 10:28??

Jesus gave us the Lord's Prayer.
within this Prayer, we are to ask for forgiveness and to FORGIVE those who've sinned against us.

the Prayer is so specific it shows us in Verse 14 “For if you forgive others their transgressions, your heavenly Father [[((will also forgive you))]].

so are you saying if a person does not forgive others, and the Father won't forgive their sins until they forgive others, He's still granting them Salvation?