Justification by faith alone, anathema?
- Thread starter phil36
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Don't know much about Rome (don't care much about Rome, either.)
Bible is clear about all this. We come by faith, and we live by faith. Today's works are a product of the Spirit working within and through us and have no part in saving us. The saving works were accomplished by Jesus 2000 years ago.
Ephesians 2
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Works are an effect of salvation, not a cause of it.
Bible is clear about all this. We come by faith, and we live by faith. Today's works are a product of the Spirit working within and through us and have no part in saving us. The saving works were accomplished by Jesus 2000 years ago.
Ephesians 2
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Works are an effect of salvation, not a cause of it.
-
3
-
3
- Show all
It was in reaction to the Protestant Reformation. The Council of Trent anathematized a lot of things in reaction to the Reformation.
Catholic dogma teaches that grace is imparted through the sacraments: baptism, the so-called eucharist, etc. It also teaches that a person can purchase grace and forgiveness through indulgences. Luther upset the apple cart by proclaiming the true gospel: that we're justified by grace through faith alone.
Catholic dogma teaches that grace is imparted through the sacraments: baptism, the so-called eucharist, etc. It also teaches that a person can purchase grace and forgiveness through indulgences. Luther upset the apple cart by proclaiming the true gospel: that we're justified by grace through faith alone.
-
2
-
1
- Show all
While faith is really important to our salvation, no where did Jesus or the Apostles teach that we are saved by 'Faith Alone'. The only place in the Bible where 'Faith Alone' is mentioned is in the book of James, Cha 2, "So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead. " James Cha 2 makes it clear that faith alone will not save us, "Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works."
We have faith, hope, and charity/love. You can have all the faith in the world, but without love you are just a clanging symbol.
Actually, saved through faith is Biblical, but saved by 'Faith Alone' is not biblical.
We have faith, hope, and charity/love. You can have all the faith in the world, but without love you are just a clanging symbol.
Actually, saved through faith is Biblical, but saved by 'Faith Alone' is not biblical.
-
3
-
1
- Show all
But the simple FACT is that 95% if what the world/church CALLS FATIH, isn't "Faith" at all according to the Biblical definition thereof.
Luther, and Melancthon at the time, went on to state that IT IS FAITH ALONE THAT SAVES, but - the FAITH that saves, will never be "alone".
SO if what you call "FAITH" produces of it's intrinsic nature NOTHING, then you have no idea what FAITH even is.
Luther, and Melancthon at the time, went on to state that IT IS FAITH ALONE THAT SAVES, but - the FAITH that saves, will never be "alone".
SO if what you call "FAITH" produces of it's intrinsic nature NOTHING, then you have no idea what FAITH even is.
-
1
- Show all
Our works don't contribute one iota to our salvation. Saving grace is imparted by our faith in the finished work of Christ. Sure, faith produces good works but the works don't save us, our faith does. A Catholic can receive "salvation" by being baptized; but they have to keep their salvation by going to mass, performing good works and probably a whole host of other things.
A Catholic can go to mass and confession and come away squeaky clean, then commit a sin and die before they can get to confession and wind up in purgatory. That's what "last rites" are all about. A Catholic has no real assurance at any given time if they'll end up in heaven, hell or purgatory. But one who is saved by faith doesn't have to worry about all that. They may commit a sin before they go to bed and die in their sleep; but they won't go to hell or purgatory for that sin. We can have complete assurance, even if our works aren't perfect because our salvation isn't dependent on our works.
A Catholic can go to mass and confession and come away squeaky clean, then commit a sin and die before they can get to confession and wind up in purgatory. That's what "last rites" are all about. A Catholic has no real assurance at any given time if they'll end up in heaven, hell or purgatory. But one who is saved by faith doesn't have to worry about all that. They may commit a sin before they go to bed and die in their sleep; but they won't go to hell or purgatory for that sin. We can have complete assurance, even if our works aren't perfect because our salvation isn't dependent on our works.
-
2
-
1
- Show all
Hello Bob-Carabbio, I'm not saying that at all, but what I'm saying is: James 2:1 - 2:26 (kingjamesbibleonline.org)
Walter
Walter
Again for the millionth time.. James' faith without works is dead'... don't put the verse on it's own!
Context around this is acts of service in response to previously being converted. Abraham wasn't eternally saved when he offered up his son Isaac.. he was saved by belief in God earlier. The others in this weren't saved by their acts of service. It isn't that they WILL do good works... it's that they are choosing to out of love back to the freedom giver.
Context around this is acts of service in response to previously being converted. Abraham wasn't eternally saved when he offered up his son Isaac.. he was saved by belief in God earlier. The others in this weren't saved by their acts of service. It isn't that they WILL do good works... it's that they are choosing to out of love back to the freedom giver.
James Scriptures differs from your perspective, "
ames Cha 2 makes it clear that faith alone will not save us, "Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works."
ames Cha 2 makes it clear that faith alone will not save us, "Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works."
-
1
-
1
- Show all
That's a good point.
Also, I think some people get the idea from James 2:24, "You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only," that works justify. But that's not what it means. It means faith that doesn't produce good works can't justify. In the example James uses, he says one person says he has faith but no works. Then he says that kind of faith isn't real faith. Any way you look at it, it's faith that justifies, not works. If you say works can justify, that goes against every other teaching of the good news. It's not good news if it means we have to earn our own way.
Also, I think some people get the idea from James 2:24, "You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only," that works justify. But that's not what it means. It means faith that doesn't produce good works can't justify. In the example James uses, he says one person says he has faith but no works. Then he says that kind of faith isn't real faith. Any way you look at it, it's faith that justifies, not works. If you say works can justify, that goes against every other teaching of the good news. It's not good news if it means we have to earn our own way.
-
1
- Show all
when you use the term by faith it means by this
“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
Romans 10:17 KJV
If a believer is able to hear what Gods saying they are going to begin to have faith we’re saved by hearing and believing the gospel to do that is going to change our thinking and our actions change through this process of our thinking about God changing over to what he said on the gospel when he came
See this is part of bekng saved by faith to hear and accept what we’re being taught
“that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; ( repentance )
and be renewed in the spirit of your mind; ( that’s what hearing God word the gospel is for )
and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”( that’s the result of doing that)
Ephesians 4:22-24
the power of the gospel to change us inwardly and then that changing us outwardly in our deeds , is terribly overlooked and severely underestimated in the church hearing and accepting thy gospel is the power of God to save us by faith
“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.”
Romans 1:16
Jesus word creates bekievers just as his word created all thkngs in the beginning now his word in thy gospel can remake us re create us in his image if we set our hearts on the gospel salvstion by faith is the result but it means we have to accept what he’s teaching us to accept
repentance and remission of sins obedience to God more and more as we mature faith isn’t a one time thing it is living and active it’s like a seed inside our heart when we hear the gospel seeds are set in the soils of our heart and mind but faith does t remain an inactive seed ot roots and it sprouts d it grows and it matures if we take care of it and water and weed and use the care of a gardener
“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
Romans 10:17 KJV
If a believer is able to hear what Gods saying they are going to begin to have faith we’re saved by hearing and believing the gospel to do that is going to change our thinking and our actions change through this process of our thinking about God changing over to what he said on the gospel when he came
See this is part of bekng saved by faith to hear and accept what we’re being taught
“that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; ( repentance )
and be renewed in the spirit of your mind; ( that’s what hearing God word the gospel is for )
and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”( that’s the result of doing that)
Ephesians 4:22-24
the power of the gospel to change us inwardly and then that changing us outwardly in our deeds , is terribly overlooked and severely underestimated in the church hearing and accepting thy gospel is the power of God to save us by faith
“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.”
Romans 1:16
Jesus word creates bekievers just as his word created all thkngs in the beginning now his word in thy gospel can remake us re create us in his image if we set our hearts on the gospel salvstion by faith is the result but it means we have to accept what he’s teaching us to accept
repentance and remission of sins obedience to God more and more as we mature faith isn’t a one time thing it is living and active it’s like a seed inside our heart when we hear the gospel seeds are set in the soils of our heart and mind but faith does t remain an inactive seed ot roots and it sprouts d it grows and it matures if we take care of it and water and weed and use the care of a gardener
-
2
- Show all
Yea..
Their is acts of service approved unto God.. that make a 'just ' faith. A 'justified ' work.
This is separate from initial belief in Jesus as God and Saviour.
Initial salvation isn't a commitment to good works.. or turning from sin through self effort.. it's belief in Jesus first.. knowing you can't do good works or turn from sin thru self effort.
Then after salvation.. being justified freely by grace.. we are then free to commit to good works for Jesus and turn from sin being already forgiven.
Their is acts of service approved unto God.. that make a 'just ' faith. A 'justified ' work.
This is separate from initial belief in Jesus as God and Saviour.
Initial salvation isn't a commitment to good works.. or turning from sin through self effort.. it's belief in Jesus first.. knowing you can't do good works or turn from sin thru self effort.
Then after salvation.. being justified freely by grace.. we are then free to commit to good works for Jesus and turn from sin being already forgiven.
Every Christian should try and understand the church of Rome and what it teaches. For example. had Billy Graham spent some time studying the Council of Trent, he would never have joined hands with the Catholic Church in his evangelistic crusades. This caused a lot of spiritual confusion. The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) continues to make reference to the Council of Trent in establishing its teachings (which are generally false).
-
1
- Show all