Once saved always saved?

[Thewatchman]

I forgot something. There is one unforgivable sin. It can only be commited by one of Gods elect. That would be someone God as brought forth at the time spoken of in Luke 21
Luke 21:10-19

Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: 11And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.

12But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake. 13And it shall turn to you for a testimony. 14Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: 15For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist. 16And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. 17And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake. 18But there shall not an hair of your head perish. 19In your patience possess ye your souls.

This is when they bring you up before Satin and you are to allow the Holy Spirit to speak to do the talking using you to put down the enemy. If you try to take over and do the speaking your self you would be taking the place of God and just as that sin caused Satan to fall and be sentenced to death so would you. Do I thank that is going to happen; No I do not . As this passage goes on to say “18.There hall not an hair of your head perish. 19 In your patience possess ye your souls. Your souls that means that there will be more than 1 it could be 100 or 1,000 we do not know

 

[LoveBrokeThru]

I forgot something. There is one unforgivable sin. It can only be commited by one of Gods elect.

The unpardonable sin can't be committed by a Born Again Christian, as to commit this sin, is to have rejected Christ all you life and die, never being born again.

 

[Dirtman]

Please elaborate

While the bible does speak of security and preservation, it also warns of apostasy. Then you have those who call Jesus lord Lord but he say go away. I know folks like to dismiss the fact that they know Jesus enough to say Lord Lord and to do works in his name.

 

[Thewatchman]

The unpardonable sin can't be committed by a Born Again Christian, as to commit this sin, is to have rejected Christ all you life and die, never being born again.

It should not be and I do not thank any of God people that know and love the Lord would. That is the only unforgivable sin

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Looks like it’s the bi- annual time to list the 101 Biblical proofs of Eternal Securfir the born again child of God:

1. The believer has everlasting or eternal life.

John 5:24: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

John 10:28: “And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”

2. The believer is born of God.

John 1:12-13: “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”

3. Christ will raise every believer up at the last day.

John 6:44-47: “No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, and they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me hath everlasting life.”

4. The believer has already passed from death unto life.

John 5:24: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

5. The believer is not the object of God’s wrath.

John 3:36: “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”

6. Believer are God’s sheep.

John 10:2-4: “But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.”

7. The believer will not listen to nor follow a stranger, but will flee from him.

John 10:5: “And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.” (The stranger here is Satan and his false teachers.)

8. The believer is known of God.

John 10:14: “I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.”

9. The believer listens to the voice of the shepherd.

John 10:27: “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.”

10. The believer is in Christ’s hand and cannot be plucked out.

John 10:28: “And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”

11. The believer is in the Father’s hand and cannot be plucked out.

John 10:29: “My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.”

12. The shepherd is charged with the responsibility of keeping the sheep.

John 10:11-14: “I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep. I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.”

13. The believer is not condemned.

John 3:18: “He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”

14. The believer shall never thirst.

John 4:14: “But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.”

15. The believer will keep Christ’s commandments.

John 14:23: “Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.”

16. The believer is secure because of Christ’s prayer.

John 17:9-12: “I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee, Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.”

17. The believer shall never die.

John 11:26: “And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?”

18. The believer to be kept from the evil.

John 17:15: “I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.”

Jesus prays that the believer may be kept from the Devil. Was this prayer answered?

19. The believer to be with Christ in glory.

John 17:24: “Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.”

20. The believer shall never hunger.

John 6:35: “And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.”

21. The believer will in no wise be cast out (Not under any circumstance).

John 6:37: “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.”

22. Christ will not lose a single believer.

John 6:39: “And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.”

23. Christ will raise up the believer at the last day.

John 6:38-40: “For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”

24. Whosoever eats the bread of life shall never die.

John 6:51: “I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

25. Because the Holy Spirit abides in the believer forever.

John 14:16-17: “And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever; even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.”

26. Because it is the Father’s will that Christ should lose nothing.

John 6:39: “And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.”

27. Because one cannot be unborn.

John 3:5: “Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”

28. The believer will follow Christ.

John 10:27: “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.” Following Christ, can one be lost? Have we any right to add to God’s Word by inserting if” to the passage?

29. The believers continue with God.

1 John 2:19: “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.”

30. Because it is the believer’s faith that overcomes the world.

1 John 5:4: “For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.”

I noticed the Believer is key to every point. But I see nothing about the apostate being mentioned having the same promises.

 

[Runningman]

I noticed the Believer is key to every point. But I see nothing about the apostate being mentioned having the same promises.

A very key and astute observation.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I forgot something. There is one unforgivable sin. It can only be commited by one of Gods elect.

The only unforgivable sin was during Jesus' time on earth. He performed miracles in the power of the Holy Spirit and the very negative Jews claimed He was performing miracles in the power of Satan.

That sin was unforgivable because they were so negative even miracles didn't move them.

It is impossible today to commit an unforgivable sin.

 

[PennEd]

I noticed the Believer is key to every point. But I see nothing about the apostate being mentioned having the same promises.

Yes. I believe you are correct.

Nowhere in Scripture are apostates said be saved.

Those immense amount of verses I posted pertain to those that have been born again, and are children of God.

Apostates were NEVER born again.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Yes. I believe you are correct.

Nowhere in Scripture are apostates said be saved.

Those immense amount of verses I posted pertain to those that have been born again, and are children of God.

Apostates were NEVER born again.

when we are born, we do not know God out of ignorance and lack of knowledge.
the apostate has been informed, believed for a moment, then chose to walk away.
apostate by meaning indicates knowledge of what is being rejected.
there's a difference between those who are blind and with those who have seen then walked away.

 

[Thewatchman]

I noticed the Believer is key to every point. But I see nothing about the apostate being mentioned having the same promises.

#1 dictionary definition

noun

• 1.a person who renounces a religious or political belief or principle:​
• "after fifty years as an apostate he returned to the faith"​

adjective



#2 from the Strong's Concordance

• 1.abandoning a religious or political belief or principle:​

The word "apostasy" comes from the Greek apostasia, which is translated "falling away" in 2 Thessalonians 2:3. The word is closely related to the Greek word for "divorce." Apostates are those who fall away from the true faith, abandoning what they formerly professed to believe.

The reason you do not here anything about the apostate is because he has turned and walked away from God. He has the opportunity to return as definition #1 shows.



The prodigal son Luke 15 had he chosen to stay with the pigs (in his sin) and not return to his father (God, Jesus) would he have been taken back like he was?



Luke 15:10

Berean Standard Bible
In the same way, I tell you, there is joy in the presence of God’s angels over one sinner who repents.”

Berean Literal Bible
Thus I say to you, there is joy before the angels of God over one sinner repenting."

King James Bible
Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.



Over one sinner who repents. The apostate is a sinner. Sin separates us from God so when he returns the angles will rejoice. The angles rejoice when one first gets saved.

More to come

98. God allows His children to suffer loss of rewards in Heaven rather than exiling them to Hell.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15: "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

99. God allows His children to suffer shame at His coming rather than exiling them to Hell.

1 John 2:28: "And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming."

100. Because God is greater than our heart.

1 John 3:20: "For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things."

101. God is able to save and keep us.

2 Timothy 1:12: "... I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day."

Jude 1:24: "Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, to the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen."

The verse or verses that follow are in no order. They will all be about the great apostate and the fact that a person can choose to get saved and then backslide

Matthew 24:9 &10

Verse 9

New International Version
“Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me.
English Standard Version
“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name’s sake.
Berean Standard Bible
Then they will deliver you over to be persecuted and killed, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.
King James Bible
Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.



Verse 10

New International Version
At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other,
English Standard Version
And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another.

Berean Standard Bible
At that time many will fall away and will betray and hate one another,
King James Bible
And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.



What is this Matthew 24 all about?

1And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

The disciples want to know about the 2nd coming. What is the very first words out of Jesus mouth “ Take head than NO MAN ( that would be me, any person in this chat room, your pastor, Bible teacher, the person that writes your quarterly anyone You need to learn to test the fruit, make sure you pick the fruit from the right tree) deceive you!

5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Does it say a few? No Many, many preachers, teachers ,prophets … and what do they want to do? Deceive 2 or 3 of you NO as many as they can.

Verses 6&7 give us some more sings of the second coming

Then we get verses 9-14

9Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

What does verse 13 say Everyone that is saved does not have to worry. NO! He that endures to the end will be saved.



2nd Corinthians 11

12But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.

12 I want to stop those that say they have the same message as myself and those that work with me. They are lairs and want to lead you away. What are they?

13For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

That explains itself they are deceitful workers, false apostles, trying to make themselve into apostles of Christ

Remember these are not my words but Paul's

14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15Therefore it isno great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Verses 14 &15 this is a mouth-full Do you have some transformed minisiters in your church, fellowship ect. I do not know I am not there it is your job to check them out and make sure they are feeding you the right fruit.

 

[Thewatchman]

Yes. I believe you are correct.

Nowhere in Scripture are apostates said be saved.

Those immense amount of verses I posted pertain to those that have been born again, and are children of God.

Apostates were NEVER born again.

How can you be an apostate before you are born again if you hve to be a believer in Jesus to become an apostate?

 

[Thewatchman]

Yes. I believe you are correct.

Nowhere in Scripture are apostates said be saved.

Those immense amount of verses I posted pertain to those that have been born again, and are children of God.

Apostates were NEVER born again.

We get a 2 for 1 here Paul says that once saved always saved is not true and the rapture is not true

2nd Thessalonians 2

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.



I understand that there has been a misunderstanding about what I wrote in my first letter. So I want to clear that up. I don't want you to be troubled in any way, not in your bind(belief) nor your spirit or word(false teaching) nor by my first letter to you and the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and when it is going to happen.



3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.



Let no man, that would be myself (Paul) any body that says they are working with me or anyone claiming to come with something different to say than I am going to tell you right now.

That Day: What is that day? The Day Of The Lord; the millennium; Who long is a day with the Lord? A thousand years or a millennium. What is going to happen first? There be a falling away! A falling away of what? Following Jesus. And then what? THE RAPTURE No sorry. The man of sin be relieved, the son of perdition; Who is ? Satan and just what is he going to do when he comes?



4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

He is going to oppose and exalt himself above all that is called God. He did it once before when He was the Cherubim that covereth; He once protected the mercy seat the throne of God. Till he got proud and wanted to set in it. He is going to set in the temple of God proclaiming to be God. If you have not seen that (I can tell you it has not happened) Jesus has not returned.



Yes that place still stands today God did not let some little roman general destroy what he set up from the time of Abraham till today and for all eternity. Abraham went to Moriah to sacrifice Isaac. Moriah was also the sight of the first temple. In 957 B.C. the First Temple was built by Solomon on Mt. Moriah ( 2 Chron. 3:1 ). It was built according to the divine plans given to his father David ( 1 Chronicles 22:5-6; 28:11-12, 19 ), and the glory of God filled it ( 1 Kings 8:10-11 ). Today it houses (The dome of the rock) the foundation stone of that Muslim temple(according to historians) is the alter that Abraham made his first sacrifice to God on. Do you not thank that God can use that;and who knows maybe Israel will take it back before all is said and done.

 

[PennEd]

We get a 2 for 1 here Paul says that once saved always saved is not true and the rapture is not true

2nd Thessalonians 2

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.



I understand that there has been a misunderstanding about what I wrote in my first letter. So I want to clear that up. I don't want you to be troubled in any way, not in your bind(belief) nor your spirit or word(false teaching) nor by my first letter to you and the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and when it is going to happen.



3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.



Let no man, that would be myself (Paul) any body that says they are working with me or anyone claiming to come with something different to say than I am going to tell you right now.

That Day: What is that day? The Day Of The Lord; the millennium; Who long is a day with the Lord? A thousand years or a millennium. What is going to happen first? There be a falling away! A falling away of what? Following Jesus. And then what? THE RAPTURE No sorry. The man of sin be relieved, the son of perdition; Who is ? Satan and just what is he going to do when he comes?



4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

He is going to oppose and exalt himself above all that is called God. He did it once before when He was the Cherubim that covereth; He once protected the mercy seat the throne of God. Till he got proud and wanted to set in it. He is going to set in the temple of God proclaiming to be God. If you have not seen that (I can tell you it has not happened) Jesus has not returned.



Yes that place still stands today God did not let some little roman general destroy what he set up from the time of Abraham till today and for all eternity. Abraham went to Moriah to sacrifice Isaac. Moriah was also the sight of the first temple. In 957 B.C. the First Temple was built by Solomon on Mt. Moriah ( 2 Chron. 3:1 ). It was built according to the divine plans given to his father David ( 1 Chronicles 22:5-6; 28:11-12, 19 ), and the glory of God filled it ( 1 Kings 8:10-11 ). Today it houses (The dome of the rock) the foundation stone of that Muslim temple(according to historians) is the alter that Abraham made his first sacrifice to God on. Do you not thank that God can use that;and who knows maybe Israel will take it back before all is said and done.

Im terribly sorry to say, but this rather convoluted post has nothing to do with eternal security or salvation.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

The reason I ask is because I assume that you believe salvation is by grace alone but it seems you are now adding your works to maintain your salvation.
Was Christ's life and death not sufficient?

Precious friend, Cameron, Correct, no assumption needed:
"For By GRACE Are ye Saved Through faith," (Eph 2:8-9), since:

Christ's Death, Burial, and Resurrection, According To The Scriptures,
Are [Indeed] ALL-Sufficient For God's ETERNAL Salvation! (1Co 15:3-4)

Is perseverance necessary for salvation or merely a consequence of it?

Since the above is true, Then "perseverance" doing "good works" will be
"For Rewards" At Judgment! (Eph 2:10; 1Co 3:8-15)

Paul deals with the early church on this issue in Galatians. There the matter seems to be circumcision.
When James says faith without works is dead do you believe works are a requirement of salvation or merely an evidence of it?

The "issue" of Paul's "no works" for salvation, and James' "faith without works
is dead," is understood with the Help Of The Blessed Teacher, The Holy Spirit,
Teaching us The Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided, Approved Unto God. i.e.:

God's Previous Context of:

"Prophecy/Law" {earthly} Christ And The TWELVE, gospel of the kingdom,
ISRAEL [TWELVE tribes] prominent! {past/future} "faith w/o works is DEAD"
(↑↑↑ James 1:1 TO ↑↑↑↑) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (James 2:17,20,26)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)

God's Current Context of:

"Mystery/GRACE!" {Heavenly!} Risen And Glorified Christ, Gospel Of GRACE,
Jew And Gentile "Equal!" In The ONE Body Of CHRIST, By ONE Baptism, The

Holy Spirit's OPERATION!!
↓ ↑ ↓ ↑ ↓ ↑ ↓ ↑ ↓ ↑ ↓ ↑ ↓ ↑ ↓​

{Current, Today!} "GRACE Through faith" Apart From ALL [our] works,
(Romans Through Philemon), For God's Eternal Salvation/Assurance

Scriptural Confirmation:

Php_1:6 "Being confident of this very thing, that He Which Hath​

Begun a Good Work in you Will Perform It until The Day Of Jesus Christ"​

​

Does not this then answer the question: "Is It Christ In you Who Perseveres?"
Amen!

GRACE And Peace...

 

[PennEd]

when we are born, we do not know God out of ignorance and lack of knowledge.
the apostate has been informed, believed for a moment, then chose to walk away.
apostate by meaning indicates knowledge of what is being rejected.
there's a difference between those who are blind and with those who have seen then walked away.

Yes. But he wasn’t born again.

I know plenty of people that know who Jesus is, yet aren’t born again. They haven’t acknowledged their sin, nor expressed that Jesus died to pay their sin debt.

 

[PennEd]

How can you be an apostate before you are born again if you hve to be a believer in Jesus to become an apostate?

The book of apostates, really named the Book of Jude, describes the attributes, and destiny of apostates.

Nowhere does any book in Scripture day apostates we’re born again.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Just passing through. Will reply in more detail later. Here are some 50 Scriptural Proofs that OSAS is not Biblically Correct. https://www.bible.ca/cal-P-refutation.htm

"
Scriptural refutation of "eternal Security"
Following is a very simple chart which refutes the doctrine of "Once saved, always saved." As you will notice, we have selected the passages which clearly demonstrate that the inspired writers were referring to Christians (children of God). This destroys the very convenient dodge: "If they are lost, they weren't saved to begin with" and/or "If one is a child of God, he could never cease to become a child of God." As shown in the chart, among other things, a child of God can become an "accursed child." Please carefully examine all the passages given in the chart. As shown in those verses, the inspired writers are referring to children of God.
Things Children of God Can Do:
1. Fall from grace - Gal. 5:1-4,13
2. Be led away with error - 2 Pet. 3:17
3. Err from the truth - James 5:19-20
4. Weak brother may perish - 1 Cor. 8:11
5. Fall into condemnation - James 5:12
6. Be moved away from the hope - Col. 1:21-23
7. Deny the Lord who bought them - 2 Pet. 2:1
8. Depart from the living God - Heb. 3:12
9. Can be a castaway - 1 Cor. 9:27
10. Can become accursed children - 2 Pet. 2:14"

36 Bible texts that refute "eternal security"
Bible Text
Description Of Blood Bought Believer
Description Of Sin
Description After
.
Indicate Those Descriptions You Feel Do Not Refer To Christians But The Lost
.
Indicate Those You Feel Do Not Refer To The Lost, But To Christians

Ezek 3:20; 18:24-26​

righteous
turns away, commits iniquity
die in sin

Mt 25:1-13​

took lamps and went to meet Christ
5 were foolish
"I do not know you"

Mt 25:14-30​

Christ's own slaves
hid talent
wicked lazy, cast into outer darkness, weep & gnash

Lk 8:13​

receive word with joy, believe
temptation, persecution
fall away

Lk 9:62​

put hands to plow of kingdom
looked back to former life
not fit for kingdom

Lk 12:42-48​

steward in charge of Christ's servants
beat slaves, drunkenness
cut in pieces, assign with unbelievers

Jn 15:1-6​

branches
does not abide
thrown away, dried up, burnt

Acts 4:32;5:1-11​

of those who believed
lied to Holy Spirit
God struck dead

Acts 8:9-24​

Simon the sorcerer believed, baptized, received HS
offered money
heart not right, wickedness, gall of bitterness, bond of iniquity

Acts 20:17,28-30​

elders, shepherds of church
false doctrine
drawn away

Rom 11:13-23​

wild olive, grafted in v17, stand by faith V20
unbelief, not continue V20,22
not spared, cut off V21-22

1 Cor 9:26-27​

Apostle Paul, preached to others
body not slave
Paul disqualified

1 Cor 10:1-12​

standing (feel they are saved) V12
immorality, crave evil, grumble,
fall V12

Gal 2:11-14​

Apostle Peter
false doctrine, hypocrisy
Literal Greek "stood condemned" V11

Gal 5:4​

severed & fallen indicates previously joined and standing
seeking to keep OT
severed from Christ, fallen from grace

Gal 6:1​

restore indicates once saved
caught in trespass
needed to be restored

1 Ti 1:18-20​

Hymenaeus, Alexander: shipwreck indicates they once sailed good.
rejected faith and good conscience, blasphemed
their personal faith shipwrecked, delivered to Satan

1 Ti 4:1​

fall away indicates once saved
false doctrine
fall away from faith

1 Ti 5:8​

passage addressed to Christians
doesn't provide for family
denied faith, worse than unbeliever

1 Ti 6:10​

passage addressed to Christians
love of money
wandered from faith, pierced selves with pangs

2 Ti 2:16-18​

Hymenaeus and Philetus: gone astray indicates once correct
False doctrine: resurrection past
gone astray, upset other's faith as well

Heb 3:12​

brethren
evil, unbelieving
fall away from God

Heb 4:1-2,11​

brethren, addressed to Christians
unbelief, disobey
short of God's rest, fall

Heb 6:4-8​

once enlightened, tasted heavenly gift, partakers of HS, Bible & powers to come, renew indicates restore to former cleanness
sin
fallen away, can't renew, crucified Christ again and put in open shame

Heb 10:26-31​

received knowledge of truth. no longer remains indicates they once had forgiveness
sinning willfully
no forgiveness of sin, fearful judgment

Heb 10:38-39​

God's righteous, Christians
shrinks back
God has no pleasure in him, destruction

Jas 5:19-20​

brethren, Christians
strays from truth, sin
soul will die in sins, sinner

1 Pe 5:8​

Christians
sin
devoured by devil

2 Pe 2:1​

Christians, "among you" had been bought by Christ
false prophets
swift destruction

2 Pe 2:20-22​

escaped defilements of world by Christ, entangled again, returns to mire indicates they were once untangled and clean, known way of righteousness, had washed
entangled, overcome, turned away, returns to vomit/mire
last state worse than first, better they never had became Christians

2 Pe 3:17​

beloved, Christians
carried away,
fall from own steadfastness

2 Jn 8-9​

Christians, have accomplished
not abide in doctrine, false doctrine
lose, no reward doesn't have God

Rev 2:4-5​

Christians in Ephesus
left first love
fallen, lampstand removed

Rev 3:5​

Christians in Sardis
deeds incomplete
are dead

Rev 3:16-17​

Christians in Laodicea
lukewarmness
spit out of Christ's mouth

Indicate Those Descriptions You Feel Do Not Refer To Christians But The Lost

Indicate Those You Feel Do Not Refer To The Lost, But To Christians
Topical organization of scriptures that refute "Eternal Security"
1 Parable of sower

• Mark 4:16 (Luke 8:13) "And in a similar way these are the ones on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with joy; (they believe for a while) and they have no firm root in themselves, but are only temporary; then, when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately they fall away.

2 Fallen from grace passage:

• Galatians 5:4 "You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace."

3 Pruning passages:

• John 15:5-6 "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me, and I in him, he bears much fruit; for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch, and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."
• Romans 11:19-23 "You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; for if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will He spare you. Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in; for God is able to graft them in again."

4 Hebrews Passages:

• Hebrews 6:4-6 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God, and put Him to open shame.
• Hebrews 10:26-27 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain terrifying expectation of judgment, and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries."
• Hebrews 10:38-39 "But My righteous one shall live by faith; And if he shrinks back, My soul has no pleasure in him. But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul."

 

[Thewatchman]

The book of apostates, really named the Book of Jude, describes the attributes, and destiny of apostates.

Nowhere does any book in Scripture day apostates we’re born again.

The book of Jude talks about the fallen angles from the first earth age and the angles that cme during the time of Noah

 

[FreeGrace2]

Yes. I believe you are correct.

Nowhere in Scripture are apostates said be saved.

Those immense amount of verses I posted pertain to those that have been born again, and are children of God.

Apostates were NEVER born again.

The definition of an apostate is "a change of views" and applies politically or religiously.

ie: when a Democrat becomes a Republican. Or when a Christian becomes a wiccan.

When people really understand that Jesus taught that a believer possesses eternal life WHEN they believe in John 5:24, and that recipients of eternal life shall never perish in John 10:28, they will realize that NO verse teaches that salvation can be lost, because that would directly conflict with what Jesus taught.

All warning verses are about God's divine discipline towards His wayward children. None are about losing salvation.

Or Jesus was wrong or lied. Think about that.

 

[BroTan]

FreeGrace2 said:
The sole issue is this: do YOU believe Jesus when He said that recipients of eternal life (which is WHEN they believe, John 5:24) shall never perish?

No, I don't think you do.


But that verse isn't about salvation. James didn't write "in order to be/stay saved..." either in front of the verse or at the end. You are making assumptions that are not warranted.


That is not found in the Bible, in spite of the many people who think it is. Believers are commanded to bear fruit. It is not automatic or guaranteed.


Are you aware of 1 Peter 3:15? Peter TELLS believers (saved people) to sanctify Jesus AS Lord. Jesus is Lord, obviously. But believers who focus on themself are NOT making Jesus Lord of their lives. Paul warned believers to NOT grieve/quench the Spirit. That means believers CAN do that. And those who are doing that are NOT making Jesus Lord of their lives.

Far too many believers are way too naive about the Christian life. They don't really understand the Bible.



Even a child will obey a parent, by getting good grades in school, for the reward of a new bicycle. The child cannot earn money for the bicycle, but instead must act upon their faith to receive the free gift. We must do the same to receive eternal life. "FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD” (James 2:20).

Jesus only died once, so if we willingly break God's law, after accepting Jesus, our reward will be eternal damnation (Hebrews 10:26-27) 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Let us avoid this at all costs, seeking a better reward. Jesus will return real soon And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. (Revelation 22:12).

[/QUOTE]


Yes I think we do have a miss understanding, so let me start from a different point, because Jesus brought grace when he came in the flesh, but example of grace was in the days of Noah. But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. (Genesis 6:8), And Noah and his family was saved. Now Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God. So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2 :36-38). And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past.

We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death. But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose. That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life but that’s another lesson for another time. So by coming under the blood of Jesus you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God (Romans 23:3), and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Hebrew 10: 26, 27)