My Walk with Christ, as an Evangelical Christian.

[The_Watchers_2017]

i do not adhere to any Denomination, Doctrine, or Creed. my beliefs fall more in line with Speaking in Tongues Baptist/Pentecostal. i don't define God by persons because the Bible tells me He is Spirit. i believe in the Father-WORD-Holy Spirit. i use the 4th Century Greek Translations over the 16th Century Texts so my definitions will read differently based upon translation. i believe God is the SAME yesterday-today-forever. i am Saved through Faith knowing by believing that Jesus did Die for my sins, was Buried, and one day i will resurrect because He did.

 

[VCO]

I wonder why you make such huge leaps in assumptions here and then post a whole post based on that. I think mentioning water baptism is more of a priority for doctrine when compared to interpretations of the millennium.

But Peter also says '...baptism now saves you, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God.

Peter said to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. Paul, preaching to an audience and sharing his testimony tells them that Ananias told him to be baptized and washing away his sin, calling upon the name of the Lord.

It makes sense to generally take references to baptism as referring to water baptism unless context indicates otherwise, since they did baptize with water. Peter said, "Who should forbid water....' and Philip went down into the water after the eunuch suggested he be baptized.

Paul says that we are baptized and raised with Jesus in baptism through faith in the operation of God who raised Him from the dead.

Supposing you are right about which phrase or phrases 'before time began' refers back to, this is written from a different perspective. God could call us before time began, but then baptism can 'now save you' when it happens.

I'm no Greek expert, but looking at the verb tenses in an interlinear, I am inclined to think that 'before time began' goes with 'purpose and grace having been given to us in Christ Jesus'.


I wonder how you think this passage proves whatever point you are trying to make. Do you think allowing oneself to be baptized is doing the type of 'work' Paul is referring to her? Do you think believing and confession is a 'work'?

Non-denominational Evangelical Christian.

We evangelicals believe the Bible MUST be interpreted LITERALLY, as long as there is NOT an obvious Symbolism attached to it.

Deuteronomy 4:24-25 (ESV)
24 For the LORD your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.
25 “When you father children and children’s children, and have grown old in the land, if you act corruptly by making a carved image in the form of anything, and by doing what is evil in the sight of the LORD your God, so as to provoke him to anger,

That is Symbolism, with the attached Proof that if means HIS anger is LIKE a consuming fire; NOT THAT HE IS A BLAST FURNACE IN THE SKY.

The Baptism (IMMERSION) into the Body of Christ, is SALVATION. SO IT LITERALLY MEANS:

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works {crawling into a river or baptistry is a WORK}, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

More verses for you to Consider:

Isaiah 37:26 (ESV)
26 “‘Have you not heard that I determined it long ago? I planned from days of old what now I bring to pass, that you should make fortified cities crash into heaps of ruins,

Isaiah 46:11-12 (NIV)
11 From the east I summon a bird of prey; from a far-off land, a man to fulfill my purpose. What I have said, that will I bring about; what I have planned, that will I do.
12 Listen to me, you stubborn-hearted, you who are far from righteousness.

Acts 4:27-28 (HCSB)
27 “For, in fact, in this city both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the people of Israel, assembled together against Your holy Servant Jesus, whom You anointed,
28 to do whatever Your hand and Your plan had predestined to take place.

Isaiah 14:24 (NJB)
24 Yahweh Sabaoth has sworn it, ‘Yes, what I have planned will take place, what I have decided will be so:

Romans 8:29-30 (NJB)
29 He decided beforehand who were the ones destined to be moulded to the pattern of his Son, so that he should be the eldest of many brothers;
30 it was those so destined that he called; those that he called, he justified, and those that he has justified he has brought into glory.

1 Corinthians 2:7 (NJB)
7 It is of the mysterious wisdom of God that we talk, the wisdom that was hidden, which God predestined to be for our glory before the ages began.

Ephesians 1:4-5 (NJB)
4 Thus he chose us in Christ before the world was made to be holy and faultless before him in love,
5 marking us out for himself beforehand, to be adopted sons, through Jesus Christ. Such was his purpose and good pleasure,

Ephesians 1:11 (NJB)
11 And it is in him that we have received our heritage, marked out beforehand as we were, under the plan of the One who guides all things as he decides by his own will,


And I suspect you thought you first CHOSE HIM. WHEN WE WERE CHOSEN BY HIM, From the Beginning of TIME.

You can believe what you want, but

We will believe the BIBLE.

 

[VCO]

i do not adhere to any Denomination, Doctrine, or Creed. my beliefs fall more in line with Speaking in Tongues Baptist/Pentecostal. i don't define God by persons because the Bible tells me He is Spirit. i believe in the Father-WORD-Holy Spirit. i use the 4th Century Greek Translations over the 16th Century Texts so my definitions will read differently based upon translation. i believe God is the SAME yesterday-today-forever. i am Saved through Faith knowing by believing that Jesus did Die for my sins, was Buried, and one day i will resurrect because He did.

Non-denominational Evangelical Christian.

Amen!

As long as you can accept that I do not believe in the Modern Day Tongues, we will get along just fine.

Where I want this thread to go, is to focus on what we Believe in Common and NOT on our Differences.

You will like one of my FAVORITE VERSE:

Malachi 3:6 (NJB)
6 ‘No; I, Yahweh, do not change;
and you have not ceased to be children of Jacob!

Welcome aboard!

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Non-denominational Evangelical Christian.

Amen!

As long as you can accept that I do not believe in the Modern Day Tongues, we will get along just fine.

Where I want this thread to go, is to focus on what we Believe in Common and NOT on our Differences.

You will like one of my FAVORITE VERSE:

Malachi 3:6 (NJB)
6 ‘No; I, Yahweh, do not change;
and you have not ceased to be children of Jacob!

Welcome aboard!

Thank You, Brother, and Amen!

 

[ResidentAlien]

The only problem with a "boiled down, simplified faith statement," as someone said, is that once a person masters it they think they've got it; they think there's nothing more to learn. They begin to depend more on their "statement" than on God's inspired word. This is exactly what the Pharisees and Sadducees did and drew sharp criticism from the Lord for it.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Non-denominational Evangelical Christian.

I Agree to Disagree.

End of Subject.

Maybe it's the end of the matter for you, but unfortunately for you (and fortunately for me), neither you nor your "statement" get the last word; that's reserved for God's inspired scriptures.

 

[ResidentAlien]

ResidentAlien How can you treat VCO like this? Is that the way Jesus spoke to His disciples? Harsh and with a mean tone. Stop and thank of what you just said to someone that is asking for help. VOC he does have a point about getting caught up in the traditions of men but what we need to do is train you up right. You may be old in years but you are still young in Christ and just as a child you need to be trained up the same goes for us. We should be here to help. ResidentAlien please take this as a gentle correction too. I do not know either of you so please till we get to know one another please what I say with a grain of salt and if you disagree, or you don't understand something please ask me to explain it.

No harm intended. Sorry you took it that way. Have a blessed day.

 

[presidente]

Non-denominational Evangelical Christian.

We evangelicals believe the Bible MUST be interpreted LITERALLY, as long as there is NOT an obvious Symbolism attached to it.

I don't think you are familiar with all the groups that make up evangelicalism. This is the sort of thing dispensationalists say, but not all evangelicals are dispensationalists. For example, some are amil. As much as you emphasize predestination, it is odd that you are not aware of that, since many of the Calvinist persuasion are amil.

The Baptism (IMMERSION) into the Body of Christ, is SALVATION. SO IT LITERALLY MEANS:

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works {crawling into a river or baptistry is a WORK}, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

'Literally' versus allegorical doesn't add much to your argument. Where does the Bible teach that 'crawling into a river or a baptistry is a work.' The person getting baptized isn't even doing the baptizing. If someone thought they were being justified by baptizing others, maybe you would have an argument about trusting in one's own works.

In Acts 2, did Peter tell his audience to do the works of the law in the name of Jesus Christ and receive the forgiveness of sin? When Ananias told Saul of Tarsus to by baptized and wash away his sin, was he telling him to wash away his sin through good works, or through the works of the law? If so, why would he repeat it while proclaiming Christ in the temple?

More verses for you to Consider:

Isaiah 37:26 (ESV)
26 “‘Have you not heard that I determined it long ago? I planned from days of old what now I bring to pass, that you should make fortified cities crash into heaps of ruins,

Isaiah 46:11-12 (NIV)
11 From the east I summon a bird of prey; from a far-off land, a man to fulfill my purpose. What I have said, that will I bring about; what I have planned, that will I do.
12 Listen to me, you stubborn-hearted, you who are far from righteousness.

Acts 4:27-28 (HCSB)
27 “For, in fact, in this city both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the people of Israel, assembled together against Your holy Servant Jesus, whom You anointed,
28 to do whatever Your hand and Your plan had predestined to take place.

Isaiah 14:24 (NJB)
24 Yahweh Sabaoth has sworn it, ‘Yes, what I have planned will take place, what I have decided will be so:

Romans 8:29-30 (NJB)
29 He decided beforehand who were the ones destined to be moulded to the pattern of his Son, so that he should be the eldest of many brothers;
30 it was those so destined that he called; those that he called, he justified, and those that he has justified he has brought into glory.

1 Corinthians 2:7 (NJB)
7 It is of the mysterious wisdom of God that we talk, the wisdom that was hidden, which God predestined to be for our glory before the ages began.

Ephesians 1:4-5 (NJB)
4 Thus he chose us in Christ before the world was made to be holy and faultless before him in love,
5 marking us out for himself beforehand, to be adopted sons, through Jesus Christ. Such was his purpose and good pleasure,

Ephesians 1:11 (NJB)
11 And it is in him that we have received our heritage, marked out beforehand as we were, under the plan of the One who guides all things as he decides by his own will,


And I suspect you thought you first CHOSE HIM. WHEN WE WERE CHOSEN BY HIM, From the Beginning of TIME.

These are great verses, but how are they related to the point we are discussing.

You can believe what you want, but

We will believe the BIBLE.

I will believe the Bible. You can believe the Bible... or try to find contradictions where none exist.

 

[presidente]

The only problem with a "boiled down, simplified faith statement," as someone said, is that once a person masters it they think they've got it; they think there's nothing more to learn. They begin to depend more on their "statement" than on God's inspired word. This is exactly what the Pharisees and Sadducees did and drew sharp criticism from the Lord for it.

In some cases it is like this. There are those who treat certain confessions like scripture from my perspective.

 

[Thewatchman]

First thing out of the gate I am not here to judge you, your church your doctrine.

I will be going over certain doctrines and beliefs and giving my reasons from the bible why I do or do not believe them. I can be hard headed at times I am working on this if I come across pushy or over barring I am sorry let me know. What I am looking for in your thread is interaction and an open exchange of ideas. I will always try and come from the bible only; Not with this man or that man or I said or thank. The only thing I ask is that if you disagree please show me where I have misread or misunderstood, or may be just ingredient (not stupid, but unlearned, without understand of a thing or subject) on a subject.

The traditions of men make void the word of God.

Mark 7:13 in several different translations of the bible makes this point clear. New International Version
Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”

New Living Translation
And so you cancel the word of God in order to hand down your own tradition. And this is only one example among many others.”

English Standard Version
thus making void the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

Berean Study Bible
Thus you nullify the word of God by the tradition you have handed down. And you do so in many such matters.”

Berean Literal Bible
making void the word of God for your tradition, which you have handed down. And you do many things like such."

King James Bible
Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Lets start with some things I thank we can all agree upon and is a fundamental belief for all Christians

# 1.The Trinity: God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit the 3 in one.

#2.Jesus is the only begotten son of God, the only virgin birth.

#4 All scripture is inspired by God

#5 We must be born again to enter the kingdom of God.

#6.Jesus died on the cross and shed His blood for our sins; and it is only throw Him that we have forgiveness.

Here is where we come into one of the sticky points. I do not believe in eternal security.

Romans 2:25

Berean Study Bible
God presented Him as the atoning sacrifice through faith in His blood, in order to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance He had passed over the sins committed beforehand.

Berean Literal Bible
whom God set forth as a propitiation through faith in His blood, for a showing forth of His righteousness, because of the forbearance of the sins having taken place beforehand,

King James Bible
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Sins past. If I go out and today and sin knowingly or unknowingly in order to have it blotted out of the book of life I have to ask for forgiveness. Am I saying 1 unforgiven sin and you are condemned no, but if you let then add up.

#7. The resurrection of the dead.

The church I know of which is not all of them by any means believe that when we die the body and soul go into the ground and when Jesus returns both go to heaven.

I do not believe the bible say that; I believe and the bible makes clear that when you die the body returns to the earth and the soul returns to God.

Genesis 3:19

English Standard Version
By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.”

Berean Study Bible
By the sweat of your brow you will eat your bread, until you return to the ground—because out of it were you taken. For dust you are, and to dust you shall return.”

King James Bible
In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Ecclesiastes 12:6

English Standard Version
before the silver cord is snapped, or the golden bowl is broken, or the pitcher is shattered at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern,

Berean Study Bible
Remember Him before the silver cord is snapped and the golden bowl is crushed, before the pitcher is shattered at the spring and the wheel is broken at the well,

King James Bible
Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.

Verse 7

English Standard Version
and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

Berean Study Bible
before the dust returns to the ground from which it came and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

King James Bible
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.




1st Corinthians 15:35-50

The Resurrection Body

35But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 36Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 37And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 38But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 39All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. 40There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Where O Death is Your Victory?

(Isaiah 57:1-2)

50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

More to follow

 

[Thewatchman]

These are not in any type of order they are coming as I thank about them.

# 8 The bible from Genesis 1:1 – Revelation 22:21 is the inspired word of God

# 9 The Law the 10 commandments are still in effect today even thou we are under grace.

Matthew 5

17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

You shall have no other gods before Me.

1. 
   
   You shall make no idols.​
   
   
   You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.​
   
   
   Keep the Sabbath day holy.​
   
   
   Honor your father and your mother.​
   
   
   You shall not murder.​
   
   
   You shall not commit adultery.​
   
   
   You shall not steal.​
   
   
   You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.​
   
   
   You shall not covet.​

As you read through these ask yourself is it a sin against God if I do these things; is it against the laws of my state or country to do any of these. Even #5 For me that was a hard one; my dad and I wonderful my mom always compared be to one of the teacher's son she worked with, and he was in my class. Why can't you be like------ he gets all A's he plays football, he got an internships at__ this summer . . . Then she did nor like my girlfriend who became my wife this year was #48. God gave me a Proverbs 31 wife. With Gods help I was able to forgive her before she passed and He has removed that pain and I have been able to forgive her.

#10 Read and study the word daily.

Acts 17 (NIV)

10As soon as it was night, the believers sent Paul and Silas away to Berea. On arriving there, they went to the Jewish synagogue. 11Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.



Acts 17 (BSB)

As soon as night had fallen, the brothers sent Paul and Silas away to Berea. On arriving there, they went into the Jewish synagogue. 11Now the Bereans were more noble-minded than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if these teachings were true.

Acts 17 (KJV)

10And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

When as the last time if ever you went home from Church, men's or woman's group, teen night . . . picked up your bible and really checked out from God's word if what was said lined up with what the bible says.

I am stopping here because I want to change subjects a bit. Please remember that I welcome your feed back agree disagree but please when you tell why come with scripture.

 

[Thewatchman]

I don't think you are familiar with all the groups that make up evangelicalism. This is the sort of thing dispensationalists say, but not all evangelicals are dispensationalists. For example, some are amil. As much as you emphasize predestination, it is odd that you are not aware of that, since many of the Calvinist persuasion are amil.



'Literally' versus allegorical doesn't add much to your argument. Where does the Bible teach that 'crawling into a river or a baptistry is a work.' The person getting baptized isn't even doing the baptizing. If someone thought they were being justified by baptizing others, maybe you would have an argument about trusting in one's own works.

In Acts 2, did Peter tell his audience to do the works of the law in the name of Jesus Christ and receive the forgiveness of sin? When Ananias told Saul of Tarsus to by baptized and wash away his sin, was he telling him to wash away his sin through good works, or through the works of the law? If so, why would he repeat it while proclaiming Christ in the temple?



These are great verses, but how are they related to the point we are discussing.



I will believe the Bible. You can believe the Bible... or try to find contradictions where none exist.

I wonder why you make such huge leaps in assumptions here and then post a whole post based on that. I think mentioning water baptism is more of a priority for doctrine when compared to interpretations of the millennium.

But Peter also says '...baptism now saves you, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God.

Peter said to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. Paul, preaching to an audience and sharing his testimony tells them that Ananias told him to be baptized and washing away his sin, calling upon the name of the Lord.

It makes sense to generally take references to baptism as referring to water baptism unless context indicates otherwise, since they did baptize with water. Peter said, "Who should forbid water....' and Philip went down into the water after the eunuch suggested he be baptized.

Paul says that we are baptized and raised with Jesus in baptism through faith in the operation of God who raised Him from the dead.




Supposing you are right about which phrase or phrases 'before time began' refers back to, this is written from a different perspective. God could call us before time began, but then baptism can 'now save you' when it happens.

I'm no Greek expert, but looking at the verb tenses in an interlinear, I am inclined to think that 'before time began' goes with 'purpose and grace having been given to us in Christ Jesus'.


I wonder how you think this passage proves whatever point you are trying to make. Do you think allowing oneself to be baptized is doing the type of 'work' Paul is referring to her? Do you think believing and confession is a 'work'?

Presidente are you saying that it through baptism that we are saved?

“I wonder why you make such huge leaps in assumptions here and then post a whole post based on that. I think mentioning water baptism is more of a priority for doctrine when compared to interpretations of the millennium.

But Peter also says '...baptism now saves you, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God.

Peter said to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. Paul, preaching to an audience and sharing his testimony tells them that Ananias told him to be baptized and washing away his sin, calling upon the name of the Lord.

It makes sense to generally take references to baptism as referring to water baptism unless context indicates otherwise, since they did baptize with water. Peter said, "Who should forbid water....' and Philip went down into the water after the eunuch suggested he be baptized.

Paul says that we are baptized and raised with Jesus in baptism through faith in the operation of God who raised Him from the dead.”


As I read John 3 Jesus never told Nicodemus he must be baptized in order to enter the kingdom of heaven.

John 3

1There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:2The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

You should know that Nicodemus on the ruling conceal. He was a high mucky muck in the big church downtown. For that reason he does not want anyone to know he is meeting Jesus; so he go out in the cover of darkness of night. Who rules the night? He heaps all kinds of praise on Jesus, No one can do hat you do unless he comes from

god. Dose Jesus take his praise NO instead he tells him;

Verse 3.Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

He did not say unless a man be baptized he can not enter the kingdom of God.

Am I saying that you should not be baptized NO. It is biblical, Jesus was baptized.

1st Corinthians 1:14 King James Bible
I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; In all Paul's ministry these are the only 2 he personally baptized. Did he have other do it yes I am sure he did because it is line with the bible.

Let me give you a what if. Your pastor shows up on a cold Sunday morning and the water pipes are frozen. He has service and at the end of service he has an alter call and 4 people except Jesus. They can not be baptized till next Wednesday, or Sunday. On the way home on the icy roads there is an accident and one of those 4 people is killed. He was unable to get baptized does that mean he does not go to heaven? What about death bed confessions.

1st John 1

9.If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1st John 2:2

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Does it say that baptism is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins; or that baptism is the propitiation for our sins. NO! It does not. Should you be baptized I thank so Jesus was and we are to follow in His footsteps. It is not a requirement for salvation!

By saying that it is you are teaching and spreading false doctrine. The people that are teaching you this have been trained wrong. There is a false teaching going on in that church or denomination.

 

[Dirtman]

The only problem with a "boiled down, simplified faith statement," as someone said, is that once a person masters it they think they've got it; they think there's nothing more to learn. They begin to depend more on their "statement" than on God's inspired word. This is exactly what the Pharisees and Sadducees did and drew sharp criticism from the Lord for it.

It is indeed not what they did.
They added to the scriptures a thing called the oral traditions. Which put added burden on the people, and gave them special authority, which is why it drew criticism from The Lord.
The reason it's handy to have faith statements is for a paradigm through which yo see the world.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

It is indeed not what they did.
They added to the scriptures a thing called the oral traditions. Which put added burden on the people, and gave them special authority, which is why it drew criticism from The Lord.
The reason it's handy to have faith statements is for a paradigm through which yo see the world.

reminds me of the 4th Century Greek Bible to the 16th Century Latin to English Textus Receptus that even Erasmus noted did not match the Original but was forced to present.


To fill out the text, Erasmus made his own Greek translation from the Latin. He admitted to what he had done

Feb 18, 2019 — Erasmus' reconstruction of this passage, however, does not match up with any Greek manuscripts at several points

Mar 9, 2019 — The Textus Receptus was clearly made unreliable by errors or alterations by being changed from the original form of the Greek New Testament.

 

[phil36]

To be evangelical you need to believe in the christian essentials as taught in scripture.

Most statements of faith of local congregations will have that as their base.

It is interesting that most heretical beliefs attack one of the first 3 (usually first 3). These 3 essentials (not the only ones) are:


1. We believe the Bible (or Holy B is the whole, verbally-inspired, infallible, and authoritative Word of God (II Timothy 3:16)

2. We believe there is one God, eternally existent in three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit (Gen. 1:1; John 10:30; John 4:24)

3.We believe in the Deity of our Lord Jesus Christ (John 10:33); in His virgin Birth (Isa. 7:14); (Matt. 1:23; Luke 1:35); in His sinless life (Heb. 4:15; 7:25); in His bodily resurrection (John 11:25); in His ascension to the right hand of the Father (Acts 1: 9-11); and in His personal, imminent, return in power and glory (Rev. 19:11-16)

These are the 3 that usually are attacked and maligned by heresies. These are not just the basics of evangelicals but the essential truth of scripture.. Therefore for all christian. Always be careful of crafty wording on the trinity.. They may make you think they are trinitarian but far from it.

Anyhow believers can have peace with one another through their shared belief in the christian essentials. Shared values in Christ. Yes we can disagree about end times, modes of baptism, what comes first faith or regeneration.. But, on the essentials all Christians should stand side by side.

Of course another major essential is justification itself.

If there is no imputation there is no sola fide, no sola fide no gospel!

Solafide = justification by faith alone

 

[Dirtman]

reminds me of the 4th Century Greek Bible to the 16th Century Latin to English Textus Receptus that even Erasmus noted did not match the Original but was forced to present.


To fill out the text, Erasmus made his own Greek translation from the Latin. He admitted to what he had done

Feb 18, 2019 — Erasmus' reconstruction of this passage, however, does not match up with any Greek manuscripts at several points

Mar 9, 2019 — The Textus Receptus was clearly made unreliable by errors or alterations by being changed from the original form of the Greek New Testament.

I'm with ya on textus receptus. The Byzantine text is preferred.

 

[VCO]

The only problem with a "boiled down, simplified faith statement," as someone said, is that once a person masters it they think they've got it; they think there's nothing more to learn. They begin to depend more on their "statement" than on God's inspired word. This is exactly what the Pharisees and Sadducees did and drew sharp criticism from the Lord for it.

I am about to start the 3rd page of my Testimony, It will prove your whole theory in ERROR.

Those who are Truly Born Again, have the LORD in control of their Mind, most of the time, and have submitted to HIS WILL, and will do so, until we take our last breath.

This is the Next Paragraph, in my Testimony:
My Walk with Christ, as an Evangelical Christian.

I had at on time over 500 cassette tapes, and most of them were by Dr. John MacArthur. The first series I listened to was a Verse by Verse study of the Book of REVELATION. Over the next decade, I listen to every tape 4 times all together. Now at 73 years of age, our New pastor, is starting to TEACH Verse by Verse thru the Book of REVELATION. My Pastor is a Graduate of MacArthur's Seminary. This is the 5th, I have heard REVELATION Taught Verse by Verse, called Bible Exposition, and it will be about a YEAR, before we get finished with the Study of Revelation, AND I FIND IT IS AS EXCITING AT THE FIRST TIME I HEARD MacArthur Teach it. For the Born Again Christian, there is NO SUCH THING as getting BORED with the Word of GOD being Exposited Verse by Verse.

End of Paragraph.

So now it is my turn to ask you a Question.

Tell us in Detail, how You were Born Again ? ? ?

 

[presidente]

Presidente are you saying that it through baptism that we are saved?

Peter said 'baptism now saves you...'. Do you think I am a heretic for repeating Peter's teachings?

As I read John 3 Jesus never told Nicodemus he must be baptized in order to enter the kingdom of heaven.

Let's set aside your assertion there for a second, and let me ask you, did Jesus say everything in the Bible to Nicodemus? Are the parts of the New Testament that Jesus did not say to Nicodemus true?

What about Mark 16?
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.


16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.

Matthew 28
17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Jesus has authority, and He went them with instructions to teach and to baptize. Peter was one of them. A few weeks later, he is preaching, and we read how he responds to the crowd.

Acts 2
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Consider this passage:
John 3
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

I had a conversation with a friend who was a seminary student who would later become a Bible college professor in Hebrew. He said that according to the Greek the way it is constructed it indicates that baptism of water and the Spirit refer to the same baptism. But I am not sure about that. I don't know enough Greek yet to confirm this for sure.

I see the Greek
ἐξ ὕδατος καὶ Πνεύματος

ex hudatos kai Pneumatos

Maybe it is because 'ex' is only there once. Matthew 20:23 uses ek/ex for each phrase when it says 'sit on My left or My right'.

He also looked up all the references to the verse he could find in the works known as the 'church fathers' and the ones that commented on it took the verse about being born of water and the Spirit to refer to water baptism. I think there were 18 or so references, and there were speakers/readers of Greek not that far removed in time from when John was written.

1st Corinthians 1:14 King James Bible
I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; In all Paul's ministry these are the only 2 he personally baptized. Did he have other do it yes I am sure he did because it is line with the bible.

You left out the part where he baptized the household of Stephanas and he couldn't remember if he baptized any other. Let's look at Acts 18:8.

And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.

If Paul didn't baptize them, they were still baptized.

Let me give you a what if. Your pastor shows up on a cold Sunday morning and the water pipes are frozen. He has service and at the end of service he has an alter call and 4 people except Jesus. They can not be baptized till next Wednesday, or Sunday. On the way home on the icy roads there is an accident and one of those 4 people is killed. He was unable to get baptized does that mean he does not go to heaven? What about death bed confessions.

The idea of disembodied spirits going to heaven is inferred from passages like II Corinthians 5, and isn't directly stated or emphasized in scripture. Jesus and the apostles spoke about the resurrection of the dead. But be that as it may, God judges such things.

Let me give you a what if. Your pastor preaches a sermon on salvation and gives an altar call. Two men hear and want to respond. They walk down to the front, but before they can repeat a prayer or confess Jesus as Lord, this atheistic Antifa neoNazi Communist LGBT activist Muslim terrorist guy walks into the building with a shot gun, runs to the front, and shoots these two men in the back of the head and says, "Hahaha! I got them before they got saved. They're goin' to Hell." Would those who men go to Hell?

1st John 1

9.If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

This is written to readers who are already Christians. It isn't a book about how to become a Christian.

Does it say that baptism is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins; or that baptism is the propitiation for our sins. NO!

That's a straw man argument. Peter says baptism now saves us... by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

By saying that it is you are teaching and spreading false doctrine. The people that are teaching you this have been trained wrong. There is a false teaching going on in that church or denomination.

I quoted Peter and Paul in my last message and you respond like this. Which of these quotes from Peter and Paul that are found in the Bible do you consider to be heretical?

 

[Thewatchman]

Presidente
Peter said 'baptism now saves you...'. Do you think I am a heretic for repeating Peter's teachings? You said it not me take it out of context twist it into something that God never mint to be in the bible.




1 Peter 3 18-22

18For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit, 19in whom He also went and preached to the spirits in prison 20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.

In the ark a few people, only eight souls, were saved through water. 21And this water symbolizes the baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body, but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to Him.

Please read the verses before the one you posted. It is taken completely out of context. You could so easily mislead a new Christian or someone that is nor a Christian they might go out get baptized not understanding anything but what you posted and end up not making it. Then you would have to stand before God at the white throne of judgment and answer or that.
I could make a case for Satan being Jesus if I picked a verse here and from there and put them together.

 

[VCO]

Non-denominational Evangelical Christian.

This is the Next Page, in my Testimony:
My Walk with Christ, as an Evangelical Christian.


The Sermon, style that I like the Best, is to Exposit the BIBLE, which means read Verse, Explain what it means, and How it applies to our Lives, AND less than one Hour Sermon, feels like I got Short Changed. I had a headset Radio and with a Cassette Player in the left Ear, and I was working at P.O. on the PM Shift sorting mail. I would listen to 3 or 4 one hour sermons that way, while I was Sorting mail. I was Hungry for the Word, and absorbing every morsel of the Word. It felt like GOD was preparing something for me to do some kind of ministry.

In the Summer 1987, HE PUT IT ON MY HEART, I had to move West. And I new that meant California, BUT I DON'T want to live in California. But the feeling kept persisting, It is Finished, MOVE WEST. And I could not shake the feeling. That was not an audible voice, it was a thought, and I could not control it. It make sense to me, as I absolutely KNEW He was my heart, when I first invited HIM in. I know I am skipping around a bit, but I want to finish this on this Post, so it is necessary

I put in for a transfer to California, even though the Postmaster said it would be about 5 years before he had an opening. Then unexpectedly two months later, the Postmaster called me and said "I just had to fire someone, do you still want the job." I said Yes,
turned to my wife, and Told her, and she got SO EXCITED. You see, most of relatives lived in Northern California. I said, "You don't understand, WE do not have the money to Move now." She said, "Don't worry the LORD will Provide." We have a WEEK to move, so I wanted to put my 2 years old Car up for Sale, and lease a Car to get us to California. I put a FOR SALE sign In our Car, and Put it in the Paper FOR SALE, and called the Radio Station to put in on the FOR SALE ADD. AND not even one person called to talk to me about my Car, by late Saturday Night, and I had to leave on MONDAY. I was starting to worry a lot by that TIME.

About Midnight there was a FRANTIC knock at the Door, and a Neighbor took me that a drunk teenager was Spinning Kitties on the Loose gravel in front of my house, Lost control, and TOTALED out my parked car, and then just took off. I got more money from the insurance company, than I advertised it for Sale in the Newspaper and on Radio. I had to delay leaving by one day, to finish up paperwork, and left on Tuesday Morning. Got to California, found the LAST APARTMENT Available, paid the First and Last Month's Rent, Paid the Utility Deposit and HAD $90 left over to buy Groceries until my first Paycheck would arrive 3 weeks later.

About 2 years later, this SAME thought came to me. It is finished, you have Got to MOVE WEST. I was in Susanville and now HE want me to MOVE to Crescent City, but this time the reason was REVEALED to me. HE wanted me to move there, because HE wanted me to start a VOLUNTEER PRISON MINISTRY, in the NEW PRISON that they were just starting to build there. Scary, NO? Not REALLY, as I had received a spiritual gift of TOTALLY TRUSTING THE LORD, and He knew everything about Prison Ministy. AND yes, I knew nothing about starting a Prison Ministry, BUT, I knew who knew HIM, HE would Help me, and HE was in my heart.

Yes moving was stressful, but I kept TRUSTING THE LORD. The reason HE wanted there so early, as in the Post Office I was now a City Carrier. It would take about 15 months before the first Inmates arrived. That was a job were you have to be available to take route any bodies route and Carry it, BUT, John the City Carrier 3 retired 15 Month later, and I got the Job, with his regular days off. That why, I had to have regular days off, to commit to Volunteerism.

The Lord told me it is FINISHED.

You Need to KNOW THIS, before I can go. Nothing GOOD in my life is of ME, All the Glory Belongs to the LORD HIMSELF. I absolutely believe that with my whole HEART. If you want to Serve the LORD, you Step through the doorway when HE OPENS THE DOOR. That Door may not be open long, so step though, and TRUST HIM. Patient Waiting is of GOD, when it is of GOD, HE will open the Door.
Nobody knows this, but the Paid Assistant Chaplain position, was cancelled by the Governor about a month before I volunteered. The Head Chaplain showed me the letter. In that letter it Said, " . . . You must Learn to depend on Community Volunteers . . ." God Knew that those words would be on that letter. I BELIEVE, He knew that before Time BEGAIN.