Can homisexuals be saved?
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I Corinthians chapter 6
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
P.S.
I've personally been involved in the conversions of two former lesbians, and I personally know former homosexuals who are now Christians.
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
P.S.
I've personally been involved in the conversions of two former lesbians, and I personally know former homosexuals who are now Christians.
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1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Repentance is always possible, as we see from the letter to the Corinthians. Some of them WERE practicing homosexuality, but repented of it and were washed and sanctified in the name of the Lord Jesus. So it is possible.
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Repentance is always possible, as we see from the letter to the Corinthians. Some of them WERE practicing homosexuality, but repented of it and were washed and sanctified in the name of the Lord Jesus. So it is possible.
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I don't know.
There's evidence going both ways.
Just as an opinion with all that I've seen and witnessed and read.....
It's an identity problem. And an identity is created by a person's experiences and knowledge and desires/fears. Each person has a unique set. We group ourselves in affinity groups. We Christians think alike in many ways so we hang out together. (Even though we do disagree on theologies often)
Homosexuals do the same. Both are mutually exclusive of the other. Kinda like atheists and Christians.
Paul, writing the book of Roman's, says that homosexuality is the result of sin. That the universe is doing its best to erase any form of progeny that a homosexual might want...it wants rid of sinful people and homosexuality is its method of doing so.
So, can homosexuality become a cultural influence like Sodom and Gomorrah without the internal identity forming in a person? Probably so. But there's a LOT of sin hardwired into person by that point.
Nobody else that I know or seen has such a pride over a sin. Nobody proudly proclaims "I'm a thief", "I'm a serial adulterer", "I'm a child abuser" or "I'm a junkie" . But when it comes to homosexuality they are proud of it?
So how does it work? We have seen in the scriptures how pride in following the Law caused people to form self-righteousness...making them hopelessly lost to the point that they never will be saved. Pride in sinful behavior can't be any better. Might be worse. I just don't know.
There's evidence going both ways.
Just as an opinion with all that I've seen and witnessed and read.....
It's an identity problem. And an identity is created by a person's experiences and knowledge and desires/fears. Each person has a unique set. We group ourselves in affinity groups. We Christians think alike in many ways so we hang out together. (Even though we do disagree on theologies often)
Homosexuals do the same. Both are mutually exclusive of the other. Kinda like atheists and Christians.
Paul, writing the book of Roman's, says that homosexuality is the result of sin. That the universe is doing its best to erase any form of progeny that a homosexual might want...it wants rid of sinful people and homosexuality is its method of doing so.
So, can homosexuality become a cultural influence like Sodom and Gomorrah without the internal identity forming in a person? Probably so. But there's a LOT of sin hardwired into person by that point.
Nobody else that I know or seen has such a pride over a sin. Nobody proudly proclaims "I'm a thief", "I'm a serial adulterer", "I'm a child abuser" or "I'm a junkie" . But when it comes to homosexuality they are proud of it?
So how does it work? We have seen in the scriptures how pride in following the Law caused people to form self-righteousness...making them hopelessly lost to the point that they never will be saved. Pride in sinful behavior can't be any better. Might be worse. I just don't know.
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Thanks for replying.
Thanks for replying.
You mention 1Cor6. This is a "hotbed of contention". Pastor Steven Anderson stated a view of which I'd previously wondered. He said this had to be taken in context. Ie - Paul was warning of the Christian church tending to revert to the World's teaching.
Christians were suing others in "pagan courts". Paul was effectively saying - "Why are you turning to the World to deal with matters? Look at the World!". He then lists a few attributes of the World, citing a few sins, seemingly including homosexuality (I say "seemingly" as some of the translations of the Greek words are disputed).
The orthodox view of this is that every one of the sins stated in 1Cor6 was "represented" by at least one of that congregation. I, and Anderson think this is by no means necessarily the case. He may well have been merely saying, in effect "This is what the world is like." Saying "Such were some of you" seems by no means to mean that some of the Corinthian congregation had specifically engaged in homosexuality - merely they had been like the World - engaging in a sinful manner, without a care for God's righteous standards. If Paul had cited the entirety of the 613 (not sure of that exact number) of the Mosaic Law, instead of the few of the ones that he did, would that have meant that the Corinthian congregation had specifically broken ALL those laws.
I'll respond to the east of your input later.
Have you read Romans chapter 1 for yourself?
Romans chapter 1
[26] For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
[27] And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
[28] And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
[29] Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
[30] Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
[31] Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
[32] Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
What about those who have been given over to a reprobate mind?
Can they be saved?
You know, fornicators, the covetous, deceivers, backbiters, boasters, those who are disobedient to their parents, etc., etc., etc.
If you ask me, then the key thing to understand here is the following:
"WHO KNOWING THE JUDGMENT OF GOD, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."
Do you honestly believe that all homosexuals, fornicators, deceivers, backbiters, and the like KNOW that the judgment of God comes upon such and yet not only continue in the same themselves, but also take pleasure in others who do likewise?
OR is is possible that they don't yet possess such KNOWLEDGE and are doing things that seem acceptable to them based upon this world's standards?
As Christians, we're called to preach the gospel to every creature.
There's a HUGE DIFFERENCE between those who are IGNORANT (or who genuinely don't yet possess this type of KNOWLEDGE) and those who are WILLFULLY IGNORANT.
Anyhow, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Steven Anderson winds up in hell himself, even though I take absolutely no pleasure in even suggesting the same.
Seriously, avoid that guy (unless you're going to try to reason with him that he might be saved) like the plague that he is.
Romans chapter 1
[26] For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
[27] And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
[28] And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
[29] Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
[30] Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
[31] Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
[32] Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
What about those who have been given over to a reprobate mind?
Can they be saved?
You know, fornicators, the covetous, deceivers, backbiters, boasters, those who are disobedient to their parents, etc., etc., etc.
If you ask me, then the key thing to understand here is the following:
"WHO KNOWING THE JUDGMENT OF GOD, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."
Do you honestly believe that all homosexuals, fornicators, deceivers, backbiters, and the like KNOW that the judgment of God comes upon such and yet not only continue in the same themselves, but also take pleasure in others who do likewise?
OR is is possible that they don't yet possess such KNOWLEDGE and are doing things that seem acceptable to them based upon this world's standards?
As Christians, we're called to preach the gospel to every creature.
There's a HUGE DIFFERENCE between those who are IGNORANT (or who genuinely don't yet possess this type of KNOWLEDGE) and those who are WILLFULLY IGNORANT.
Anyhow, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Steven Anderson winds up in hell himself, even though I take absolutely no pleasure in even suggesting the same.
Seriously, avoid that guy (unless you're going to try to reason with him that he might be saved) like the plague that he is.
Thanks for replying.
An important question is "Can ANY specific individual be saved?" While this might be met with an immediate "Yes", some consideration is I think in order. What about the unforgivable sin? Many interpret this in different ways. Some say there is a sin from which there is no recovery. What about the "sin unto death" (I think in James)"? What about the material in Rom1, where it says "God gave them (homosexuals) up to vile affections", implying to many that they are list, without hope?
I see your point that other sins are mentioned in this passage - not just homosexuality.
I think Anderson's stance is extreme. He does have a great hatred for these people. I've speculated whether his fury is partly caused by bad, personal experiences of being accosted in his youth. I hope that is not the case.
I'm happy that you see my point, so let me expound upon it a bit.
Romans chapter 1
[20] For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
[21] Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
[22] Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
[23] And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
[24] Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
[25] Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
[26] For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
[27] And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
For what cause?
Well, just read the verse IN CONTEXT.
Paul was talking about those who "were without excuse" or those "who knew God", and then "became vain in their imaginations" or those who "changed the truth of God into a lie".
Again, do you HONESTLY believe that this describes all homosexuals?
Of course, it doesn't.
Context is everything.
Steven Anderson is a hate-filled heretic.
Romans chapter 1
[20] For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
[21] Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
[22] Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
[23] And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
[24] Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
[25] Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
[26] For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
[27] And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
For what cause?
Well, just read the verse IN CONTEXT.
Paul was talking about those who "were without excuse" or those "who knew God", and then "became vain in their imaginations" or those who "changed the truth of God into a lie".
Again, do you HONESTLY believe that this describes all homosexuals?
Of course, it doesn't.
Context is everything.
Steven Anderson is a hate-filled heretic.
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