Is Calvinism the truth?

[FreeGrace2]

The One who gives the options, He only has free Sovereign will.

Who is talking about "free Sovereign will" among men? No one. We are talking about the freedom to choose to believe God's promise or not.

Man is so wicked that if he had freewill he would say to God "I choose neither of Your options ... but I refuse to die, I refuse to take the consequences"

Your imagination is rather wild today. Where do you get this from?

That's how the devil tricked us in the first place, he said "you will not die" in other words "you can do as you like, it's your freewill"

Apparently you aren't that familiar with Genesis. The woman had the freedom to believe Satan or not. Adam had been told directly and then taught the woman. But apparently she wasn't a good listener.

The doctrine of human freewill is that deception.

If man doesn't have the freedom to believe the gospel promise, then man is nothing more than a puppet, with God as the Sovereign puppet master.

I totally reject puppet theology.

 

[Evmur]

In the Greek, genders much match to be related in a sentence.

Eph 2:8
For it is by grace (feminine) you have been saved (masculine), through faith (feminine)--and this (neuter) is not from yourselves, it is the gift (masculine) of God--

So you see, grace and faith are feminine while salvation and God's gift are masculine.

So the gift CANNOT be "faith". Impossible in the Greek. Check it out for yourself at biblehub.com.


The gospel is NOT a spiritual issue. It is a trust issue.

Acts 14:23 - Paul and Barnabas appointed elders for them in each church and, with prayer and fasting, committed them to the Lord, in whom they had put their trust.

The bolded words refer to those who believed in Jesus Christ. Putting their trust in Christ means to trust in His work on the cross for salvation.


Yes it is.

Titus 2:11 - For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. Very clear. God offers the promise of salvation and saves those who believe His promise.


The Bible has many verses that plainly say that people refuse to believe and refuse to repent.

Are you not aware that in order to REFUSE to do something clearly implies the ABILITY to do it?

But you quoted yourself that faith was not of ourselves [lest any flesh boast in God's presence]

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
So you seem to acknowledge that Jesus promised of being delivered (meaning saved eternally). So, please explain to the best of your ability what Jesus promised for Him to save anyone eternally.

From your "word choice" about how a person is saved eternally, your answer is simply, in so many words, God chooses before He created the world those He would "give" His Son.

So then, there is nothing any person can do to be saved. It was all determined before the foundation of the world. By the time people are born, their eternal destiny has already been chosen or determined.

Interesting. Then Paul's answer to the jailer about what he MUST DO to be saved was to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ was totally wrong.

If that jailer had asked someone of your confusion, he would have been told, "well, there isn't anything you can do. It was already decided before God created the world."

You sound just like those, documented, critics of Jesus when he preached the same doctrine for 21 years of his life here on earth. some, being his own disciples.

Could you actually point out where I "sound like the critics of Jesus"?

John 6:60 - Many therefore of his own disciples, when they heard this, said, this is an hard saying, who can hear it?

What is your point here?

Mark 4:11 - And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God, but unto them that are without, all things are done in parables.

Are you really not aware of exactly who Jesus was talking to? It certainly wasn't either of us. He told that to His own 12 disciples.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
In the Greek, genders much match to be related in a sentence.

Eph 2:8
For it is by grace (feminine) you have been saved (masculine), through faith (feminine)--and this (neuter) is not from yourselves, it is the gift (masculine) of God--

So you see, grace and faith are feminine while salvation and God's gift are masculine.

So the gift CANNOT be "faith". Impossible in the Greek. Check it out for yourself at biblehub.com.

But you quoted yourself that faith was not of ourselves [lest any flesh boast in God's presence]

How about just dealing with what I posted above? Can you do it? I proved to you that faith is NOT a gift of God in Eph 2:8.

 

[Evmur]

Who is talking about "free Sovereign will" among men? No one. We are talking about the freedom to choose to believe God's promise or not.


Your imagination is rather wild today. Where do you get this from?


Apparently you aren't that familiar with Genesis. The woman had the freedom to believe Satan or not. Adam had been told directly and then taught the woman. But apparently she wasn't a good listener.


If man doesn't have the freedom to believe the gospel promise, then man is nothing more than a puppet, with God as the Sovereign puppet master.

I totally reject puppet theology.

Eve was deceived ... tricked we know Satan can be pretty persuasive he turned the minds of the whole Galatian church.

We are not puppets, we are created beings and God is our Creator

We's like sheep Jesus said that. Do sheep have freewill? no they follow their shepherd. They ARE silly and stray and get lost
There is scarcely a more sorry thing in this world than a sheep who has gotten lost.

 

[Evmur]

FreeGrace2 said:
In the Greek, genders much match to be related in a sentence.

Eph 2:8
For it is by grace (feminine) you have been saved (masculine), through faith (feminine)--and this (neuter) is not from yourselves, it is the gift (masculine) of God--

So you see, grace and faith are feminine while salvation and God's gift are masculine.

So the gift CANNOT be "faith". Impossible in the Greek. Check it out for yourself at biblehub.com.

How about just dealing with what I posted above? Can you do it? I proved to you that faith is NOT a gift of God in Eph 2:8.

pershaw you did ... There is no good thing that dwelleth in us that is in our flesh. Faith is one of the 3 eternals

 

[Evmur]

.. be back later

 

[Magenta]

1 John 2 v 2
"[Jesus] is the propitiation for our sins and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world"

1 John 2:1-2

 

[FreeGrace2]

We are not puppets, we are created beings and God is our Creator

If man is not free to choose to believe the gospel promise, then we ARE only puppets. You are kidding yourself to claim otherwise.

We's like sheep Jesus said that. Do sheep have freewill?

You should understand that NO figure of speech is exactly like what it represents.

However, it appears that you haven't considered this verse:

John 10:5 - But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger’s voice.”

Even sheep are free to make choices; like rejecting strangers and following their shepherd. Literal sheep, mind you.

no they follow their shepherd.

This is a choice.

They ARE silly and stray and get lost

sheep are among the stupidest of animals.

 

[FreeGrace2]

pershaw you did ... There is no good thing that dwelleth in us that is in our flesh. Faith is one of the 3 eternals

OK, it is clear that you have stomach for Greek grammar, even though it was the language that gave us the NT. Your bad.

If "faith is one of the 3 eternals" what does that mean and prove it from Scripture.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Only those who listen and learn from the Father will "come to Me". Those who have listened and learned are believers. They are the ones who come to Jesus.

You have summed it all up in your last statement; And who is it that listen and learn? The answer is HIS SHEEP. The others believe not because they are not of his sheep (John 10:26-29).

 

[ForestGreenCook]

sheep are among the stupidest of animals.

There are so many reasons why you are blinded to the truth. This statement being one of them.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Could you actually point out where I "sound like the critics of Jesus"?

You are criticising his doctrine. Go back and read your posts.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Only those who listen and learn from the Father will "come to Me". Those who have listened and learned are believers. They are the ones who come to Jesus.

You have summed it all up in your last statement; And who is it that listen and learn? The answer is HIS SHEEP.

Oh, excuse me, but the contexts of John 6 and John 10 are DIFFERENT. Maybe you missed that fact.

John 5:2 mentions "sheep". Do you even know when the next verse mentions "sheep"? John 10:2. Missed ch 6 totally.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
sheep are among the stupidest of animals.

There are so many reasons why you are blinded to the truth. This statement being one of them.

You brought up how "silly" sheep act when they get lost. I just noted the fact. Ask any sheep herder. They will tell you just how stupid sheep are.

But, never mind facts, since your mind is already made up.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Could you actually point out where I "sound like the critics of Jesus"?

You are criticising his doctrine.

You continue to be confused. I have criticised YOUR doctrine, not biblical doctrine.

Go back and read your posts.

I DARE you to find even 1 quote from me that criticizes biblical doctrine. But of course you won't bother. Because you know I haven't done it.

 

[49]

The following is an excerpt from the link arthurfleminger provided in an earlier post. The last sentence is an all too familiar scenario...

John Calvin: Heresy Hunter with an Axe to Grind | A Theology in Tension

Whether you agree with Calvin’s view or defend his actions because he was “a man of his times,” many Christians find the idea of executing heretics to be shocking. This brings up another point for another post, but consider for a moment if murder was legal in our time. If it were, I think we’d have a lot of dead Christians who lost their lives to other Christians over doctrinal trespasses. If you think I’m wrong, just watch the vitriol and hatred in many “Christian” online forums as they verbally bludgeon one another over theological interpretations.

Hmm...

 

[Evmur]

OK, it is clear that you have stomach for Greek grammar, even though it was the language that gave us the NT. Your bad.

If "faith is one of the 3 eternals" what does that mean and prove it from Scripture.

Yes but William Tynedale did have a stomach for Greek grammar and I am perfectly satisfied with his translation of that sentence that faith is not of ourselves but a gift [lest any flesh should boast in God's presence] .... it is never wrong to boast of God's grace, so the boasting must refer to the faith.

1 Corinthians 13.
after all else is done away, knowledge. prophecy. tongues etc these 3 abide faith, hope and love and the greatest of these is love.

Faith is an attribute of God, in truth the faith we have is His faith ... even if He commends us for it .... God is like that.

 

[Evmur]

If man is not free to choose to believe the gospel promise, then we ARE only puppets. You are kidding yourself to claim otherwise.


You should understand that NO figure of speech is exactly like what it represents.

However, it appears that you haven't considered this verse:

John 10:5 - But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger’s voice.”

Even sheep are free to make choices; like rejecting strangers and following their shepherd. Literal sheep, mind you.


This is a choice.


sheep are among the stupidest of animals.

This is to misapprehend what we are if I may say.

Puppets are controlled from outside, when we are going aright it is God working His will THROUGH us to do of His good pleasure ... isn't that what we truly desire?

See? that's what we are created for, that's what man IS, the dwelling place of God. When Jesus comes to dwell in us we have come home. HE is the Pearl of great price, surely we will sell all we have to have Him. He sets up His kingdom in us and reigns and brings everything we need to us.

I once explained all that to a man who was about to commit suicide and he got saved instead. ... coulda warned him he would go to hell and he prolly would have said I don't care, but he got saved. Praise the Lord.

 

[Evmur]

The following is an excerpt from the link arthurfleminger provided in an earlier post. The last sentence is an all too familiar scenario...

John Calvin: Heresy Hunter with an Axe to Grind | A Theology in Tension

Whether you agree with Calvin’s view or defend his actions because he was “a man of his times,” many Christians find the idea of executing heretics to be shocking. This brings up another point for another post, but consider for a moment if murder was legal in our time. If it were, I think we’d have a lot of dead Christians who lost their lives to other Christians over doctrinal trespasses. If you think I’m wrong, just watch the vitriol and hatred in many “Christian” online forums as they verbally bludgeon one another over theological interpretations.

Hmm...

It is extremely difficult for us to put ourselves into the mind of 17th century Europeans ... those days were extremely dark days and the gospel light had just begun to shine into their hearts and minds.

In every age seems like folks have tried to create a pure Christian society, it always ends being enforced through the legislator, you simply can't legislate righteousness. Geneva was such an attempt.

Let us not forget that protestants from Spain, France and Britain all fled for refuge in Calvin's Geneva and found it.