And the SMOKE of their torment...No eternal damnation for anyone, except the Devil

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FreeGrace2

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Runningman said:
22. The church has always believed in ECT.

Thanks for that one because that’s certainly falsifiable based off the Bible and eary church literature.
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Let's just be real clear. The Bible shows that all unbelievers will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

That's what happens to those who will be thrown into the LOF. Every one of them.

If that weren't true, then there would be a verse at least that explains WHY not every one will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

And, guess what. There are no explanatory verses. So there is no reason to believe that.
 
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FreeGrace2

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Runningman said:
Now you must own this:
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Oh, this is rich.

Catholics, Muslims, and pagans believe in eternal conscious torment.
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And YOU own this: atheists believe in annihilation of the soul.

ECT for all of the unsaved isn’t found in the Bible and it isn’t in some early church literature.
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It doesn't matter how many times you repeat this mantra of yours. It is in the Bible, but since you believe that ECT is CRUEL, and you won't claim that God is CRUEL, you simply reject ECT.

God isn't CRUEL, and all unbelievers will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Why? Because of their own choices. God is being FAIR, not CRUEL.

Since that’s the case, you must own this: Catholics, Muslims, and pagans believe in the same thing that you do, thus making you have more in common with non-Christians than Biblical Christians such as kleronomos, Magenta, and myself.
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Well, as far as "ownership" goes, atheists believe what you believe about souls.

btw, are you going to answer my question in post 1998?
 
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Runningman

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Jackson123 said:
Death can only physical, that is why death rich man able to fell thirsty
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Using scripture, prove the soul of the unsaved is immortal. The parable of the rich man and Lazarus is on an island by itself. There aren’t any other examples of such a thing.

Show me some doctrine by Paul or Christ where either one teaches that “only the physical body can die.” Thanks
 
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Jackson123

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FreeGrace2 said:
Oh, this is rich.


And YOU own this: atheists believe in annihilation of the soul.


It doesn't matter how many times you repeat this mantra of yours. It is in the Bible, but since you believe that ECT is CRUEL, and you won't claim that God is CRUEL, you simply reject ECT.

God isn't CRUEL, and all unbelievers will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Why? Because of their own choices. God is being FAIR, not CRUEL.


Well, as far as "ownership" goes, atheists believe what you believe about souls.

btw, are you going to answer my question in post 1998?
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I never understand, no ECT because God not cruel than believe ECT for devil and false prophet?
so, you believe if God do ECT for devil not cruel, but if apply for other human cruel?
inconsistence isn’t it?
I repeat this question more then 3 x nsver unswerving
 
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FreeGrace2

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Jackson123 said:
I never understand, no ECT because God not cruel than believe ECT for devil and false prophet?
so, you believe if God do ECT for devil not cruel, but if apply for other human cruel?
inconsistence isn’t it?
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I repeat this question more then 3 x nsver unswerving
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These guys won't ever answer questions that reveal their errors.
 
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FreeGrace2

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Runningman said:
Using scripture, prove the soul of the unsaved is immortal.
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Easy. But you just won't accept the truth. When considering the fact that 2 humans will be cast into the LOF 1,000 years BEFORE the devil will join THEM, and they are STILL THERE in Rev 20:10, it's extremely clear that they have been tormented for 1,000 years.

And I'm not talking about their bodies. Their bodies will have died the second time.

Are you going to answer my question in post 1998?

The parable of the rich man and Lazarus is on an island by itself.
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Well, that's an interesting way to describe your confusion over the matter.

Rather than being a parable, it is an account of 2 real human beings, one rich and one poor, both of whom died and their souls went to Hades, one to Paradise, also called Abraham's bosom (another real person) and the other to "torments", where he was obviously very uncomfortable, to say the least.

To claim this is a fantasy story and credit Jesus with telling a tall tale is unacceptable. Absurd, really.

There aren’t any other examples of such a thing.
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How many accounts of what happened to people after they died in OT times would it take for you to finally accept reality?

Show me some doctrine by Paul or Christ where either one teaches that “only the physical body can die.” Thanks
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1 Corinthians 15 is the BEST chapter in the Bible about resurrection. And there is no mention of souls being resurrected. That's why I asked my question in post 1998.

The subject of resurrection only applies to bodies being raised from their death state, back to life. But for believers, their bodies will be glorified, just like Jesus' body was, to live forever with God. For unbelievers their physically raised to life bodies will DIE AGAIN when cast into the LOF, but they, like the beast, FP and all fallen angels, will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

I'll ask for evidence like you just did.

"Show me some doctrine by Paul or Christ where either one teaches that" the GWT crowd WON'T get the same fate as everyone before them will get when thrown into the LOF.

You believe it will be different for the GWT crowd but where is that taught clearly in the Bible?
 
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Runningman

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Jackson123 said:
I never understand, no ECT because God not cruel than believe ECT for devil and false prophet?
so, you believe if God do ECT for devil not cruel, but if apply for other human cruel?
inconsistence isn’t it?
I repeat this question more then 3 x nsver unswerving
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Jackson, you’ve never once asked me that specific question. Nor have I noticed you have ever asked anyone that question 3 times.
 
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FreeGrace2

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Jackson123 said:
I never understand, no ECT because God not cruel than believe ECT for devil and false prophet?
so, you believe if God do ECT for devil not cruel, but if apply for other human cruel?
inconsistence isn’t it?
I repeat this question more then 3 x nsver unswerving
Runningman said:
Jackson, you’ve never once asked me that specific question. Nor have I noticed you have ever asked anyone that question 3 times.
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Rather than just trying to argue about how many or if he ever asked you that question, why don't you just answer the question?

It seems you just do not want to answer tough questions.
 
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Runningman

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Jackson123 said:
Ok Runningman, than answer
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I’ve tried to answer your questions and ask my own questions, but when I try you said “Answer my question first” which I did, but then you won’t answer my questions afterwards. 🤔

In post #1,723 that’s what you did.

furthermore, your current question isn’t anything I have ever said. I don’t need to answer questions you assign to me if you won’t even answer my questions.

Or are you unwilling answer my question because if you did it would reveal your errors?
 
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Jackson123

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Runningman said:
I’ve tried to answer your questions and ask my own questions, but when I try you said “Answer my question first” which I did, but then you won’t answer my questions afterwards. 🤔

In post #1,723 that’s what you did.

furthermore, your current question isn’t anything I have ever said. I don’t need to answer questions you assign to me if you won’t even answer my questions.

Or are you unwilling answer my question because if you did it would reveal your errors?
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Repeat your question here
 
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Runningman

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Jackson123 said:
Death is death, but soul never death
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Okay I disagree.

If I understand your question correctly, your position is you believe I think God is cruel. So you’re asking me if God is cruel?

The answer is no.

Here’s what you need to know about God.

Psalm 136 KJV
1O give thanks unto the LORD; for he isgood: for his mercy endureth for ever.

2O give thanks unto the God of gods: for his mercy endureth for ever.

3O give thanks to the Lord of lords: for his mercy endureth for ever.

4To him who alone doeth great wonders: for his mercy endureth for ever.

5To him that by wisdom made the heavens: for his mercy endureth for ever.

6To him that stretched out the earth above the waters: for his mercy endureth for ever.

7To him that made great lights: for his mercy endureth for ever:

8The sun to rule by day: for his mercy endureth for ever:

9The moon and stars to rule by night: for his mercy endureth for ever.

10To him that smote Egypt in their firstborn: for his mercy endureth for ever:

11And brought out Israel from among them: for his mercy endureth for ever:

12With a strong hand, and with a stretched out arm: for his mercy endureth for ever.

13To him which divided the Red sea into parts: for his mercy endureth for ever:

14And made Israel to pass through the midst of it: for his mercy endureth for ever:

15But overthrew Pharaoh and his host in the Red sea: for his mercy endureth for ever.

16To him which led his people through the wilderness: for his mercy endureth for ever.

17To him which smote great kings: for his mercy endureth for ever:

18And slew famous kings: for his mercy endureth for ever:

19Sihon king of the Amorites: for his mercy endureth for ever:

20And Og the king of Bashan: for his mercy endureth for ever:

21And gave their land for an heritage: for his mercy endureth for ever:

22Even an heritage unto Israel his servant: for his mercy endureth for ever.

23Who remembered us in our low estate: for his mercy endureth for ever:

24And hath redeemed us from our enemies: for his mercy endureth for ever.

25Who giveth food to all flesh: for his mercy endureth for ever.

26O give thanks unto the God of heaven: for his mercy endureth for ever.
 
K

kleronomos

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Lucy-Pevensie said:
What The Bible Says.


"Rev 9:4 they were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any green growth or any tree, but only those of mankind who have not the seal of God upon their foreheads;

5 they were allowed to torture them for five months, but not to kill them, and their torture was like the torture of a scorpion, when it stings a man.

6 And in those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will long to die, and death will fly from them."


"death is what they want" is your spin.

What some of us have told you is that no consequenses for sin is what they want. Annhilation instead of punishment.
suits those who reject God.
Physical death is irrelevant when we are discussing what happens AFTER DEATH. People know that they will die.

You know this.
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Their torment comes in Hell which is of a limited time and of this age,

not the 2nd death WHICH your verse just proved is DIFFERENT than torment
 
J

Jackson123

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Feb 6, 2014
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Runningman said:
Okay I disagree.

If I understand your question correctly, your position is you believe I think God is cruel. So you’re asking me if God is cruel?

The answer is no.

Here’s what you need to know about God.

Psalm 136 KJV
1O give thanks unto the LORD; for he isgood: for his mercy endureth for ever.

2O give thanks unto the God of gods: for his mercy endureth for ever.

3O give thanks to the Lord of lords: for his mercy endureth for ever.

4To him who alone doeth great wonders: for his mercy endureth for ever.

5To him that by wisdom made the heavens: for his mercy endureth for ever.

6To him that stretched out the earth above the waters: for his mercy endureth for ever.

7To him that made great lights: for his mercy endureth for ever:

8The sun to rule by day: for his mercy endureth for ever:

9The moon and stars to rule by night: for his mercy endureth for ever.

10To him that smote Egypt in their firstborn: for his mercy endureth for ever:

11And brought out Israel from among them: for his mercy endureth for ever:

12With a strong hand, and with a stretched out arm: for his mercy endureth for ever.

13To him which divided the Red sea into parts: for his mercy endureth for ever:

14And made Israel to pass through the midst of it: for his mercy endureth for ever:

15But overthrew Pharaoh and his host in the Red sea: for his mercy endureth for ever.

16To him which led his people through the wilderness: for his mercy endureth for ever.

17To him which smote great kings: for his mercy endureth for ever:

18And slew famous kings: for his mercy endureth for ever:

19Sihon king of the Amorites: for his mercy endureth for ever:

20And Og the king of Bashan: for his mercy endureth for ever:

21And gave their land for an heritage: for his mercy endureth for ever:

22Even an heritage unto Israel his servant: for his mercy endureth for ever.

23Who remembered us in our low estate: for his mercy endureth for ever:

24And hath redeemed us from our enemies: for his mercy endureth for ever.

25Who giveth food to all flesh: for his mercy endureth for ever.

26O give thanks unto the God of heaven: for his mercy endureth for ever.
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you don’t understand my question

let me repeat it

the reason you don’t believe on eternal punishment mean conscious soul being torment forever is God not cruel am I correct?

than why you believe devil and beast go to eternal torment
 
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Runningman

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Jackson123 said:
you don’t understand my question

let me repeat it

the reason you don’t believe on eternal punishment mean conscious soul being torment forever is God not cruel am I correct?

than why you believe devil and beast go to eternal torment
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I don’t believe in ECT for all of the unsaved because it isn’t in the Bible. That makes God merciful. Again, my answer is God isn’t cruel.

I don’t know if the devil, beast, and false prophet is literal eternal torment. If it’s literal then once again God isn’t cruel.

What answer were you expecting from me?
 
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