And the SMOKE of their torment...No eternal damnation for anyone, except the Devil
- Thread starter kleronomos
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Many lies.
So far there are 17 lies I’m aware of:
“The X Lies of Eternal Conscious Torment”
01 death isn’t death
02. destroy isn’t destroy
03. people who are destroyed don’t cease to exist
04. death can’t be a punishment
05. the unsaved soul is immortal
06. the immortal soul of the unsaved has eternal life
07. God will not destroy all souls of the unsaved in hell because Matt 10:28 only says “able to.”
08. If a word definition isn’t helpful then change the definition. If a Greek or Hebrew word isn’t translated to a preferred way then choose a different translation.
09. Death is nothing to fear (clearly against what the Bible says).
10. Death is what they want (clearly against what the Bible says).
11. If you believe what the Bible says you are not a Christian.
12. If you believe what the Bible says you are a JW.
13. If you believe what the Bible says, you are an SDA.
14. If you believe what the Bible says, you are promoting new age beliefs.
15. If you believe what the Bible says, you do not believe what the Bible says.
16. The parable of the rich man and Lazarus is not a parable (despite Scripture which says Jesus only taught in parables).
17. All things will not be made new despite Scripture saying otherwise.
What gives is that the lie of ECT has a foundation upon false pretenses and false assumptions from start to finish. See the list above. Once they’ve been believing in lies for possibly decades it sorta becomes their truth.
I’ve noticed how this thread started versus how it ended up. People were quoting all sorts of verses about eternal fire, eternal smoke, eternal worms, the rich man & Lazarus parable, etc and then once it was pointed out that literally none of them say eternal torment they stopped quoting them. Now they are mostly confined to two verses. This tells me they never really thought this through before. I just see they’re clinging to a sinking ship.
So far there are 17 lies I’m aware of:
“The X Lies of Eternal Conscious Torment”
01 death isn’t death
02. destroy isn’t destroy
03. people who are destroyed don’t cease to exist
04. death can’t be a punishment
05. the unsaved soul is immortal
06. the immortal soul of the unsaved has eternal life
07. God will not destroy all souls of the unsaved in hell because Matt 10:28 only says “able to.”
08. If a word definition isn’t helpful then change the definition. If a Greek or Hebrew word isn’t translated to a preferred way then choose a different translation.
09. Death is nothing to fear (clearly against what the Bible says).
10. Death is what they want (clearly against what the Bible says).
11. If you believe what the Bible says you are not a Christian.
12. If you believe what the Bible says you are a JW.
13. If you believe what the Bible says, you are an SDA.
14. If you believe what the Bible says, you are promoting new age beliefs.
15. If you believe what the Bible says, you do not believe what the Bible says.
16. The parable of the rich man and Lazarus is not a parable (despite Scripture which says Jesus only taught in parables).
17. All things will not be made new despite Scripture saying otherwise.
Many Bible verses say man is mortal. But ECTers insist man is immortal. What gives??? 
I’ve noticed how this thread started versus how it ended up. People were quoting all sorts of verses about eternal fire, eternal smoke, eternal worms, the rich man & Lazarus parable, etc and then once it was pointed out that literally none of them say eternal torment they stopped quoting them. Now they are mostly confined to two verses. This tells me they never really thought this through before. I just see they’re clinging to a sinking ship.
18. If you believe the unsaved do not have ECT then you’re in league with atheists.
19. If you believe the unsaved do not have ECT then you’re overly sympathetic, hyper emotional, maudlin, etc.
20. Death in the Bible only refers to death of the physical body.
I’ll try to think of more as my day goes on. I might reorder this list so it’s organized a bit better. Thank you!
19. If you believe the unsaved do not have ECT then you’re overly sympathetic, hyper emotional, maudlin, etc.
20. Death in the Bible only refers to death of the physical body.
I’ll try to think of more as my day goes on. I might reorder this list so it’s organized a bit better. Thank you!
-
1
- Show all
God puts the choice of life or death before us.
That means ECT is not an option.
But you believe a misapplied implication while rejecting many explicit verses.
Including: God alone is immortal.
The implication and explicitly stated outcome all through Scripture is that we are reconciled
to God and attain to life ever after only by grace through faith. So sad you reject that, too.
Our God is a Consuming Fire
That means ECT is not an option.
But you believe a misapplied implication while rejecting many explicit verses.
Including: God alone is immortal.
The implication and explicitly stated outcome all through Scripture is that we are reconciled
to God and attain to life ever after only by grace through faith. So sad you reject that, too.
Our God is a Consuming Fire
What The Bible Says.
"Rev 9:4 they were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any green growth or any tree, but only those of mankind who have not the seal of God upon their foreheads;
5 they were allowed to torture them for five months, but not to kill them, and their torture was like the torture of a scorpion, when it stings a man.
6 And in those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will long to die, and death will fly from them."
"death is what they want" is your spin.
What some of us have told you is that no consequenses for sin is what they want. Annhilation instead of punishment.
suits those who reject God.
Physical death is irrelevant when we are discussing what happens AFTER DEATH. People know that they will die.
You know this.
"Rev 9:4 they were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any green growth or any tree, but only those of mankind who have not the seal of God upon their foreheads;
5 they were allowed to torture them for five months, but not to kill them, and their torture was like the torture of a scorpion, when it stings a man.
6 And in those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will long to die, and death will fly from them."
"death is what they want" is your spin.
What some of us have told you is that no consequenses for sin is what they want. Annhilation instead of punishment.
suits those who reject God.
Physical death is irrelevant when we are discussing what happens AFTER DEATH. People know that they will die.
You know this.
The Bible teaches eternal punishment.
You may not be a JW but if your statements deny both The Bible & the teaching of The Church in favour of a JW doctrine,
you are in error. Own it.
Below =Not my beliefs but those of The Watchtower. And the teaching of annhilationists in this thread.
" [Most churches] hold to the unscriptural doctrine that man has an immortal soul. 'Is that teaching so bad?' some may wonder. Do not forget that Satan's first lie was that sin would not bring death.the teaching that man has an immortal soul tends to further Satan's lie"
Happiness - How to Find It, Brooklyn,NY: The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, 1980, p. 171.
*
"Death. People who die pass out of existence. (Psalm 146:4; Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10) They do not suffer in a fiery hell of torment.
God will bring billions back from death by means of a resurrection. (Acts 24:15) However, those who refuse to learn God’s ways after being raised to life will be destroyed forever with no hope of a resurrection.—Revelation 20:14, 15."
jw.org Bible Teachings - Questions When you die
kleronomos said:
Is God able to destroy a soul?
Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Guaranteed second death of the physical body of unbelievers.
Is God able to destroy a soul?
Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Guaranteed second death of the physical body of unbelievers.
Put the false annihilation doctrine under your feet where it belongs. Along with all the arrogant lies, accusations &
passive-aggressive whining of it's supporters.
The righteous Church has always rejected the annihilation/"conditional mortality" lie and continues to do so.
We will stay on the narrow path & not be deceived. We will not preach a watered-down Gospel.
passive-aggressive whining of it's supporters.
The righteous Church has always rejected the annihilation/"conditional mortality" lie and continues to do so.
We will stay on the narrow path & not be deceived. We will not preach a watered-down Gospel.
-
1
- Show all
A question for the annihilationists:
What happens to the soul and body of unbelievers when they physically die? Please address the soul. I'm not clear about what you think happens. One of you at one time said something about the soul being resurrected, which I've never heard before, and never have read in the Bible.
Thank you.
What happens to the soul and body of unbelievers when they physically die? Please address the soul. I'm not clear about what you think happens. One of you at one time said something about the soul being resurrected, which I've never heard before, and never have read in the Bible.
Thank you.
Now you must own this:
Catholics, Muslims, and pagans believe in eternal conscious torment.
ECT for all of the unsaved isn’t found in the Bible and it isn’t in some early church literature.
Since that’s the case, you must own this: Catholics, Muslims, and pagans believe in the same thing that you do, thus making you have more in common with non-Christians than Biblical Christians such as kleronomos, Magenta, and myself.
Catholics, Muslims, and pagans believe in eternal conscious torment.
ECT for all of the unsaved isn’t found in the Bible and it isn’t in some early church literature.
Since that’s the case, you must own this: Catholics, Muslims, and pagans believe in the same thing that you do, thus making you have more in common with non-Christians than Biblical Christians such as kleronomos, Magenta, and myself.