BELIEFS ABOUT THE KJV

[Nehemiah6]

Just to help other Christians not to be deceived by the recycled serpentine lies of the KJV propaganda machine. If you are a young Christian don't be bullied. The diety of Christ is declared openly in modern English Bibles.

This is rich coming from a propagandist for CORRUPT BIBLES! And if you want to prove that the last statement is false just go to 1 Timothy 3:16 and see the attack on the deity of Christ in those corrupt bibles. So now the word "bullied" has been introduced into the discussion to intimidate people who stand for the truth.

King James Bible
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

English Standard Version (all modern versions have "he" or "who" which could even mean the archangel Michael)
Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

RECEIVED TEXT: θεὸς = THEOS = GOD = CHRIST
RP Byzantine Majority Text 2005
Καὶ ὁμολογουμένως μέγα ἐστὶν τὸ τῆς εὐσεβείας μυστήριον· θεὸς ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί, ἐδικαιώθη ἐν πνεύματι, ὤφθη ἀγγέλοις, ἐκηρύχθη ἐν ἔθνεσιν, ἐπιστεύθη ἐν κόσμῳ, ἀνελήφθη ἐν δόξῃ.
Greek Orthodox Church 1904
καὶ ὁμολογουμένως μέγα ἐστὶ τὸ τῆς εὐσεβείας μυστήριον· Θεὸς ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί, ἐδικαιώθη ἐν Πνεύματι, ὤφθη ἀγγέλοις, ἐκηρύχθη ἐν ἔθνεσιν, ἐπιστεύθη ἐν κόσμῳ, ἀνελήφθη ἐν δόξῃ.
Scrivener's Textus Receptus 1894
καὶ ὁμολογουμένως μέγα ἐστὶ τὸ τῆς εὐσεβείας μυστήριον· Θεὸς ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί, ἐδικαιώθη ἐν πνεύματι, ὤφθη ἀγγέλοις, ἐκηρύχθη ἐν ἔθνεσιν, ἐπιστεύθη ἐν κόσμῳ, ἀνελήφθη ἐν δόξῃ.
Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550
καὶ ὁμολογουμένως μέγα ἐστὶν τὸ τῆς εὐσεβείας μυστήριον· Θεὸς ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί ἐδικαιώθη ἐν πνεύματι ὤφθη ἀγγέλοις ἐκηρύχθη ἐν ἔθνεσιν ἐπιστεύθη ἐν κόσμῳ ἀνελήφθη ἐν δόξῃ.

CRITICAL TEXT: THEOS EXPUNGED AND THE SENTENCE RENDERED MEANINGLESS
Nestle Greek New Testament 1904
καὶ ὁμολογουμένως μέγα ἐστὶν τὸ τῆς εὐσεβείας μυστήριον· Ὃς ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί, ἐδικαιώθη ἐν πνεύματι, ὤφθη ἀγγέλοις, ἐκηρύχθη ἐν ἔθνεσιν, ἐπιστεύθη ἐν κόσμῳ, ἀνελήμφθη ἐν δόξῃ.
Westcott and Hort 1881
καὶ ὁμολογουμένως μέγα ἐστὶν τὸ τῆς εὐσεβείας μυστήριον· Ὃς ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί, ἐδικαιώθη ἐν πνεύματι, ὤφθη ἀγγέλοις, ἐκηρύχθη ἐν ἔθνεσιν, ἐπιστεύθη ἐν κόσμῳ, ἀνελήμφθη ἐν δόξῃ.
Westcott and Hort / [NA27 variants]
καὶ ὁμολογουμένως μέγα ἐστὶν τὸ τῆς εὐσεβείας μυστήριον· Ὃς ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί, ἐδικαιώθη ἐν πνεύματι, ὤφθη ἀγγέλοις, ἐκηρύχθη ἐν ἔθνεσιν, ἐπιστεύθη ἐν κόσμῳ, ἀνελήμφθη ἐν δόξῃ.

Dean John William Burgon wrote a dissertation on this verse and proved that all Greek manuscripts have THEOS. But the Critical Text refused to accept that conclusion, and a Unitarian on the Revision Committee was a part of that decision.

Furthermore the modern versions have also made the following omissions: "Jesus" 94 times; Lord, our Lord, the Lord [‘s] , the Lord Jesus, the Lord Jesus Christ, in the name of the Lord, and the Lord said omitted 34 times; [The] Christ, of Christ, in Christ, Lord…Christ, Jesus Christ, Christ Jesus, our [the][and the] Lord Jesus Christ, according to the flesh He would raise up Christ, that Christ the Son of the living God, Jesus Christ is the Son of God, Christ is come in the flesh, omitted 43 times; Son, [the] Son of God, only begotten Son of God, the Son of the living God, Son of Man omitted or altered 16 times.

 

[John146]

Sounds quite personal. His work is evidence against the charge below.

That would be my assessment of anyone who believes they can use their scholarship to override the KJV. It's my personal belief. Some don't care because they do not have a bible they can trust. I do.

 

[John146]

John146
Asking you a question. Is this God's Word?

1 A Psalm of David. The earth is the Lord's, and all its fullness, The world and those who dwell therein.
2 For He has founded it upon the seas, And established it upon the waters.
3 Who may ascend into the hill of the Lord? Or who may stand in His holy place?
4 He who has clean hands and a pure heart, Who has not lifted up his soul to an idol, Nor sworn deceitfully.
5 He shall receive blessing from the Lord, And righteousness from the God of his salvation.
6 This is Jacob, the generation of those who seek Him, Who seek Your face. Selah
7 Lift up your heads, O you gates! And be lifted up, you everlasting doors! And the King of glory shall come in.
8 Who is this King of glory? The Lord strong and mighty, The Lord mighty in battle.
9 Lift up your heads, O you gates! Lift up, you everlasting doors! And the King of glory shall come in.
10 Who is this King of glory? The Lord of hosts, He is the King of glory. Selah

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

Nope, several changes...especially charity to love

 

[Beckie]

Nope, several changes...especially charity to love

so if by chance you say the Bible says .... and you dont say it exactly right you are not talking the Word. You ever tell any one Jesus loves you? Ever sing the little song Jesus loves me this i know for the Bible tells m so?

 

[oyster67]

so if by chance you say the Bible says .... and you dont say it exactly right you are not talking the Word. You ever tell any one Jesus loves you? Ever sing the little song Jesus loves me this i know for the Bible tells m so?

When we were discussing a Christian video a while back, someone got upset because Jesus was not speaking King-Jamesian English.

 

[John146]

so if by chance you say the Bible says .... and you dont say it exactly right you are not talking the Word. You ever tell any one Jesus loves you? Ever sing the little song Jesus loves me this i know for the Bible tells m so?

I wouldn't call it scripture. Songs like that are paraphrasing a biblical truth. Would you call that little song scripture?

 

[1ambassador]

There are many thoughts expressed herein and throughout Christendom about the 'best' Bible, but we need to say: "to each his own choice", as the saying goes --and NOT argue. My choice (if not the choice of others) is that the Scofield KJV Study Bible meets my need, and that is due to the studies and comparisons that have gone into it. That may not satisfy some seekers, and that is their choice. Such a Bible can be found at Bible Truth Publishers: Addison, IL. -USA with much good Bible ministry and Godly books and material, I have found.

Let me share here, that what I have found in this Book is not just the past versions of KJV over the many years by scholars, but that this later-year Version shows in the margins the various words used in KJV and needed, to express God's thoughts in all time; and a expanded commentary on each page as to the history and meaning of the words and how used in various times; and NOT allowing modern new word usages to identify God's intent for readers in understanding the ages.

If I find something unclear, I also compare with sound dictionaries as to word meaning. I hope this is of some help to seekers wanting to learn understanding of "ALL THE COUNSEL OF GOD" and be "RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF TRUTH" as our God tells us in our Holy Bible. Keep looking up, brothers and sisters!
---1ambassador.

 

[Angela53510]

That's not how translations work. Read that book I mentioned and do be


That is very encouraging coming from someone who has been there and knows what they are talking about. I am not dreading it as much now. I think my school uses Bill Mounce textbooks.

That's who I studied under, too. I was doing extension courses with my seminary. We watched Bill Mounce's videos that went with the lesson. Our seminary professor corrected our weekly exercises, set the exams for us.

Then, about 3 years after I graduated, I got an email from Dr. Mounce announcing an online 2nd year Greek with him. I knew I needed second year Greek for a PhD, so I registered immediately. We met weekly on Zoom, went through our exercises, which was all Scripture! . He was really fantastic. So well prepared, too. He doesn't teach that course, anymore, we were the last class to have him, he brought in other profs to help. The book is very well organized. I would imagine you will have the next edition that I did.

I hope you will really enjoy it. Good English grammar is essential. I went to high school in the 60's, where grammar was drilled into us, plus French grammar. Let me know how it goes, whenever you get into it! And don't hesitate to ask me for help, if you need it!

 

[Angela53510]

Is he not another Bible agnostic? Bill is the final authority on what saith the scriptures...

I took 2 semesters of courses from Bill Mounce online. A more godly man, who believes every word of the Bible and has devoted his life to teaching Greek, and now has set up free courses in the Bible, theology for pastors in Africa, or anyone else; you will not find!

He's also incredibly humble. I had disagreements with him about 1 Tim 2:12. I read 50 pages he wrote in a commentary on the pastoral epistles. In the end, it all came down to authentein, a hapax legomena. He agreed with the traditional interpretation. I argued that if the definition for authentein was wrong, it might reverse the entire meaning of the verse. He agreed with me, but said he had been raised to believe men are in charge in the church, he had studied it, and was not going to change. He was very gentle, but very firm in his principles. I respect him for that!

Dr Mounce has been on many translation committees, and has left if he thought they were going in the wrong direction. Finally, he does not believe in the authority or that the KJV is translated correctly. We would go through the Greek, verse by verse, and compare it to many versions. He would try and find the best word to use in translating verses. Of course, just because he does not prefer the KJV does not make him an agnostic, nor me, nor any of the many people who read modern versions.

I think you better find out more about people before you start slandering them on CC! Of course, you don't read Greek, so you have no basis of comparison as to what are the best ways of translating the Greek. I prefer a modern translation, not burdened by archaic and obsolete words and grammar! But you already know that!

 

[Angela53510]

There are many thoughts expressed herein and throughout Christendom about the 'best' Bible, but we need to say: "to each his own choice", as the saying goes --and NOT argue. My choice (if not the choice of others) is that the Scofield KJV Study Bible meets my need, and that is due to the studies and comparisons that have gone into it. That may not satisfy some seekers, and that is their choice. Such a Bible can be found at Bible Truth Publishers: Addison, IL. -USA with much good Bible ministry and Godly books and material, I have found.

Let me share here, that what I have found in this Book is not just the past versions of KJV over the many years by scholars, but that this later-year Version shows in the margins the various words used in KJV and needed, to express God's thoughts in all time; and a expanded commentary on each page as to the history and meaning of the words and how used in various times; and NOT allowing modern new word usages to identify God's intent for readers in understanding the ages.

If I find something unclear, I also compare with sound dictionaries as to word meaning. I hope this is of some help to seekers wanting to learn understanding of "ALL THE COUNSEL OF GOD" and be "RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF TRUTH" as our God tells us in our Holy Bible. Keep looking up, brothers and sisters!
---1ambassador.

Not knowing Greek and Hebrew, you read English dictionaries to find out word meanings. A real scholar uses a lexicon. A lexicon has a word in Greek, then it translates it into English, showing the passages where the word is used that way. Some words take up pages!

I use BDAG or Bauer, for Greek, and Brown-Driver-Briggs for Hebrew. You need to start with the original languages, then go to the receiving language, which is English in our case. BDB has an Aramaic reference in the back of the Hebrew Lexicon, to help understands the parts of the Bible written in Aramaic.

It's good to educate yourself. However, English dictionaries, or Concordances, like Strong's, are really a simplistic view of how to translate! Lexicon's are the way to go!

 

[Angela53510]

There are many thoughts expressed herein and throughout Christendom about the 'best' Bible, but we need to say: "to each his own choice", as the saying goes --and NOT argue. My choice (if not the choice of others) is that the Scofield KJV Study Bible meets my need, and that is due to the studies and comparisons that have gone into it. That may not satisfy some seekers, and that is their choice. Such a Bible can be found at Bible Truth Publishers: Addison, IL. -USA with much good Bible ministry and Godly books and material, I have found.

Let me share here, that what I have found in this Book is not just the past versions of KJV over the many years by scholars, but that this later-year Version shows in the margins the various words used in KJV and needed, to express God's thoughts in all time; and a expanded commentary on each page as to the history and meaning of the words and how used in various times; and NOT allowing modern new word usages to identify God's intent for readers in understanding the ages.

If I find something unclear, I also compare with sound dictionaries as to word meaning. I hope this is of some help to seekers wanting to learn understanding of "ALL THE COUNSEL OF GOD" and be "RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF TRUTH" as our God tells us in our Holy Bible. Keep looking up, brothers and sisters!
---1ambassador.

The Scofield Bible is without a doubt the worst possible version to read. It's the KJV, which is not the problem. The problem is all the stupid notes, which were originally in the margins, but in some cases have been incorporated into the text. The massive errors in the Scofield are the reasons for so many bad doctrines, like dispensationalism, pre-mill and the not- rapture! It's scary to think people read that garbage, and come out brainwashed.

Read the KJV is you want. It's not my preference but lots of people like it because of the flowery language, or because they have used it their whole lives! But reading with erroneous notes like Scofield is just wrong! You have been warned!

 

[oyster67]

Scofield KJV Study Bible meets my need, and that is due to the studies and comparisons that have gone into it.

This Bible and it's notes have been the downfall of many a young man. It starts to distort the truth from the very first chapter.

 

[Evmur]

This Bible and it's notes have been the downfall of many a young man. It starts to distort the truth from the very first chapter.

Scofield was a crook

 

[Evmur]

The Scofield Bible is without a doubt the worst possible version to read. It's the KJV, which is not the problem. The problem is all the stupid notes, which were originally in the margins, but in some cases have been incorporated into the text. The massive errors in the Scofield are the reasons for so many bad doctrines, like dispensationalism, pre-mill and the not- rapture! It's scary to think people read that garbage, and come out brainwashed.

Read the KJV is you want. It's not my preference but lots of people like it because of the flowery language, or because they have used it their whole lives! But reading with erroneous notes like Scofield is just wrong! You have been warned!

... a thing about the KJ 17th centuryness is you have to stop and work out what it is saying

 

[John146]

I took 2 semesters of courses from Bill Mounce online. A more godly man, who believes every word of the Bible and has devoted his life to teaching Greek, and now has set up free courses in the Bible, theology for pastors in Africa, or anyone else; you will not find!

He's also incredibly humble. I had disagreements with him about 1 Tim 2:12. I read 50 pages he wrote in a commentary on the pastoral epistles. In the end, it all came down to authentein, a hapax legomena. He agreed with the traditional interpretation. I argued that if the definition for authentein was wrong, it might reverse the entire meaning of the verse. He agreed with me, but said he had been raised to believe men are in charge in the church, he had studied it, and was not going to change. He was very gentle, but very firm in his principles. I respect him for that!

Dr Mounce has been on many translation committees, and has left if he thought they were going in the wrong direction. Finally, he does not believe in the authority or that the KJV is translated correctly. We would go through the Greek, verse by verse, and compare it to many versions. He would try and find the best word to use in translating verses. Of course, just because he does not prefer the KJV does not make him an agnostic, nor me, nor any of the many people who read modern versions.

I think you better find out more about people before you start slandering them on CC! Of course, you don't read Greek, so you have no basis of comparison as to what are the best ways of translating the Greek. I prefer a modern translation, not burdened by archaic and obsolete words and grammar! But you already know that!

Where is the Bible that he believes every word? Then you go on to say he would compare many versions to search for the right word…he just made himself the final authority. No thanks. Many of good people have been misguided into believing God’s word cant exist in a translation and should rely on their own scholarship.

With all your learning in other languages, the English language is a burden to you? Those pesky these and thous…

 

[fredoheaven]

This is rich coming from a propagandist for CORRUPT BIBLES! And if you want to prove that the last statement is false just go to 1 Timothy 3:16 and see the attack on the deity of Christ in those corrupt bibles. So now the word "bullied" has been introduced into the discussion to intimidate people who stand for the truth.

King James Bible
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

English Standard Version (all modern versions have "he" or "who" which could even mean the archangel Michael)
Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

RECEIVED TEXT: θεὸς = THEOS = GOD = CHRIST
RP Byzantine Majority Text 2005
Καὶ ὁμολογουμένως μέγα ἐστὶν τὸ τῆς εὐσεβείας μυστήριον· θεὸς ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί, ἐδικαιώθη ἐν πνεύματι, ὤφθη ἀγγέλοις, ἐκηρύχθη ἐν ἔθνεσιν, ἐπιστεύθη ἐν κόσμῳ, ἀνελήφθη ἐν δόξῃ.
Greek Orthodox Church 1904
καὶ ὁμολογουμένως μέγα ἐστὶ τὸ τῆς εὐσεβείας μυστήριον· Θεὸς ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί, ἐδικαιώθη ἐν Πνεύματι, ὤφθη ἀγγέλοις, ἐκηρύχθη ἐν ἔθνεσιν, ἐπιστεύθη ἐν κόσμῳ, ἀνελήφθη ἐν δόξῃ.
Scrivener's Textus Receptus 1894
καὶ ὁμολογουμένως μέγα ἐστὶ τὸ τῆς εὐσεβείας μυστήριον· Θεὸς ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί, ἐδικαιώθη ἐν πνεύματι, ὤφθη ἀγγέλοις, ἐκηρύχθη ἐν ἔθνεσιν, ἐπιστεύθη ἐν κόσμῳ, ἀνελήφθη ἐν δόξῃ.
Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550
καὶ ὁμολογουμένως μέγα ἐστὶν τὸ τῆς εὐσεβείας μυστήριον· Θεὸς ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί ἐδικαιώθη ἐν πνεύματι ὤφθη ἀγγέλοις ἐκηρύχθη ἐν ἔθνεσιν ἐπιστεύθη ἐν κόσμῳ ἀνελήφθη ἐν δόξῃ.

CRITICAL TEXT: THEOS EXPUNGED AND THE SENTENCE RENDERED MEANINGLESS
Nestle Greek New Testament 1904
καὶ ὁμολογουμένως μέγα ἐστὶν τὸ τῆς εὐσεβείας μυστήριον· Ὃς ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί, ἐδικαιώθη ἐν πνεύματι, ὤφθη ἀγγέλοις, ἐκηρύχθη ἐν ἔθνεσιν, ἐπιστεύθη ἐν κόσμῳ, ἀνελήμφθη ἐν δόξῃ.
Westcott and Hort 1881
καὶ ὁμολογουμένως μέγα ἐστὶν τὸ τῆς εὐσεβείας μυστήριον· Ὃς ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί, ἐδικαιώθη ἐν πνεύματι, ὤφθη ἀγγέλοις, ἐκηρύχθη ἐν ἔθνεσιν, ἐπιστεύθη ἐν κόσμῳ, ἀνελήμφθη ἐν δόξῃ.
Westcott and Hort / [NA27 variants]
καὶ ὁμολογουμένως μέγα ἐστὶν τὸ τῆς εὐσεβείας μυστήριον· Ὃς ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί, ἐδικαιώθη ἐν πνεύματι, ὤφθη ἀγγέλοις, ἐκηρύχθη ἐν ἔθνεσιν, ἐπιστεύθη ἐν κόσμῳ, ἀνελήμφθη ἐν δόξῃ.

Dean John William Burgon wrote a dissertation on this verse and proved that all Greek manuscripts have THEOS. But the Critical Text refused to accept that conclusion, and a Unitarian on the Revision Committee was a part of that decision.

Furthermore the modern versions have also made the following omissions: "Jesus" 94 times; Lord, our Lord, the Lord [‘s] , the Lord Jesus, the Lord Jesus Christ, in the name of the Lord, and the Lord said omitted 34 times; [The] Christ, of Christ, in Christ, Lord…Christ, Jesus Christ, Christ Jesus, our [the][and the] Lord Jesus Christ, according to the flesh He would raise up Christ, that Christ the Son of the living God, Jesus Christ is the Son of God, Christ is come in the flesh, omitted 43 times; Son, [the] Son of God, only begotten Son of God, the Son of the living God, Son of Man omitted or altered 16 times.

The old Vaticanus could not offer help to the critical scholars here since it omitted the pastoral epistle. The Sinaiticus has the corrupt one which has been the only source for WH , Nas, Ubs, nestle. The corrupt text had insertion but was ignored by the Critical scholars. Someone, had this comment on the attached image for anyones consideration

 

[Dino246]

He slanders God’s word, I’m just stating facts. I haven’t slandered him personally.

You're delusional. The evidence is right here:

His goal is to destroy all versions according to his superior knowledge using the "Greek game."

There is no excuse for your slander or your lies.

 

[John146]

You're delusional. The evidence is right here:



There is no excuse for your slander or your lies.

I apologize. His goal is to use his knowledge to translate the bible correctly when the KJV messed up.

 

[Dino246]

I apologize. His goal is to use his knowledge to translate the bible correctly when the KJV messed up.

Your personification of the KJV is wrongheaded.

 

[fredoheaven]

Where is the Bible that he believes every word? Then you go on to say he would compare many versions to search for the right word…he just made himself the final authority. No thanks. Many of good people have been misguided into believing God’s word cant exist in a translation and should rely on their own scholarship.

With all your learning in other languages, the English language is a burden to you? Those pesky these and thous…

BDag is a lexicon from Greek to German and not Greek to English in the first place. The critical lexicon is a newer ones compared to thayer. They just fall to the same line, nothings so special.