BELIEFS ABOUT THE KJV
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Surely you don't think that is what a lamp looked like 2000 years ago.
Evidence for what? No one in Christian circles or Theological academia is arguing for wax candles or suggesting that John saw wax candles.
Even KJVO people say he saw oil based lampstand but they say it does not change the meaning to use Candlestick. I would agree if they define candlestick as an oil based Jewish menorah.
Anyone who replaces the oil based menorah with a wax candle looses the connection to Zech 4 which would be a huge mistake in illumination of the symbolism behind the vision here.
If you want to do that because KJV used candlestick and if you want to imagine wax candlesticks and loose the connection to Zech 4 go ahead, but to me that is like idolatry of the KJV scholars gone to seed. Seems like a sin to me.
And we know John did not see an electric table lamp right? What did it mean in his day? An oil based lamp.
Yes, In Zechariah, The KJV translates menorah as 'candlestick". But we know what a menorah is.
It also describes the oil that is used to fuel the lamps. Oil not wax candles.
God gave instructions for making the menorah for use in the earthly tabernacle. Exodus 25
A reflection of the heavenly temple which Zechariah & John saw in visions.
Translating Greek words into English includes learning how those Greek words were used in other writings from the same time. When those documents exist it is not guesswork. It is proof that the word had a history of meaning a certain thing to the readers of that day.
But I am going to quit posting about it. My original point was that KJV is not the most accurate word for word translation and this was a good example of why I say that. I prefer a translation like CSB where the word lamp and lampstand is used to refer to the oil based lamps that all scholars understand that John intended when he wrote the Greek word that he used and not a wax candle.
I won't argue about it. I try not to argue or strive about any topic on CC.
I don't know what the 'RV' is unless it's the Revised Standard Version.
Just to help other Christians not to be deceived by the recycled serpentine lies of the KJV propaganda machine.
If you are a young Christian don't be bullied. The diety of Christ is declared openly in modern English Bibles.
Col 2 (NIV)
8 See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ.
9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,
10 and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority.
RSV
8 See to it that no one makes a prey of you by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the universe, and not according to Christ.
9 For in him the whole fulness of deity dwells bodily,
10 and you have come to fulness of life in him, who is the head of all rule and authority
NASB
8 See to it that there is no one who takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception in accordance with human tradition,
in accordance with the elementary principles of the world, rather than in accordance with Christ.
9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,
10 and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over every ruler and authority;
HSCB
8 Be careful that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deceit based on human tradition, based on the elemental forces of the world, and not based on Christ. 9 For the entire fullness of God’s nature dwells bodily in Christ,
10 and you have been filled by Him, who is the head over every ruler and authority.
NET
8 Be careful not to allow anyone to captivate you[q] through an empty, deceitful philosophy[r] that is according to human traditions and the elemental spirits[s] of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in him all the fullness of deity lives[t] in bodily form, 10 and you have been filled in him, who is the head over every ruler and authority.
That makes no sense. I do understand.
How do you not understand it?
Hebrew & Greek are not English.
Then why are you still making the argument that the KJV is not a good version because it has old language??
You don't think the original languages of Greek and Hebrew are old?
Just take everything you said about the KJV and apply it to the original Greek and Hebrew and see if it makes any sense.
Be patient with them, Lucy. Give them a few hours to digest that.
There are two words in Greek in this passage, both of which are simply translated "LOVE".
The First two times Jesus asks Peter, do you "AGAPE" (a pure, willful, sacrificial love that intentionally desires another’s highest good) me??
Peter answers both times: "I Phileo ( a fondness toward you) you. Which is tantamount to Peter saying "not really" to Jesus' question.
The third time, Jesus asks "Phileo"? And Peter is broken, and says "you know my heart, I Phileo you" ( it's the best I can do).
Remember that Peter HAD (when things were good) sworn dying allegiance to Jesus, and when this was tested, he folded like a house of cards. Peter's answer to jesus indicated that he had LEARNED something about his proclaimed "boundless dedication", and was being honest about it - now.
But Jesus command to him on all three occasions, as an apparent remedy for Peter's lack of "Agape" - i.e. "Feed my sheep" - MINISTER to the people. Jesus implied that in doing so, AGAPE will develop. Reading Peter's later writings, apparently it did.
That's what the original Greek text says. Seems like many of the other translations (ASV NIV, WEB, etc.) follow the KJV down the same path and lose the significance of the language.
This is going to open a can of worms but that's what I am here for. LOL
I used to think this too. Because I heard other Preachers who could not read Greek repeat it from other preachers who did not read Greek. Then I found out it wasn't true.
It turns out that just like the English word Love, Agape has different meanings depending on the context.
Agape is used to refer to not just good human love,
but even sinful human love. See for example: John 3:19 “people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil”;
John 12:43 “for they loved human praise more than praise from God”;
2 Timothy 4:10 “Demas, because he loved this world, has deserted me” and
2 Peter 2:15 “They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Bezer, who loved the wages of wickedness”.
Loving evil things is not a holy, divine love in any way, shape or form.
Wait... there's more.
Luke 11:43 (ESV)
Woe to you Pharisees! For you love the best seat in the synagogues and greetings in the marketplaces.
2 Peter 2:15 (ESV)
Forsaking the right way, they have gone astray. They have followed the way of Balaam, the son of Beor, who loved gain from wrongdoing,
- In the Septuagint (which is the Greek Version of the Old Testament in circulation at the time of Christ), agape is used to refer to Amnon’s feelings for his half-sister Tamar, following his rape of her (2 Samuel 13:15, LXX).
This is one of the reasons I decided to learn Koine Greek and be able to read my NT in Greek myself. I am weary of preachers who say things about the Greek that are wrong and I don't want to be that guy.
No offence. I am pretty sure I told people this same myth about Agape in the past before I caught on that I should probably find out if it was true and sure enough my suspicions were correct. It's not true.
According to New Testament Greek Scholars that I read people have made up quite a few interpretations about the conversation between Jesus and Peter over the use of Peters' word for love that just are not supported by real Greek syntax rules.
Because of the way those words are used in sentences it is really a matter of context and not any different than saying the word Love meaning different kinds of affection or commitment depending on context.
There are tons of websites that repeat the meanings of these Greek words for Love. It is a deeply rooted myth. But there are several Greek scholars speaking about it also and one can find them with a Google search.
https://discoverthebible.wordpress.com/2015/05/09/is-agape-a-special-kind-of-love/
https://bbhchurchconnection.wordpress.com/2014/11/11/moises-silva-on-agape-love/
Unfortunately, I'm not a very good "GOD-SPELLERES".
You know you can turn off auto correct or even word suggestion (assuming you are using a phone). It gets a bit irritating to correct typos without suggestions but it seems better than the alternative.