And the SMOKE of their torment...No eternal damnation for anyone, except the Devil

[FreeGrace2]

Just getting some bearings on how far off you are.

And you failed miserably. I read ahead to see what you posted.

If I understand you correctly, you believe the soul is not immortal so those resurrected from hell are not resurrected with a soul

You do NOT understand correctly. Since I believe the soul is immortal and will never "cease to exist". I've made that clear enough so that you have no excuse for your continued ignorance.

And after an unbeliever dies, their soul goes to Hades (hell), to await the resurrection of their body) for the GWT judgment. I've made that very clear as well. So I'd say your reading skills need sharpening.

so when their bodies are cast into the lake of fire, where they physically die yet again; however, their soul is not present with them in the lake of fire, meaning there isn’t such a thing as ECT.

If you are actually serious here about what you think I believe, you are farther GONE than anyone could suspect.

I've been clear about my belief in ECT, and here you are trying to put words in my mouth that I've never said.

That sounds like what you’ve been saying all along.

You just aren't paying attention.

If I have an accurate understanding of what you believe then you’ve just debunked yourself and literally spent the past several dozen pages doing nothing but what essentially amounts to making a lot of noise.

This is sick. I am so sorry for you.

When all humans physically die, their bodies go into the ground, if there's any thing left to bury, and their souls REMAIN conscious; saved people go to heaven and unsaved people go to Hades (hell- torments).

When Jesus brings the saints back to earth with Him at the 2nd Advent, He resurrects their physical bodies into immortal glorified bodies, just like His.

However, the unbelievers who are in hell, have to wait until all the rest of the unbelievers are dead, and then all of them will receive their mortal physical bodies, to appear before the GWT. Then they will be cast into the LOF where their physical bodies will DIE AGAIN, also called the SECOND DEATH.

If you don't understand this, you just don't want to. Or are just too dense to.

The least you should do is recognize the REAL position of other posters, rather than make up such garbage that is a LIE which you know.

 

[brightfame52]

Absolutely. ALL SOULS belong to God. Why do you think God would TORTURE ANYONE FOR EVER? What does that say about those who do see Him in this UNRIGHTEOUSNESS? I am just a human being and I CAN SEE THE UNRIGHTEOUSNESS.

I am to strive to be more like Him.

If the world decided that the punishment for MURDER was to BEGIN their eternal torture by burning them to to point of unbearable pain BUT NOT allowing them to ever die, would ANYONE GET in line for that saying 'YES, SOUNDS JUST LIKE WHAT GOD WOULD DO"?

IT IS SO EVIL I would think that only EVIL PEOPLE would ever think or promote such a thing. YET HERE WE HAVE 'CALLED' CHRISTIANS DOING JUST THAT???


DID He pay the PRICE for all sins? Yes, Did they repent of their sins to be forgiven? Were they given a choice? OR should God have just created AN ARMY OF ROBOTS without feelings of their own?

God Loves them He is going to destroy forever instaed of saving them ! Give me a break ! Ps 103:4

Who redeemeth thy life from destruction; who crowneth thee with lovingkindness and tender mercies;

God redeems those He Loves from destruction, Hes ever so merciful to them !

Sounds like you serve a monster god who destroys them He loves !

 

[FreeGrace2]

It’s called not adding to or taking away from the Bible. A very essential foundation for anyone who reads the Bible. Try it sometime.

I would never add to or take away from what the Bible says, like you do all the time.

 

[FreeGrace2]

There are two groups of people in this world. is f

Your opinion is far from the Bible.

The only 2 groups in humanity are the saved and the unsaved. But you keep proving that you don't know the Bible.

Fundamentally you believe something of the unsaved person has eternal life in hell or the LOF.

Such a stupid comment, esp since I've repeatedly corrected your gross error. No unbeliever has "eternal life". btw, that term is about the physical body only. Just like the resurrection of believers, when they receive their physical body which now has eternal life.

But I don't expect you to understand any of this. Based on your recent posts and how badly you misunderstand what I have explained.

 

[Runningman]

And you failed miserably. I read ahead to see what you posted.


You do NOT understand correctly. Since I believe the soul is immortal and will never "cease to exist". I've made that clear enough so that you have no excuse for your continued ignorance.

And after an unbeliever dies, their soul goes to Hades (hell), to await the resurrection of their body) for the GWT judgment. I've made that very clear as well. So I'd say your reading skills need sharpening.


If you are actually serious here about what you think I believe, you are farther GONE than anyone could suspect.

I've been clear about my belief in ECT, and here you are trying to put words in my mouth that I've never said.


You just aren't paying attention.


This is sick. I am so sorry for you.

When all humans physically die, their bodies go into the ground, if there's any thing left to bury, and their souls REMAIN conscious; saved people go to heaven and unsaved people go to Hades (hell- torments).

When Jesus brings the saints back to earth with Him at the 2nd Advent, He resurrects their physical bodies into immortal glorified bodies, just like His.

However, the unbelievers who are in hell, have to wait until all the rest of the unbelievers are dead, and then all of them will receive their mortal physical bodies, to appear before the GWT. Then they will be cast into the LOF where their physical bodies will DIE AGAIN, also called the SECOND DEATH.

If you don't understand this, you just don't want to. Or are just too dense to.

The least you should do is recognize the REAL position of other posters, rather than make up such garbage that is a LIE which you know.

got it that’s all I needed to see. So in the second death, you don’t have a clear reason to believe that it is only the physical body that is resurrected from hell because Jesus confirmed the soul can be in hell and die, too, in Matthew 10:28 which means that in the 2nd death, you don’t have a any Biblical proof for just their body being destroyed and not the soul too.

your false pretense is that the soul is always immortal regardless, but Jesus confirmed that only those who believe in Him live forever and all others perish.

furthermore, only God possesses immortality per 1 Tim. 6:16.

Just as I’ve been saying all along, you’ve been spouting nonsense and I finally have the proof I need from your reply.


Know how easy it was? You’re so eager to make me look wrong and confused that all i needed to do was bait you by asking you if I understand you correctly based on things you’ve been saying. You immediately seized the bait and revealed yourself. I knew this all along, but I needed to prove it and now I can. Thanks you. I feel so lighthearted now.

 

[kleronomos]

Has nothing to do with confusion, Its about the supernatural, Gods works are supernatural, thats not confusion save maybe in your mind.

For GOD to use SMOKE knowing that we know what SMOKE IS but ASSIGN it an entirely different meaning in 'the spiritual' world would be CAUSING CONFUSION.

YOU are the one assigning it a different meaning. NOT GOD

 

[kleronomos]

God Loves them He is going to destroy forever instaed of saving them ! Give me a break ! Ps 103:4

You think ETERNAL TORMENT is preferable to death? People beg for death when being tortured. THAT IS THE DISCUSSION

 

[kleronomos]

God Loves them He is going to destroy forever instaed of saving them ! Give me a break ! Ps 103:4

Galatians 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

Galatians 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

Galatians 6:3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.

Galatians 6:4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.

Galatians 6:5 For every man shall bear his own burden.

Galatians 6:6 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.

Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.




John 8:21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.

John 8:22 Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.

John 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

John 8:25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.

John 8:26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.

John 8:27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.

John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

John 8:29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

John 8:30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.

John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

John 8:33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

John 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

John 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

John 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

John 8:37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

John 8:38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.

John 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

John 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

John 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

John 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because YE CAN NOT HEAR MY WORD

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

John 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.


Is this the BREAK you were asking for?

Do you think the GWTJ is FAKE?

 

[kleronomos]

Sounds like you serve a monster god who destroys them He loves !

MONSTER GOD who destroys those He loves. Those are going to be some hard words to eat.


HAVE YOU READ THE BOOK?

again, you think HE SHOULD HAVE CREATED an army of ROBOTS with no choice but to love HIM BACK. Why do you think they are BLOTTED out of the book of life and not tortured forever? BECAUSE of His MERCY.

 

[kleronomos]

God Loves them He is going to destroy forever instaed of saving them ! Give me a break ! Ps 103:4

Who redeemeth thy life from destruction; who crowneth thee with lovingkindness and tender mercies;

God redeems those He Loves from destruction, Hes ever so merciful to them !

Sounds like you serve a monster god who destroys them He loves !

Psalm 103:1 Bless the LORD, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name.
Psalm 103:2 Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:
Psalm 103:3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;
Psalm 103:4 Who redeemeth thy life from destruction; who crowneth thee with lovingkindness and tender mercies;
Psalm 103:5 Who satisfieth thy mouth with good things; so that thy youth is renewed like the eagle's.
Psalm 103:6 The LORD executeth righteousness and judgment for all that are oppressed.
Psalm 103:7 He made known his ways unto Moses, his acts unto the children of Israel.
Psalm 103:8 The LORD is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy.
Psalm 103:9 He will not always chide: neither will he keep his anger for ever.


DOES THIS SOUND LIKE THE PRAYER OF AN UNREPENTANT UNBELIEVER? HE SAVES THOSE WHO ASK.

BUT thank you because of verse 9 which I don't think anyone has brought forth yet and if they have then I missed it and am glad you did

 

[kleronomos]

Psalm 103:9 He will not always chide: neither will he keep his anger for ever.

 

[Runningman]

Sounds like you serve a monster god who destroys them He loves !

Being destroyed is worse than sending them to eternal conscious torment?

How about tribes in the rainforest, isolated from all civilization their whole life, having never heard the gospel of Christ. When they die they’re going to be blind-sided with eternal torment in hell?

The starving beggar who stole a loaf of bread to feed himself and his family one cold winter’s night? He’s going to screaming torment day and night forever?

That sounds like your god is a monster and I’ll share in no part of it with you and your ilk.

Our God is merciful and righteous. He doesn’t punish punish people forever and guaranteed to destroy them and put them to death.

 

[Runningman]

MONSTER GOD who destroys those He loves. Those are going to be some hard words to eat.


HAVE YOU READ THE BOOK?

again, you think HE SHOULD HAVE CREATED an army of ROBOTS with no choice but to love HIM BACK. Why do you think they are BLOTTED out of the book of life and not tortured forever? BECAUSE of His MERCY.

I can’t believe some of the things people have the boldness to say.

 

[FreeGrace2]

got it that’s all I needed to see.

Yes, you DO need to see the TRUTH.

So in the second death, you don’t have a clear reason to believe that it is only the physical body that is resurrected from hell because Jesus confirmed the soul can be in hell and die, too

This is pathetic. How can you keep being so wrong so consistently. When an unbeliever dies, the body goes into the ground and their conscious soul go to Hades (hell). That is simple, and NOT hard to understand. So your difficulty is on you.

in Matthew 10:28 which means that in the 2nd death, you don’t have a any Biblical proof for just their body being destroyed and not the soul too.

I have all the evidence I need. You really need to read 1 Cor 15, the singular chapter about "resurrection". I dare you to find any verse that explains that God resurrects souls.

your false pretense is that the soul is always immortal regardless

You haven't proven YOUR claim. You don't even understand what resurrection is.

but Jesus confirmed that only those who believe in Him live forever and all others perish.

Yep. When they are bodily thrown into the LOF, their body will certainly perish. We know the soul REMAINS in spite of the eternal fire because the beast and FP WILL BE cast bodily into the LOF 1,000 years BEFORE Satan joins them.

Rev 19:20 - 20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

This occurs when Jesus returns at the 2nd Advent. Then we have 1,000 years of literal reign of King Jesus, and at the end, Jesus ends the battle of Gog and Magog and throws Satan into the LOF.

Rev 20:10 - And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Obviously, "they" refers to the beast, FP and Satan. So we know that the beast and FP have been IN the LOF for 1,000 years already before Satan joins them. And they are STILL there. You think they have their bodies? That would be really dumb.

So I KNOW from these verses that it is the SOUL SURVIVES the fire of the LOF. It does NOT "cease to exist".

If your goofy theory were correct, how could the beast and FP STILL be in the LOF when Satan gets thrown in?

But of course, you will have no answer.

furthermore, only God possesses immortality per 1 Tim. 6:16.

Too bad you refuse to believe the clear truth. Between Rev 19:20 and Rev 20:10 we KNOW that 2 humans have SURVIVED the fires of the LOF. And we KNOW that physical bodies CANNOT SURVIVE any fire that engulfs them.

So, what's LEFT to SURVIVE the fires in the LOF? Only the soul.

Just as I’ve been saying all along, you’ve been spouting nonsense and I finally have the proof I need from your reply.

Delusional.

Know how easy it was?

It was very easy to prove my case that souls do not "cease to exist" in the LOF, from Rev 19:20 and Rev 20:10.

You’re so eager to make me look wrong and confused that all i needed to do was bait you by asking you if I understand you correctly based on things you’ve been saying.

Your guesses continue to be wrong. I'm not eager to do anything but know what the Bible says. Whether you believe the truth or not isn't my responsibility and I'm not accountable for your errors.
punish

You immediately seized the bait and revealed yourself. I knew this all along, but I needed to prove it and now I can. Thanks you. I feel so lighthearted now.

What is it that you think has given you this unwarranted emotional response?

What I just did was reveal your false doctrine.

2 humans are thrown into the LOF and 1,000 years later they are still there, being tormented, which will continue day and night for ever and ever.

My use of the Berean study method has revealed your false claims and proven my view.

All unbelievers will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

You have nothing to prove that God WILL destroy souls.

And you can't defend your irrational claim that a person who doesn't exist can be continually punished. They aren't even there to experience the punishment. Total nonsense.

 

[kleronomos]

WHAT can we GLEEN about the CHARACTER of GOD from what is written?



Psalm 30:1 I will extol thee, O LORD; for thou hast lifted me up, and hast not made my foes to rejoice over me.

Psalm 30:2 O LORD my God, I cried unto thee, and thou hast healed me.

Psalm 30:3 O LORD, thou hast brought up my soul from the grave: thou hast kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit.

Psalm 30:4 Sing unto the LORD, O ye saints of his, and give thanks at the remembrance of his holiness.

Psalm 30:5 For his anger endureth but a moment; in his favour is life: weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning.

Psalm 30:6 And in my prosperity I said, I shall never be moved.

Psalm 30:7 LORD, by thy favour thou hast made my mountain to stand strong: thou didst hide thy face, and I was troubled.

Psalm 30:8 I cried to thee, O LORD; and unto the LORD I made supplication.

Psalm 30:9 What profit is there in my blood, when I go down to the pit? Shall the dust praise thee? shall it declare thy truth?

Psalm 30:10 Hear, O LORD, and have mercy upon me: LORD, be thou my helper.

Psalm 30:11 Thou hast turned for me my mourning into dancing: thou hast put off my sackcloth, and girded me with gladness;

Psalm 30:12 To the end that my glory may sing praise to thee, and not be silent. O LORD my God, I will give thanks unto thee for ever.


Isaiah 57:1 The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away, none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil to come.
Isaiah 57:2 He shall enter into peace: they shall rest in their beds, each one walking in his uprightness.
Isaiah 57:3 But draw near hither, ye sons of the sorceress, the seed of the adulterer and the whore.
Isaiah 57:4 Against whom do ye sport yourselves? against whom make ye a wide mouth, and draw out the tongue? are ye not children of transgression, a seed of falsehood.
Isaiah 57:5 Enflaming yourselves with idols under every green tree, slaying the children in the valleys under the clifts of the rocks?
Isaiah 57:6 Among the smooth stones of the stream is thy portion; they, they are thy lot: even to them hast thou poured a drink offering, thou hast offered a meat offering. Should I receive comfort in these?
Isaiah 57:7 Upon a lofty and high mountain hast thou set thy bed: even thither wentest thou up to offer sacrifice.
Isaiah 57:8 Behind the doors also and the posts hast thou set up thy remembrance: for thou hast discovered thyself to another than me, and art gone up; thou hast enlarged thy bed, and made thee a covenant with them; thou lovedst their bed where thou sawest it.
Isaiah 57:9 And thou wentest to the king with ointment, and didst increase thy perfumes, and didst send thy messengers far off, and didst debase thyself even unto hell.
Isaiah 57:10 Thou art wearied in the greatness of thy way; yet saidst thou not, There is no hope: thou hast found the life of thine hand; therefore thou wast not grieved.
Isaiah 57:11 And of whom hast thou been afraid or feared, that thou hast lied, and hast not remembered me, nor laid it to thy heart? have not I held my peace even of old, and thou fearest me not?
Isaiah 57:12 I will declare thy righteousness, and thy works; for they shall not profit thee.
Isaiah 57:13 When thou criest, let thy companies deliver thee; but the wind shall carry them all away; vanity shall take them: but he that putteth his trust in me shall possess the land, and shall inherit my holy mountain;
Isaiah 57:14 And shall say, Cast ye up, cast ye up, prepare the way, take up the stumblingblock out of the way of my people.
Isaiah 57:15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.
Isaiah 57:16 For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the souls which I have made.

SOME PEOPLE ARE JUST GOING TO HELL

Isaiah 57:17 For the iniquity of his covetousness was I wroth, and smote him: I hid me, and was wroth, and he went on frowardly in the way of his heart.

Isaiah 57:18 I have seen his ways, and will heal him: I will lead him also, and restore comforts unto him and to his mourners.
STILL, ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS REPENT AND BE SAVED AND HE WILL HEAL. Always calling for repentance so they might be saved. BUT SOME JUST WON'T REPENT AND THAT IS NOT GODS FAULT?

Isaiah 57:19 I create the fruit of the lips; Peace, peace to him that is far off, and to him that is near, saith the LORD; and I will heal him.

Isaiah 57:20 But the wicked are like the troubled sea, when it cannot rest, whose waters cast up mire and dirt.

Isaiah 57:21 There is no peace, saith my God, to the wicked.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You think ETERNAL TORMENT is preferable to death?

Aha!! You have just clearly exposed the error of your theory.

EVERY person would prefer to not exist than to face torment forever. Which is WHY atheists believe they won't exist after they die.

No more feelings of any kind.

People beg for death when being tortured. THAT IS THE DISCUSSION

Bcause most people are stupid and don't know what's ahead. When they arrive in Hades (hell), they will wish for earth. Or hope their loved ones won't make the same mistake they made. Just like the rich man.

 

[kleronomos]

Micah 7:18 Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.

THIS is what we are given as to GODS CHARACTER, therefore 'eternal torment' can not be anything HE WOULD HAVE CONCEIVED OF. This comes from the twisting of the words of God by deception.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

I'm late to this party, so I don't want to butt in here right now. It just might be something that would be a blessing to open the understanding of those not exposed to this perspective. Perhaps this has already been said, but not from this angle. Keep in mind that it is not an evangelical salvation message, but rather one directed to a local church body. I have faced the challenges of this denomination and so have picked this as a helpful correction on the subject of the Seventh Day Adventist religion.

https://www.kjv1611only.com/video/0...derson/The_Seventh_Day_Adventists_Exposed.mp4

 

[kleronomos]

I can’t believe some of the things people have the boldness to say.

Hopefully we will never have to see their mouths hanging open in disbelief as ours do now, because hopefully they will come to repentance. IT HURTS my soul to read these things and to know what is coming. All we can do is plant and water and pray Gods will be done.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Micah 7:18 Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.

THIS is what we are given as to GODS CHARACTER, therefore 'eternal torment' can not be anything HE WOULD HAVE CONCEIVED OF. This comes from the twisting of the words of God by deception.

The teaching comes straight from God's Word, which unfortunately, you have been deceived from understanding.

In Rev 19:20 we read about the beast and FP (2 humans) being cast alive (with body) into the LOF. Then, we read about the 1,000 literal reign of King Jesus, and at the end, at the battle of Gog and Magog, we read of Satan being cast into the LOF and THEY THEY THEY will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

So this is solid evidence that the 2 humans survived the fires of the LOF. Did their bodies? Of course not. No physical mortal body can survive any fire that engulfs them. But the Bible says "they", which includes both the beast and FP along with Satan, who will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

So you have zero support for your annihilation theory. Both the beast and FP will still be IN the LOF and being tormented, which will continue day and night for ever and ever.

Totally annihilating your annihilation theory.

You won't even address the fact that the beast and FP will have been IN IN IN the LOF when joined by Satan.