And the SMOKE of their torment...No eternal damnation for anyone, except the Devil

[Runningman]

I probably read mine more than you do. Just a guess. Based on YOUR posts.


Yes, is absolutely ABLE TO. But, you STILL haven't found any verse that says He WILL. And you seem unaware of the difference.


Their bodies.


Their bodies.


Yep. Their bodies will cease to exist.


When their resurrected body is cast into the LOF, it surely WILL disappear.


God WILL destroy the body.


ERROR ALRERT, ERROR ALRERT!!

This passage is directly to BELIEVERS, and refers to divine discipline that includes physical death.


Their bodies.


How does this verse support your anti-ECT agenda?


Good verse for describing what will happen to the body at physical death. It does NOT help you at all.


Yep. When a person dies, none of their plans will go on.


The dead won't know anything about what's happening on the earth. They don't have CNN in heaven or Hades.


Physical death, OBVI0USLY to those with discernment.


Nothing about souls disappearing.


Obviously referring to bodies. How do souls, which are immaterial, "burn like straw". Ever see a soul burn?


Yes, He SURE CAN. But where is the verse that SAYS He WILL. Oh, yeah, you can't differentiate between "can" and "will". Sorry.


Their bodies will perish.


Bodies, my dear man.


A "punishment" must be experienced in order to BE a punishment. This verse proves ECT. Thanks!


Thanks to Adam, all humans will experience physical death. Heb 9:27 proves it as well.


Bodies, like cities, will burn up. Yep. Thanks for another great verse that refutes annihilation of the soul.


Ah, yes. The "second death". The bodies of unbelievers will be resurrected to attend the GWT judgment. And they WILL DIE again.

That makes 2. Real simple.

Do you have any more verses that you'd like me to comment on? This is fun.

Not only the body is destroyed in the lake of fire. If that was a true there’d be verses to support it. It’s a false assumption. It’s better to know that since a person is a body, soul, and spirit that when the Bible says a person is destroyed then their entire being is destroyed. Hence why Gos is able to destroy body and soul in hell.

 

[Runningman]

Their soul. I guess you never read Rev 6, where John describes SEEING the souls of saints "under the altar" in heaven. Any number of those souls could have died by very hot fire, bombs, etc. And as they are TALKING in heaven, any number of them experienced a TOTAL destruction of their bodies. But so what? At the resurrection of believers, God will miraculously put ALL the atoms and molecules back together and make an immortal body for the believer to live in forever.

The soul of the saved individual lives forever like Jesus promised. That’s completely in line with the Bible. We’ve been talking about the unsaved, and the Bible says they are destroyed. When Jesus said those who believe in Him live forever the evidence from Revelation 6 and Revelation 20 is clear their soul is still living waiting for a future resurrection.

Those who perish are not living, hence the clear absence from scripture of the unsaved being tormented forever. This doctrine doesn’t exist in the Bible because the Bible from cover to cover teaches the unrighteous die and are destroyed. They absolutely do not live forever.

 

[Runningman]

Runningman said:
Utterly destroyed means cease to exist.

The poster is very obviously driven by his intense and extreme emotions, which I have called maudlin sentimentality.

Since he believes that ECT is CRUEL, he is guilty of projection, whereby he assumes that since he is highly offended by ECT, that God would naturally have the same emotions as he does, and therefore, ECT cannot be real.

I’m onto you now, I was curious who John Stott is since I’ve never heard of him. I looked him up and started reading an article outlining an argument of conditional immortality versus ECT. Guess what I found there?

The preface to the outline says this:

“Discussion of the matter often becomes extremely emotional, and no excuse should have to be made for this. People dissenting from more traditional views are accused of doing so for ‘emotional’ reasons, whatever they may actually be.”

There you have it. The ECT crowd needs to first portray their opponents as emotional unstable and blinded by extreme feelings. That explains why you keep misusing the term “maudlin sentimentality” and assigning labels to me such as “highly offended” because you learned it in a discussion somewhere and you’re trolling me with it even after I’ve told you to stop again, and again, and again.

If you don’t know what a word means, by all means look it up and don’t make assumptions.

The word maudlin has a connotation to it that someone is emotional/sentimental because of drunkenness. Is it annoying you argue against clear scripture? Yes absolutely, but I’m certainly not crying or driven by extreme emotion. I’m one of the calmest and coolest people anyone can meet, my nerves are like steel, and I am not easily disturbed.

In your imagination you believe I’m overcome with emotion, but actually knocking down your false doctrine is more like just putting a check in a box as I go through my day doing chores.

Laundry ✅
Cooking ✅
Cleaning ✅
Checking discussions on CC ✅
Going out ✅
Working ✅

So stop your projecting.

What you don’t realize about me is that I only conform to the truth from scripture. That’s a fact. I have really no investment in whether or not the unsaved are destroyed or are tormented forever. Not my call and I couldn’t change it if I wanted to. The Bible simply doesn’t say what you’re preaching and I’ll reject it until the day I die unless God shows me otherwise.

On the other hand, plenty of scripture from Genesis to Revelation that prove the Biblical points I’m showing. I surely have no reason to be maudlin when I have the backing of the Bible firmly on my side. I wish you could see how beaming with confidence I am. That’d surely change your tune.

 

[FreeGrace2]

So obviously you’re wrong. The he word perish means the same thing as annihilate. Don’t just make things up because I do always come prepared with sources if necessary.

Annihilate - (Source Merriam-Webster)
to cause to cease to exist : to do away with entirely so that nothing remains

Annihilate - (Source Cambridge Dictionary)
to destroy something completely so that nothing is left:

Annihilate - (Source Oxford Dictionary)
to destroy somebody/something/yourself completely

Perish G622 - (Source Strong’s Concordance)
apollumi
Strong's Concordance

​

apollumi: to destroy, destroy utterly
Original Word: ἀπόλλυμι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: apollumi
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-ol'-loo-mee)
Definition: to destroy, destroy utterly
Usage: (a) I kill, destroy, (b) I lose, mid: I am perishing (the resultant death being viewed as certain).

None of this refers to the immaterial soul. All of this refers to the human body.

 

[Runningman]

None of this refers to the immaterial soul. All of this refers to the human body.

No it’s the physical body, soul, and spirit.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
I probably read mine more than you do. Just a guess. Based on YOUR posts.

Yes, is absolutely ABLE TO. But, you STILL haven't found any verse that says He WILL. And you seem unaware of the difference.

Not only the body is destroyed in the lake of fire.

Did you NOT read my post above? I challenged you to quote a verse that SAYS the soul WILL BE destroyed in the LOF. All you do is come back with your opinions, and NO evidence from Scripture.

If that was a true there’d be verses to support it. [/QUOTE]
You assume that none of the unbelievers at the GWT will be tormented day and night for ever and ever, even though the beast and FP will be. And by the time Satan JOINS them in the LOF, they will have been in it for 1,000 years.

And YOU have no verses to support your claim.

It’s a false assumption. It’s better to know that since a person is a body, soul, and spirit that when the Bible says a person is destroyed then their entire being is destroyed.

That's NOT a "fair assumption" at all. In fact, it's a terrible presumption.

The beast and FP, both humans will have been in the LOF for 1,000 years before Satan/angels join them. And THEY (all of them; beast, FP, Satan, and all his fallen angels) will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

So why won't all the unbelievers at the GWT get the same treatment, since they will be cast into the same LOF?

And. . . you won't answer that question.

Hence why Gos is able to destroy body and soul in hell.

There is no argumenrt about what God is able to do. That isn't even the point. You've got a huge problem on your hands; to prove that none of the GWT unbelievers will be tormented day and night for ever and ever, when the beast and FP WILL BE.

There are NO VERSES that support your presumption. And you know it.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The soul of the saved individual lives forever like Jesus promised. That’s completely in line with the Bible. We’ve been talking about the unsaved, and the Bible says they are destroyed.

I will remind again that what is destroyed is the physical material mortal body. You just don't want to believe that.

Those who perish are not living, hence the clear absence from scripture of the unsaved being tormented forever.

It seems impossible to get through to you.

The Bible SAYS that the beast and FP will be tormented forever and ever. But you CAN'T defend with evidence your presumption that NONE of the GWT unbelievers will be.

This doctrine doesn’t exist in the Bible because the Bible from cover to cover teaches the unrighteous die and are destroyed. They absolutely do not live forever.

Your presumption is unimpressive.

2 human beings will be tormented forever; the beast and FP. But you can't prove from Scripture that the GWT unbelievers won't be, even though they are going to be cast into the SAME LOF.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I’m onto you now, I was curious who John Stott is since I’ve never heard of him. I looked him up and started reading an article outlining an argument of conditional immortality versus ECT. Guess what I found there?

The preface to the outline says this:

“Discussion of the matter often becomes extremely emotional, and no excuse should have to be made for this. People dissenting from more traditional views are accused of doing so for ‘emotional’ reasons, whatever they may actually be.”

In YOUR case, you already told us. You believe that ECT is CRUEL. And since God is perfect, He cannot be CRUEL, therefore ECT cannot be true. You are projecting your own emotions onto God.

There you have it.

Yes, I do. (I know you meant this differently, but it fits so perfectly after my analysis).

The ECT crowd needs to first portray their opponents as emotional unstable and blinded by extreme feelings.

You're being emotional again. We don't need anything. But we see from the anti-ECT crowd that they ADMIT to their highly emotional feelings.

That explains why you keep misusing the term “maudlin sentimentality” and assigning labels to me such as “highly offended” because you learned it in a discussion somewhere and you’re trolling me with it even after I’ve told you to stop again, and again, and again.

This is just a lot of baloney. You couldn't be more wrong.

The word maudlin has a connotation to it that someone is emotional/sentimental because of drunkenness.

While you love to focus on drunkenness, I explained HOW I was using it. But you dismiss the reality and make up what you want.

Is it annoying you argue against clear scripture?

Quite the contrary. When I read that the beast and FP have spent 1,000 years IN the LOF and Satan joins them to be tormented for ever and ever, it is you who argues against the Word.

[QOUTE] Yes absolutely, but I’m certainly not crying or driven by extreme emotion.[/QUOTE]
Do you believe that ECT is CRUEL?

I’m one of the calmest and coolest people anyone can meet, my nerves are like steel, and I am not easily disturbed.

You can add "laugh riot" to that list. You have demonstrated your thin skin and emotions over and over. You are not kidding anyone.

In your imagination you believe I’m overcome with emotion, but actually knocking down your false doctrine is more like just putting a check in a box as I go through my day doing chores.

You certainly are free to fantasize anything you want.

So stop your projecting.

Oh, that's funny.

You think ECT is CRUEL, which is why you oppose it. God is perfect, so to your emotional standards, God cannot be CRUEL, so you reject ECT because YOU think ECT is CRUEL. And God cannot be CRUEL. That's how projection works.

I've projected NOTHING onto you. lol

What you don’t realize about me is that I only conform to the truth from scripture.

Maybe in other areas, I don't know. But regarding what God will do the unbeliever, you sure have drifted away. Way away.

I have really no investment in whether or not the unsaved are destroyed or are tormented forever.

Of course you do. You believe that ECT is CRUEL.

Not my call and I couldn’t change it if I wanted to. The Bible simply doesn’t say what you’re preaching and I’ll reject it until the day I die unless God shows me otherwise.

That WILL BE in eternity.

On the other hand, plenty of scripture from Genesis to Revelation that prove the Biblical points I’m showing. I surely have no reason to be maudlin when I have the backing of the Bible firmly on my side. I wish you could see how beaming with confidence I am. That’d surely change your tune.

You can't even provide evidence from the Bible that shows clearly that the GWT crowd WON'T get the SAME TREATMENT as the beast and FP. You can't snow me.

You can "beam" with whatever you want. Doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is evidence, and you have none that shows that the GWT crowd WON'T be tormented forever when the beast and FP WILL BE.

That's inconsistent and there is no evidence to show what you claim.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
None of this refers to the immaterial soul. All of this refers to the human body.

No it’s the physical body, soul, and spirit.

Then PROVE it with verses that SAY the soul and spirit will cease to exist in the LOF. That's all you need to prove your claim.

 

[Runningman]

FreeGrace2 said:
None of this refers to the immaterial soul. All of this refers to the human body.

Then PROVE it with verses that SAY the soul and spirit will cease to exist in the LOF. That's all you need to prove your claim.

😳 invincible ignorance.

These verses prove what we have been saying for dozens of pages and you keep saying we didn’t prove anything and say they only apply to the physical body which is something you can’t prove.

This verse, among others, show that complete person is spirit, body, and soul:

1 Thess. 5:23
23Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely, and may your entire spirit, soul, and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

These below verses show what happen to those unrighteous, unsaved, persons. Their spirit, soul, and body utterly destroyed. Get these verses through your skull:

James 4:12
"God alone, who gave the law, is the Judge. He alone has the power to save or to destroy."

Hebrews 10:39
"But we are not like those who turn away from God to their own destruction..."

Philippians 3:18-19
"For I have told you often before, and I say it again with tears in my eyes, that there are many whose conduct shows they are really enemies of the cross of Christ.
19 They are headed for destruction."

Psalm 92:7
"Though the wicked sprout like weeds and evildoers flourish they will be destroyed forever."

Psalm 37:20
"But the wicked will die... they will disappear like smoke."

Psalm 1:6:
"... For the Lord watches over the path of the godly, but the path of the wicked leads to destruction."

Hebrews 10:26-27
"There is only the terrible expectation of God's judgment and the raging fire that will consume his enemies."

2 Peter 3:7
"...for the day of judgment, when ungodly people will be destroyed."

Romans 2:7
"He will give eternal life to those who keep on doing good, seeking after the glory and honor and immortality that God offers."

Genesis 3:19
"For you were made from dust, and to dust you will return."

Psalm 146:4
"When they breathe their last, they return to the earth, and all their plans die with them."

Ecclesiastes 9:5
"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten."

Ezekiel 18:20
The soul who sins is the one who will die.
Jeremiah 19:5
"They have built pagan shrines to Baal, and there they burn their sons as sacrifices to Baal. I have never commanded such a horrible deed; it never even crossed My mind to command such a thing!"

Malachi 4:1, 4:3 "The day of judgment is coming, burning like a furnace. On that day the arrogant and the wicked will be burned up like straw. They will be consumed—roots, branches, and all... On the day when I act, you will tread upon the wicked as if they were dust under your feet," says the Lord of Heaven's Armies."

Matthew 10:28
"And fear not them which kill the body but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life."

John 6:51
"I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Anyone who eats this bread will live forever" (the offer to live forever only makes sense if it were possible to not live forever.)

2 Thessalonians 1:9
"They will be punished with eternal destruction,forever separated from the Lord and from his glorious power."

Romans 6:23
"For the wages of sin is death."

2 Peter 2:6
"and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, having made them an example unto those that should live ungodly"

Revelation 20:14-15
"And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the lake of fire. And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire."

 

[Magenta]

Psalm 92:7
"Though the wicked sprout like weeds and evildoers flourish they will be destroyed forever."

Psalm 37:20
"But the wicked will die... they will disappear like smoke."

Psalm 1:6:
"... For the Lord watches over the path of the godly, but the path of the wicked leads to destruction."

Hebrews 10:26-27
"There is only the terrible expectation of God's judgment and the raging fire that will consume his enemies."

2 Peter 3:7
"...for the day of judgment, when ungodly people will be destroyed."

Romans 2:7
"He will give eternal life to those who keep on doing good, seeking after the glory and honor and immortality that God offers."

Genesis 3:19
"For you were made from dust, and to dust you will return."

Psalm 146:4
"When they breathe their last, they return to the earth, and all their plans die with them."

Ecclesiastes 9:5
"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing,
neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten."

Ezekiel 18:20
The soul who sins is the one who will die.

Jeremiah 19:5
"They have built pagan shrines to Baal, and there they burn their sons as sacrifices to Baal. I have never
commanded such a horrible deed; it never even crossed My mind to command such a thing!"

Malachi 4:1, 4:3 "The day of judgment is coming, burning like a furnace. On that day the arrogant and the wicked will be burned up like straw. They will be consumed—roots, branches, and all... On the day when I act, you will tread upon the wicked as if they were dust under your feet," says the Lord of Heaven's Armies."

Matthew 10:28
"And fear not them which kill the body but are not able to kill the soul: but
rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone
who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life."

John 6:51
"I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Anyone who eats this bread will live forever"
(the offer to live forever only makes sense if it were possible to not live forever.)

2 Thessalonians 1:9
"They will be punished with eternal destruction,forever separated from the Lord and from his glorious power."

Romans 6:23
"For the wages of sin is death."

2 Peter 2:6
"and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemned them with
an overthrow, having made them an example unto those that should live ungodly"

Revelation 20:14-15
"And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the
lake of fire. And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire."

Psalm 92:6-7
Thank you for the inspiration

 

[Runningman]

Psalm 92:6-7
Thank you for the inspiration

Just glad I could inspire by sharing something from the Bible. The picture looks good 😁

 

[TMS]

Destroyed forever ....
Or forever destroyed..
Forever being punished alive.
Or forever punished with death.

The soul that sinneth shall die.
Eze 18:4 & 20 "The soul that sinneth, it shall die".....

Being conscious is not death. Being alive in any form forever is not death.

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Eternal life in any form is not death, and eternal life is only given to the saved.

 

[FreeGrace2]

😳 invincible ignorance.

This is what I posted:
FreeGrace2 said:
"None of this refers to the immaterial soul. All of this refers to the human body.

Then PROVE it with verses that SAY the soul and spirit will cease to exist in the LOF. That's all you need to prove your claim.

These verses prove what we have been saying for dozens of pages and you keep saying we didn’t prove anything and say they only apply to the physical body which is something you can’t prove."

The invincible ignorance is claiming what the Bible doesn't say.

This verse, among others, show that complete person is spirit, body, and soul

OK, now your challenge is to show that in the context of the LOF, the Bible makes clear that destruction will be to everyone's body, soul and spirit. Can you do it? No, you can't.

The ONLY thing that is affected by fire is material substance, oh, say, like bodies. Not IMMATERIAL things, like, oh, you know, souls.

You are PRESUMING what the Bible doesn't say.

I'm not going to address your long list of verses Been there, done that. If you didn't pay attention, that's on you.

Revelation 20:14-15
"And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the lake of fire. And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire."

What you seem totally oblivious to is the fact that "the second death" refers specifically and narrowly to the resurrected yet still mortal body of the unbeliever.

Where in the Bible can you find any verse that shows that the body, AND soul AND spirit have already died the FIRST TIME?

That's where you fail. You don't want to accept that ECT is true. You think it is CRUEL and therefore you just can't bring yourself to accept what YOU think (opinion) is CRUEL.

So, get busy and find that verse that will bail you out. The verse about when the body AND soul/spirit have DIED the FIRST TIME.

Should be interesting to see what you find.

You are conflicted by your own devices. You want to claim that all mention of "death" regarding the LOF includes body and soul of the unbeliever, so that there is nothing left of the WHOLE person.

Yet, the Bible describes the LOF as the SECOND DEATH.

So, since you want to include both body and soul to the "death" in the LOF, you MUST FIND a verse that clearly shows both body and soul of the unbeliever having already died the FIRST TIME.

Or you don't have a case.

otoh, there is a verse that clearly shows that every person WILL die once, and then the judgment.

Heb 9:27 - Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,

This verse shows physical death BEFORE judgment. Obviously. Cannot refer to souls, since we know that souls go either to heaven or hades.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Being conscious is not death. Being alive in any form forever is not death.

In your opinion. Not in Spiritual reality.

Eternal life as defined by the BIble is certainly not a simple awareness of being.
Eternal life as defined by the Bible is wholeness of spirit, soul & body.

Mere consciousness is not living eternally as The Bible defines it.
Jesus didn't say the fire prepared was temporary. He said it was eternal.
It wouldn't need to be eternal if spirit-beings ever ceased to exist.


“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
~Matt 25:41

 

[Runningman]

This is what I posted:
FreeGrace2 said:
"None of this refers to the immaterial soul. All of this refers to the human body.

The devil being an invisible spirit cannot be threatened by literal fire in the LOF.

Then PROVE it with verses that SAY the soul and spirit will cease to exist in the LOF. That's all you need to prove your claim.

Prove the physical body is destroyed in the lake of fire. It doesn’t offer the granular descriptions you require. The lake of fire is the second death, that’s symbolic language.



OK, now your challenge is to show that in the context of the LOF, the Bible makes clear that destruction will be to everyone's body, soul and spirit. Can you do it? No, you can't.

The ONLY thing that is affected by fire is material substance, oh, say, like bodies.

Then by your own words the immaterial souls of people and the devil will not be tormented int the fire.

Not IMMATERIAL things, like, oh, you know, souls.

the lake of fire is the second death. The first death is when God destroys body and soul in hell.

What you seem totally oblivious to is the fact that "the second death" refers specifically and narrowly to the resurrected yet still mortal body of the unbeliever.

Then that isn’t death. Destroying a physical body doesn’t 100% put someone to death in our faith. I believe where the Bible says death it means total death of all parts of a person. I see no other reason to believe otherwise because conclusion is that if only a body is killed then that is just death of the body; hardly a completely death.

Where in the Bible can you find any verse that shows that the body, AND soul AND spirit have already died the FIRST TIME?

Matthew 10:28 refers to body and soul be destroyed in hell. Typically if someone is destroyed, you know, they die.

That's where you fail. You don't want to accept that ECT is true. You think it is CRUEL and therefore you just can't bring yourself to accept what YOU think (opinion) is CRUEL.

Quote the post # I said that. (It doesn’t exist, btw)

You are conflicted by your own devices. You want to claim that all mention of "death" regarding the LOF includes body and soul of the unbeliever, so that there is nothing left of the WHOLE person.

Yet, the Bible describes the LOF as the SECOND DEATH.

Not conflicted even a bit. Do you remember a dozen or so pages dedicated almost entirely to Matthew 10:28, the verse you keep rejecting as the only alternative to being saved? The LOF is the second death because they are destroyed a 🥁 second time.

 

[Runningman]

In your opinion. Not in Spiritual reality.

Eternal life as defined by the BIble is certainly not a simple awareness of being.
Eternal life as defined by the Bible is wholeness of spirit, soul & body.

Mere consciousness is not living eternally as The Bible defines it.
Jesus didn't say the fire prepared was temporary. He said it was eternal.
It wouldn't need to be eternal if spirit-beings ever ceased to exist.


“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
~Matt 25:41

What TMS said is spiritual reality.

Imagine being a point of consciousness, fully aware and cognizant of your surroundings and self. That can’t be described as being put to death or the translators chose the worst word possible to describe what they meant.

The word you’re looking for is eternal life or at least eternally conscious, which don’t exist in the Bible to describe the fate of the unsaved.

 

[FreeGrace2]

This is what I posted:
FreeGrace2 said:
"None of this refers to the immaterial soul. All of this refers to the human body.

The devil being an invisible spirit cannot be threatened by literal fire in the LOF.

And you are exactly RIGHT!! However, it seems you intentionally ignore the FACT that for unbelievers, they will be thrown in WITH their physical bodies, which WILL BE utterly destroyed, without a doubt.

And the Bible is clear about ol' Satan. He will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Along with the beast, FP and the REST of humanity's unbelievers.

Thanks for proving ECT.

Prove the physical body is destroyed in the lake of fire.

Are you serious? Is this some kind of argument that it won't be?

It doesn’t offer the granular descriptions you require.

Tell me about this "granular description" you speak of. I don't know what that is.

The lake of fire is the second death, that’s symbolic language.

Your opinions keep getting in the way. Where do you find that notion? It's just your opinion.

It is LITERAL. All humans are destined to die ONCE, and then the judgment. For believers, that judgment is the Bema, where they will be rewarded or not. And they won't die again.

For unbelievers, their bodies WILL BE resurrected to meet the GWT judgment, and then they WILL BE cast into the LOF where their physical bodies WILL die AGAIN.

Your lack of biblical knowledge is just stunning.

Are you denying that unbelievers will receive their physical bodies by by resurrection??

OK, now your challenge is to show that in the context of the LOF, the Bible makes clear that destruction will be to everyone's body, soul and spirit. Can you do it? No, you can't.

Uh, that's MY challenge to YOU. And you KNOW that you can't do it.

Then by your own words the immaterial souls of people and the devil will not be tormented int the fire.

Have you lost your ability to read? I've never said that. But go ahead and just try to prove this ridiculous claim. Rev 20:10 REFUTES this claim.

the lake of fire is the second death. The first death is when God destroys body and soul in hell.

Since you believe that "death" and "destroy" both mean "cease to exist", how then can any unbeliever attend the GWT judgment.

You have just painted yourself into a corner. A very dark corner.

Then that isn’t death. Destroying a physical body doesn’t 100% put someone to death in our faith.

You just don't know what you are talking about.

I see no other reason to believe otherwise because conclusion is that if only a body is killed then that is just death of the body; hardly a completely death.

Of the body, it sure is. The Bible is clear that there will be an eternal torment. The ONLY THING left is the soul. Boom.

Matthew 10:28 refers to body and soul be destroyed in hell.

Does it say that both soul and body WILL BE? No. You're just on another huge presumption.

Typically if someone is destroyed, you know, they die.

Yep. When the body id destroyed we do call that death. Any more brilliant comments?

Not conflicted even a bit. Do you remember a dozen or so pages dedicated almost entirely to Matthew 10:28, the verse you keep rejecting as the only alternative to being saved? The LOF is the second death because they are destroyed a 🥁 second time.

How can someone who "ceases to exist" (destroy, remember?) be destroyed again.

If someone no longer exists, how can they be destroyed again?

And, since all unbelievers will be resurrected for the GWT, this OBVIOUSLY proves that they aren't destroyed at all.

You've really boxed yourself in. But will you come to your senses and realize that?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Imagine being a point of consciousness, fully aware and cognizant of your surroundings and self. That can’t be described as being put to death or the translators chose the worst word possible to describe what they meant.

The word you’re looking for is eternal life or at least eternally conscious, which don’t exist in the Bible to describe the fate of the unsaved.

The very FACT that the Bible SAYS unbelievers will be cast into the LOF where the beast (human) FP (also human) and Satan have been cast already and will be tormented day and night for ever and ever, SHOWS (don't need your picky words) that they will suffer the same fate.

 

[HeIsHere]

Is he a Calvinist??

Is there anyone that doesn't have elements of Calvinism ?..... I believe he held to some of the tenets.