i'm not christian but i do have some questions

[HealthAndHappiness]

Hydraxolotl,

I'll save you some time. Here's the foundation of Christianity in a nutshell. It was condensed from a lecture to the philosophy department of Arizona State U. If you have any questions I'll try to get to them tomorrow.
Good night.

 

[Mem]

most of my thoughts on christians are based on media influenced by athiests, cherry picked examples, cutting out context etc. so generally i can't come to a conclusion on that alone, but if i had to say, it's not great. generally when i think of the stereotypical christian i think of someone that refuses to listen, ignores the evidence they're asking so often to see and can't comprehend the science they're trying to refute.

you said you don't believe in evolution? why not? it's a phenomena observed in fruit flies and bacteria. their genetic code dictates what they'll grow up into, and through mutation, which has also been observed, this genetic code can be tweaked just a little, and if something were to be changed like a fruit flies wing span that gives them an advantage, they would spread their genetic code more than the fruit flies who through mutation ended up at a disadvantage. and as this happens every generation for millions of years, what once was a fish, can become a lizard, which becomes a mammal which becomes an ape.

What would be the advantage (evolutionary or otherwise) of homosexuality since no genetic codes may be 'spread' through it?

There is a bible verse that says, "faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen". I think we all believe what want to believe, what we hope to be true, and what we put our faith in those things. Do you think this to be an accurate conclusion?

 

[Inquisitor]

i am an agnostic, basically meaning i don't believe we can know whether there is a god or not, but for the most part i live my life like an atheist. below i will list a few questions i would like answered to better understand where you all are coming from, and feel free to ask me anything too. (this is a repost, i was told it would fit better here)

1) how did you convert to christianity or were you christian since childhood?

I converted in the late twenties.

2) what is your opinion on the LGBT community?

No opinion, none of my business.

3) what is your opinion on atheists?

I don't think anyone can claim there is no God. How would anyone know whether there is a God or not?

The existence of God cannot be explored by science or even philosophy.

God cannot be known unless God reveals His existence to someone.

4) have you ever questioned your faith?

I have questioned many aspects of Christianity over the years. But I don't believe that I have ever questioned, the death and resurrection of the Christ.

5) do you believe media like harry potter or pokemon to be problematic? why or why not?
Pure fiction.

 

[Inquisitor]

i am an agnostic, basically meaning i don't believe we can know whether there is a god or not, but for the most part i live my life like an atheist. below i will list a few questions i would like answered to better understand where you all are coming from, and feel free to ask me anything too. (this is a repost, i was told it would fit better here)

1) how did you convert to christianity or were you christian since childhood?

2) what is your opinion on the LGBT community?

3) what is your opinion on atheists?

4) have you ever questioned your faith?

5) do you believe media like harry potter or pokemon to be problematic? why or why not?

Does it ever concern you that you may be held accountable, for every word you have spoken?

In other words, are you at all concerned over, the fact, that you will be judged?

 

[PennEd]

how did you come to that conclusion? was there a survey on this or do you just know it deep down in your heart of hearts?

Well first off, you asked how CHRISTIANS thought. Why did you ask if you weren't going to accept the answer?

My answer is based on Scripture. I KNOW the Word is Truth:


Romans 1:18-22

New King James Version

God’s Wrath on Unrighteousness
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,


You are literally not capable to understand spiritual truths because you need the Holy Spirit in order to understand them:


1 Corinthians 2:14

New King James Version

14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

What you, and everyone, desperately needs is the Gospel. Here it is:
God wrapped Himself in human flesh in the form of His Son, Jesus the Messiah. Conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of a virgin. He suffered, was crucified, and died to pay OUR sin debt. He was raised to life from the grave to prove He had defeated death. If you confess Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that His Father resurrected Him to Life on the 3rd day, you WILL be saved. You will be filled, and sealed with the Holy Spirit, who will empower ALL to turn from their sins. The sin of adultery, lying, stealing, homosexuality, gossip, slander, drunkenness, covetousness, etc... And most importantly the sin of DEAD works, or a moral life in an attempt to EARN Salvation. He will also equip you to love like He did and do good works for HIS Glory.

 

[birdie]

i am an agnostic, basically meaning i don't believe we can know whether there is a god or not, but for the most part i live my life like an atheist. below i will list a few questions i would like answered to better understand where you all are coming from, and feel free to ask me anything too. (this is a repost, i was told it would fit better here)

1) how did you convert to christianity or were you christian since childhood?

2) what is your opinion on the LGBT community?

3) what is your opinion on atheists?

4) have you ever questioned your faith?

5) do you believe media like harry potter or pokemon to be problematic? why or why not?

1) God drew me by his spirit. I was very alone and empty in my life and on a very difficult night I called out to God for help, which was very very unusual for me since I was not religious and did not have an opinion on God, except maybe being turned off by religion. In the morning I woke up feeling spiritually fortified and at peace and I realized that there was a God who had answered my prayer. Some weeks later, an ex-gang member invited me to a church where a traveling evangelist was preaching about the passover in the Bible. That is where God told the Israelites to put the blood of a perfect lamb on their house and the angel of death would pass them by. He explained that the lamb was a picture of Jesus and that God was calling people. He invited anyone who wanted Jesus to save them to come forward to be prayed with, so I went forward and I confessed my sins and asked Jesus to come into my heart. I felt like I was soaring as Christ entered my heart and ever since then I have always believed and had a relationship with God. I talk with him and I read the Bible which I know to be true. I have had so many prayers answered by a loving God. It is so different from before where I was taught that the universe is a random series of chance events with no purpose, and in which I felt I had to make everything happen by my own effort and wits. When God found me, I gave everything to him who came from heaven to die for me and to save me forever. Praise God for what he did and still does.

2) people of great value as are all human beings

3) people who may be saved one day. The Bible says that the fool has said in his heart that there is no God, but how that relates to any particular individual is between that person and God

4) No, not since I was born from above. I have always believed in Jesus and God since then. The Bible says about his own children that God bears witness in their hearts

5) I won't fuss too much about Harry Potter or Pokemon, but I have noticed that zillions of Television cartoons for children talk about magic as being cool. In so doing, they miss out on the opportunity to let children and others know that there is a loving God they can pray to with their life needs and situations, a God who loves them and who will really help them because he is alive and cares! Magic is sort of like a poor substitute without a living God to listen and respond. Jesus cares. That is why he came to earth to help us, to walk to a cross to bear our sins, and to restore us to a relationship with God.

 

[Eli1]

@Hydraxolotl i can see that you’re now getting the full Christian experience.
‘Wait until you meet the flat earthers , conspiracy theorists, false prophets and young earth believers and your experience will be complete.

It’s kinda like talking to Richard Dawkins and David Koresh.

 

[CherieR]

most of my thoughts on christians are based on media influenced by athiests, cherry picked examples, cutting out context etc. so generally i can't come to a conclusion on that alone, but if i had to say, it's not great. generally when i think of the stereotypical christian i think of someone that refuses to listen, ignores the evidence they're asking so often to see and can't comprehend the science they're trying to refute.

you said you don't believe in evolution? why not? it's a phenomena observed in fruit flies and bacteria. their genetic code dictates what they'll grow up into, and through mutation, which has also been observed, this genetic code can be tweaked just a little, and if something were to be changed like a fruit flies wing span that gives them an advantage, they would spread their genetic code more than the fruit flies who through mutation ended up at a disadvantage. and as this happens every generation for millions of years, what once was a fish, can become a lizard, which becomes a mammal which becomes an ape.

I believe in natural changes such as adoptation to an environment in a species but not changes such as a lizard becoming an ape. For that I don't see the evidence nor does it make sense to me.

 

[Runningman]

most of my thoughts on christians are based on media influenced by athiests, cherry picked examples, cutting out context etc. so generally i can't come to a conclusion on that alone, but if i had to say, it's not great. generally when i think of the stereotypical christian i think of someone that refuses to listen, ignores the evidence they're asking so often to see and can't comprehend the science they're trying to refute.

I think all groups have their critics. Christians certainly have them, atheists, scientists, etc. Most of what you’ll hear, like you said, is cherry picked information meant to discredit or delegitimize. Nowadays it’s mostly just information warfare. Even I am critical of the church at times, but I’m always constructive about it. I think that’s the difference.

I think people should always think critically before placing their faith in the media. Their objective is actually to persuade their listeners to form an opinion, rather than giving them information and allowing them to decide for themselves what to believe.

So I think you should try Christianity, imho. At one point I was agnostic, too, with a lean toward atheism. I looked for reasons why God doesn’t exist and sought to use that evidence to prop up what I wanted to believe. In this pursuit, I actually ended up finding God and having my own divine experiences that still continue to this day. My experiences confirm to me that the Bible is indeed true to its word. You need experiences, too.

A roadblock people often run into is they want to put God under a microscope and study Him and prove Him that way, or try to make Him perform for entertainment and curiosity. Just isn’t how it works. It can’t be understated that God is a person with thoughts, feelings, and He bows to no one. It’s possible God can let someone go their entire life, having showed them nothing of Himself, until they meet Him on His terms.

 

[Hydraxolotl]

What would be the advantage (evolutionary or otherwise) of homosexuality since no genetic codes may be 'spread' through it?

There is a bible verse that says, "faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen". I think we all believe what want to believe, what we hope to be true, and what we put our faith in those things. Do you think this to be an accurate conclusion?

there is no advantage, that's why not everyone is homosexual. this is likely caused by many parts of the genome, and they may be recessive and only show any effect when the child receives two recessive alleles, meaning it's possible for two hetero parents to to conceive a homo child and a homo parent to conceive a hetero child so long as the other parent has at least one dominant allele.

i'm sure plenty of people believe what they want to believe, but me and many others prefer to believe what we think to be true, whether we like it or not, because we're here to discover the truth, not just feel good about ourselves.

 

[Hydraxolotl]

Haven't read any other comments, these might be repeats

1. Have only ever believed in the words of God, for that matter only know the words of God. I figured when I found a mistake I would move on, so far that hasn't happened here I still am.

2. They used to be sinners like all sinners, all of us sinners in our own ways and we all had our own sins to worry about, but that was between each of us and God. The 'struggles' different from one another, but all 'demands of by the flesh' just the same. Pretty much every Christian I knew, felt the exact same way. But for some reason, they had to follow in the footsteps of Sodom and Gomorrah which made it no longer just in between them and God anymore, but forced it into OUR lives something for us to have to deal with, like our own struggles weren't enough. We had to THINK and FEEL something about theirs. But not even that was enough they had to push it further. So they brought laws into effect, not only forcing God to turn away some of His protection again, effecting all of us, but NOW we even had to start WEIGHING in on it all.

I'm sure everyone can see 'blessings' are no longer coming upon us while the cursing's are, it's just that Christians know there is a reason for it all as it was written in the Book. I am NOT SAYING so please don't make it sound as if I were that it is all because of LBGT, but none the less, it is still another stone on that pile that needs no more stones and causes some resentment there.
What Christians don't discuss or even mention is what is taking place within our souls. The truth is, like it or not, the righteous are being made sad by the constant persecution from the push to accept something we know to be an abomination to the GOD, whom we love with all our heart and soul so our souls are daily being vexed. We have become the 'Lot' of modern day.
There is no TV anymore because every show and commercial has to include the new loud proud and in your face abomination to God, put forth as the 'accepted' way of life, which it isn't and leaving a few like me, who NEVER used to judge or care or even really think upon it, really quite RESENTFUL of all things 'LGBT'. Now, being a true Christian, I still believe this is something for God to judge and me to keep my nose out of.
I am sure there was persecution that went towards those who were 'gay' before, but nothing compared to what is happening now to Christians. But the reality is, we are not of this world anyway and Judgment is coming to us all.

3. They are in denial, having it written on their hearts just like we do, and how naked and embarrassed they are soon to be.

4. Not once, even when 'what was written' wasn't what I thought was written, the fact remained

5. I don't know Harry nor pokemom.

What is your curiosity with Christians and what they believe? Do you find it strange to be drawn this direction, no matter the reason or excuse? Have you ever read any of the words of God? Do you know of any of the prophecies and their fulfilments, and if so, HOW do you explain them?

I'll sum it all up for your understanding. I want you to write the name of a person who will be born in 400 years. I would like you to tell me where they will be born, where they will travel, what their beliefs will be, and how they will die and they have to be of such significance that they will do something like change the way THE WORLD tells TIME.

Now, if you would like to get close to what is actually written and what actually happened EXACTLY AS IT WAS WRITTEN, you are going to have to add to that list around 20 more things and have ALL OF THEM come true.

the miracles jesus performed could have been anything from mass hysteria to lies to just people misremembering or mistranslating what actually happened. and prophecies, if you make a prediction and that prediction turns out false, no one will remember it and it will be forgotten, but if by pure luck it actually happens people will remember it, that's survivorship bias.

 

[Eli1]

the miracles jesus performed could have been anything from mass hysteria to lies to just people misremembering or mistranslating what actually happened. and prophecies, if you make a prediction and that prediction turns out false, no one will remember it and it will be forgotten, but if by pure luck it actually happens people will remember it, that's survivorship bias.

This is where I’d like to have a honest conversation with you about some assumptions about the world, and the meaning of words as well as living up to them.
‘But as a new member I know you’re busy taking all the questions and I’m afraid that if at some point you might be interested to have a reasonable conversation, you would be too bored or frustrated and might leave.
‘’Happens all the time.

 

[Hydraxolotl]

So I think you should try Christianity, imho. At one point I was agnostic, too, with a lean toward atheism. I looked for reasons why God doesn’t exist and sought to use that evidence to prop up what I wanted to believe. In this pursuit, I actually ended up finding God and having my own divine experiences that still continue to this day. My experiences confirm to me that the Bible is indeed true to its word. You need experiences, too.

there is no evidence against a god, because it's unfalsifiable. i can say "you can't prove god did this" and someone else can say "you can't prove god didn't do this" and it's just a stalemate, science is currently our least bad method for finding truth, but it can't be used in this case. newtons flaming laser sword states that if something isn't provable through observation and experimentation, it isn't worth debating.

A roadblock people often run into is they want to put God under a microscope and study Him and prove Him that way, or try to make Him perform for entertainment and curiosity. Just isn’t how it works. It can’t be understated that God is a person with thoughts, feelings, and He bows to no one. It’s possible God can let someone go their entire life, having showed them nothing of Himself, until they meet Him on His terms.

until we can put your god under a microscope we can't determine he exists, he's all knowing so he knows this, all powerful so he can do it, and all loving so he should want to prove himself, saving millions by converting them through proof, but he doesn't. why not? and you can argue with this by saying "god works in mysterious ways, who are you to question him." but he's ignorantly, incapable of changing that, or maliciously sending so many of his children to hell because he refuses to prove himself true to the people he knows will only follow him once he does.

 

[Magenta]

you said you don't believe in evolution? why not? it's a phenomena observed in fruit flies and bacteria. their genetic code dictates what they'll grow up into, and through mutation, which has also been observed, this genetic code can be tweaked just a little, and if something were to be changed like a fruit flies wing span that gives them an advantage, they would spread their genetic code more than the fruit flies who through mutation ended up at a disadvantage. and as this happens every generation for millions of years, what once was a fish, can become a lizard, which becomes a mammal which becomes an ape.

Richard Dawkins

 

[Hydraxolotl]

This is where I’d like to have a honest conversation with you about some assumptions about the world, and the meaning of words as well as living up to them.
‘But as a new member I know you’re busy taking all the questions and I’m afraid that if at some point you might be interested to have a reasonable conversation, you would be too bored or frustrated and might leave.
‘’Happens all the time.

sure i'd be happy to, i'll start with the meaning of words. there aren't any, not objective meanings anyway, i don't think you can say "this word means that" or "the origin of this word is this" because the meaning of words change all the time. this ideology is called descriptivism in linguistics and is apposed to prescriptivism which states that there are rules to language and breaking them means using it incorrectly. i say if most people that speak that language understand what you mean it's all fair game.

 

[Eli1]

sure i'd be happy to, i'll start with the meaning of words. there aren't any, not objective meanings anyway, i don't think you can say "this word means that" or "the origin of this word is this" because the meaning of words change all the time. this ideology is called descriptivism in linguistics and is apposed to prescriptivism which states that there are rules to language and breaking them means using it incorrectly. i say if most people that speak that language understand what you mean it's all fair game.

I was thinking of opening a new topic for atheist but ,let’s continue here for a bit.
If you apply what you said to yourself, it means that “you don’t know”. You don’t know anything about anything and this is also something that a Greek philosopher said. This is an honest position when you say ” I don’t know”.

However the practicalities of words do come up when we say that a song if beautiful. For example, if you are a materialist atheist, you should not say “this song is beautiful” or “I had an awesome time at the concert”. What you should say instead is “I had a great chemical experience in the brain“. This means that you’re consistent with your beliefs and you are living up to them.
Another practical application of words is when we talk about testimonies. If a materialistic atheist does not belive personal testimonies why should anyone acknowledge you if you say “I’m in pain “?

 

[Runningman]

there is no evidence against a god, because it's unfalsifiable. i can say "you can't prove god did this" and someone else can say "you can't prove god didn't do this" and it's just a stalemate, science is currently our least bad method for finding truth, but it can't be used in this case. newtons flaming laser sword states that if something isn't provable through observation and experimentation, it isn't worth debating.

God will prove Himself if it’s on His terms. Everything else proves it’s self when met on human terms. For example, does science prove much of anything for very long until they discover something new and rewrite their books again and again? Science is a bit like a faith in the sense that it uses its own systems and methods to prove itself, while only ever proving they can’t prove much because they continually revise their books. Science is actually one of the most flawed methods in the world. Christianity on the other hand never changes.

until we can put your god under a microscope we can't determine he exists, he's all knowing so he knows this, all powerful so he can do it, and all loving so he should want to prove himself, saving millions by converting them through proof, but he doesn't. why not? and you can argue with this by saying "god works in mysterious ways, who are you to question him." but he's ignorantly, incapable of changing that, or maliciously sending so many of his children to hell because he refuses to prove himself true to the people he knows will only follow him once he does.

Well, like I said, God doesn’t perform for people because they want Him to. Science is supposed to use their methods to prove something, but if they can’t prove something then that means they don’t know how or are incapable of doing so using flawed methods. If the methods are flawed, try a new method. God will reveal Himself on His terms.

I mean, if I wanted you to sing and dance in my lab so I can prove you’re a real person would you? How outrageous, how absurd, and offensive. Imagine if billions of people want that from you every day for thousands of years. I think, from God’s perspective, if it’s even possible to know, perhaps He feels the same way when people treat Him as such.

Reach out to God in sincerity and humility and I believe you will find Him.

As far as your assumptions about God’s intentions, those aren’t entirely accurate. There are people who sincerely believe in and know God and they don’t follow Him

What about the stories of God in the Bible? I guess you’ve written them off as myths. What if God showed people the same things today, wouldn’t people look for virtually every other reason to explain it than God? Yes, that’s exactly what happens. People who genuinely want to see God will and those who don’t really want to see God will not. God is selective like that and doesn’t entertain mockers; trust me I know from experience. Remember, I was in your shoes once.

This is how spirituality works in very basic sense.

 

[Hydraxolotl]

I was thinking of opening a new topic for atheist but ,let’s continue here for a bit.
If you apply what you said to yourself, it means that “you don’t know”. You don’t know anything about anything and this is also something that a Greek philosopher said. This is an honest position when you say ” I don’t know”.

i disagree, if you're talking about my agnosticism, that's mostly just for theism, not everything. if something can be observed and experimented on, it's safe to say it's probably real, but we can't experiment on a god because they're beyond everything that is and the people that meet him don't ever come back. we can't observe a soul and it doesn't interact with anything. these are unfalsifiable, and something that falls under that category is useless.

However the practicalities of words do come up when we say that a song if beautiful. For example, if you are a materialist atheist, you should not say “this song is beautiful” or “I had an awesome time at the concert”. What you should say instead is “I had a great chemical experience in the brain“. This means that you’re consistent with your beliefs and you are living up to them.

sure, it's more accurate to say "wow, the serotonin levels when my neurons are made aware of those vibrations in the air coming from that direction are spiking" is less useful and much more unwieldy than just saying "their music's great" that's why layman's terms exist. also exactly what beliefs aren't i living up to by not using scientific wording every time i speak. my view on theism? descriptivism? that i believe unfalsifiable claims can't be assumed true?

Another practical application of words is when we talk about testimonies. If a materialistic atheist does not belive personal testimonies why should anyone acknowledge you if you say “I’m in pain “?

we don't believe testimonies are very useful in regards to reality, personal experience is completely seperate. if you say "dude, i saw my friend just fly over that building" we might investigate what happened, usually when the claim is new, because hey maybe personal flight's just been discovered, but taking you on your word with no evidence isn't helpful, maybe you did see your friend fly, but that doesn't mean he actually flew. but using testimony to know how someone is feeling is fine. ignoring testimony in regards to what someone is experiencing is unhelpful, because what else do we have? you have nothing saying they don't experience that, but you do have testimony saying they did. testimony about getting your prayers answered or seeing god in a vision may happen, we (most of us) believe these testimonies to be true, but what they imply to not be true.

 

[Hydraxolotl]

God will prove Himself if it’s on His terms. Everything else proves it’s self when met on human terms. For example, does science prove much of anything for very long until they discover something new and rewrite their books again and again? Science is a bit like a faith in the sense that it uses its own systems and methods to prove itself, while only ever proving they can’t prove much because they continually revise their books. Science is actually one of the most flawed methods in the world. Christianity on the other hand never changes.

if scientific literature never changed, then we would still be using leeches to cure bad blood. the fact that science corrects itself instead of assuming everything to be right the first time is a good thing. great people were wrong sometimes, and if we ignore that we wouldn't be doing science.

Well, like I said, God doesn’t perform for people because they want Him to. Science is supposed to use their methods to prove something, but if they can’t prove something then that means they don’t know how or are incapable of doing so using flawed methods. If the methods are flawed, try a new method. God will reveal Himself on His terms.

the scientific method is our least flawed method of finding truth, trying something else would mean sacrificing accuracy and purposefully using a method that is more flawed than what we have now.

I mean, if I wanted you to sing and dance in my lab so I can prove you’re a real person would you? How outrageous, how absurd, and offensive. Imagine if billions of people want that from you every day for thousands of years. I think, from God’s perspective, if it’s even possible to know, perhaps He feels the same way when people treat Him as such.

Reach out to God in sincerity and humility and I believe you will find Him.

As far as your assumptions about God’s intentions, those aren’t entirely accurate. There are people who sincerely believe in and know God and they don’t follow Him

if i were asked by aliens to go to their lab so they could study me, i'd be happy to oblige, atleast the first time. we only need to prove his existence once unless it comes into question again, like if the methods we used are found to be significantly flawed and we can't replicate our findings anymore.

What about the stories of God in the Bible? I guess you’ve written them off as myths. What if God showed people the same things today, wouldn’t people look for virtually every other reason to explain it than God? Yes, that’s exactly what happens. People who genuinely want to see God will and those who don’t really want to see God will not. God is selective like that and doesn’t entertain mockers; trust me I know from experience. Remember, I was in your shoes once.

This is how spirituality works in very basic sense.

if the bible stories happened again now, we would be able to study them and confirm their legitimacy and use our findings to further research in many fields. a guy lived for 3 days in a fish and was unharmed. if that happened now, we would need to test the acidity of the fish's stomach acid, jaw strength and tooth sharpness, compare that to the safety of what the survivor was wearing, and our findings may just be that we found a large fish that can't eat properly.

 

[Snacks]

1) how did you convert to christianity or were you christian since childhood?
Someone shared the Gospel with me and my heart instantaneously rejoiced at the wonderful news. After which I studied the Scriptures and nothing comes remotely close to the dynamic teachings of Jesus Christ.

2) what is your opinion on the LGBT community?
Same as the straight community; some are good, some are idiots.

3) what is your opinion on atheists?
Some are good, some are idiots.

4) have you ever questioned your faith?
Of course. Jesus Christ says all will experience doubt at some point. Some folks more than others. However for many folks the doubt is only temporary and long ago.

5) do you believe media like harry potter or pokemon to be problematic? why or why not?
Elaborate on why it may be problematic.