Does The Book of Revelation Frighten You/

[Diakonos]

This is all about those who believe in a pre-tribulation "rapture of the church" reaching for a way to identify the Saints that are president during the tribulation.

That is the case for many others, but in my case, Scripture changes my beliefs over time.
I don't decide what I believe before I consult Scripture. I read Scripture, then deduce my position(s). Some truths are identifiable with only 1 verse, while others are comprised of many. It is called proper logical inference.

For example, we arrive at the doctrine of the Trinity through a minimum of 5 verses that say...

a. There is one God​

b. The Father is called God​

c. the Son is called God​

d. the Spirit is called God​

e. these three are distinct persons​

​

There is no single place in Scripture that states the proposition that God is one in essence and 3 in persons. One has to use proper logical inference ("connect the dots") to understand this Biblical doctrine, as well as many others.

It is not about connecting dots. To do so can be used to prove anything you wish.

I disagree. Only true propositions can be proven. If you think otherwise, then you shouldn't ask people to use Scripture to prove anything.

Why not just read the Scripture and believe what is states.

Does Scripture state that a Jewish remnant will be on the earth during the Day of the Lord? yes or no?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

It would be scary if we hadn't been forewarned. As it is The Revelation prophecies have told us what to expect.

yes and the prophets also as they foretold Jews what to expect[/QUOTE]

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I have no problem at all with the Bible being translated into Japanese, but just, please, don't translate Jesus int Mohammed.[/QUOTE

or God into “ allah

 

[Pilgrimshope]

No one ever posts in Japanese.

That is the name for God.

Me expert on all monkey languages.

why would you call it a monkey language ?

“And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech. And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city. Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭11:1, 6-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s why other human language exists ( that we can easily translate with google lol ) and now if you notice language is coming back Together for humans because of the witnessing the gospel to all nations and languages ? To this end

because we’re all Made of one blood despite the different skin and language and our purpose is to find God whether we speak Japanese or English

“and hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; that they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭17:26-27‬ ‭KJV‬

as language was seperated in the beginning now it needs to come together

“And the gospel must first be published among all nations.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

notice with the holy ghost came preaching in many earthly tongues ? So they could understand ? But before they were confounded by the many languages ?

God designed different languages to a purpose , and equips us to speak other languages of people in order to share his words with all nations and people

 

[oyster67]

Me expert on all monkey languages.

People have gotten banned for using that phrase. Please be more considerate of our international membership here at CC.

 

[RichMan]

Does Scripture state that a Jewish remnant will be on the earth during the Day of the Lord? yes or no?

Yes, but they will not believe until they see Him coming at the seventh trump.
That` remnant will be in the wilderness under God protection for 1260 days as the anti-christ makes war on the Saints.
So, they can not be the Saints that die for His Word like their brothers under the throne as revealed at the 5th seal.

 

[oyster67]

Does Scripture state that a Jewish remnant will be on the earth during the Day of the Lord? yes or no?

Do you consider the "Day of the Lord" to be the time immediately preceding the moment Jesus steps foot on Earth with His mighty army?
By "Jewish Remnant" do you mean those who have accepted the atonement, or those who still cling to their old ways?

I believe that the Tribulation is referred to as the Time of Jacob's Trouble. He shall deal with them (the Jewish people who cling to their old ways) much like He has in the past (OT in particular), except this time for rejecting Jesus' Atonement. Chastisement shall bring great repentance on their part. Many shall be persecuted unto death. I do believe many of these are the beheaded ones. This is not my field of expertise, and I cannot supply you with all the pertinent verses. Perhaps others can help with that.

 

[Inquisitor]

People have gotten banned for using that phrase. Please be more considerate of our international membership here at CC.

Science teaches that we are descended from some ape in the distant past.

Obviously, you do not conform to the scientific consensus.

Do you believe that the world is 6,000 years old?

Do you believe the flood was worldwide or more localized?

Just trying to understand the interpretation of the scripture that is applied on this site.

 

[oyster67]

Do you believe that the world is 6,000 years old?

Yes. Created in 6 "evening and morning" cycles.

Do you believe the flood was worldwide or more localized?

Genesis 7:19

“And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.”

.

 

[Diakonos]

Yes, but they will not believe until they see Him coming at the seventh trump.

Glad we agree.
How did you come to the conclusion that the remnant will not believe until they see Him?

““I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him" (Zechariah 12:10)​

Have you not read that their fleeing into the wilderness is the result of them obeying Jesus' command to flee when they see the abomination of desolation (AOD) (Matt 24:15)? They would have to believe in Jesus in order to obey His commandments.

Also, the Jews are not the only people group who will mourn over Him when they see Him coming.
“Behold He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him” (Revelation 1:7)

"Every eye...even those who pierced Him". This global mourning is not exclusive to the Jews. Everyone on earth will believe when they see Him coming. But some will already believe even before he comes.

That` remnant will be in the wilderness under God protection for 1260 days as the anti-christ makes war on the Saints.

To be clear
- you're referring to the 2nd half of the 7-year period prophesied by Daniel (Dan 9:27), called "the time of Jacob's distress" (Jer 30:7)?
- you affirm the existence of the remnant, and you see them as a separate and simultaneous entity from the saints during this period?

So, they can not be the Saints that die for His Word like their brothers under the throne as revealed at the 5th seal.

Yes, I would agree (Isa 10:20, Jer 31:1-2). The remnant is the Jews who escape the persecution that follows the AOD by fleeing to the mountains of Judea, which happens at the mid-point of the 7-year period.

 

[Inquisitor]

Yes. Created in 6 "evening and morning" cycles.



Genesis 7:19

“And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.”

.

Do you believe that the tree in the middle of the garden of Eden, was a real tree with real fruit?

Do you hold to a strict literal translation of the Old Testament?

If so, how do you interpret the following law.

Deuteronomy 25:4
You shall not muzzle the ox while it is threshing.

 

[Diakonos]

Do you consider the "Day of the Lord" to be the time immediately preceding the moment Jesus steps foot on Earth with His mighty army?
By "Jewish Remnant" do you mean those who have accepted the atonement, or those who still cling to their old ways?

I believe that the Tribulation is referred to as the Time of Jacob's Trouble. He shall deal with them (the Jewish people who cling to their old ways) much like He has in the past (OT in particular), except this time for rejecting Jesus' Atonement. Chastisement shall bring great repentance on their part. Many shall be persecuted unto death. I do believe many of these are the beheaded ones. This is not my field of expertise, and I cannot supply you with all the pertinent verses. Perhaps others can help with that.

By studying how the prophets use the phrase "in that day", you'll discover that The Day of the Lord technically spans from the beginning of the Tribulation to the end of the Millenium. However, most of the time, the phrase usually refers merely to the wrath of God during the Tribulation

 

[Inquisitor]

Glad we agree.
How did you come to the conclusion that the remnant will not believe until they see Him?

““I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him" (Zechariah 12:10)​

Have you not read that their fleeing into the wilderness is the result of them obeying Jesus' command to flee when they see the abomination of desolation (AOD) (Matt 24:15)? They would have to believe in Jesus in order to obey His commandments.

Also, the Jews are not the only people group who will mourn over Him when they see Him coming.
“Behold He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him” (Revelation 1:7)

"Every eye...even those who pierced Him". This global mourning is not exclusive to the Jews. Everyone on earth will believe when they see Him coming. But some will already believe even before he comes.


To be clear
- you're referring to the 2nd half of the 7-year period prophesied by Daniel (Dan 9:27), called "the time of Jacob's distress" (Jer 30:7)?
- you affirm the existence of the remnant, and you see them as a separate and simultaneous entity from the saints during this period?


Yes, I would agree (Isa 10:20, Jer 31:1-2). The remnant is the Jews who escape the persecution that follows the AOD by fleeing to the mountains of Judea, which happens at the mid-point of the 7-year period.

When Jesus was talking about the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem (AoD).

Luke 21:20
But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation (AoD) is near. Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are inside the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city.

The temple was destroyed and stood desolate.

It is undeniable that the destruction of the temple was predicted by Jesus.

The real question then becomes; is there a second fulfillment of the prophecy that Jesus gave?

A double prophecy with a future fulfillment?

 

[Diakonos]

When Jesus was talking about the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem (AoD).

Luke 21:20
But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation (AoD) is near. Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are inside the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city.

The temple was destroyed and stood desolate.

It is undeniable that the destruction of the temple was predicted by Jesus.

The real question then becomes; is there a second fulfillment of the prophecy that Jesus gave?

A double prophecy with a future fulfillment?

The abomination of desolation (AOD) (As described by Daniel, Jesus, Paul, and John) is an event during the tribulation. The destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D was, what I would call, a partial fulfillment. I say this because there are prophetic details about the AOD that we’re not fulfilled in 70 A.D. although some of these details did occur… meaning it was a foreshadowing of the true fulfillment, which is yet to occur.

Good insight in your part!

 

[oyster67]

Do you believe that the tree in the middle of the garden of Eden, was a real tree with real fruit?

Yes, The temptations were real then just as they are now.

Do you hold to a strict literal translation of the Old Testament?

When the context calls for it. It is usually obvious, like in your example below.

If so, how do you interpret the following law.

Deuteronomy 25:4
You shall not muzzle the ox while it is threshing.

It is a literal example that teaches a broader lesson. Workers should receive wages. Rather intuitive deduction, I should think.

Do you agree?

 

[oyster67]

By studying how the prophets use the phrase "in that day", you'll discover that The Day of the Lord technically spans from the beginning of the Tribulation to the end of the Millenium. However, most of the time, the phrase usually refers merely to the wrath of God during the Tribulation

View attachment 242686

Yes! From 1 Thessalonians 5. Thank you.

There is another mention of the Day of the Lord at another future event also...

2 Peter 3:10

“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.”

I like the way you stated it:

The Day of the Lord technically spans from the beginning of the Tribulation to the end of the Millenium.

 

[Diakonos]

Yes! From 1 Thessalonians 5. Thank you.

There is another mention of the Day of the Lord at another future event also...

2 Peter 3:10

“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.”

I like the way you stated it:

Amen.

The "heavens passing away" is the transition from the Millenium to the Great White Throne Judgment (Job 14:12, Matt 24:35, Rev 20:11, 21:1), which is the ultimate cleaning and quarantining of all evil before God makes the new heaven and earth so that it will not be tainted as the current one was (Ezek 44:9, Rev 22:15, 21:27)

 

[Inquisitor]

Yes, The temptations were real then just as they are now.

I asked whether you believe the tree in the garden was a literal tree.

You replied, that the temptations were real temptations?

That is not answering the question I asked.

A literal tree or not?

When the context calls for it. It is usually obvious, like in your example below.

Eve was created from the side of Adam, the body of Adam. The church was also formed from the crucified body of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The context of all the scripture is always Jesus Christ and the church.

What context are you talking about?

Did the true light shine in the darkness or not?

It is a literal example that teaches a broader lesson. Workers should receive wages. Rather intuitive deduction, I should think.

Of course, I disagree strongly.

The law was instituted to provide the Jews with the knowledge of their sinfulness. Their alienation from everything that was just, good, and holy. The law was there for Jesus to fulfill, the law was not given for you to fulfill.

Intuitive deduction?

The scripture must be read and understood purely as an allegory, the scripture is the revelation of the Christ.

 

[oyster67]

That is not answering the question I asked.

Is.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The scripture must be read and understood purely as an allegory, the scripture is the revelation of the Christ.

While the Scriptures are a revelation of Christ, they must not be understood purely as allegorical. That would defeat the purpose of the Bible. This does not mean that there are no further depths of meaning. The OT is full of types and shadows of Christ and His finished work of redemption. The Bible is both a historical and spiritual record. Were the trees in the garden literal trees? Absolutely.