And the SMOKE of their torment...No eternal damnation for anyone, except the Devil

[Runningman]

Zero precedent and zero verses. Your biggest problem is proving that God has to give immortality to the souls of believers, when the Bible is SILENT on that subject.

In ALL the verses about the resurrection of believers, only the body is said to be "raised imperishable", which means immortal. That would clearly imply that the soul of the believer is immortal. And since there is nothing about a believer's soul BECOMING immortal, that shows that is immortal from the start.


Sure there is. In Rev 19 the beast and FP are cast into the LOF. In Rev 20:10 they are STILL STILL STILL there, 1,000 years after being thrown into the LOF. That's plenty of precedence. And the Bible says nothing those 2 getting a DIFFERENT sentence than the rest of unbelievers in the human race.

So you are the very confused one.


Every soul. The precendent on living forever is focused on the body of believers. Not true for unbelievers, who will DIE AGAIN when cast into the LOF.

Zero he says. Obviously you haven’t been paying attention to the word. You have an anti-conditional immortality bias. Bottom line is your eternal torment for all unsaved doctrine just isn’t in the Bible.

I think you should move past trying to prove a negative and focus on what the word confirms because you’re going around in circles. Every time we complete a circuit you prove nothing and then say everyone who disagrees is wrong. Look, you aren’t going to sneak any false doctrines past this bunch here.

 

[Mem]

It's hardly presumption when it's a biblical concept. Posts 847 & 926. I posted scriputre verses which prove that.
Conversely, a philosophy of materialism is un-biblical.

I have to wonder what the pastor of your church teaches. It is striking that everyone who has been arguing that annihilation
is the fate of the wicked doesn't simply hold that view. You also deny the existence of man's inner being. Annhilationism
has been exposed here. Only the enemy would want to decieve mankind into thinking he is a lesser being than our creator
made us to be.

You don't have to "suppose". The Bible is very clear about what receives immortality. Haven't you ever read 1 Cor 15?? Or 1 Peter 3:9? They only speak of the body becoming immortal and imperishable.


What I know is that the LOF will be prepared for him and his fallen angels. Regarding the creation of angels, we know very little. God has not revealed details of their creation. But I do know the LOF is designed for eternity, so it should be obvious that all fallen angels will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Why does that bother you, as it seems it does?


That means "defeat" and Jesus Christ defeated Him at the cross already.


no. Your childish snippets aren't helping you. Satan was the highest ranked angel before his rebellion. And here you are, acting smart-alecky and trying to diminish him. The Bible doesn't. You shouldn't.

The Bible says he will be punished day and night for ever and ever. That would of course include all his fallen angels, because of Matt 25:41.

Ok, Nevermind. I realize now what is impeding your understanding, and I should've come to terms with it sooner.

 

[Jackson123]

Zero he says. Obviously you haven’t been paying attention to the word. You have an anti-conditional immortality bias. Bottom line is your eternal torment for all unsaved doctrine just isn’t in the Bible.

I think you should move past trying to prove a negative and focus on what the word confirms because you’re going around in circles. Every time we complete a circuit you prove nothing and then say everyone who disagrees is wrong. Look, you aren’t going to sneak any false doctrines past this bunch here.

In Matt 25 Jesus say, all nation/human separate only 2 major group, not 3 or 4
sheep, go to heaven

goat to eternal punishment

non escape from 2 destination

 

[Runningman]

In Matt 25 Jesus say, all nation/human separate only 2 major group, not 3 or 4
sheep, go to heaven

goat to eternal punishment

non escape from 2 destination

I know. Where we disagree is what the eternal punishment is specifically. If the said in even one single place that the eternal punishment is torment then probably no one would even question it. This is also an interpretation issue as well, you probably believe death isn’t literally death, destroy isn’t literally destroy, perish isn’t literally perish, and killing body and soul in hell isn’t the only alternative to eternal life. I guess you just aren’t ready to receive what the word literally says on this yet.

 

[kleronomos]

It's hardly presumption when it's a biblical concept. Posts 847 & 926. I posted scriputre verses which prove that.
Conversely, a philosophy of materialism is un-biblical.

I have to wonder what the pastor of your church teaches. It is striking that everyone who has been arguing that annihilation
is the fate of the wicked doesn't simply hold that view. You also deny the existence of man's inner being. Annhilationism
has been exposed here. Only the enemy would want to decieve mankind into thinking he is a lesser being than our creator
made us to be.

Did you ever consider that the adversary is USING this as a tool AGAINST you knowing it goes against all God tells us He is
There is NO good purpose in eternal torment. There is nothing to be gained. There isn't even a good OUTCOME to look forward to. There are no lesson to be taught nor learned from it. It just makes God look evil and vindictive. How can things to wonderful be coming to us, if the lake of fire will have any part in it? Do you NEED a reminder of how EVIL humans can be? Does the KNOWLEDGE and REMEMBRANCE of EVIL for ever and ever make the lives of those who never were, who were hurt by it 'better' somehow?

But worst of all, it stands NO CHANCE, on any level, of ever producing either MERCY OR LOVE. Not now and not then.


ABSOULTELY there is no DENIAL in mans 'inner' being, as torture of ANY LIVING THING for all of eternity, no matter the shape or form is nothing but cruel, HENCE the discussion. DEATH is the KINDEST thing to do for those who don't make it. And for those who do.


Hosea 6:5 Therefore have I hewed them by the prophets; I have slain them by the words of my mouth:
and thy judgments are as the light that goeth forth.

Hosea 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

Hosea 6:7 But they like men have transgressed the covenant there have they dealt treacherously against me.


Do you think those exact words are some sort of accident? God desires mercy, NOT SACRIFICE. Not burnt offerings. Is that what YOU are teaching? Is that the GOD you are putting forth to the EWEs?



Eternal torment is WITHOUT REASON except to be cruel.


Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

Matthew 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

Matthew 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Matthew 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?


I PRAY you will pray on this, ESPECIALLY BEFORE YOU CONTINUE ON TEACHING IT. THIS is the most severe type of judgment, come JUDGMENT. I know all our sins are forgiven and therefore we DON'T pay the penalty of death, but that doesn't stop the everything said and done in this body from being brought forth. Vessels of Gold unto honor vessels of wood unto dishonor...We will be graded.

 

[Jackson123]

I know. Where we disagree is what the eternal punishment is specifically. If the said in even one single place that the eternal punishment is torment then probably no one would even question it. This is also an interpretation issue as well, you probably believe death isn’t literally death, destroy isn’t literally destroy, perish isn’t literally perish, and killing body and soul in hell isn’t the only alternative to eternal life. I guess you just aren’t ready to receive what the word literally says on this yet.

Punishment define as

quote

the infliction or imposition of a penalty as retribution for an offense.
"crime demands just punishment"

end quote
infliction defined as

quote
the action of inflicting something unpleasant or painful on someone or something.
"the repeated infliction of pain"
End Quote

unpleasant or painful

impossible apply to non existing being

only 2 alternative happen to all nation in Matt 25

heaven or eternal punishment

it may different level of punishment, because the word punishment according to what they did.

but it is eternal

 

[kleronomos]

impossible apply to non existing being

Before the infliction of the punishment EXISTING BEING,

AFTER the infliction of the punishment DEATH,

BEING CEASE EXISTING.

Man goes and kill a man.

Man found guilty.

Punishment is death.

Punishment inflicted.

Man no more.


CARRY that on to the SPIRITUAL WORLD where


man sins

man found guilty of sin

punishment is death

duration is forever

infliction is in lake of fire

man ceases to exist.

 

[Jackson123]

Before the infliction of the punishment EXISTING BEING,

AFTER the infliction of the punishment DEATH,

BEING CEASE EXISTING.

Man goes and kill a man.

Man found guilty.

Punishment is death.

Punishment inflicted.

Man no more.


CARRY that on to the SPIRITUAL WORLD where


man sins

man found guilty of sin

punishment is death

duration is forever

infliction is in lake of fire

man ceases to exist.

You forget the word eternal before the word punishment

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Zero precedent and zero verses. Your biggest problem is proving that God has to give immortality to the souls of believers, when the Bible is SILENT on that subject.

Zero he says.

Because it is the truth.

Obviously you haven’t been paying attention to the word.

I study the Word the SAME WAY the Bereans did with Paul's preaching.

Acts 17:11 - Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

I put the name of whoever makes claims about the Bible and then examine the Scriptures "to see if what they said is true".

And what you claim isn't true and the Bible doesn't say what you keep claiming.

You have an anti-conditional immortality bias.

I have no bias whatsoever, as I've already pointed out. But you take it on yourself to re-interpret and twist what I say to fit your agenda.

Please knock it off. It isn't the Christian thing to do. If there were clear verses that God WILL destroy souls, I would easily believe it. But there are no such verses. Examining the Scriptures reveals that it is ONLY the body of believers that will be resurrected in immortality, with no mentions of souls at any time.

And the FACT that by the time Satan gets thrown into the LOF, 2 humans will have already been there for 1,000 years, obviously minus body, which will have died the SECOND TIME.

Since 2 humans are SHOWN to be IN the LOF for 1,000 years, suffering night and day, there is no reason to PRESUME that the rest of the unbelievers won't face the same end.

You will admit to only 2 humans who will be tormented for ever and ever. But you have NO evidence that Rev 20:11-15 means that the souls of all those unbelievers will cease to exist.

You are living in a fantasy world. And, the bias is all yours. You believe that ECT is CRUEL. That is your bias, and drives the way you HAVE TO read Scripture.

You know that being CRUEL cannot describe anything that God does, so you have to re-interpret certain verses to FIT YOUR BIAS.

Without a doubt.



Bottom line is your eternal torment for all unsaved doctrine just isn’t in the Bible.

I think you should move past trying to prove a negative and focus on what the word confirms because you’re going around in circles. Every time we complete a circuit you prove nothing and then say everyone who disagrees is wrong. Look, you aren’t going to sneak any false doctrines past this bunch here.[/QUOTE]

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
You don't have to "suppose". The Bible is very clear about what receives immortality. Haven't you ever read 1 Cor 15?? Or 1 Peter 3:9? They only speak of the body becoming immortal and imperishable.

What I know is that the LOF will be prepared for him and his fallen angels. Regarding the creation of angels, we know very little. God has not revealed details of their creation. But I do know the LOF is designed for eternity, so it should be obvious that all fallen angels will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Why does that bother you, as it seems it does?

That means "defeat" and Jesus Christ defeated Him at the cross already.

no. Your childish snippets aren't helping you. Satan was the highest ranked angel before his rebellion. And here you are, acting smart-alecky and trying to diminish him. The Bible doesn't. You shouldn't.

The Bible says he will be punished day and night for ever and ever. That would of course include all his fallen angels, because of Matt 25:41.

Ok, Nevermind. I realize now what is impeding your understanding, and I should've come to terms with it sooner.

OK, please take my points one at a time an REFUTE them with Scripture, if you can.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I know. Where we disagree is what the eternal punishment is specifically. If the said in even one single place that the eternal punishment is torment then probably no one would even question it.

Are you kidding!!?? Of course you and klero question the evidence!!

In Matt 25:41 Jesus said that the LOF was prepared for the devil and his angels. Very clear.

Then, in v.46 Jesus said that unbelievers would go to eternal punishment.

In Rev 20:10 John wrote that Satan would be thrown into the LOF after the Millennial kingdom and be TORMENTED "day and night, for ever and ever".

The dots are clear so connecting them should be as well. Matt 25:41 is fulfilled in Rev 20:10. Which is eternal torment. Matt 25:46 says unbelievers will have eternal punishment. We KNOW that 2 humans will STILL BE in the LOF for 1,000 years when Satan gets thrown in.

So there is evidence of 2 humans suffering torment, and Rev 20:11-15 immediately follows, where ALL the unbelievers will be cast into the LOF.

That is evidence and PROOF that there will be ECT.

This is also an interpretation issue as well, you probably believe death isn’t literally death, destroy isn’t literally destroy, perish isn’t literally perish

This is all just rubbish, a red herring. Of course it is all literal, and refers to the resurrected body of the unbeliever. Obviously.

]and killing body and soul in hell isn’t the only alternative to eternal life.

Why do you keep erring by mentioning hell? The LOF isn't hell. The issue is in the LOF, where all unbelievers will be cast, just like the beast and FP in Rev 19.

And there is only 1 alternative to eternal life, which is life with God. It's an eternal torment apart from God.
I guess you just aren’t ready to receive what the word literally says on this yet.[/QUOTE]

 

[FreeGrace2]

Did you ever consider that the adversary is USING this as a tool AGAINST you knowing it goes against all God tells us He is
There is NO good purpose in eternal torment.

Why in the world would you question God and His plan? Or criticize it?

There is nothing to be gained. There isn't even a good OUTCOME to look forward to.

These statements are pure rubbish. As if you know what God's plan and purpose are.

There are no lesson to be taught nor learned from it. It just makes God look evil and vindictive.

Well, there's all that maudlin sentimentality again. This is the BIAS that drives your unbiblical views. You just CAN'T STAND what God's plan is, so you twist everything you can to try to prove that it isn't His plan. All just to satisfy your own bias.

How can things to wonderful be coming to us, if the lake of fire will have any part in it?

Well, it doesn't. Why would you think it does? I mean, quote any verse that shows that the LOF has "any part in it".

Do you NEED a reminder of how EVIL humans can be?

Exactly! That's the purpose in eternal torment.

And none of them have any excuse. So basically, they have put themselves in the LOF. God is just carrying out His plan, which the unbelievers weren't interested in knowing or believing. They will have no excuse. They will do it to themselves.

Does the KNOWLEDGE and REMEMBRANCE of EVIL for ever and ever make the lives of those who never were, who were hurt by it 'better' somehow?

What makes you think that any believer will have the knowledge and remembrance of evil in the NE?

But worst of all, it stands NO CHANCE, on any level, of ever producing either MERCY OR LOVE

. Not now and not then.

All mercy and love will be directly to those WITH eternal life. Punishment and torment isn't designed to "produce mercy or love".

Do you understand what words mean?

Eternal torment is WITHOUT REASON except to be cruel.

Your BIAS is maudlin sentimentality.

 

[FreeGrace2]

AFTER the infliction of the punishment DEATH,
BEING CEASE EXISTING.

Ridiculous! Prove that death means "ceasing to exist". When a human being dies, their body remains. The dead body REMAINS. Got that? Apparently not.

There are no verses that say or teach that death means ceasing to exist. And you can't prove it.

Man goes and kill a man.

Man found guilty.

Punishment is death.

Punishment inflicted.

Man no more.

Hold on here. What the man that was killed? Does his body no longer exist? Did his soul cease to exist? No. Depending on whether he had ever believed in Christ, his soul went either to heaven or Hades. The body goes into the ground, to slowly deteriorate.

 

[Runningman]

Are you kidding!!?? Of course you and klero question the evidence!!

In Matt 25:41 Jesus said that the LOF was prepared for the devil and his angels. Very clear.

Then, in v.46 Jesus said that unbelievers would go to eternal punishment.

In Rev 20:10 John wrote that Satan would be thrown into the LOF after the Millennial kingdom and be TORMENTED "day and night, for ever and ever".

The dots are clear so connecting them should be as well. Matt 25:41 is fulfilled in Rev 20:10. Which is eternal torment. Matt 25:46 says unbelievers will have eternal punishment. We KNOW that 2 humans will STILL BE in the LOF for 1,000 years when Satan gets thrown in.

So there is evidence of 2 humans suffering torment, and Rev 20:11-15 immediately follows, where ALL the unbelievers will be cast into the LOF.

That is evidence and PROOF that there will be ECT.


This is all just rubbish, a red herring. Of course it is all literal, and refers to the resurrected body of the unbeliever. Obviously.


Why do you keep erring by mentioning hell? The LOF isn't hell. The issue is in the LOF, where all unbelievers will be cast, just like the beast and FP in Rev 19.

And there is only 1 alternative to eternal life, which is life with God. It's an eternal torment apart from God.
I guess you just aren’t ready to receive what the word literally says on this yet.

A bunch of capitalized words and exclamation marks. Making words bigger and louder doesn’t help people. What helps is Biblical proof and you have nothing.

This is what helps:

James 4:12
"God alone, who gave the law, is the Judge. He alone has the power to save or to destroy."

Hebrews 10:39
"But we are not like those who turn away from God to their own destruction..."

Philippians 3:18-19
"For I have told you often before, and I say it again with tears in my eyes, that there are many whose conduct shows they are really enemies of the cross of Christ.
19 They are headed for destruction."

Psalm 92:7
"Though the wicked sprout like weeds and evildoers flourish they will be destroyed forever."

Psalm 37:20
"But the wicked will die... they will disappear like smoke."

Psalm 1:6:
"... For the Lord watches over the path of the godly, but the path of the wicked leads to destruction."

Hebrews 10:26-27
"There is only the terrible expectation of God's judgment and the raging fire that will consume his enemies."

2 Peter 3:7
"...for the day of judgment, when ungodly people will be destroyed."

Romans 2:7
"He will give eternal life to those who keep on doing good, seeking after the glory and honor and immortality that God offers."

Genesis 3:19
"For you were made from dust, and to dust you will return."

Psalm 146:4
"When they breathe their last, they return to the earth, and all their plans die with them."

Ecclesiastes 9:5
"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten."

Ezekiel 18:20
The soul who sins is the one who will die.

2 Chronicles 28:3
"He burned incense in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, and burned his children in the fire, according to the abominations of the nations whom the Lord had cast out before the children of Israel." (the Valley of Ben Hinnom is where the concept of Gehenna or Hell comes from)

Jeremiah 19:5
"They have built pagan shrines to Baal, and there they burn their sons as sacrifices to Baal. I have never commanded such a horrible deed; it never even crossed My mind to command such a thing!"

Malachi 4:1, 4:3 "The day of judgment is coming, burning like a furnace. On that day the arrogant and the wicked will be burned up like straw. They will be consumed—roots, branches, and all... On the day when I act, you will tread upon the wicked as if they were dust under your feet," says the Lord of Heaven's Armies."

Matthew 10:28
"And fear not them which kill the body but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life."

John 6:51
"I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Anyone who eats this bread will live forever" (the offer to live forever only makes sense if it were possible to not live forever.)

2 Thessalonians 1:9
"They will be punished with eternal destruction,forever separated from the Lord and from his glorious power."

Romans 6:23
"For the wages of sin is death."

2 Peter 2:6
"and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, having made them an example unto those that should live ungodly"

Revelation 20:14-15
"And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the lake of fire. And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire."

 

[FreeGrace2]

A bunch of capitalized words and exclamation marks. Making words bigger and louder doesn’t help people. What helps is Biblical proof and you have nothing.

I have biblical proof and you have nothing. What verse tells us that God WILL destroy souls? None.
What verse tells us that God gives immortality only to believers?
What verse tells us that souls will cease to exist?
What universe exists where death means cease to exist?

This is what helps:

James 4:12
"God alone, who gave the law, is the Judge. He alone has the power to save or to destroy."

Hebrews 10:39
"But we are not like those who turn away from God to their own destruction..."

Philippians 3:18-19
"For I have told you often before, and I say it again with tears in my eyes, that there are many whose conduct shows they are really enemies of the cross of Christ.
19 They are headed for destruction."

Psalm 92:7
"Though the wicked sprout like weeds and evildoers flourish they will be destroyed forever."

Psalm 37:20
"But the wicked will die... they will disappear like smoke."

Psalm 1:6:
"... For the Lord watches over the path of the godly, but the path of the wicked leads to destruction."

Hebrews 10:26-27
"There is only the terrible expectation of God's judgment and the raging fire that will consume his enemies."

2 Peter 3:7
"...for the day of judgment, when ungodly people will be destroyed."

Romans 2:7
"He will give eternal life to those who keep on doing good, seeking after the glory and honor and immortality that God offers."

Genesis 3:19
"For you were made from dust, and to dust you will return."

Psalm 146:4
"When they breathe their last, they return to the earth, and all their plans die with them."

Ecclesiastes 9:5
"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten."

Ezekiel 18:20
The soul who sins is the one who will die.

2 Chronicles 28:3
"He burned incense in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, and burned his children in the fire, according to the abominations of the nations whom the Lord had cast out before the children of Israel." (the Valley of Ben Hinnom is where the concept of Gehenna or Hell comes from)

Jeremiah 19:5
"They have built pagan shrines to Baal, and there they burn their sons as sacrifices to Baal. I have never commanded such a horrible deed; it never even crossed My mind to command such a thing!"

Malachi 4:1, 4:3 "The day of judgment is coming, burning like a furnace. On that day the arrogant and the wicked will be burned up like straw. They will be consumed—roots, branches, and all... On the day when I act, you will tread upon the wicked as if they were dust under your feet," says the Lord of Heaven's Armies."

Matthew 10:28
"And fear not them which kill the body but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life."

John 6:51
"I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Anyone who eats this bread will live forever" (the offer to live forever only makes sense if it were possible to not live forever.)

2 Thessalonians 1:9
"They will be punished with eternal destruction,forever separated from the Lord and from his glorious power."

Romans 6:23
"For the wages of sin is death."

2 Peter 2:6
"and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, having made them an example unto those that should live ungodly"

Revelation 20:14-15
"And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the lake of fire. And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire."

You keep revealing your failure to understand verses. They all refer to physical bodies.

The bodies of unbelievers will be resurrected to appear at the GWT judgment, and then be cast into the LOF. Their bodies will be destroyed and cease to exist.

You have NO verses that SAY that souls will cease to exist in the LOF.
You have NO verses that SAY that the souls of believers will be given immortality.

You have nothing.

 

[Runningman]

I have biblical proof and you have nothing. What verse tells us that God WILL destroy souls? None.
What verse tells us that God gives immortality only to believers?
What verse tells us that souls will cease to exist?
What universe exists where death means cease to exist?


You keep revealing your failure to understand verses. They all refer to physical bodies.

The bodies of unbelievers will be resurrected to appear at the GWT judgment, and then be cast into the LOF. Their bodies will be destroyed and cease to exist.

You have NO verses that SAY that souls will cease to exist in the LOF.
You have NO verses that SAY that the souls of believers will be given immortality.

You have nothing.

No. The resurrection consists of the body, soul, and spirit. That’s clear from the Bible. Do you disagree? I don’t need any more useless nonsense from you. Just quote a single verse, if you’re able to, and prove it.

 

[kleronomos]

You forget the word eternal before the word punishment

Besides the WORD "eternal', when you read the Bible Precept on precept verse by verse...learning from the schoolmaster, going through time with the Lord God Almighty, as He choose the family though which He would come in the flesh and as He led and guided them, giving us His ways and laws, making sure it was all written down so we would have the examples of what to do and what not to do, and how we would promise to love, honor and obey Him, then time after time go off after other gods, where He would let us to our own devices but then either through His wrath or the world beating us down, would let us return to Him in which HE WOULD ALWAYS show us mercy and forgive us, even when He wanted to be our King but we wanted and earthy one, so He came in the flesh and we rejected HIM YET AGAIN, by killing Him, yet EVEN in that rejection He used His own death to invited the whole world into His salvation THROUGH HIS GRACE AND MERCY,

did you start seeing Him as a GOD who was ABLE to TORTURE without end, for no reason, no HIS OWN SONS, , because they WERE DECEIVED or didn't come to belief?

Did you, when you saw the word 'eternal punishment' immediately go from all you had learned and all you had experienced in His love and compassion and mercy and protection

and think YEAH, THAT SOUNDS ABOUT RIGHT. He does seem like HE would just love to watch His sons being tortured day in and day out FOREVER AND EVER

and then even when you had those who said HEY, wait, wait, that isn't the way it was meant, it was meant as to letting us know that once our body and soul went into the lake of fire, that would be the end of us forever?

Did it ever cross your HEART AND SOUL that the smoke of their torment HURT HIM? That BECAUSE of His nature, that nature being Just and Right and Holy and Loving and Compassionate along with the promises HE SWORE TO by Himself, that it was HARD ENOUGH JUST to sentence them to death? Did you ever think, GOD wouldn't want it, NOT JUST because all the evil they did was for such a short duration and to be punished for that forever WAS NOT JUST, WAS NOT FAIR, WAS NOT RIGHT, WAS NOT FULL OF COMPASSION,

Especially because ALL THE EVIL they did, HE MORE THAN RECOMPENSED.

You have souls who NEVER WERE SAVED being punished for all eternity. What about all those who lived while 'the law' was only for ISRAEL? Because they were not of that family they are to be tortured for all eternity?

Those who loved God but not enough to NOT BE DECEIVED and so NOT UNTIL CHRIST RETURNS do they EVEN know they were
deceived THEY suffer FOR ALL ETERNITY?

Those who 'loved the ways of the world' over reading the BIBLE and coming to faith NEED TO BE TORTURED FOR ALL ETERNITY?


surely you must see the INJUSTICE IN THAT.

ISN'T DEATH ENOUGH?

LIFE IS THE REWARD

DEATH IS THE PUNISHMENT

ETERNITY IS THE DURATION



You get drunk and kill someone and are SENTENCED to 10 years in jail.

What is your punishment? The 10 years in jail.

10 years later you get out of jail.

DO THEY turn around and put you back in jail for another 10 years

OR HAVE YOU ALREADY BEEN PUNISHED FOR THAT CRIME?

ONCE YOU GET OUT OF JAIL WILL YOU HAVE FOREVER BEEN PUNISHED?

If your sentence was death, and then they killed you, would you have received your punishment?

TO BE SURE you understand that I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING

You are saying that souls go into the lake of fire and they remain AWARE of their torment for all eternity.


I completely disagree. YOU posting it again will not make me change my mind and you will not BULLY me into it by posting it again. Please drop it. It has been posted more than anything else. EVERYONE has considered your point.

I am not forgetting the word eternal, I am not forgetting the word punishment, I understand their definitions, I understand your position. I understand why you have that position.

AGAIN, Please don't post it here. If you wish to speak on it some more, PLEASE, start your own thread. Thank you

 

[kleronomos]

Well said

Bottom line is your eternal torment for all unsaved doctrine just isn’t in the Bible.

FINALLY.

Just need to be careful that it isn't snatched back away. Go back over the thread if you ever feel yourself wavering.

The Lord works in mysterious ways. He surely does.

 

[kleronomos]

And with that, I am going to move on. I am sure we all agree that we have covered everything, and more than once.


GOOD LUCK TO ALL. Thank you all for bringing GODS TRUTH TO LIGHT.

 

[Runningman]

And with that, I am going to move on. I am sure we all agree that we have covered everything, and more than once.


GOOD LUCK TO ALL. Thank you all for bringing GODS TRUTH TO LIGHT.

Good thorough thread. I think we found some new proofs along the way that aren’t very commonly seen, if at all, on the Internet if this topic is searched for. Glory to God.