For the record, I believe it has to do with (finally) bringing heaven, the spiritual, in agreement with earth, the natural. But I haven't fleshed out that thought entirely just yet.
And the SMOKE of their torment...No eternal damnation for anyone, except the Devil
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For the record, I believe it has to do with (finally) bringing heaven, the spiritual, in agreement with earth, the natural. But I haven't fleshed out that thought entirely just yet.
Romans 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God
Romans 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Romans 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
GODS JUDGMENT FOR SIN IS DEATH. DEATH IS FOR EVER.
GODS JUDGMENT FOR THOSE WHO SEEK HIM IS LIFE. ETERNAL LIFE. IMMORTALITY
Romans 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Romans 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
GODS JUDGMENT FOR SIN IS DEATH. DEATH IS FOR EVER.
GODS JUDGMENT FOR THOSE WHO SEEK HIM IS LIFE. ETERNAL LIFE. IMMORTALITY
He alone is immortal and dwells in unapproachable light. No one has ever seen Him, nor can anyone see Him.
To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen. 1 Timothy 6:16 should settle the matter, but of course, it does not
It is unbelievable how many Christians deny the truth of 1 Timothy 6:16
Which just brings about sorrow. Where does one find the truth when even something so simple as life and death is made so confusing? I just think the 'mystery of iniquity' has been working a lot harder than good Christians have. NOT in works but in TEACHING what is written vs Hath God said. I am surprised at how much of Gods word is taught as Hath God said aka conclusions on what is written vs what is actually written. How many churches teach by way of Isaiah 28:9-12? No, they all teach by way of 13.
But how many times is it really because
1 Corinthians 2:1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
1 Corinthians 2:3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
1 Corinthians 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
1 Corinthians 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
1 Corinthians 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
1 Corinthians 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
1 Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1 Corinthians 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1 Corinthians 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1 Corinthians 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1 Corinthians 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Spirit teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
or
Luke 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
Luke 12:52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
Luke 12:53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Luke 12:54 And he said also to the people, When ye see a cloud rise out of the west, straightway ye say, There cometh a shower; and so it is.
Luke 12:55 And when ye see the south wind blow, ye say, There will be heat; and it cometh to pass.
Luke 12:56 Ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time?
It isn't in our IMAGINATION that we land on one side or the other in these conversations.
We EITHER believe WHAT IS WRITTEN or we believe "HATH GOD SAID?"
Does GOD write in a language that can not be understood as it is written or not? Does life mean life and death mean death or doesn't it? If someone brings in the subtilty that was used to deceive Eve, then death ceases to mean death, as I see it anyhow.
I am just going to keep posting little bits that speak to things that have been said so that by a preponderance of the evidence, we might all come to one and the same understanding
Matthew 8:28 And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.
Matthew 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
Reserved for Satan and his angels
Matthew 8:28 And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.
Matthew 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
Reserved for Satan and his angels
FreeGrace2 said:
Yes, to their bodies, at the resurrection of all believers at the Second Advent. But NOTHING about souls being given immortality. But the Bible is clear that bodies will be given immortality at the resurrection.
Yes, to their bodies, at the resurrection of all believers at the Second Advent. But NOTHING about souls being given immortality. But the Bible is clear that bodies will be given immortality at the resurrection.
Then prove that God gives immortality to souls. All the Bible says is that God gives immortality to resurrected bodies. I've given you the passages. Read them for yourself.
Wrong. At the resurrection of believers, I will have an immortal body. The Bible says so. I don't need to eat from the tree of life to gain immortality. It will be given to me when I reconnect with my body.
Not until the NE. That's Rev 22.
Wrong x 2. The LOF isn't hell. Hell is Hades, where all the souls of unbelievers are held until their resurrection.
The context is quite clear that the verse is about capital punishment for sins.
FreeGrace2 said:
Because it is pure presumption only.
What I said is that there is MUCH MORE presumption about souls not being inherently immortal than than that they are.
So the clear impression is that souls are immortal. And what will be destroyed in the LOF is the unbeliever's mortal resurrected body.
It is presumption to claim that souls aren't immortal and the Bible doesn't say they are. Nor does the Bible say that souls will cease to exist.
It's just all speculation on the side of annihilationists.
There are no verses that refute my view. That would be a verse that tells us that God gives immortality to the believer's soul.
Because it is pure presumption only.
What I said is that there is MUCH MORE presumption about souls not being inherently immortal than than that they are.
Actually, annihilationists have NO verses that say that souls will cease to exist. They presume that they will. I have NO verses that say that God gives immortality to the souls of believers.
So the clear impression is that souls are immortal. And what will be destroyed in the LOF is the unbeliever's mortal resurrected body.
ONLY IF there was a verse that tells us that God gives immortality to the soul of believers. But there isn't any. The ENTIRE context of believers and their resurrection is about their immortal bodies. Nothing about their souls.
It is presumption to claim that souls aren't immortal and the Bible doesn't say they are. Nor does the Bible say that souls will cease to exist.
It's just all speculation on the side of annihilationists.
There are no verses that refute my view. That would be a verse that tells us that God gives immortality to the believer's soul.
If you could find even just one verse that tells us that God gives immortality to souls when He gives immortality to bodies.
Matt 25:41. However, the Greek for "angels" really means "messenger" and can mean human beings.
btw, just because God will prepare the LOF for Satan and his angels, doesn't mean He won't send unbelievers there.
What is your point?
I already proved it. You rejecting the proof and denying it, telling me I’m wrong, etc isn’t a valid counter argument. Your assumption is that the death only applies to the physical body, but a complete body is flesh, soul, and spirit.
You have a severe disadvantage here because if you’re going to say that the resurrection only applies to the body, then you have no way of proving it applies to the soul and spirit, too, despite Jesus bluntly stating that God can destroy soul and body in hell which you seem to reject as being the only alternative to being saved.
James said God can save or destroy. You say “see? It says can!” But you aren’t able to refute it as a being what will happen because the only options are “save or destroy.”
Frankly, you’re just stalling. You have nothing but half baked ideas and assumptions you can’t prove.
Anyone else notice that in the New Testament that the word for soul is sometimes translated to say life instead? Sometimes it’s even translated as heart or mind. (See Ephesians 6:6 where it uses the word for soul for heart and Philippians 1:27 where it uses the word for soul for mind.)
G5590 (BibleHub link)
psuché
Strong's Concordance
Original Word: ψυχή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: psuché
Phonetic Spelling: (psoo-khay')
Definition: breath, the soul
Usage: (a) the vital breath, breath of life, (b) the human soul, (c) the soul as the seat of affections and will, (d) the self, (e) a human person, an individual.
It’s used 104 times in the New Testament this way, often translated to say life rather than soul. The word for life (physical or spiritual) is something else and it’s G2222 (BibleHub link) in the Strong’s concordance.
Here are some examples:
John 15:13 KJV
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Matthew 10:28 KJV
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Romans 11:13 KJV
Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
1 Peter 3:20 KJV
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
Any idea why they are replacing the word for soul with life, or mind, or heart in the New Testament when there are already different words for life, heart, and mind in Greek?
This honestly doesn’t seem like life, heart, or mind is the correct translation for soul just looking at the concordance. This could be a better question for a new thread.
G5590 (BibleHub link)
psuché
Strong's Concordance
psuché: breath, the soulOriginal Word: ψυχή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: psuché
Phonetic Spelling: (psoo-khay')
Definition: breath, the soul
Usage: (a) the vital breath, breath of life, (b) the human soul, (c) the soul as the seat of affections and will, (d) the self, (e) a human person, an individual.
It’s used 104 times in the New Testament this way, often translated to say life rather than soul. The word for life (physical or spiritual) is something else and it’s G2222 (BibleHub link) in the Strong’s concordance.
Here are some examples:
John 15:13 KJV
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Matthew 10:28 KJV
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Romans 11:13 KJV
Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
1 Peter 3:20 KJV
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
Any idea why they are replacing the word for soul with life, or mind, or heart in the New Testament when there are already different words for life, heart, and mind in Greek?
This honestly doesn’t seem like life, heart, or mind is the correct translation for soul just looking at the concordance. This could be a better question for a new thread.
The word of God refute you
Matthew 25:46. New International Version ... “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”.
Romans 2:12 For all who have sinned apart from the law will also perish (ἀπόλλυμι)
apart from the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.
1 Corinthians 1:18 For the message about the cross is foolishness to those
who are perishing (ἀπόλλυμι), but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
1 Thessalonians 5:3 Now when they are saying, "There is peace and security," then sudden destruction
(ὄλεθρος) comes on them, like labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will surely not escape.
2 Thessalonians 1:9 They will undergo the penalty of eternal destruction
(ὄλεθρος), away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his strength.
2 Thessalonians 2:10 and with every kind of evil deception directed against those who are
perishing (ἀπόλλυμι), because they found no place in their hearts for the truth so as to be saved.
1 Timothy 6:9 Those who long to be rich, however, stumble into temptation and a trap and
many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin (ἀπόλλυμι) and destruction (ἀπώλεια).
ἀπόλλυμι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: apollumi
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-ol'-loo-mee)
Definition: to destroy, destroy utterly
ὄλεθρος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: olethros
Phonetic Spelling: (ol'-eth-ros)
from ollumi (to destroy)
Definition: destruction, death
apart from the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.
1 Corinthians 1:18 For the message about the cross is foolishness to those
who are perishing (ἀπόλλυμι), but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
1 Thessalonians 5:3 Now when they are saying, "There is peace and security," then sudden destruction
(ὄλεθρος) comes on them, like labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will surely not escape.
2 Thessalonians 1:9 They will undergo the penalty of eternal destruction
(ὄλεθρος), away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his strength.
2 Thessalonians 2:10 and with every kind of evil deception directed against those who are
perishing (ἀπόλλυμι), because they found no place in their hearts for the truth so as to be saved.
1 Timothy 6:9 Those who long to be rich, however, stumble into temptation and a trap and
many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin (ἀπόλλυμι) and destruction (ἀπώλεια).
ἀπόλλυμι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: apollumi
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-ol'-loo-mee)
Definition: to destroy, destroy utterly
ὄλεθρος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: olethros
Phonetic Spelling: (ol'-eth-ros)
from ollumi (to destroy)
Definition: destruction, death
John 3:15 That whosoever BELIEVETH IN HIM SHOULD NOT PERISH BUT HAVE ETERNAL LIFE
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
John 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
John 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
John 4:36 And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together.
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
John 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
2920. krisis a decision, judgment
John 5:38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
John 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
John 6:48 I am that bread of life.
John 6:50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
John 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
John 6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
John 6:57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
John 6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
John 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
John 8:21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
John 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
John 8:38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
John 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
John 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
John 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
John 8:46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
John 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
John 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
John 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
John 4:36 And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together.
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
John 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
2920. krisis a decision, judgment
John 5:38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
John 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
John 6:48 I am that bread of life.
John 6:50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
John 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
John 6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
John 6:57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
John 6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
John 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
John 8:21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
John 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
John 8:38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
John 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
John 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
John 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
John 8:46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
John 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
John 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
John 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
John 11:49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
John 11:50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
John 11:51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
John 11:52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
John 12:23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.
John 12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
John 12:25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
John 12:26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.
John 12:27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.
John 12:28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.
John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
John 13:36 Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards.
John 13:37 Peter said unto him, Lord, why cannot I follow thee now? I will lay down my life for thy sake.
John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
John 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
John 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
John 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
John 11:49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
John 11:50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
John 11:51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
John 11:52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
John 12:23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.
John 12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
John 12:25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
John 12:26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.
John 12:27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.
John 12:28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.
John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
John 13:36 Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards.
John 13:37 Peter said unto him, Lord, why cannot I follow thee now? I will lay down my life for thy sake.
John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
John 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
John 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Who started the body and soul having separate judgments? SERIOUSLY?
Hebrews 5:6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Hebrews 5:7 Who IN THE DAYS OF HIS FLESH , when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears UNTO HIM THAT WAS ABLE TO SAVE HIM FROM DEATH and was heard in that he feared;
Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Hebrews 5:10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
Hebrews 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
Hebrews 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Hebrews 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
Hebrews 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Hebrews 5:6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Hebrews 5:7 Who IN THE DAYS OF HIS FLESH , when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears UNTO HIM THAT WAS ABLE TO SAVE HIM FROM DEATH and was heard in that he feared;
Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Hebrews 5:10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
Hebrews 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
Hebrews 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Hebrews 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
Hebrews 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Proverbs tells us that all who hate the Lord “love death” (Prov. 8:36) and that when “the tempest” of God’s judgment passes, “the wicked are no more…” (10:25). When God’s fury rises, “the wicked are overthrown and are no more…” (12:7). And finally, “the evil have no future; the lamp of the wicked will go out” (24:20). It seems impossible to accept that the wicked have “no future” if in fact they shall never cease to experience an eternal future in the LoF. It is also impossible to accept that the wicked will “be no more” and even be “as though they never were” if they shall be existing in eternal torment.
The repeated teaching of the Old Testament that while God’s anger endures for a moment, his love endures forever (Ps. 30:5; e.g. 2 Chr. 5:13; 7:3, 6; 20:21; Ps. 100:5; 103:9; 106:1; 107:1; Ps 118;1-4, 29; 136:10-26). How is this consistent with the traditional teaching that God’s love and anger are equally eternal?
The New Testament also frequently expresses the destiny of the wicked by depicting them as dying or perishing, as being destroyed by fire, and other ways of describing the fate of the wicked which directly or indirectly speak of a cessation of being. Jesus tells His disciples not to fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather “fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell” (Matt. 10:28).
James teaches that God alone is able to both “save and destroy” (Jam. 4:12). Peter teaches that “destruction” awaits false, greedy teachers (2 Pet. 2:3). Moreover, all who are “enemies of the cross” have “destruction” as their final end (Phil. 3:18–19, cf. 1:28). So too, if anyone “destroys the temple of God, God will destroy that person” (1 Cor. 3:17). With the same force the apostle teaches that “sudden destruction” will come upon the wicked in the last days (1 Thess. 5:3). This day is elsewhere described as a day for “the destruction of the godless” (2 Pet. 3:7). He also says, "Remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins." These passages contradict the traditional view that unsaved souls do not die, are never destroyed but rather endure endless torment.
John proclaims the good news that God sent Jesus so that “everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life” (John 3:16). Paul utilizes this same contrast when he states that while those who proclaim the gospel are “the fragrance of life” to “those who are being saved,” they are “the smell of death” to “those who are perishing” (2 Cor. 2:15–16). So too, Paul teaches that “the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life.” This is consistent with Jesus’ teaching that those who try to find life apart from God end up losing it (Matt. 10:39). Paul also says that Christ came to “abolish death and [bring] life and immortality to light through the gospel” (1 Tim. 1:10).
When all the biblical evidence is assessed apart from the Hellenistic philosophical assumption that the soul is innately immortal (despite the clear teaching of Scripture to the contrary), it becomes clear that the fate of the wicked is eventual annihilation, not unending torment. source
The repeated teaching of the Old Testament that while God’s anger endures for a moment, his love endures forever (Ps. 30:5; e.g. 2 Chr. 5:13; 7:3, 6; 20:21; Ps. 100:5; 103:9; 106:1; 107:1; Ps 118;1-4, 29; 136:10-26). How is this consistent with the traditional teaching that God’s love and anger are equally eternal?
The New Testament also frequently expresses the destiny of the wicked by depicting them as dying or perishing, as being destroyed by fire, and other ways of describing the fate of the wicked which directly or indirectly speak of a cessation of being. Jesus tells His disciples not to fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather “fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell” (Matt. 10:28).
James teaches that God alone is able to both “save and destroy” (Jam. 4:12). Peter teaches that “destruction” awaits false, greedy teachers (2 Pet. 2:3). Moreover, all who are “enemies of the cross” have “destruction” as their final end (Phil. 3:18–19, cf. 1:28). So too, if anyone “destroys the temple of God, God will destroy that person” (1 Cor. 3:17). With the same force the apostle teaches that “sudden destruction” will come upon the wicked in the last days (1 Thess. 5:3). This day is elsewhere described as a day for “the destruction of the godless” (2 Pet. 3:7). He also says, "Remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins." These passages contradict the traditional view that unsaved souls do not die, are never destroyed but rather endure endless torment.
John proclaims the good news that God sent Jesus so that “everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life” (John 3:16). Paul utilizes this same contrast when he states that while those who proclaim the gospel are “the fragrance of life” to “those who are being saved,” they are “the smell of death” to “those who are perishing” (2 Cor. 2:15–16). So too, Paul teaches that “the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life.” This is consistent with Jesus’ teaching that those who try to find life apart from God end up losing it (Matt. 10:39). Paul also says that Christ came to “abolish death and [bring] life and immortality to light through the gospel” (1 Tim. 1:10).
When all the biblical evidence is assessed apart from the Hellenistic philosophical assumption that the soul is innately immortal (despite the clear teaching of Scripture to the contrary), it becomes clear that the fate of the wicked is eventual annihilation, not unending torment. source
I think that the computer has made it possible to shed light into the many false doctrines presently being put forth BUT there won't be enough time to do so. THIS subject, a very simple and straightforward one, shows the difficulty even when there is tons of Scripture to fall back on. Days and days untwisting this and that feeling the forcefulness that leaves you in fervent prayer asking IF you do, in fact , have it right even WHEN YOU KNOW for sure what you're seeing can't be truth, if for no other reason than THAT IS NOT THE GOD I KNOW.
How is it annihilation isn't seen as more MERCIFUL than eternal torment? I could see it if Satan was the one on the judgment seat doling out the punishment, BUT GOD? No way. Thank you again.
You claim that souls are NOT immortal. Prove it by showing that at the resurrection of believers, the soul is given immortality, along with the body that is resurrected. That is your proof.
My proof is that all the verses about the believers' resurrection ONLY mentions the immortal body. If God has to give immortality to the soul, WHY isn't that mentioned?
Your view is so parallel to the argument of the pretribbers rapture. In spite of NO VERSES that show Jesus taking resurrected believers to heaven, they STILL believe that He will
You don't believe the soul is immortal yet there are NO VERSES that show God giving immortality to the soul, though the Bible DOES show God raising an immortal body for each believer.
Once again, "able to" DOES NOT MEAN "will", as you keep insisting.
And, 1 Tim 2:4 says God WANTS all men to be saved, yet many will not be saved, and 1 Pet 3:9 says God COMMANDS everyone to repent, but many will not repent.
So your insistence is inconsistent with Scripture.
Again, "can" does NOT mean "will".
All references of destroy and perish are about the body, JUST AS all references to resurrection are about the body.
You reject the truth. That is your freedom. But you have no excuse.
If there was just 1 verse that teaches that God gives immortality to the souls of believers, you would have proved your claim.
No one. Who started the fallacy that God gives immortality to the souls of believers? You guys. All without any verse that says so.
Go find such a verse and prove your claim.
