And the SMOKE of their torment...No eternal damnation for anyone, except the Devil

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
By all means, join up with the atheists then.

a true Christian would never tell someone to join up with the atheists.

Well, here you are, wrong again. I am a true Christian, and my posts prove that. And many Christians have been deceived by the devil and believe "doctrines of demons", according to 1 Tim 4:1 - But the Spirit saith expressly, that in later times some shall fall away from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons,

Any theology that is unbiblical falls under the title of doctrines of demons.

You’re telling me to get in league with darkness.

Wrong again. I am telling you that you have aligned your views with atheists.

I don’t see that the Holy Spirit is guiding your words.

You are blind to the truth since your maudlin sentimentality is your problem.

You don’t have credibility here and I am taking a stand on this.

"here"? Really. There are many who believe souls are immortal and unbelievers will suffer for eternity. Sure, I don't have any with you and your buddy, but so what?

My challenge to you is the same as my challenge to kleronomos: find any verse that clearly communicates that God GIVES immortality to the souls of believers at the resurrection.

In 1 Cor 15:42-54 and 1 Pet 1:23 the WHOLE emphasis on resurrection is about the BODY becoming immortal. Nothing about the soul.

Let me know when you find such a verse.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I told you to not call people maudlin again, but you did it anyway. You’re making this forum toxic.

Thank you for your opinion again. However, I explained EXACTLY what I meant by that word. It's up to you to read my posts and understand what I have explained.

I use it to describe excessive emotionalism over something. Either you or kleronomos stated that an eternal suffering is CRUEL.

So, it is your view that God would be cruel if He caused unbelievers to suffer for eternity. That is maudlin. It offends YOU so you think such a policy would offend God.

You are guilty of transference.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
By all means, join up with the atheists then.

This is what the eternal torment people have produced. An alleged man who tells people to join the atheists.

It was either you or kleronomos who actually said the atheists were RIGHT about souls ceasing to exist. You have no point.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Wrong.

Jesus said this:

Matthew 10:28
28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

You are forcing "able to" to mean "will" here. No verse says that souls will cease to exist.

Since you believe that "able to" does mean "will", then explain 1 Tim 2:4 that says God WANTS all men to be saved when most WON'T be saved. And explain 1 Pet 3:9 that says God COMMANDS all men to repent when most WON'T repent.

Words mean things. Apparently you don't know that.

according to your false doctrine this should read “destroy both body and body in hell.”

The Bible doesn't say God will destroy souls.

 

[Runningman]

You are forcing "able to" to mean "will" here. No verse says that souls will cease to exist.

Since you believe that "able to" does mean "will", then explain 1 Tim 2:4 that says God WANTS all men to be saved when most WON'T be saved. And explain 1 Pet 3:9 that says God COMMANDS all men to repent when most WON'T repent.

Words mean things. Apparently you don't know that.


The Bible doesn't say God will destroy souls.

Your posts contain nothing of value and I see you are unable to restrain yourself from being deceptive, manipulative, and using insults. I honestly don’t believe you’re a true Christian. Christ would never tell a Christian to join up with the atheists and abandon the faith. You’ve called me stupid and maudlin several times after I told you not to. This is my first time saying this but a moderator needs to deal with you in my opinion.

No Spirit in your words, no fruit, and you’ve lost this debate. You need to learn how to gracefully just accept that. Just a bunch hot air coming from your corner at this pont.

 

[Mem]

Yeah, that YOU HAVE TO BE ALIVE TO KNOW IT. YOU HAVE TO BE ALIVE TO FEEL IT. YOU HAVE TO HAVE IMMORTALITY TO KNOW AND FEEL FOREVER That is what you keep saying over and over

And thus, SINCE THERE IS NO LIFE APART FROM GOD, YOU HAVE TO ASSUME that God sustains this life (existence of perpetual torture) FOREVER!

 

[Mem]

Your posts contain nothing of value and I see you are unable to restrain yourself from being deceptive, manipulative, and using insults. I honestly don’t believe you’re a true Christian. Christ would never tell a Christian to join up with the atheists and abandon the faith. You’ve called me stupid and maudlin several times after I told you not to. This is my first time saying this but a moderator needs to deal with you in my opinion.

No Spirit in your words, no fruit, and you’ve lost this debate. You need to learn how to gracefully just accept that. Just a bunch hot air coming from your corner at this pont.

And what if your position IS, and does accurately characterize, the reality? Well then, he might as well be presented God's character as maudlin

 

[Runningman]

And what if your position IS, and does accurately characterize, the reality? Well then, he might as well be presented God's character as maudlin

True. That’s the implication. You know, maudlin means someone is a crying drunk.

Jesus endured a similar insult:

Matthew 11:19
The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’ But wisdom is proved right by her deeds.”

I guess I’m doing something right. Praise God.

 

[kleronomos]

And thus, SINCE THERE IS NO LIFE APART FROM GOD, YOU HAVE TO ASSUME that God sustains this life (existence of perpetual torture) FOREVER!

Since there is no life apart from GOD - You have to assume the PUNISHMENT, which is DEATH has been carried out.

Since there is no life apart from GOD - You have to assume that once they have received their punishment, they no longer exist and will not exist for all eternity.

The first death is the death of the body. (don't worry about the death of the soul at that time)

The 2nd death is of the body and soul in the lake of fire. (worry about both body and soul)

No body, No soul nothing for God to sustain. GONE/DEATH



1 Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

1 Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: (don't fear man who kill body)

1 Corinthians 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

1 Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.




1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

1 Corinthians 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Your posts contain nothing of value and I see you are unable to restrain yourself from being deceptive, manipulative, and using insults.

Why don't you just admit that you cannot find any verse that specifically indicates that God GIVES immortality to the souls of believers at any point in time? Because your whole theory is based on believers being given soul immortality. Prove when that occurs from Scripture. I KNOW there are no such verses. So your theory is all based on PRESUMPTION only.

I learned from the Bereans, per Acts 17:11 to believe what the Bible SAYS. And the Bible doesn't say anything about God giving immortality to souls. The Bible DOES SAY that God gives the resurrected bodies of believers immortality. That is very clear in 1 Cor 15 and 1 Pet 3:9.

I honestly don’t believe you’re a true Christian.

Your opinion is of no concern to me. I've made my position very clear from my posts. You are free to misunderstand or ignore them.

Christ would never tell a Christian to join up with the atheists and abandon the faith.

When did I ever tell you to "abandon the faith"s? That is a LIE, which you seem quite eager to do.

You’ve called me stupid and maudlin several times after I told you not to.

First, it is a LIE that I ever called you stupid. I have described some of what you post as stupid. That is totally different than calling you stupid. And you have no authority to tell me what to do.

This is my first time saying this but a moderator needs to deal with you in my opinion.

I have been straightforward in my posts. I have used Scripture. I have proven my view.

Unless you can prove that God gives immortality to the soul, you have no case whatsoever.

 

[Mem]

Since there is no life apart from GOD - You have to assume the PUNISHMENT, which is DEATH has been carried out.

Since there is no life apart from GOD - You have to assume that once they have received their punishment, they no longer exist and will not exist for all eternity.

The first death is the death of the body. (don't worry about the death of the soul at that time)

The 2nd death is of the body and soul in the lake of fire. (worry about both body and soul)

No body, No soul nothing for God to sustain. GONE/DEATH



1 Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

1 Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: (don't fear man who kill body)

1 Corinthians 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

1 Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.




1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

1 Corinthians 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Correct. I would have better qualified my initial statement, ..."you have to (erroneously) assume (that) God sustains this life (as existence of perpetual torture) forever, in order to maintain the position (of eternal conscious torment).

 

[FreeGrace2]

And what if your position IS, and does accurately characterize, the reality? Well then, he might as well be presented God's character as maudlin

Rm's position isn't true nor does it characterize reality.

Here's the challenge for all who embrace annihilation of the soul: find a verse that clearly communicates that God gives immortality to the soul. In all the verses that deal with believer resurrection, the whole emphasis is on the BODY receiving immortality, and NOTHING about souls receiving immortality. See 1 Cor 15:42-54 and 1 Pet 1:23.

So, unless RM or klero can prove their claim that souls are mortal unless God makes them immortal, they have no point.

I invite you to help them find verses that support their claim.

 

[FreeGrace2]

True. That’s the implication. You know, maudlin means someone is a crying drunk.

I explained EXACTLY what I meant. I didn't even see "crying drunk" in the definition I quoted from.

 

[kleronomos]

True. That’s the implication. You know, maudlin means someone is a crying drunk.

Jesus endured a similar insult:

Matthew 11:19
The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’ But wisdom is proved right by her deeds.”

I guess I’m doing something right. Praise God.

Yes, thank you for passing that on. LOVE THE WORDS OF GOD. To turn the other cheek is a hard thing. The 'flesh' cries out to recompense evil for evil, but the SPIRIT that dwells within helps to crucify the flesh. To whom more is given more is expected. I would hate to claim to 'KNOW everything written' yet come judgment be found not only not to have taken it to heart but to have gone the opposite.



James 3:9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.

James 3:10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

James 3:11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?

James 3:12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.

James 3:13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.

James 3:14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.

James 3:15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.

James 3:16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.


I was hoping to knock the edge off it and let it pass, I failed. Thank you again.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The 2nd death is of the body and soul in the lake of fire. (worry about both body and soul)

Just your assumption.

No body, No soul nothing for God to sustain. GONE/DEATH

Assumption.

1 Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1 Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: (don't fear man who kill body)
1 Corinthians 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
1 Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1 Corinthians 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.
There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

See? Nothing about souls receiving immortality. All emphasis is on the BODY receiving immortality. There is NOTHING about souls receiving immortality.

I assume all souls are immortal, since the Bible never says God give immortality to the souls of believers at the resurrection, or at any other time.

 

[Mem]

Rm's position isn't true nor does it characterize reality.

Here's the challenge for all who embrace annihilation of the soul: find a verse that clearly communicates that God gives immortality to the soul. In all the verses that deal with believer resurrection, the whole emphasis is on the BODY receiving immortality, and NOTHING about souls receiving immortality. See 1 Cor 15:42-54 and 1 Pet 1:23.

So, unless RM or klero can prove their claim that souls are mortal unless God makes them immortal, they have no point.

I invite you to help them find verses that support their claim.

If you can accept John 10:28 as of any help. The words are written in red, they are Jesus' own words...

"I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them out of My hand."

 

[FreeGrace2]

I was hoping to knock the edge off it and let it pass, I failed. Thank you again.

Have you been looking for verses that clearly tell us that God gives immortality to the souls of believers, either AT the resurrection or at any other time?

That would be proof that souls AREN'T immortal from the start. That is how you would prove your claim. The only way.

 

[FreeGrace2]

If you can accept John 10:28 as of any help. The words are written in red, they are Jesus' own words... "I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them out of My hand."

I love john 10:28. It is the clearest statement in the Bible about eternal security.

After studying all the verses about the resurrection of believers, and their receiving immortal BODIES, and NONE that describe Jesus giving the souls of believers immortality, it isn't difficult to understand that "perish, destroy/etc" only refer to the body of unbelievers, which will happen when they are cast into the LOF.

Unless there is at least 1 verse that clearly teaches that the souls of believers receive immortality at some point, there is no reason to assume that.

And, all the verses about the resurrection of believers is about BODIES becoming immortal. But nothing about the souls.

 

[kleronomos]

Have you been looking for verses that clearly tell us that God gives immortality to the souls of believers, either AT the resurrection or at any other time?

That would be proof that souls AREN'T immortal from the start. That is how you would prove your claim. The only way.

MY FINAL REPLY TO ANYTHING YOU POST
Yes, I have. Yes, I have found them. And yes, I understand you can not.

 

[Magenta]

MY FINAL REPLY TO ANYTHING YOU POST
Yes, I have. Yes, I have found them. And yes, I understand you can not.

He alone is immortal and dwells in unapproachable light. No one has ever seen Him, nor can anyone see Him.
To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen. 1 Timothy 6:16 should settle the matter, but of course, it does not

It is unbelievable how many Christians deny the truth of 1 Timothy 6:16