And the SMOKE of their torment...No eternal damnation for anyone, except the Devil

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
The Greek word doesn't ONLY mean "utterly destroy", so get off your horse, ok? It it used mostly for physical death. Context proves that.

Everyone gets a physical death eventually

It's NOT a punishment. And believers get their bodies back permanently. So what is your point?

and isn’t common to die a first death whereby someone is “utterly destroyed.”

Even believers who get blown up by a bomb will get their body back. So what is your point?

The utterly destryed bit, or perish, means the second death is utter destruction.

Your opinion only. The Greek word has a range of meanings, which you don't want to admit. You are guilty of illegitimate totality transfer.

It doesn’t refer to just the physical body, but to everything else too.

Says you.

Why would utterly destroy only mean physical death when God can destroy soul and body in hell?

Because the Bible uses the word for physical death, is why.

And, if you equate "can" with "will", then you have a huge problem with 1 Tim 2:4 and 1 Pet 3:9. Will everyone be saved, and repent?

But God WANTS everyone to be saved. Doesn't God always get what He wants? And He commanded people everywhere to repent. Is everyone going to repent?

Now you’re telling people to abandon the faith.

This is another LIE. Prove your ridiculous claim with a post # and the actual quote. I know you can't.

That’s pretty bad.

Your LIES ARE pretty bad. And getting lower and lower. You have no class.

Do you even know what maudlin means?

Of course.

Maudlin:
self-pityingly or tearfully sentimental, often through drunkenness.

What kind of kindergarten dictionary are you using?

You’re basically calling me a crying drunk.

You are getting really pitiful.

I gave you a dictionary definition of the word, and this is all you come up with. And your partner in crime acknowleged it.

Seriously that’s not appropriate so I’d appreciate it if you wouldn’t call me that or anyone else here again.

I call em as I see em.

I won’t leave the church out of this because I want to help the church correct their error.

You act as if there is some central body that dictactes policy and doctrine to ALL churches out there. Not even close.

Actually an intriguing comment. What is the modern church then?

I told you in my reply. Mainstream protestantism. They went off the rails decades ago and now embrace left wing propaganda like social justice, CRT, and marxism.

My foundation is that while I’m alive on this earth I will be a student of the Bible. A student is always ready to learn more and if presented with facts I’ll change my perspective.

You can't see the facts because of your maudlin sentimentality.

1 Tim. 6:15,16
15Which in his times he shall shew, who isthe blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Only God is immortal unless He gives immortality to those who believe in Christ.

Quote the verse, please. I'm already aware of your opinion.

Psalm 37:20
20But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

Does the fat of lambs live forever? Does it disappear like smoke when burned? That’s what happens to the wicked.

Talking about their bodies at the second death.

Your question sounds like you’re questioning why it’s necessary to repent.

No, I question your opinions.

You don’t think confessing to God is necessary

You really have a comprehension issue. Of course confession is necessary to restore fellowship with God and be cleansed.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I quoted:
Lam 1:20 - “See, LORD, how distressed I am! I am in torment within, and in my heart I am disturbed, for I have been most rebellious. Outside, the sword bereaves; inside, there is only death.

Lam 2:11 - My eyes fail from weeping, I am in torment within ; my heart is poured out on the ground because my people are destroyed,
because children and infants faint in the streets of the city.

Proof that it is the soul that experiences torment.

And The Bible DOESN'T say that just the Devil would be tormented. He will be cast into the LOF where the beast and FP ARE, meaning STILL ARE, after 1,000 years of already being IN the LOF.

Matt 25:41 says "the devil AND his angels", which the word means "messenger", so it could refer to both the fallen angels AND all humans who have been deceived by the devil.

Is that what you believe?

Yes, I believe these verses, which prove that souls suffer.

I am creating 'attacks'? How does posting what is written and exposing what isn't but is 'concluded' (which causes such a wideness to the whole bible since we could have MANY DIFFERENT CONCLUSIONS by many different people on this subject yet we only have WHAT IS WRITTEN once) an ATTACK?

What you do is twist verses.

To be clear,
I believe up until the end of the Lords Day there is torment. I believe souls do feel torment. Yet I don't believe torment proceeds past the end of this age. Torment for the sake of torment forever and ever is without reason.

You are free to believe all this. I am free to believe that unbelievers will experience punishment forever.

I believe at the end of the GWTJ that death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.

So do I. And the resurrected bodies of ALL believers will perish, cease to exist.

I believe that is the second death.

So do I. It refers to the resurrected unbeliever's body.

I do not believe that 'death' is eternal life in torment.

That's your problem calling the LOF "eternal life". But you are free to continue making that mistake.

I believe whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

I agree.

This is where you and I differ because I continue on the path, WHERE you choose to fall backwards.

You aren't on a biblical path. But you are free to walk that path.

So, I believe AFTER the GWTJ there will be
A new heaven and a new earth:
and I believe
for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away

I believe all this, too.

And so I believe the LOF, having been a part of the heaven and earth that passed away HAS ALSO PASSED.

Well, you are imagining things. The Bible NEVER describes where the LOF is located. You are just presuming again.

What I may or may not think the meaning of the word "FOR EVER" is, and whether it is for ever or just forever for that age, DOES NOT DICTATE how I will read what follows. WHAT IS WRITTEN will be what confirms the MEANING of it, not my knowledge nor my belief. The ONLY TRUTH that I can depend on is what is written.
and there was no more sea.

And I think, LAKE? SEA? both are water. Would that mean No sea, No lake? I don't know, but upon consideration of it,
the LOF making it past the last age is getting a MINUS POINT.

Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Revelation 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

And I think, GOD DWELLING with HIS PEOPLE. Those in the LOF are NOT HIS PEOPLE. - 1 point. At this point I would think twice before teaching it, that's for sure. I may not understand, but with THE PUNISHMENT so severe, I don't think so.

So, I read on looking for evidence or confirmation in either direction. I am starting to think that word 'for ever' does not mean what some others think it means.

Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes;

and there shall be no more death,

How does that set with DEATH AS CONSCIOUS TORMENT IN THE LAKE OF FIRE BEING PRESENT IN THE NEW HEAVEN AND EARTH AGE? -1

Though common sense tells me I have my answer, I still have this person just insisting OVER AND OVER
1. that death isn't a punishment, only torment that lasts forever is
2. and DEATH is not death at all, but instead is an immortal life in torture.

Erring on the side of caution and to be certain to give this sottish argument it's due so that anyone coming upon it will not be deceived by all the 'talk' that sounds so wise but feels so wrong, I continue on. I want to make sure EVERYONE who ever reads this will have a CLEAR understanding not only about this, but also

so they can RECOGNIZE how those who teach what is concluded OVER what is written

TREAT and attack those who don't.

A lesson on discernment almost as valuable as this one,

neither sorrow,

sorrow comes with torment that never ever ends, no matter the level of the torment. Is there any way possible the LOF can continue on with it containing all sorts of stages of torment yet not having sorrow? And if not those in the LOF what about those who are LIVING in the NEW HEAVEN AND NEW EARTH? MAUDLIN? I know of one person who would, if indeed there were a lake of FIRE around. -1.

SINCE THE PENALTY IS SO GREAT for teaching FALSELY, I really want to be sure.

What are the chances that GOD would create for us a place too wonderful for words, and have the LOF with eternal tormented souls be a part of it? Does that sound like HEAVEN to anyone? We are not just speaking about WORDS and word definitions here, THIS IS THE REALITY THAT WE WILL SOMEDAY BE LIVING. We have to SEE the reality of a situation when we are either attacking or defending it.

nor crying,
-1


neither shall there be any more pain
-1


Isn't that the whole point of eternal torment? To MAKE THEM PAY with pain and suffering? We know that without ANY HOPE it isn't for any sort of CORRECTION. They could NEVER change, and even if they could it would never matter. They can BEG AND PLEAD FOR MERCY, but nothing would ever come of it.


for the former things are passed away.
-1

The Lake of fire, which comes at the end of the Lords Day, which comes at the end of this age, will become like everything else,

a part of the past and of the former that is passed away. How can we be sure?

IT IS WRITTEN,

Revelation 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new.

And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Nothing here is relevant to your opinions about souls ceasing to exist.

 

[FreeGrace2]

1 Peter 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1 Peter 1:24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away

1 Peter 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

MUST BE BORN AGAIN TO RECEIVE INCORRUPTION/IMMORTALITY

All this refers to the mortal body being changed to an immortal body.

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God;

neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

5356. phthora
Strong's Concordance
phthora: destruction, corruption
Original Word: φθορά, ᾶς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: phthora
Phonetic Spelling: (fthor-ah')
Definition: destruction, corruption
Usage: corruption, destruction, decay, rottenness, decomposition.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 5356 phthorá (from 5351 /phtheírō) – destruction from internal corruption (deterioration, decay); "rottenness, perishableness, corruption, decay, decomposition" (Souter). See 5351 (phteírō).

Refers to the body.

THE EVIL DON'T BECOME IMMORTAL

Their bodies won't. You are projecting that their souls will cease to exist. Because your sentiments are maudlin.

They receive their THEIR DEATH SENTENCE, take their part in the LOF where they
THEY VANISH becoming nothing - FOREVER AND EVER aka eternal punishment

All just presumption.

IN THE NEW HEAVEN AND EARTH there is no REMEMBRANCE of them.

And you think this is proof that their souls will cease to exist. The Bible teaches that God removes the memories of the old earth.

Galatians 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

To "reap" anything means to work for it. No one works for eternal life. It is a free gift. Rom 6:23

The verse is about believers who sow to the flesh shall physically die from God's divine discipline. Also taught in 1 Cor 11:30.

2 Peter 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
2 Peter 2:11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
2 Peter 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption

Their bodies, obviously.

Psalm 112:9 He hath dispersed, he hath given to the poor; his righteousness endureth for ever; his horn shall be exalted with honour.
Psalm 112:10 The wicked shall see it, and be grieved; he shall gnash with his teeth, and melt away: the desire of the wicked shall perish.
Psalm 6:1 O LORD, rebuke me not in thine anger, neither chasten me in thy hot displeasure.
Psalm 6:2 Have mercy upon me, O LORD; for I am weak: O LORD, heal me; for my bones are vexed.
Psalm 6:3 My soul is also sore vexed: but thou, O LORD, how long?
Psalm 6:4 Return, O LORD, deliver my soul: oh save me for thy mercies' sake.
Psalm 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
Psalm 34:9 O fear the LORD, ye his saints: for there is no want to them that fear him.
Psalm 34:10 The young lions do lack, and suffer hunger: but they that seek the LORD shall not want any good thing.
Psalm 34:11 Come, ye children, hearken unto me: I will teach you the fear of the LORD.
Psalm 34:12 What man is he that desireth life, and loveth many days, that he may see good?
Psalm 34:13 Keep thy tongue from evil, and thy lips from speaking guile.
Psalm 34:14 Depart from evil, and do good; seek peace, and pursue it.
Psalm 34:15 The eyes of the LORD are upon the righteous, and his ears are open unto their cry.
Psalm 34:16 The face of the LORD is against them that do evil, to cut off the remembrance of them from the earth.

None of these verse SAY that the soul will cease to exist. That is only in your mind.

1 Timothy 5:6 But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth.

Real desperation really kicks in here. This verse has NOTHING to do with souls, or even bodies.

A believer that lives in or for pleasure is out of fellowship with th Lord. That is a temporal separation. Fellowship is dead.

When you quote verses that have nothing to do with literal death, shows you have no ammo.

 

[kleronomos]

It's NOT a punishment. And believers get their bodies back permanently. So what is your point?

You don't think death is a punishment? Does ANYTHING that is written have meaning?

Genesis 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.




Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
NO ONE says unbelievers get eternal life in the LOF. So quit already. You continue to lose credibility when you create these red herrings.

YOU DO, over and over.

This is a blatant LIE. That doesn't please God.

I challenge you to prove your claim.

 

[kleronomos]

Nothing here is relevant to your opinions about souls ceasing to exist.

HOW ABOUT NOW?

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
What the Bible does say is that the punishment IS eternal. That the shame and contempt IS eternal. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand what this means.

Yeah, that YOU HAVE TO BE ALIVE TO KNOW IT. YOU HAVE TO BE ALIVE TO FEEL IT. YOU HAVE TO HAVE IMMORTALITY TO KNOW AND FEEL FOREVER That is what you keep saying over and over

Again, a LIE. I've NEVER described any unbeliever as having immortality. I know what the Bible says. When Jesus returns at the Second Advent all believers will receive a new body, an immortal body. That is never said about unbelievers. They will experience a second death, which refers to their mortal bodies, when they are thrown into the lake of fire.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Ecclesiastes 1:11 There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.

Right, there is nothing new under the sun. A major theme of Ecclesiastes- the futility of this life.
Don't get blessings for the righteous confused with the fate of the damned. Our sins will not be remembered.
That isn't a universal blessing. It's only for those who die in Christ.


Isaiah 65:17
17 “See, I will create
new heavens and a new earth.
The former things will not be remembered,
nor will they be brought to mind.

 

[FreeGrace2]

1Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

1Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

1Corinthians 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

1Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

This is all about physical bodies. Not souls. You've proven nothing here.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
It's NOT a punishment. And believers get their bodies back permanently. So what is your point?

You don't think death is a punishment? Does ANYTHING that is written have meaning?

No, I don't think phhysical death is a punishment. Humans inherited a sinful nature, and the aging process from Adam. Heb 9:27 says it is appointed once for man to die, and then the judgment. So all humans will die physically at least once. The punishment is when the unbeliever's mortal and resurrected body will die AGAIN when thrown into the LOF.

Genesis 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.[/QUOTE]
Do you know what the literal Hebrew says here? I'm happy to help out with the bolded words.

"for in the day that you eat of the forbidden fruit, dying, you SHALL surely die."

In the Hebrew, the dying is said twice. The first "dying" is a reference to the aging process which ultimately leads to physical death. The second "die" refers to on the very day they eat of the forbidden fruit, they will SURELY die spiritually. iow, their human spirit will die. Which it did when they did eat.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

How does this verse support your view?

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Nothing here is relevant to your opinions about souls ceasing to exist.

HOW ABOUT NOW?

A bit louder, please. I can barely hear you. lol.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

So you think this verse plainly says that souls will cease to exist, huh. Well, why don't you ever bother with context?

Here is the title at the beginning of the chapter: The One Who Sins Will Die

As I have been saying all along, the Bible uses "soul" to describe a person. This is about capital punishment, which kills the body.

4 For everyone belongs to me, the parent as well as the child—both alike belong to me. The one who sins is the one who will die.
5 “Suppose there is a righteous man who does what is just and right.
6 He does not eat at the mountain shrines or look to the idols of Israel. He does not defile his neighbor’s wife or have sexual relations with a woman during her period.
7 He does not oppress anyone, but returns what he took in pledge for a loan. He does not commit robbery but gives his food to the hungry and provides clothing for the naked.
8 He does not lend to them at interest or take a profit from them. He withholds his hand from doing wrong and judges fairly between two parties.
9 He follows my decrees and faithfully keeps my laws. That man is righteous; he will surely live, declares the Sovereign LORD.

iow, the righteous man will not die from capital punishment.

10 “Suppose he has a violent son, who sheds blood or does any of these other things
11 (though the father has done none of them): “He eats at the mountain shrines. He defiles his neighbor’s wife.
12 He oppresses the poor and needy. He commits robbery. He does not return what he took in pledge. He looks to the idols. He does detestable things.
13 He lends at interest and takes a profit. Will such a man live? He will not! Because he has done all these detestable things, he is to be put to death; his blood will be on his own head.
14 “But suppose this son has a son who sees all the sins his father commits, and though he sees them, he does not do such things:
15 “He does not eat at the mountain shrines or look to the idols of Israel. He does not defile his neighbor’s wife.
16 He does not oppress anyone or require a pledge for a loan. He does not commit robbery but gives his food to the hungry and provides clothing for the naked.
17 He withholds his hand from mistreating the poor and takes no interest or profit from them. He keeps my laws and follows my decrees. He will not die for his father’s sin; he will surely live.

18 But his father will die for his own sin, because he practiced extortion, robbed his brother and did what was wrong among his people.
19 “Yet you ask, ‘Why does the son not share the guilt of his father?’ Since the son has done what is just and right and has been careful to keep all my decrees, he will surely live.
20 The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them.

All this is obviously about crime and capital punishment.

24 “But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die

Everyone will die physically, but it is clear this is about crime and capital punishment, which is physical death.

So Ezek 18:20 does NOT say anything about souls ceasing to exist. You are misreading and misunderstanding the verse because you ignore the context.

 

[Jackson123]

You don't think death is a punishment? Does ANYTHING that is written have meaning?

Genesis 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.




Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Death is punishment but eternal punishment require pain sensor

 

[kleronomos]

Not even close. You have already admitted that your sentiments are maudlin. You are driven by your emotions, not your intellect

Here is another proof,

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

GOD LOVES
Hates
Repents
has compassion
feels wrath
rejoices
gets angry and
HAS WRATH, just to name a couple

WHY is Jesus such a good ADVOCATE? Because He FEELS just like us.

You and I do not see GOD the same at all.

Enough said.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

HOW ABOUT NOW?

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Do you understand Early Middle-English? A soul refers to a person. "A living soul" It's rather archaic language.
I'm going to take it for granted that you don't envisage a load of disembodied souls having sons when you read that verse.

 

[Runningman]

By all means, join up with the atheists then.

a true Christian would never tell someone to join up with the atheists. You’re telling me to get in league with darkness. I don’t see that the Holy Spirit is guiding your words. You don’t have credibility here and I am taking a stand on this.

 

[Runningman]

You can't see the facts because of your maudlin sentimentality.

I told you to not call people maudlin again, but you did it anyway. You’re making this forum toxic.

 

[Runningman]

By all means, join up with the atheists then.

This is what the eternal torment people have produced. An alleged man who tells people to join the atheists.

 

[Runningman]

Do you understand Early Middle-English? A soul refers to a person. "A living soul" It's rather archaic language.
I'm going to take it for granted that you don't envisage a load of disembodied souls having sons when you read that verse.

Wrong.

Jesus said this:

Matthew 10:28
28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

according to your false doctrine this should read “destroy both body and body in hell.” Which doesn’t even make any sense, nor were those the correct words used. You’ve been debunked. Get over it.

 

[Runningman]

Death is punishment but eternal punishment require pain sensor

The word of God refutes you:

Matthew 19:26
26But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

 

[FreeGrace2]

WHY is Jesus such a good ADVOCATE? Because He FEELS just like us.

You and I do not see GOD the same at all.

Right. You see Him through your very maudlin sentimentality.

Enough said.

Not quite.

The whole emphasis on resurrection in the Bible for believers is receiving an immortal (eternal) body. In fact, it's ALL about the body.

1 Cor 15:42-54 and 1 Peter 1:23 - For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

Both texts speak of being born gain of imperishable seed. This is about the BODY. The emphasis is on the change of the body.

God joins the souls of believers to their NEW imperishable bodies at the resurrection.

There is NO MENTION of any change to their souls. None. Zero. Zip.

So, please find any verse that shows that God GIVES immortality to the soul AS WELL AS the body. You won't find any.

This demonstrates to open minded believers that the soul IS immortal already. The Bible doesn't need to say it. It is obvious.

ONLY IF the Bible specifically tells us that the soul is given immortality would we be justified to believe that it isn't otherwise.

So, the very fact of resurrection REFUTES your "mortal soul" theory.