And the SMOKE of their torment...No eternal damnation for anyone, except the Devil
- Thread starter kleronomos
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The bottom line is
God not contradict Himself
one verse enough
Matt 25
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
eternal punishment not cease to exist
use logic, can you punish non existing being?
that simple
remember all verse is in harmony
devil don’t like people go to heaven, and devil like people not scare of hell
so he lie and say he’ll is only a minute suffering and gone
The devil expect people in suffering now, like drug user, chose kill himself to end their suffering.
that why he do what ever he can to twist the Word
i talk to SDA friend, and I notice how he twist the definition of word
for example he defined the word “ perish” as cease to exist
go to online dictionary you found
suffer death, typically in a violent, sudden, or untimely way.
"a great part of his army perished of hunger and disease"
suffer complete ruin or destruction.
"the old regime had to perish"
not cease to exist
than devil say God is love, impossible to Him do such think, kill with fire
God is love but just, God never lie He did punish as He say
God punish sodom and Gomorrah with fire too
the story of the rich man and Lazarus convince me that people on hell like the rich still exist, and suffer thirsty, he ask Abraham to send Lazarus with a drop of water to him
did not exist being talk bad suffer?
devil think we are stupid like when he lie to Eve on the garden
to lower the punishment
no if you eat that fruit you will become like god
say you have a kid
you don’t like your kid to ply on the swimming poll
you say to him
dont ply on the swimming pool, if you do I will punish you with ice cream
i like it dad, I like ice cream
become like God?
I like it
cease to exist, I like it, I am suffering now.
half true
god is love
Yes but hide god is just
God not contradict Himself
one verse enough
Matt 25
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
eternal punishment not cease to exist
use logic, can you punish non existing being?
that simple
remember all verse is in harmony
devil don’t like people go to heaven, and devil like people not scare of hell
so he lie and say he’ll is only a minute suffering and gone
The devil expect people in suffering now, like drug user, chose kill himself to end their suffering.
that why he do what ever he can to twist the Word
i talk to SDA friend, and I notice how he twist the definition of word
for example he defined the word “ perish” as cease to exist
go to online dictionary you found
suffer death, typically in a violent, sudden, or untimely way.
"a great part of his army perished of hunger and disease"
suffer complete ruin or destruction.
"the old regime had to perish"
not cease to exist
than devil say God is love, impossible to Him do such think, kill with fire
God is love but just, God never lie He did punish as He say
God punish sodom and Gomorrah with fire too
the story of the rich man and Lazarus convince me that people on hell like the rich still exist, and suffer thirsty, he ask Abraham to send Lazarus with a drop of water to him
did not exist being talk bad suffer?
devil think we are stupid like when he lie to Eve on the garden
to lower the punishment
no if you eat that fruit you will become like god
say you have a kid
you don’t like your kid to ply on the swimming poll
you say to him
dont ply on the swimming pool, if you do I will punish you with ice cream
i like it dad, I like ice cream
become like God?
I like it
cease to exist, I like it, I am suffering now.
half true
god is love
Yes but hide god is just
Again, you speak from that which you have no idea. Your observations aren't even close.
Hey, please do me the favor of pointing out WHEN I use the red herring that you claim I have "prepared".
And again, you missed the whole point. Feelings come from the soul, NOT the body. So all mention of unbelievers refers to their body, which will die again. But their souls will experience eternal shame and contempt.
I said:
"Lam 1:20 - “See, LORD, how distressed I am! I am in torment within, and in my heart I am disturbed, for I have been most rebellious. Outside, the sword bereaves; inside, there is only death.
Lam 2:11 - My eyes fail from weeping, I am in torment within ; my heart is poured out on the ground because my people are destroyed,
because children and infants faint in the streets of the city.
Proof that it is the soul that experiences torment."
So you believe that bodies suffer feelings? Really? Are you really that far gone??
In Lam 1:20 the words "I am in torment within". Do you think the writer was having a tummy ache or something? Get real.
He follows up that comment with "in my HEART I am disturbed". Now it's just 'heartburn' from a bad pizza or something?
The HEART always refers to the inner person, and NEVER the blood pump of the body. Check it out yourself.
Again, the resurrected MORTAL body will die again. A second time. Why won't you just acknowledge it?
I've never said that and you KNOW it. In fact, I have lambasted your idiotic use of "eternal life" to describe unbelievers in the LOF.
I even told you to stop using those words. That is a red herring, for which you are very well known. You have zero credibility.
You are the one admitting how maudlin your sentiments are. That's what drives your emotional view of things. What you tell me to do is what YOU should be doing.
I come to the Bible with no agenda to prove. I simply read what it says. And the Holy Spirit gives me discernment to understand.
9 Edom’s streams will be turned into pitch, her dust into burning sulfur; her land will become blazing pitch!
10 It will not be quenched night or day; its smoke will rise forever. From generation to generation it will lie desolate; no one will ever pass through it again.
OK, the verses are about the LAND of Edom. So what? Who cares? btw, has anyone ever "passed through it again"?
You are quite GUILTY of illegitimate totality transfer.
From: https://www.soundtradition.org/post/illegitimate-totality-transfer
"Basically, Illegitimate Totality Transfer takes every meaning of a word in Greek or Hebrew and applies it to a single use of that word. In technical circles, this is also called Expanded Semantic Field. In Linguistics studies, the researcher will discover that words have a variety of meanings which we call the Semantic Range."
No, I DON'T commit illegitimate totality transfer. I recognize the semantic RANGE of word meanings.
What is destroyed in the LOF would be the mortal physical body. Obviously.
I've asked if you agree the Bible says that unbelievers will be resurrected. Do you or don't you?
Hey, please do me the favor of pointing out WHEN I use the red herring that you claim I have "prepared".
And again, you missed the whole point. Feelings come from the soul, NOT the body. So all mention of unbelievers refers to their body, which will die again. But their souls will experience eternal shame and contempt.
I said:
"Lam 1:20 - “See, LORD, how distressed I am! I am in torment within, and in my heart I am disturbed, for I have been most rebellious. Outside, the sword bereaves; inside, there is only death.
Lam 2:11 - My eyes fail from weeping, I am in torment within ; my heart is poured out on the ground because my people are destroyed,
because children and infants faint in the streets of the city.
Proof that it is the soul that experiences torment."
So you believe that bodies suffer feelings? Really? Are you really that far gone??
In Lam 1:20 the words "I am in torment within". Do you think the writer was having a tummy ache or something? Get real.
He follows up that comment with "in my HEART I am disturbed". Now it's just 'heartburn' from a bad pizza or something?
The HEART always refers to the inner person, and NEVER the blood pump of the body. Check it out yourself.
Again, the resurrected MORTAL body will die again. A second time. Why won't you just acknowledge it?
I've never said that and you KNOW it. In fact, I have lambasted your idiotic use of "eternal life" to describe unbelievers in the LOF.
I even told you to stop using those words. That is a red herring, for which you are very well known. You have zero credibility.
You are the one admitting how maudlin your sentiments are. That's what drives your emotional view of things. What you tell me to do is what YOU should be doing.
I come to the Bible with no agenda to prove. I simply read what it says. And the Holy Spirit gives me discernment to understand.
9 Edom’s streams will be turned into pitch, her dust into burning sulfur; her land will become blazing pitch!
10 It will not be quenched night or day; its smoke will rise forever. From generation to generation it will lie desolate; no one will ever pass through it again.
OK, the verses are about the LAND of Edom. So what? Who cares? btw, has anyone ever "passed through it again"?
You are quite GUILTY of illegitimate totality transfer.
From: https://www.soundtradition.org/post/illegitimate-totality-transfer
"Basically, Illegitimate Totality Transfer takes every meaning of a word in Greek or Hebrew and applies it to a single use of that word. In technical circles, this is also called Expanded Semantic Field. In Linguistics studies, the researcher will discover that words have a variety of meanings which we call the Semantic Range."
No, I DON'T commit illegitimate totality transfer. I recognize the semantic RANGE of word meanings.
What is destroyed in the LOF would be the mortal physical body. Obviously.
I've asked if you agree the Bible says that unbelievers will be resurrected. Do you or don't you?
I don't create red herrings like you do.
I NEVER said or agreed that unbelievers LIVE in hell. And besides, it isn't "hell" they will reside in. It is the LOF, which is DIFFERENT than Hades, or hell. So get your words straightened out.
Unbelievers will be conscious of punishment, shame and contempt, eternally. You keep using the word "live" or "eternal life" for that which isn't either. Why do you keep up your charade?
I don't have options. I have the Word of God. And the Word of God SAYS that unbelievers will EXPERIENCE eternal punishment (Matt 25:46) and shame and contempt (Dan 12:2). And that those cast into the LOF will be tormented day and night for ever and ever (Rev 20:10).
You have two options: believe what the Bible says or make up your own maudlin theory.
I NEVER said or agreed that unbelievers LIVE in hell. And besides, it isn't "hell" they will reside in. It is the LOF, which is DIFFERENT than Hades, or hell. So get your words straightened out.
Unbelievers will be conscious of punishment, shame and contempt, eternally. You keep using the word "live" or "eternal life" for that which isn't either. Why do you keep up your charade?
I don't have options. I have the Word of God. And the Word of God SAYS that unbelievers will EXPERIENCE eternal punishment (Matt 25:46) and shame and contempt (Dan 12:2). And that those cast into the LOF will be tormented day and night for ever and ever (Rev 20:10).
You have two options: believe what the Bible says or make up your own maudlin theory.
Runningman said:
It doesn’t say eternal torment though. It says eternal punishment. Damnation means judgement. So the eternal damnation is an eternal judgment. That’s death… body and soul destroyed because that’s the other option to being saved.
The problem is that the other poster believes that ceasing to exist IS the punishment. But this REMOVES any awareness of the punishment, and in fact, would RELIEVE any kind of suffering, torment, shame, or contempt. Yet the Bible plainly says the unbelievers will experience eternal shame and contempt in Dan 12:12 and experience eternal punishment in Matt 25:46.
He thinks that a soul that ceases to exist is being punished. Ridiculous.
Punishment by definition is experienced. People do experience physical death. But since the LOF will completely burn up and destroy their mortal resurrected body, that experience will be short lived. But since the shame, contempt and punishment is said to be eternal, it will be experienced FOREVER, something Runner and kleronomos aren't willing to accept.
It doesn’t say eternal torment though. It says eternal punishment. Damnation means judgement. So the eternal damnation is an eternal judgment. That’s death… body and soul destroyed because that’s the other option to being saved.
The problem is that the other poster believes that ceasing to exist IS the punishment. But this REMOVES any awareness of the punishment, and in fact, would RELIEVE any kind of suffering, torment, shame, or contempt. Yet the Bible plainly says the unbelievers will experience eternal shame and contempt in Dan 12:12 and experience eternal punishment in Matt 25:46.
He thinks that a soul that ceases to exist is being punished. Ridiculous.
Punishment by definition is experienced. People do experience physical death. But since the LOF will completely burn up and destroy their mortal resurrected body, that experience will be short lived. But since the shame, contempt and punishment is said to be eternal, it will be experienced FOREVER, something Runner and kleronomos aren't willing to accept.
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FreeGrace2 said:
unbelievers will experience eternal shame and contempt in Dan 12:12
Please tell me what it says.
Here is what I read in the Bible:
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. ESV
What I see is a contrast to what will be experienced by believers and unbelievers.
The believers will experience everlasting life.
The unbelievers will experience shame and everlasting contempt.
I suppose you think the "everlasting contempt" is what the believers will have for the unbelievers.
But, how will that be possible? The "old things" will have passed away. How or why would believers have the memory of unbelievers?
unbelievers will experience eternal shame and contempt in Dan 12:12
Please tell me what it says.
Here is what I read in the Bible:
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. ESV
What I see is a contrast to what will be experienced by believers and unbelievers.
The believers will experience everlasting life.
The unbelievers will experience shame and everlasting contempt.
I suppose you think the "everlasting contempt" is what the believers will have for the unbelievers.
But, how will that be possible? The "old things" will have passed away. How or why would believers have the memory of unbelievers?
Daniel and Jesus both have the same message. 2 opposites, both eternal. There is no mention of anyone ceasing existence.
Daniel 12:2
New International Version
Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
New Living Translation
Many of those whose bodies lie dead and buried will rise up, some to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting disgrace.
English Standard Version
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Berean Study Bible
And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt.
King James Bible
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
New King James Version
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
New American Standard Bible
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.
NASB 1995
“Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.
NASB 1977
“And many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.
Amplified Bible
Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake (resurrect), these to everlasting life, but some to disgrace and everlasting contempt (abhorrence).
Christian Standard Bible
Many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to eternal life, and some to disgrace and eternal contempt.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to eternal life, and some to shame and eternal contempt.
American Standard Version
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And the many who sleep in the dust shall be awakened, these to the life of eternity, and those to loss and to the shame of their companions for eternity
Brenton Septuagint Translation
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproach and everlasting shame.
Contemporary English Version
Many of those who lie dead in the ground will rise from death. Some of them will be given eternal life, and others will receive nothing but eternal shame and disgrace.
Douay-Rheims Bible
And many of those that sleep in the dust of the earth, shall awake: some unto life everlasting, and others unto reproach, to see it always.
Good News Translation
Many of those who have already died will live again: some will enjoy eternal life, and some will suffer eternal disgrace.
International Standard Version
Many of those who are sleeping in the dust of the earth will awaken—some to life everlasting, and some to disgrace and everlasting contempt.
JPS Tanakh 1917
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproaches and everlasting abhorrence.
Literal Standard Version
And the multitude of those sleeping in the dust of the ground awake, some to continuous life, and some to reproaches—to continuous abhorrence.
New American Bible
Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake; Some to everlasting life, others to reproach and everlasting disgrace.
NET Bible
Many of those who sleep in the dusty ground will awake--some to everlasting life, and others to shame and everlasting abhorrence.
***
Mattew 25:46
New International Version
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
New Living Translation
“And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life.”
English Standard Version
And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Berean Study Bible
And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Berean Literal Bible
And these will go away into eternal punishment; but the righteous into eternal life."
King James Bible
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
New King James Version
And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
New American Standard Bible
These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
NASB 1995
“These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
NASB 1977
“And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Amplified Bible
Then these [unbelieving people] will go away into eternal (unending) punishment, but those who are righteous and in right standing with God [will go, by His remarkable grace] into eternal (unending) life.”
Christian Standard Bible
“And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Holman Christian Standard Bible
“And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
American Standard Version
And these shall go away into eternal punishment: but the righteous into eternal life.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And these will go into eternal torture, and the righteous into eternal life.”
Contemporary English Version
Then Jesus said, "Those people will be punished forever. But the ones who pleased God will have eternal life."
Douay-Rheims Bible
And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.
Good News Translation
These, then, will be sent off to eternal punishment, but the righteous will go to eternal life."
International Standard Version
These people will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life."
Literal Standard Version
And these will go away into continuous punishment, but the righteous into continuous life.”
New American Bible
And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
NET Bible
And these will depart into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
Daniel 12:2
New International Version
Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
New Living Translation
Many of those whose bodies lie dead and buried will rise up, some to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting disgrace.
English Standard Version
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Berean Study Bible
And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt.
King James Bible
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
New King James Version
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
New American Standard Bible
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.
NASB 1995
“Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.
NASB 1977
“And many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.
Amplified Bible
Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake (resurrect), these to everlasting life, but some to disgrace and everlasting contempt (abhorrence).
Christian Standard Bible
Many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to eternal life, and some to disgrace and eternal contempt.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to eternal life, and some to shame and eternal contempt.
American Standard Version
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And the many who sleep in the dust shall be awakened, these to the life of eternity, and those to loss and to the shame of their companions for eternity
Brenton Septuagint Translation
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproach and everlasting shame.
Contemporary English Version
Many of those who lie dead in the ground will rise from death. Some of them will be given eternal life, and others will receive nothing but eternal shame and disgrace.
Douay-Rheims Bible
And many of those that sleep in the dust of the earth, shall awake: some unto life everlasting, and others unto reproach, to see it always.
Good News Translation
Many of those who have already died will live again: some will enjoy eternal life, and some will suffer eternal disgrace.
International Standard Version
Many of those who are sleeping in the dust of the earth will awaken—some to life everlasting, and some to disgrace and everlasting contempt.
JPS Tanakh 1917
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproaches and everlasting abhorrence.
Literal Standard Version
And the multitude of those sleeping in the dust of the ground awake, some to continuous life, and some to reproaches—to continuous abhorrence.
New American Bible
Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake; Some to everlasting life, others to reproach and everlasting disgrace.
NET Bible
Many of those who sleep in the dusty ground will awake--some to everlasting life, and others to shame and everlasting abhorrence.
***
Mattew 25:46
New International Version
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
New Living Translation
“And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life.”
English Standard Version
And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Berean Study Bible
And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Berean Literal Bible
And these will go away into eternal punishment; but the righteous into eternal life."
King James Bible
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
New King James Version
And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
New American Standard Bible
These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
NASB 1995
“These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
NASB 1977
“And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Amplified Bible
Then these [unbelieving people] will go away into eternal (unending) punishment, but those who are righteous and in right standing with God [will go, by His remarkable grace] into eternal (unending) life.”
Christian Standard Bible
“And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Holman Christian Standard Bible
“And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
American Standard Version
And these shall go away into eternal punishment: but the righteous into eternal life.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And these will go into eternal torture, and the righteous into eternal life.”
Contemporary English Version
Then Jesus said, "Those people will be punished forever. But the ones who pleased God will have eternal life."
Douay-Rheims Bible
And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.
Good News Translation
These, then, will be sent off to eternal punishment, but the righteous will go to eternal life."
International Standard Version
These people will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life."
Literal Standard Version
And these will go away into continuous punishment, but the righteous into continuous life.”
New American Bible
And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
NET Bible
And these will depart into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
“To my knowledge, we only have time to decide while we physically life, wether accept Christ or not, not after die”
“who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick ( living ) and the dead.
For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.”
1 Peter 4:5-6 KJV
“For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened ( made alive ) by the Spirit:
by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.”
1 Peter 3:18-20 KJV
they had been dead since Noah’s day Jesus went and preached the gospel to all who had died before he came into the world
have you ever noticed this and how these would have had to accept the gospel ?
“and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
Matthew 27:52-53 KJV
they had to have been dead they were in the grave , and they had to hear the gospel because they rose from the dead
I’m just saying there’s a lot of possibilities and Gods ways don’t end when a persons body dies
“to deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh,
that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.”
1 Corinthians 5:5
remember Jesus went to preach to spirits in prison after his flesh died ?
“put to death in the flesh, but quickened ( made alive ) by the Spirit:
by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah”
oir flesh can’t be saved oir spirit can be saved we can clearly see Jesus did preach the gospel to the dead so why shouldn’t we consider the possibility that he still does preach To people who didn’t hear the gospel in life ?
“who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick ( living ) and the dead.
For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.”
1 Peter 4:5-6 KJV
“For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened ( made alive ) by the Spirit:
by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.”
1 Peter 3:18-20 KJV
they had been dead since Noah’s day Jesus went and preached the gospel to all who had died before he came into the world
have you ever noticed this and how these would have had to accept the gospel ?
“and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
Matthew 27:52-53 KJV
they had to have been dead they were in the grave , and they had to hear the gospel because they rose from the dead
I’m just saying there’s a lot of possibilities and Gods ways don’t end when a persons body dies
“to deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh,
that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.”
1 Corinthians 5:5
remember Jesus went to preach to spirits in prison after his flesh died ?
“put to death in the flesh, but quickened ( made alive ) by the Spirit:
by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah”
oir flesh can’t be saved oir spirit can be saved we can clearly see Jesus did preach the gospel to the dead so why shouldn’t we consider the possibility that he still does preach To people who didn’t hear the gospel in life ?
The verses you quoted said the feelings that they’ll have are in their heart. You used a red herring by intentionally misleading use that the feelings come from the soul, a doctrine not even supported by the Bible. Need I say more to any of what you said? Your pretense is false and you’ve been revealed.
FreeGrace2 said:
unbelievers will experience eternal shame and contempt in Dan 12:12
Please tell me what it says.
Here is what I read in the Bible:
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. ESV
What I see is a contrast to what will be experienced by believers and unbelievers.
The believers will experience everlasting life.
The unbelievers will experience shame and everlasting contempt.
I suppose you think the "everlasting contempt" is what the believers will have for the unbelievers.
But, how will that be possible? The "old things" will have passed away. How or why would believers have the memory of unbelievers?
Huh? What verse did you think I was referencing?
OK, this isn't hard to understand. Are shame and contempt experienced, or not? yes or no.
You're being a bit too picky. And you didn't answer my question.
unbelievers will experience eternal shame and contempt in Dan 12:12
Please tell me what it says.
Here is what I read in the Bible:
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. ESV
What I see is a contrast to what will be experienced by believers and unbelievers.
The believers will experience everlasting life.
The unbelievers will experience shame and everlasting contempt.
I suppose you think the "everlasting contempt" is what the believers will have for the unbelievers.
But, how will that be possible? The "old things" will have passed away. How or why would believers have the memory of unbelievers?
Huh? What verse did you think I was referencing?
OK, this isn't hard to understand. Are shame and contempt experienced, or not? yes or no.
You're being a bit too picky. And you didn't answer my question.
False.
Being conscious is a function caused by life. The components required for consciousness are the same components that make up a person: body, soul, and spirit. You’re saying they’ll have eternal conscious torment. Whether you realize it or not, you’re saying they live forever in hell. A total lie.
That’s not in the Bible. Are you done making things up yet?
The Word of God disagrees with you. Believe in Christ and get eternal life or don’t and perish. Jesus said the soul and body can be destroyed in hell because that’s the only alternative to being saved.
I’ll believe what the Bible says which is what I’ve been doing all along.
Being conscious is a function caused by life. The components required for consciousness are the same components that make up a person: body, soul, and spirit. You’re saying they’ll have eternal conscious torment. Whether you realize it or not, you’re saying they live forever in hell. A total lie.
That’s not in the Bible. Are you done making things up yet?
The Word of God disagrees with you. Believe in Christ and get eternal life or don’t and perish. Jesus said the soul and body can be destroyed in hell because that’s the only alternative to being saved.
I’ll believe what the Bible says which is what I’ve been doing all along.
The veres in Lamentations SAID "the heart".
Well then, just where are feelings experienced? In your right toe? This is beyond ridiculous.
The 2 verses in Lamentations specifically SAY where suffering is experienced: "within" and "in the heart".
That shouldn't be difficult to understand.
The fact that you actually challenge the idea that feelings from from the soul is just amazing. And I don't expect any answer from you anyway. You just ignore the questions that reveal your error.
Well then, just where are feelings experienced? In your right toe? This is beyond ridiculous.
The 2 verses in Lamentations specifically SAY where suffering is experienced: "within" and "in the heart".
That shouldn't be difficult to understand.
The fact that you actually challenge the idea that feelings from from the soul is just amazing. And I don't expect any answer from you anyway. You just ignore the questions that reveal your error.
Isaiah 66 says that those who are put to death will be an abhorrence to the righteous in the new heaven and new earth. That means the resurrection that “some” will awaken to is a resurrection that causes those the righteous to feel ashamed and contempt for their burning carcasses, at least initially.
Those bodies will be reduced to nothing both ashes. In the new heavens and earth only righteousness dwells.
In Revelation 21 God said there will be no more pain or crying. Do you believe God?
Those bodies will be reduced to nothing both ashes. In the new heavens and earth only righteousness dwells.
In Revelation 21 God said there will be no more pain or crying. Do you believe God?