Should you say, 'Homosexuality is a Sin.'

[The_Watchers_2017]

Imagine there is a man who lived an LBGT lifestyle, then repents, but still finds he could be attracted to other men. He just doesn't yield to it. He doesn't look with lust or give other parts of his body over to that sin.

So are you saying he is sinning because he can be attracted to other men (homosexuality?)

everyone has a thorn in their side that either enables their temptation or limitations. crucifying the flesh is a daily practice.

 

[CS1]

Imagine there is a man who lived an LBGT lifestyle, then repents, but still finds he could be attracted to other men. He just doesn't yield to it. He doesn't look with lust or give other parts of his body over to that sin.

So are you saying he is sinning because he can be attracted to other men (homosexuality?)

This is a good question you ask.. The answer is no.

Hebrew 4:25


For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.

News Flash, being tempted is not a sin but a suggestion to sin. The power of the suggestion is only as good ones lust draws them into it.

James 1:14-15



But each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.



If you have been set free, you can not be dragged away.
You are a willful partispant. Only a slave to sin must do what the temptation suggests. We have power


2Cor 10:4-5

4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, 5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,

Live in faith and victory, not excuses and compromise. Repent and allow God to deal with it. He will. God will help you now, or you can have him deal with then. Christians have a choice; sinners are enslaved, needing to be set free.

 

[CS1]

Is what the Bible calls Sodomy a temptation that's common?
Do any of you guys see a male model on the package of underwear when shopping and lust after that?

anyone who lusts after a PK of draws has a serious issue.

 

[CS1]

everyone has a thorn in their side that either enables their temptation or limitations. crucifying the flesh is a daily practice.

does the bible say all have a throne in the flesh, or does it say the lord placed one on Paul because of the Revelation given to him by Jesus?

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

does the bible say all have a throne in the flesh, or does it say the lord placed one on Paul because of the Revelation given to him by Jesus?

we know only about Paul, but then again, none of the other Disciples went too deep into their personal struggles with sin. Paul is unique that way even calling himself the chief of sinners. he reminds me of David who just blurted his personal and Holy Spirit Inspired thoughts. David complained, was angered, asked God to murder his enemies, wrote about his feelings and sufferings. one would think David had a thorn in his side. Moses the same way. Always complaining to God. claiming he was inept to speak, not a leader, pick someone else to do the job. one would think he also had a thorn in his side.

but Paul is the only one we read about making such a claim.

i know i feel like i have a thorn in my side, but it could be explained in other ways i suppose.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

anyone who lusts after a PK of draws has a serious issue.

I agree and
That's my point.
I doubt if the normal average guy ( not gals), has a burning desire for some male model on a billboard or package of fruit of the looms. However, IF they were a fruit of the looms, then that would be less common, or Uncommon.
I know that you read Romans 1.
Most here probably have, but might not have considered that with chapter 10 of I Corinthians.

"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man"

Romans talks about those who didn't even want to think about God. "Retain God in their minds"...
What did He do?
"Turn them over to a reprobate mind."...

Typically this is what I believe happens.
Those who don't want anything to do with the true God of the Bible as He is accurately presented, reject Him.
Eventually after so many offers, He gives up on them. That's basically what the term reprobate means in many contexts.

That temptation which is not common to man becomes a burning desire for those who reject conscience and the restraining barriers to things like beastiality, mutilation, sodomy and such sins.

 

[Adstar]

How is your answer 'yes' to my question. There are probably some women who walk by, and you just aren't going to look at them with lust. If you have a grandmother whose aged, or someone else's grandmother. There are women you just aren't going to be attracted to.

If you do not lust over a passing person then you have not lusted.. so therefore you have not sinned.. This is very simple, but your reply seems to indicate that you are resisting the simplicity of my answer..

But lets say a woman with supermodel good looks walks by in a bikini. She is attractive to you. Does that mean you looked at her with lust?

If i lusted over her then i am guilty of lusting over her,, if not then i am not guilty of that sin.. This is so simple it seems weird to me that i have to attempt to clarity this any more..

If any man walks by, I am not going to be attracted to him. If he's young, if he's muscular. They don't appeal to me. I suspect that is the case with most men. But some men might find them attractive, but they can choose not to look with lust.

So ??? If you lust over another person then you are guilty of that sin if not then you are not guilty.. What does it matter what you ""like"" and what you don't ""like"" That is irrelevant..

The men who find other men attractive are 'homosexual' according to how the term is used. Do you think their propensity to be attractive is looking with lust.

If they are sexually attracted to other men then they will have sexual thoughts about them from time to time and therefore they will have lusted after another man and therefore they are guilty of the sin..

If a pretty girl walks by, did you automatically lust after her, whether you wanted to or not?

I lusted when i lusted and i did not lust when i did not lust.. How basic and simple can i state things clearly???

What if the woman is not only pretty, but someone who could appeal to your desires, from a physical perspective? If she walks in the room, do you have no choice.... you just lusted? Or can you choose not to look with lust?

You keep repeating yourself asking the same question but only applying it from different angels.. Again if one lusts after a woman no matter what the reason is that she appeals to them then they are guilty of lusting after a woman..

I Corinthians 10 says that with every temptation there is a way of escape, 'that ye may be able to bear it.' Jesus said that He that commits sin is the servant of sin. Paul says do not yield your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin. Peter quotes the Old Testament, "Be ye holy, for I am holy."

Yes we should try our best to flee sin and if we are lusting over someone we should cease focusing on them and divert our minds.. A good idea is to start talking with God about it.. That is a good way to take ones mind off another person..

Some Christians believe that as sin reigned unto death, grace reigns through righteousness. (Romans 5:21.

It seems like you have this attitude that every Christian is just going to sin and it doesn't matter that much because they can be forgiven. Is that an accurate understanding?

No... Sin is sin and is Bad and we should do our best to fight the good fight against ourselves by resisting / fleeing sin as much as we can..

BUT we are going to sin in this life no matter how much we fight the good fight.. That's why salvation is not based on our success in living up to the perfect standards of the LORD.. Salvation is based on us believing Jesus and trusting in the Atonement He secured for our forgiveness..

But again lots of people seem to be focused on the belief that they have to attain perfection to attain a sinlessness in the flesh state of being to have eternity with God.. And again that works based mindset seems to keep overcoming a lot of peoples Faith in the Atonement of the LORD Jesus..

 

[Hazelelponi]

I am a senior, and retired (involuntarily when covid struck) fairly immediately after turning 65.
I had also just received a cancer diagnosis (forthcoming treatments and surgery etc being a
reason for laying me off after 38 years with the company), and though I am at present cancer-
free, have had a 3rd surgery just recently booked for later this month, and as recently as a month
ago was hospitalized a few days due to complications. I realize covid has wreaked much havoc
and tragedy in many people's lives, but for me the timing and how everything has worked out
has been nothing short of miraculous, for which I give God all the credit, including shielding
my heart and mind from worry. Not getting out as much due to covid has definitely been an
impediment, and I do feel the results of that for sure, as it becomes more difficult to motivate myself.
I understand that some people experience this as a result of aging as well, so there is likely overlap.

I am not much of one given to flowery speech in prose, though I must say I have enjoyed
witnessing you opening up and sharing more here... like a flower blossoming in the sun!

I am sorry to hear you are disabled, and pray God graces you and yours strength to unfalteringly endure with peace of mind.

I'll put you on my prayer list.

So very sorry to hear about the cancer but happy to hear your now in remission..

 

[Magenta]

I'll put you on my prayer list.

So very sorry to hear about the cancer but happy to hear your now in remission..

Thank you

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

I'm sorry to read you suffered that experience.

Did she have a job still after you regained consciousness?

Doc was probably just happy that I didn't bring a suit. I've noticed that pretty blonde gals get out of traffic tickets and don't get fired as easily as others if they know how to cry and to bat their eyelashes at the right times.

I'd known about Ketamine as a ”party drug'' for years. I think I'll always be surprised at learning the extent to which people will go to harm themselves.
Resorting to cat tranquilizer though seems to be a subconscious intention to end their life.
How do you party while tranquilized?🥴

Good question. With so many drugs on the street and through the big Rx market, I have no idea why they'd pick the high risk cat tranq over their other drugs. Maybe they think they have 9 lives too?
I don't know anything about the modern dope that's common now. What I read about tranquilizers bus that they are shared with victims, it will knock them out so they can be taken advantage of.

It's curious how in over 2000 years since Jesus to date our world is growing worse and people more and more depraved.

 

[presidente]

If you do not lust over a passing person then you have not lusted.. so therefore you have not sinned.. This is very simple, but your reply seems to indicate that you are resisting the simplicity of my answer..

If homosexuality is the ability to be attracted to the same sex, then homosexuality is not a sin. If one yields to it and looks with lust or yields the members of one's body to sin in some other way, then that's sin. That's my point.

Saying 'homosexuality is a sin' can confuse people who have that problem and convey the wrong message.

 

[Evmur]

I've heard preachers preach on the sin of homosexuality. Some might even say homosexuals are going to Hell, gays are going to Hell, lesbians are going to Hell, etc.

When I grew up, the way 'homosexual', 'gay', etc. was used was to refer to people who did 'gay stuff'-- meaning sexual acts. So I thought.

It turns out based on the original meaning of the word and the way it is used in academia, a homosexual is someone attracted to the same sex. Now suppose you are a young person and you've never done any 'gay stuff', but you found yourself attracted to the same sex. Then you go to church, and you hear someone preach that if you have same-sex attraction, you are a sinner and you are going to Hell.

The sins that homosexuals commit that are related to homosexuality are things like actually performing same-sex sexual acts, and looking with lust. Having attraction for the same sex is a bad thing to have to deal with. But can't someone who struggles with this still be a Christian and just resist temptation?

Many of us men are attracted to beautiful women. Especially when we are/were young, a beautiful scantily clad woman might be a bit of an eye magnet for the flesh, but you can choose to avert your eyes and discipline your mind and not sin. There are ads on magazines and various other type of media. There is a difference between what we find attractive and the acts we commit. If a woman is attractive to a man, that doesn't mean he has committed fornication or adultery with her or that he has looked at her with lust.

And if a man struggles with same-sex attraction, that doesn't mean he constantly goes around sinning. At least with the Gen-Y and Gen-Z generations, and probably most of X now, and in academia, and certainly with LGBTI folks, in the US, 'gay', 'homosexual', and 'lesbian' refer to 'orientation'-- not what they do with their sex lives. Some Fundamentalists preachers who say 'Homosexuals are going to Hell' do no realize that what they are saying from the perspective of the listener is if you find yourself attracted to the same sex, even if you don't act on it, you are going to Hell. It sounds rather hopeless.

We do need to combat the ideas associated with 'orientation' that these types of inclinations or lusts are permanent problems. LBGT folks think of their sexual inclinations and propensities to be attracted as a big part of their identity. But the Bible tells Christians, to "reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Romans 6:11.)

Christian men who are attracted to women do not introduce themselves as "I am a Christian who has the propensity to fornicate with women", and so Christian men who struggle with same-sex attraction should not say, "I am a gay Christian." We should reckon ourselves dead to sin, and alive to God, and "make no provision for the flesh to fulfill the lusts thereof."

Some people with same-sex attraction who become Christians may have to constantly struggle against it and overcome it for years, like some men have to tame their eyes. Others may be delivered from the temptation and not worry about it. Marriage between a man and a woman is a Biblical remedy for decreasing the propensity to be tempted by sexual lust.

You talking as though there was no cross, no soul cleansing power in Christ's blood, no new heart to be received, no new birth, no new man or woman. No indwelling power of the Holy Spirit. No inner life of Christ.

This salvation is for homosexuals.

What if they backslide after being saved? They should be put out of the church until they repent.

I never preach on homosexuality, homosexuality has nothing whatever to do with the church, it is a social issue. We follow the Lord, we obey His teachings. Let the world do what they please.

 

[CS1]

If homosexuality is the ability to be attracted to the same sex, then homosexuality is not a sin. If one yields to it and looks with lust or yields the members of one's body to sin in some other way, then that's sin. That's my point.

Saying 'homosexuality is a sin' can confuse people who have that problem and convey the wrong message.

I think that is watering down the term somewhat Homosexual today is very much moved from the Homo- man sexual- relations of the same kind. That is like saying the word "gay" means happy today primally. The sexual perversion produces change from normal to abnormal just like they did to the word gay, Marriage, and now what is a man and woman.

it is sin because Homosexuality is not simply an attraction anymore. It is a worldly sexual preference that God hates.

 

[presidente]

You talking as though there was no cross, no soul cleansing power in Christ's blood, no new heart to be received, no new birth, no new man or woman. No indwelling power of the Holy Spirit. No inner life of Christ.

Where do you get that? If a homosexual comes to Christ, it is the power of God that enables him to overcome temptation toward sexual lust. If he is free from the appeal of that type of temptation altogether by the power of Christ, it is by the power of Christ that he is free.

But preachers who say 'homosexuality is a sin' confuse those who can be tempted in this way, even if they aren't yielding to it.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

This threads gotten a little heavy.

Speaking of sedatives and such, on the brighter side...
Time for a commercial from our sponsor...

 

[Adstar]

If homosexuality is the ability to be attracted to the same sex, then homosexuality is not a sin. If one yields to it and looks with lust or yields the members of one's body to sin in some other way, then that's sin. That's my point.

Saying 'homosexuality is a sin' can confuse people who have that problem and convey the wrong message.

Well yes.. But a homosexual cannot go through their life never thinking about ( lusting) about sex with other men... So they are going to sin.. So they need to acknowledge that as sin, believe Jesus and trust in the atonement of the LORD Jesus..

People advocating for it to no longer be considered sin are actually damning to the eternal lake of fire those who are guilty of this sin.. Because a person who believes they have not sinned will never accept the gift of forgiveness for it... Because they have been convinced it is not sin, thus not needing to be Atoned for..

 

[John146]

If homosexuality is the ability to be attracted to the same sex, then homosexuality is not a sin. If one yields to it and looks with lust or yields the members of one's body to sin in some other way, then that's sin. That's my point.

Saying 'homosexuality is a sin' can confuse people who have that problem and convey the wrong message.

It’s confusing because the word homosexuality is not a biblical term. If we stick with the bible, there will be no confusion.

 

[Runningman]

I've heard preachers preach on the sin of homosexuality. Some might even say homosexuals are going to Hell, gays are going to Hell, lesbians are going to Hell, etc.

When I grew up, the way 'homosexual', 'gay', etc. was used was to refer to people who did 'gay stuff'-- meaning sexual acts. So I thought.

It turns out based on the original meaning of the word and the way it is used in academia, a homosexual is someone attracted to the same sex. Now suppose you are a young person and you've never done any 'gay stuff', but you found yourself attracted to the same sex. Then you go to church, and you hear someone preach that if you have same-sex attraction, you are a sinner and you are going to Hell.

The sins that homosexuals commit that are related to homosexuality are things like actually performing same-sex sexual acts, and looking with lust. Having attraction for the same sex is a bad thing to have to deal with. But can't someone who struggles with this still be a Christian and just resist temptation?

Many of us men are attracted to beautiful women. Especially when we are/were young, a beautiful scantily clad woman might be a bit of an eye magnet for the flesh, but you can choose to avert your eyes and discipline your mind and not sin. There are ads on magazines and various other type of media. There is a difference between what we find attractive and the acts we commit. If a woman is attractive to a man, that doesn't mean he has committed fornication or adultery with her or that he has looked at her with lust.

And if a man struggles with same-sex attraction, that doesn't mean he constantly goes around sinning. At least with the Gen-Y and Gen-Z generations, and probably most of X now, and in academia, and certainly with LGBTI folks, in the US, 'gay', 'homosexual', and 'lesbian' refer to 'orientation'-- not what they do with their sex lives. Some Fundamentalists preachers who say 'Homosexuals are going to Hell' do no realize that what they are saying from the perspective of the listener is if you find yourself attracted to the same sex, even if you don't act on it, you are going to Hell. It sounds rather hopeless.

We do need to combat the ideas associated with 'orientation' that these types of inclinations or lusts are permanent problems. LBGT folks think of their sexual inclinations and propensities to be attracted as a big part of their identity. But the Bible tells Christians, to "reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Romans 6:11.)

Christian men who are attracted to women do not introduce themselves as "I am a Christian who has the propensity to fornicate with women", and so Christian men who struggle with same-sex attraction should not say, "I am a gay Christian." We should reckon ourselves dead to sin, and alive to God, and "make no provision for the flesh to fulfill the lusts thereof."

Some people with same-sex attraction who become Christians may have to constantly struggle against it and overcome it for years, like some men have to tame their eyes. Others may be delivered from the temptation and not worry about it. Marriage between a man and a woman is a Biblical remedy for decreasing the propensity to be tempted by sexual lust.

I would say that the sin of homosexuality is much more nuanced than when a man looks at, or lies with, a woman with lust, they aren't equal or congruent.

Leviticus 20:13
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

When a man lies with a woman it isn’t an abomination. When a man lies with a man it’s an abomination. Homosexuality is actually a worse sin than heterosexual fornication or adultery.

I do think that specific sins shouldn’t be placed on a pedestal and warned about when it’s that all sin is a problem. I think church congregations who do that are playing into the political and social landscape of their society.

 

[BroTan]

So Paul is going through the struggles of sin and holding fast to the law (Commandments).



Let's take a look at what Paul is going through here in Romans 7: 12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. So Paul is saying that good sin he though became bad and unfruitful, killing the old man he was.

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. Paul is saying his mind is in the right place, but this flesh is a problem.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. In another words it's hard doing the right things sometimes.

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Because the law is what keeping me in check.

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. Paul is saying even though I'm not doing wrong, sin is still in my mind.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

This is a part of the struggle we go through, but nevertheless, in judgment each one of us will give account for our own salvation. Therefore, we must not let anyone lead us down the wrong path, but should verify all of our teaching with the holy bible. YOUR SALVATION IS AT STAKE! "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12). Jesus warned us that the road to salvation is straight and narrow and that only a few of us will find it. Many are traveling down the wrong road, which leads to destruction. This is because many of us have heard about salvation but few of us want to do what is necessary to get salvation (many are called but few are chosen). (Matthew 7:13, 14)

 

[CS1]

Well yes.. But a homosexual cannot go through their life never thinking about ( lusting) about sex with other men... So they are going to sin.. So they need to acknowledge that as sin, believe Jesus and trust in the atonement of the LORD Jesus..

People advocating for it to no longer be considered sin are actually damning to the eternal lake of fire those who are guilty of this sin.. Because a person who believes they have not sinned will never accept the gift of forgiveness for it... Because they have been convinced it is not sin, thus not needing to be Atoned for..

that is not true Jesus can set them free