CHRIST THE CHOSEN ONE, THE ELECT OF THE FATHER

[Pilgrimshope]

Amen brother, amen!

amen paul , Peter , John , James explain everything in thier letters sent to the churches that are still circulating among us today, we just learn and believe and let our mind be filled up with what God said

I wish more of us were looking like you are at “the message in the scriptures “ rather than each scripture seperately big chunks of the epistles , are the revelation we need

“how that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; that the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:


whereof I ( Paul ) was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; and to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

to the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, according to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, that he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; and to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭3:3-11, 14-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There’s so much understanding for us to start change how we think about God in big sections of the apostles letters and it’s meant so we can understand the gospel , know Gods Will for us and learn from Jesus to discern between good and evil as we walk in his grace and forebearance toward us imperfect people who he is calling to repentance and salvation by the gospel out of this world and into his everlasting kingdom

“Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews:

but now is my kingdom not from hence. ( he’s standing in Jerusalem )

Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:36-37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s where Abraham’s covenant leads us

 

[Aaron56]

Philippians 2:5-11 "5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. 9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

It is in Christ that we live, move and have our very being.

 

[DavidTree]

Anytime, you try to remove national Israel from the Covenant - both the Abrahamic and Davidic and New - and make the Church, the new Israel....

THIS IS REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY. The promises to Israel, in a physical Kingdom, will be done. Why! Because God made an irrevocable, unilateral and unconditional promise to the forefathers.

Ezekiel 36:22-28 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord Jehovah: I do not this for your sake, O house of Israel, but for my holy name, which ye have profaned among the nations, whither ye went. And I will sanctify my great name, which hath been profaned among the nations, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the nations shall know that I am Jehovah, saith the Lord Jehovah, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. For I will take you from among the nations, and gather you out of all the countries, and will bring you into your own land. And I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep mine ordinances, and do them. And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

The Apostle Paul also said this:

Romans 11:25-29 For I would not, brethren, have you ignorant of this mystery, lest ye be wise in your own conceits, that a hardening in part hath befallen Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in; and so all Israel shall be saved: even as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer; He shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: And this is my covenant unto them, When I shall take away their sins. As touching the gospel, they are enemies for your sake: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sake. For the gifts and the calling of God are not repented of.

There is only One Israel of God.
The earthbound nation of Israel is lost in sin just as every other earthbound nation.

For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. 15For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
16For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and [d]fatness of the olive tree, 18do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
19You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, [e]goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

ONLY when God grafts them back into the ONE TREE of LIFE = Jew and Gentile = ONE TREE = ONE ISRAEL of God

 

[awelight]

False. Replacement Theology simply states that Israel failed to fulfill their call, so God came up with an alternate plan and created the church. THIS IS TOTALLY FALSE.

You must understand that when the days approached to close the old covenant, those who were under the law were also about to be judged. When the temple came down in AD 70, all those who were under the law were also judged (composed of 99.0% of Israel). After that, all that remained was the remnant of Israel that had bowed the knee to Jesus Christ. This remnant was 100% Jewish and formed the early congregation of Christ. The new covenant community of believers is God's idea which began before the world when the Lamb was slain in God's heart (Rev. 13:8b).

Did John the Baptist begin with "replacement theology" when he announced the arrival of the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world? (Jn 1:29, 36). No, he was announcing what had been hidden from the foundation of the world that would deliver man from sin and death, and crown him with righteousness through faith in the Messiah.

Do you know why none of the disciples and Jews who heard the Lord speaking about building His church were not surprised, and no one asked Him what He meant by "church"? I tell you why, because He was speaking about something they all understood. He was simply speaking His congregation (sheep of His pasture) as opposed to the old congregation of Israel that belonged to the Law of commandments. The new congregation came out of the womb of old Israel because the old was fast becoming obsolete and ready to disappear (Heb. 8:13)-- while the new was NEW IN KIND.

One may say that the new congregation belonged to Christ while the old congregation was yoked to the law and ready to be judged as ineffective and contrary to God's edicts (Mat. 23:34-38, 24:2; Luke 19:41-44; 1Thes. 2:14-16, etc.).


Acts 20:28 (NAS20) "Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you 1overseers, to shepherd the church (congregation) of God which He purchased with His own blood."

The noun "church" (Ekklesia in Greek) simply means '" CALLED OUT." Those who have believed in the Lord have been "called out" of the world's mindset, while those who don't belong to Christ, remain as part of this world and continue to be dead in their sins and trespasses even while they are simply existing (Eph. 2:1).

Your concept of "Replacement Theology" appears to have no point of reference here because it doesn't exist.

The promises to Israel and the forefathers, was to inherit the land promised to THEM, to be ruled over by the Messiah, to receive peace and safety. THEY have never yet, received these things. But they will, when Christ returns and establishes His physical Kingdom on earth. In the land promised to the ethnic Jews. Reigning from Jerusalem over all the nations for a thousand years.

You seem to be under the impression, that the ethnic Jews, who made up the beginning of the Church, were expecting the Church and not the coming Kingdom. This cannot be supported Biblically. Please stay with me a moment longer.

Historically, according to many sources, the ethnic Jew of Christ's ministry on earth, were expecting a Millennial Kingdom. They read and interpreted the Old Testament Prophecies as literal. Starting with Augustine, the interpretation became more spiritual. However, before 325AD - the Nicaea meeting - the early Church held to a Millennial and physical view of the Kingdom.

This then was the view of the early Apostles as taught by Jesus Christ. I give to you, the single, irrefutable verses of Scripture that prove this beyond a shadow of doubt:

FIRST

Acts 1:3 to whom he also showed himself alive after his passion by many proofs, appearing unto them by the space of forty days, and speaking the things concerning the kingdom of God:

So this tells us, that Jesus Christ was seen over a period of forty days and that He was teaching matters concerning the Kingdom of God. You would have us to believe - then - Christ was teaching about how Israel forfeited the Covenant promises because of their unbelief and rejection of God's Holy Son. Therefore, these promises, were given to the Church. This was NOT the understanding of the Apostles.

Continuation:

Acts 1:6 They therefore, when they were come together, asked him, saying, Lord, dost thou at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?
Acts 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know times or seasons, which the Father hath set within His own authority.

This question, by the Apostles, proves they were expecting the restoration of the physical Kingdom. Not only that, they were expecting this Kingdom to be given to Israel. This proves, they were expecting the physical appearance of the Kingdom and it was not just a spiritual kingdom. It also proves, they knew nothing about the Church being the new kingdom or replacing the covenant promises, given to Israel.

Perhaps, they misunderstood. God forbid! But let's explore this possibility.

If indeed they had misunderstood, then this was the perfect opportunity for out Lord to have corrected them. He probably would have said: Have I been with you so long and you still do not understand? How could you be so dense? But what do we read in His reply? The Lord had no problem with the question, as to it's Kingdom intent, however, He tells them it is not for them to know the times, which are in His Father's Authority - only.

So if one wishes to pursue this idea that the Kingdom has been given to the Church - they must be honest with the Scriptures and give proper interpretation and thus, explanation for what was asked and answered in Acts 1:6 & 7. Trying to explain it away, with other Scriptures, is not a good way to study and come to the Truth. Not saying you would do this.

 

[awelight]

There is only One Israel of God.
The earthbound nation of Israel is lost in sin just as every other earthbound nation.

For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. 15For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
16For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and [d]fatness of the olive tree, 18do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
19You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, [e]goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

ONLY when God grafts them back into the ONE TREE of LIFE = Jew and Gentile = ONE TREE = ONE ISRAEL of God

I am not sure, if I understood, your full intent, in this post David.

As touching Salvation, I would agree with your final statement. One tree. (But note that verse 24, calls it their "own" tree.). This one tree has Jesus Christ as it's root. Branches were broken of so that the Gentiles might be grafted in. Therefore, One tree - Jew and Gentile - which will both be in the one Kingdom.

This physical Kingdom, for a Millennium, will be the fulfillment of the Old Testament Covenants, given to the ethnic Jewish people. Both Jew and Gentile will populate this Kingdom. After which, the whole thing will go into the eternal state - A new heaven and a new earth.

The Covenant of Genesis 15:17-21, along with the Davidic Covenant, must be fulfilled literally. It cannot be otherwise or we make God out to be a liar and one whom breaks Unconditional and Unilateral Covenants. May it never be! Remember this and consider, please.

Gen 15:17-21 And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold, a smoking furnace, and a flaming torch that passed between these pieces. In that day Jehovah made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates: the Kenite, and the Kenizzite, and the Kadmonite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, and the Rephaim, and the Amorite, and the Canaanite, and the Girgashite, and the Jebusite.

Note that a flaming torch passed through the pieces - this is a Theophany, representing God sealing the Covenant. No man took part in it nor could they. It is Unilaterally and unconditionally binding upon God. It has not yet been fulfilled.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The promises to Israel and the forefathers, was to inherit the land promised to THEM, to be ruled over by the Messiah, to receive peace and safety. THEY have never yet, received these things. But they will, when Christ returns and establishes His physical Kingdom on earth. In the land promised to the ethnic Jews. Reigning from Jerusalem over all the nations for a thousand years.

You seem to be under the impression, that the ethnic Jews, who made up the beginning of the Church, were expecting the Church and not the coming Kingdom. This cannot be supported Biblically. Please stay with me a moment longer.

Historically, according to many sources, the ethnic Jew of Christ's ministry on earth, were expecting a Millennial Kingdom. They read and interpreted the Old Testament Prophecies as literal. Starting with Augustine, the interpretation became more spiritual. However, before 325AD - the Nicaea meeting - the early Church held to a Millennial and physical view of the Kingdom.

This then was the view of the early Apostles as taught by Jesus Christ. I give to you, the single, irrefutable verses of Scripture that prove this beyond a shadow of doubt:

FIRST

Acts 1:3 to whom he also showed himself alive after his passion by many proofs, appearing unto them by the space of forty days, and speaking the things concerning the kingdom of God:

So this tells us, that Jesus Christ was seen over a period of forty days and that He was teaching matters concerning the Kingdom of God. You would have us to believe - then - Christ was teaching about how Israel forfeited the Covenant promises because of their unbelief and rejection of God's Holy Son. Therefore, these promises, were given to the Church. This was NOT the understanding of the Apostles.

Continuation:

Acts 1:6 They therefore, when they were come together, asked him, saying, Lord, dost thou at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?
Acts 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know times or seasons, which the Father hath set within His own authority.

This question, by the Apostles, proves they were expecting the restoration of the physical Kingdom. Not only that, they were expecting this Kingdom to be given to Israel. This proves, they were expecting the physical appearance of the Kingdom and it was not just a spiritual kingdom. It also proves, they knew nothing about the Church being the new kingdom or replacing the covenant promises, given to Israel.

Perhaps, they misunderstood. God forbid! But let's explore this possibility.

If indeed they had misunderstood, then this was the perfect opportunity for out Lord to have corrected them. He probably would have said: Have I been with you so long and you still do not understand? How could you be so dense? But what do we read in His reply? The Lord had no problem with the question, as to it's Kingdom intent, however, He tells them it is not for them to know the times, which are in His Father's Authority - only.

So if one wishes to pursue this idea that the Kingdom has been given to the Church - they must be honest with the Scriptures and give proper interpretation and thus, explanation for what was asked and answered in Acts 1:6 & 7. Trying to explain it away, with other Scriptures, is not a good way to study and come to the Truth. Not saying you would do this.

“The promises to Israel and the forefathers, was to inherit the land promised to THEM, to be ruled over by the Messiah, to receive peace and safety. THEY have never yet, received these things.”

“And I will send the sword, the famine, and the pestilence, among them, till they be consumed from off the land that I gave unto them and to their fathers.”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭24:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬


The messiah came preaching salvstion and they rejected accused and crucified him

“Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country: and when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it. And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.

Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.

But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.

When the Lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, The same is become the head of the corner: This is the Lord's doing, And it is marvellous in our eyes?

Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭21:33-43‬

“Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭23:34-38 KJV‬‬

“Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.”
‭‭John‬ ‭4:21, 23-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:

The LORD shall send upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken me.

The LORD shall make the pestilence cleave unto thee, until he have consumed thee from off the land, whither thou goest to possess it. The LORD shall make the rain of thy land powder and dust: from heaven shall it come down upon thee, until thou be destroyed.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭28:15, 20-21, 24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“I will utterly consume all things from off the land, saith the LORD.”
‭‭Zephaniah‬ ‭1:2‬ ‭

“and then the LORD's wrath be kindled against you, and he shut up the heaven, that there be no rain, and that the land yield not her fruit; and lest ye perish quickly from off the good land which the LORD giveth you.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭11:17‬ ‭

The old testsment is filled with those warnings if they broke the covenant it was a blessing I my if they obeyed when they entered the land , and a curse if they defiled the land with false worship of false gods it was a curse because they did that again and again finally they killed the messiah who came to save them

They have to repent and believe the gospel to be saved from the curse of the old covenant bekng broken the law became of effect As soon they crossed over Jordan into the promised land

“Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse; a blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day: and a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known. And it shall come to pass, when the LORD thy God hath brought thee in unto the land whither thou goest to possess it, that thou shalt put the blessing upon mount Gerizim, and the curse upon mount Ebal.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭11:26-29‬ ‭

they chose the curses

 

[kaylagrl]

If I may, I think that when we speak about the elect, we should consider that Christ is the One chosen before the foundation of the world to sit on the throne of David as the final Lord and King of Israel (Acts 2:36)

Since Christ, the Lord is the direct descendant of David the king and was prophesied that He would sit on his throne and reign forever, we should think that when we speak about the elect, we should consider the Lord first.

Luke 1:32-33 "He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David, and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end."

1 Peter 1:20 "He was chosen before the creation of the world but was revealed in these last times for your sake." (NIV). At the same token, all those who have joined themselves to Him are also heirs of God and joint heirs with Jesus Christ (Ro. 8:17) which in turn makes them part of the elect,

Ephesians 1:4 "Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love, He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved."

Eph. 2:10 "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them."

It is my contention then that Christ is the elect of the Father, who became the last true Israelite, giving them Israel one last chance to continue to be chosen providing they chose Jesus as their King and the rightful and final descendant of David.

Jesus is, in fact, the last true Israelite who was the only one who pleased the Father completely (Mat. 3:17, 12:18, 17:5, Mark 1:11, Luke 3:22, Jn 5:19, 30 and 2 Pe 1:17). Jesus did it all that was in the Father’s heart.

But with the nation of Israel, He was not pleased with at all (1 Cor. 10:5) because they continually strayed from Him and went after other gods (Amos 5:25-26, Acts 7:39)

Jesus is the true Israel and God’s only true representative because He retraced the steps that Israel took and completed what Israel never did,

Exo. 4:22 "Then you shall say to Pharaoh, 'Thus says the LORD, "Israel is My son, My firstborn."

Matthew 2:15 He remained there until the death of Herod. This was to fulfill what had been spoken by the Lord through the prophet: "OUT OF EGYPT I CALLED MY SON." (NAU)

NAS95 Numbers 32:13 "So the LORD'S anger burned against Israel, and He made them wander in the wilderness forty years, until the entire generation of those who had done evil in the sight of the LORD was destroyed."

Mark 1:13 "And He was in the wilderness forty days being tempted by Satan; and He was with the wild beasts, and the angels were ministering to Him."

When the Lord went to the cross, He went for us and as our covenant representative (He took our place). When He died, we died with Him (Col 2:20, 3:3), when He resurrected from the dead, we resurrected with Him (Ro. 6:4-5) because we are born again (1 Pe 1:3, 23), and finally, when He ascended to the heavens, He took us with Him (in our spirits we are joined to the Spirit of Christ) to reign with Him in heavenly places, or a place of authority (Eph 2:6).

If that is the case and since the bible tells us that there is no longer Jew or Gentile, male or female, but rather we are all one in Christ Jesus (Gal 3:28), why do we go back to kindergarten school and try to maintain our "playing blocks" and assert that this present, political, and sinful nation is still God’s chosen?

When was the last time that God spoke to Israel? Hasn’t God spoken for the last time in His Son? (Heb 1:2). Hasn’t God called out a people (including Jews) to be part of His bride? Isn’t Jesus the head of the new covenant congregation that is connected to the old through the cross? Wouldn’t any thinking believer state that anyone who is outside of the body of the Messiah (Christ) does not belong to Him? (Ro. 8:9b)

The church is the B-O-D-Y of God the Son, who is the Messiah and the King of all creation, (Eph 1:23, 4:4-6, 5:30; Col 1:24)

In conclusion, God always had one people of faith and that’s the people He has always dealt with. Today it is called the church, the bride of Christ; in the OT, it was the remnant of Israel (true believers), who JOINED themselves to Christ and became the church (no replacement theology)

If God's plan was to have a separate Israel, what right do we have to read the OT because it was not written to them, not to us? However, we do read it, don't we? So, what happens when we read the psalms, memorize scriptures, and claim to be Abraham’s seed? Why do we do that? It is because we are the true remnant – or the new Israel of God!

In conclusion, the remnant of Israel that came to Christ ascended to the level and privilege to become the first body of Messiah (united to God through Christ-Jn. 14:17, 20). Later, Gentiles began to come to Christ (through the same door which is Christ-- John 10:7-8), therefore both groups are now one body (Eph. 2:14, 18-22).

Ephesians 4:4–6 (NASB 2020)
4 "There is one body and one Spirit, just as you also were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all."


THIS IS NOT REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY!

Replacement Theology goes under all different names, actually. Here's how you can know it's Replacement Theology, no matter what the name is, the CHURCH gets all the blessings, the Jews get all the curses. ROMANS 11 says you're wrong. You can start 20 different threads and say they aren't replacement theology. But if the church replaces the Jews in ROMANS 11, ya, it's replacement.

 

[awelight]

“The promises to Israel and the forefathers, was to inherit the land promised to THEM, to be ruled over by the Messiah, to receive peace and safety. THEY have never yet, received these things.”

“And I will send the sword, the famine, and the pestilence, among them, till they be consumed from off the land that I gave unto them and to their fathers.”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭24:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬


The messiah came preaching salvstion and they rejected accused and crucified him

“Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country: and when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it. And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.

Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.

But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.

When the Lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, The same is become the head of the corner: This is the Lord's doing, And it is marvellous in our eyes?

Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭21:33-43‬

“Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭23:34-38 KJV‬‬

“Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.”
‭‭John‬ ‭4:21, 23-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:

The LORD shall send upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken me.

The LORD shall make the pestilence cleave unto thee, until he have consumed thee from off the land, whither thou goest to possess it. The LORD shall make the rain of thy land powder and dust: from heaven shall it come down upon thee, until thou be destroyed.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭28:15, 20-21, 24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“I will utterly consume all things from off the land, saith the LORD.”
‭‭Zephaniah‬ ‭1:2‬ ‭

“and then the LORD's wrath be kindled against you, and he shut up the heaven, that there be no rain, and that the land yield not her fruit; and lest ye perish quickly from off the good land which the LORD giveth you.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭11:17‬ ‭

The old testsment is filled with those warnings if they broke the covenant it was a blessing I my if they obeyed when they entered the land , and a curse if they defiled the land with false worship of false gods it was a curse because they did that again and again finally they killed the messiah who came to save them

They have to repent and believe the gospel to be saved from the curse of the old covenant bekng broken the law became of effect As soon they crossed over Jordan into the promised land

“Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse; a blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day: and a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known. And it shall come to pass, when the LORD thy God hath brought thee in unto the land whither thou goest to possess it, that thou shalt put the blessing upon mount Gerizim, and the curse upon mount Ebal.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭11:26-29‬ ‭

they chose the curses

Please, please, quit throwing around verses in a scatter shot method. If you wish to discuss this matter, make a singular point and we will discuss it. So many of the verses you just gave, are conditional warnings or promises. Some represent the temporary displacement of Israel, so the Gentiles can be brought in. Perhaps you might want to look at POST #24 and start there in a meaningful discussion.

If you just want to shout out your beliefs, then let's forget about it.

 

[kaylagrl]

God's heart has always been for Jerusalem. When Jesus returns, it will not be to Mecca, Rome, Washington D.C., or Hong Kong.

The apple of His eye!!

 

[kaylagrl]

I am not sure, if I understood, your full intent, in this post David.

As touching Salvation, I would agree with your final statement. One tree. (But note that verse 24, calls it their "own" tree.). This one tree has Jesus Christ as it's root. Branches were broken of so that the Gentiles might be grafted in. Therefore, One tree - Jew and Gentile - which will both be in the one Kingdom.

This physical Kingdom, for a Millennium, will be the fulfillment of the Old Testament Covenants, given to the ethnic Jewish people. Both Jew and Gentile will populate this Kingdom. After which, the whole thing will go into the eternal state - A new heaven and a new earth.

The Covenant of Genesis 15:17-21, along with the Davidic Covenant, must be fulfilled literally. It cannot be otherwise or we make God out to be a liar and one whom breaks Unconditional and Unilateral Covenants. May it never be! Remember this and consider, please.

Gen 15:17-21 And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold, a smoking furnace, and a flaming torch that passed between these pieces. In that day Jehovah made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates: the Kenite, and the Kenizzite, and the Kadmonite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, and the Rephaim, and the Amorite, and the Canaanite, and the Girgashite, and the Jebusite.

Note that a flaming torch passed through the pieces - this is a Theophany, representing God sealing the Covenant. No man took part in it nor could they. It is Unilaterally and unconditionally binding upon God. It has not yet been fulfilled.

This!! We've been having a friendly set to over this here. lol I say the covenant was unconditional and everlasting and posted lots of verses to back that up.

 

[Jocund]

Gen 15:17-21 And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold, a smoking furnace, and a flaming torch that passed between these pieces. In that day Jehovah made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land

"Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. [...] And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." - Gal 3:16&29 KJV

The seed of the promises is Christ and those in Christ are Abraham's seed.

Do you reject Gal 3?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

"Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. [...] And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." - Gal 3:16&29 KJV

The seed of the promises is Christ and those in Christ are Abraham's seed.

Do you reject Gal 3?

Christ is promised the world not a plot of land in the Middle East why do you limit what Christ will gain?

 

[Jocund]

Christ is promised the world not a plot of land in the Middle East why do you limit what Christ will gain?

Do you understand the concept of mutual exclusion and when none exists? The two things don't cancel each other out. The statement "you'll get this land" and "you'll be king of the world" are not mutually exclusive.

The Christian Bible clearly and literally states that the seed of the promises is Christ and those in Christ are also the seed of Abraham. This is scripture being rightly divided by necessary exegetics.

Christians (and those destined to be Christians) are God's chosen people and have been chosen from before the foundation of the world (cf. Eph 1:4).

I already know that you reject Christian scripture, but I will give any Dispensationalist the benefit of the doubt one time. It wouldn't be fair to assume that everyone has thoroughly read the NT and consciously rejected it.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Do you understand the concept of mutual exclusion and when none exists? The two things don't cancel each other out. The statement "you'll get this land" and "you'll be king of the world" are not mutually exclusive.

The Christian Bible clearly and literally states that the seed of the promises is Christ and those in Christ are also the seed of Abraham. This is scripture being rightly divided by necessary exegetics.

Christians (and those destined to be Christians) are God's chosen people and have been chosen from before the foundation of the world (cf. Eph 1:4).

I already know that you reject Christian scripture, but I will give any Dispensationalist the benefit of the doubt one time. It wouldn't be fair to assume that everyone has thoroughly read the NT and consciously rejected it.

You act as if you know it all.. You talk about how people respond in my last post to you. yet here you are claiming I reject scripture.

Its not me that rejects scripture my friend. I Take God at his word. When he promises something he means it. When he said it is yours, he means it.

Promising a plot of land to Christ is nonsensical. if Christ is the recipiant. then God should have just kept his mouth shut. because it makes no sense.

the NT supports my view. You may not like it or agree. but it does. romans 11 tells us of an elect people who are blinded in part. but will one day repent and all be saved. Gentile christians were not part of that group.

The first thing you need to do is humble yourself. You telling people they reject scripture is not helping your case. And it makes you look bad

 

[Evmur]

The word "us" in Eph 1:4 is defined in v.19 as "us who believe". So Eph 1:4 speaks of believers who have been chosen...to be holy and blameless, which is SERVICE.

To be holy and blameless are not even real only in God's eyes, God reckons us holy and blameless because we believe. Service has stitch to do with it.

To be chosen [election] is conditional upon one thing only ... God's foreknowledge. Not what He knows but WHO He knows. He knows US.

That has equal application to the Jews and to the Gentiles. If our election is irrevocable so is theirs. In fact when Paul wishes to expound the doctrine He draws upon the example of Jacob and Esau.

D'ya know ... I wouldn't dare to oppose [long term] a people of whom God says "they are My beloved!"

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
The word "us" in Eph 1:4 is defined in v.19 as "us who believe". So Eph 1:4 speaks of believers who have been chosen...to be holy and blameless, which is SERVICE.

To be holy and blameless are not even real only in God's eyes, God reckons us holy and blameless because we believe. Service has stitch to do with it.

Nope. Consider what else Paul wrote, in 1 Cor 1:2 - To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be his holy people, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours:

To be 'called' is closely related to being 'elected'. And this verse shows that it is saved people, "those sanctified IN Christ Jesus" who are "called to be His holy people".

It would be quite wrong to argue that being called to be holy isn't a service to the Lord. To be holy and blameless refers to a LIFESTYLE that is honoring to the Lord. Why would you argue that being called to be holy isn't a service to the Lord???

[

To be chosen [election] is conditional upon one thing only ... God's foreknowledge. Not what He knows but WHO He knows. He knows US.

This in no way proves or even says that election is to salvation.

That has equal application to the Jews and to the Gentiles. If our election is irrevocable so is theirs. In fact when Paul wishes to expound the doctrine He draws upon the example of Jacob and Esau.

I've never argued otherwise.

D'ya know ... I wouldn't dare to oppose [long term] a people of whom God says "they are My beloved!"

Why do you assume that I would oppose God's "beloved"?? Where did that come from?

 

[Jocund]

Promising a plot of land to Christ is nonsensical. if Christ is the recipiant. then God should have just kept his mouth shut. because it makes no sense

It's strange that you wished God had "kept his mouth shut." You reject Gal 3:16 because it makes no sense to you. It's not that Gal 3:16 is confusing, you are just confused.

Gal 3:16 is clearly stated as it is despite your confusion. It is written plainly and itself is not confusing. Christ is the seed of the promises. And being Christ's, Christians are Abraham's seed.

When your understanding of the world contradicts scripture, you should be rejecting your worldview, not scripture. It is your choice to reject the very clear message in Gal 3. It is your choice to reject the rightly divided word of God.

You act as if you know it all.

This isn't complicated. Gal 3 states that Christ is the seed of the Abrahamic promises and that those in Christ are Abraham's seed.

Many topics are open to interpretation with two or more possible sides. This isn't one of those. It is rare to legitimately have something that can cleanly be demonstrated to be necessarily false. The Dispensationalist view that Abraham's seed is not Christ (and those in Christ) is necessarily false.

When he promises something he means it.

He meant everything that was written including Gal 3 which speaks to the whole context of what "seed" means in those promises. You just don't like what scripture plainly and clearly states. Your problem is with the literal and plain meaning shown in scripture, not with me. Are you claiming that God lied when the Bible states that Christ is the seed of the promises? Or is your issue with Biblical canon in general? Is your Dispensationalist belief like the Moslems that only respect the New Testament as an erroneous deuterocanon?

It's not too late to believe in Christ the seed. It's not too late to turn back from the lie of Dispensationalism.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Please, please, quit throwing around verses in a scatter shot method. If you wish to discuss this matter, make a singular point and we will discuss it. So many of the verses you just gave, are conditional warnings or promises. Some represent the temporary displacement of Israel, so the Gentiles can be brought in. Perhaps you might want to look at POST #24 and start there in a meaningful discussion.

If you just want to shout out your beliefs, then let's forget about it.

Lol I don’t think I’ve even spoke. Tom you have I ? I remember trying before months ago and you just argue constantly

The scriptures just say what they say your right about one thing though the scriptures detail both a blessing and a curse that could result for Israel based on what they did cording to the law it’s not at all complex it becomes complex when one refuses to let what it says be what it says

This shapes the rest of the Old Testament it could have gone either way

“Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse; a blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day: and a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭11:26-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he gave israel a choice

“See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; in that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:15-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬


they chose the curse in the covenant when they broke it

“The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.

The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:5, 20‬ ‭

it’s like some of you guys read what it says and then “Say no those scriptures don’t say that Gods covenant with israel is “conditionless “

There’s nothing to argue about it’s plain straight forward fact the covenant God made with israel as they entered the promised land could be a blessing if they obeyed and would be a curse if they broke the covenant

it’s as if that’s the pet you can’t grasp they broke the covenant God warned them not to break he warned them In detail multiple repeated times

“The LORD shall make the pestilence cleave unto thee, until he have consumed thee from off the land, whither thou goest to possess it.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭28:21‬ ‭KJV‬

“And I will send the sword, the famine, and the pestilence, among them, till they be consumed from off the land that I gave unto them and to their fathers.”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭24:10‬

“And the pride of Israel doth testify to his face: therefore shall Israel and Ephraim fall in their iniquity; Judah also shall fall with them.”
‭‭Hosea‬ ‭5:5‬ ‭

“The virgin of Israel is fallen; she shall no more rise: she is forsaken upon her land; there is none to raise her up.”
‭‭Amos‬ ‭5:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

After he’s announced the curse on the earth gays going to destroy it he promised a new covenant because they broke the other and it became a curse just like he repeatedly said to them

“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: but this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭31:31-34‬ ‭KJV‬‬


that’s the only way israel can be saved understanding tv y broke the covenant made through Moses and are cursed by it thier last chance was when Jesus came but they killed him and the result was this

“But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him. When the Lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons. Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, The same is become the head of the corner: This is the Lord's doing, And it is marvellous in our eyes? Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭21:37-43‬

I understand you don’t want the scriptures involved and just want to argue but it just says what it says

israel can be saved from the curse just like gentiles can be saved from the curse which sin brought to the world

The land of promise for those who are saved is not the land that was defiles and cursed it’s not in this world

“Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:13‬ ‭

Peter was an Israelite and he’s telling you the promised land is the new creation promised in Christ

the whole early church are Israelites , they are the remnant who believes when the messiah came like God told them in the prophets

there’s a reason thy gospel was preached specifically to israel first and then after he was rejected and killed he sent it to all nations

he was given tonisrsel to save them from the curse but they refused him when he came this is how he came to all nations when all the gentiles Of all nations including Israel , are fetbherew that will end this earth and usher in the new things

Your trying to restore flesh and blood according to a covenant that cursed them and has no restoration

and ignoring the new and eternal covenant sent to save man both Israelites nd gentiles because thier flesh doesn’t matter thier faith in Christ matters

gentiles who accept the gospel and Israelites who accept the gospel they are all going to be saved and share in the kingdom with Jesus

gentiles and Israelites who reject the gospel are not going to be saved and will not share in the kingdom with Christ

it’s simple one covenant was broken and the curses God swore in it for transgression came to pass on those who broke the covenant given to them

another covenant was given by Jesus Christ the messiah and savior of Israel
And the earth, the new covenant doesn’t promise the old promised land it promises a new home that will
Never pass away like this one is going to

there are two testaments in scripture each holds its own promises , each is according to its own creation it’s own heaven and earth

one is going to end violently the other will Never end

One covenant leads to death the other to eternal Life but not in this world this one’s ending

Israel’s covenant says what it says pertaining to the land of promise given to aNathan’s flesh offspring it was given then and they defiles and cursed and ruined it

now God has made a new covenant with better promises and a better promised land

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

It's strange that you wished God had "kept his mouth shut."

I did not say I WISHED he kept his mouth shut

My friend you need to learn how to read...

You reject Gal 3:16 because it makes no sense to you. It's not that Gal 3:16 is confusing, you are just confused.

I do not reject Gal 3. I reject YOUR INTERPRETation of it>. HUGE DIFFERENCE

Gal 3:16 is clearly stated as it is despite your confusion. It is written plainly and itself is not confusing. Christ is the seed of the promises. And being Christ's, Christians are Abraham's seed.

When your understanding of the world contradicts scripture, you should be rejecting your worldview, not scripture. It is your choice to reject the very clear message in Gal 3. It is your choice to reject the rightly divided word of God.

This isn't complicated. Gal 3 states that Christ is the seed of the Abrahamic promises and that those in Christ are Abraham's seed.

Gal 3 does not say a thing about the land promise that was Given to abraham, Isaac, Jacob and his 12 sons and all of their descendants.

You can sit there and say it until your blue in the face and falsly accuse me of saying things I never said, it will not make it true.

Many topics are open to interpretation with two or more possible sides. This isn't one of those. It is rare to legitimately have something that can cleanly be demonstrated to be necessarily false. The Dispensationalist view that Abraham's seed is not Christ (and those in Christ) is necessarily false.

Your right, it is not one of those. It has to do with SALVATION and the ETERNAL DESTTINY of those who recieve the seed.

It has NOTHING to do with land in the middle east.

He meant everything that was written including Gal 3 which speaks to the whole context of what "seed" means in those promises. You just don't like what scripture plainly and clearly states. Your problem is with the literal and plain meaning shown in scripture, not with me. Are you claiming that God lied when the Bible states that Christ is the seed of the promises? Or is your issue with Biblical canon in general? Is your Dispensationalist belief like the Moslems that only respect the New Testament as an erroneous deuterocanon?

It's not too late to believe in Christ the seed. It's not too late to turn back from the lie of Dispensationalism.

I counter to say You do not even know what dispensationalists believe. You show time and time again you do not understand me, You keep accusing me of things I have not said or done. How can wee sit there and think you understand what our belief says?

You claim God does not keep his promises. enough said right there. You offer me no hope

 

[Mem]

If the promise is to all of Abraham's seed, in the sense that it includes both natural and spiritual seed... that is the natural as well as wild branches, which remain connected to the root, then what?