Will There Be Sex in Heaven?

[Lynx]

How about 1Kings 22 when God had a meeting with His angels and fallen angels and conferred with the fallen angels on how best to kill King Ahab? When a fallen angel came up with a good plan, God told him to go and succeed (how about God telling satan to attack Job). What is going on there? Don't be afraid to think and keep thinking until you find answers. The fact is that there is a great deal we don't know (in just the first three chapters of Genesis is enough mystery to take literally thousands of years to 'download' even through the lightspeed of revelation); we just tend to be too afraid to acknowledge this and prefer to pretend that we already know because we don't want to know more.

Who said it was a fallen angel? Do you assume this because you assume that is the only kind that is able to lie to a human? The Bible NEVER said it was a fallen angel.

 

[Lynx]

The four accounts of Jesus's crucifixion say nothing about Jesus falling three times, so we can't take that from a movie and make it fact. (On the other hand, the Bible isn't shy to disclose that Jesus did not carry His cross the entire way to Golgotha because of His wounds and weariness. This fact just doesn't align with the religious view many christians like to believe which is that since the OT said Jesus would suffer [alone], He would indeed carry the cross, the symbol of His suffering, all the way. How's that for shattering religious mindsets.)

It's only a religious mindset that thinks God doesn't and can't show anything to occultists. (So, God allows occultists to hurt and kill people but doesn't disclose or reveal anything to them for their own good?) The Bible calls the men "wise men from the East". If you follow the history of the East at least in the Bible, these men came from the region of Arabia and Babylon. In that region, "wise men" were practitioners of the occult (and 'New Age'). Daniel knows. He was in Babylon where he was added to the "wise men" and thought to be like them because he was wise. When the king had a dream he couldn't interpret, he called for his "wise men":

"Then the king gave the command to call the magicians, the astrologers, the sorcerers, and the Chaldeans to tell the king his dreams" (Daniel 2:2).

Makes perfect sense, because wise men have access to the spirit realm where they can 'find' knowledge that is hidden such as the interpretation of dreams. In the occult and New Age, they practice 'astral travel' and 'remote viewing'. In the Bible, we see God using what the occult would call 'remote viewing' several times. This is because everything satan does was already on God's side first as satan cannot create. Jesus first saw Nathanael by 'looking in on him' from a distance (John 1:43-51). In 2Kings 6:8-13, God showed Elisha the enemy's plans, preempting the enemy. When the enemy king inquired how this was happening, one of his own men (who apparently had access to the occult world) stated that Elisha was receiving knowledge about their plans. So, while Elisha was 'looking in' on the enemy (God's way), his enemy was 'looking in on him' (using occult abilities). Isn't that interesting? These things are sprinkled throughout the Bible and only surface for those who are seeking understanding beneath surface knowledge. The wise men were probably more than three (because wise men weren't unique, and the travel was too far to take only three common individuals), and they were into astrology. Joseph lied about using a similar talent (divination) to 'look in on his brothers' (read the story in Genesis 44). Also, why did Jesus have a star that appeared or was understood by the astrologers of the day, but today astrology says that everyone has a star but is bad? There are many questions.

You saying I may need to challenge my beliefs doesn't surprise me because christians don't challenge their beliefs. I'm not a christian. I'm someone who is pursuing God, therefore, I challenge every single thing, including God on some things (which the Bible permits as long as your heart is right isn't prideful or rebellious). I have read the story of the Fall. God hasn't answered most of my prayers to date (though He promises to), yet I don't accuse Him of doing wrong when I certainly 'deserve' to. I get tired of hearing christians putting things on God that are not in fact true. Explain to me what good things God took from Adam and Eve (and Earth) at the time of the Fall. Use your own words and explain it rather than just repeating it. Remember that there is evidence of generational curses in the Bible before God told Moses, "I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate Me" (Exodus 20:5). From that statement, do you really think God is the One who visits those curses on innocent people?

How about 1Kings 22 when God had a meeting with His angels and fallen angels and conferred with the fallen angels on how best to kill King Ahab? When a fallen angel came up with a good plan, God told him to go and succeed (how about God telling satan to attack Job). What is going on there? Don't be afraid to think and keep thinking until you find answers. The fact is that there is a great deal we don't know (in just the first three chapters of Genesis is enough mystery to take literally thousands of years to 'download' even through the lightspeed of revelation); we just tend to be too afraid to acknowledge this and prefer to pretend that we already know because we don't want to know more.

Dude. You are... Like... REALLY hung up on this idea of sex in Heaven. You have done the conversational equivalent of vaulting logs and crawling through tunnels, almost desperate to overcome any obstacle.

Is it really that important to you?

I almost get the impression you are so desperate to believe this because you aren't getting any sex down here, and you're afraid if you die a virgin you'll miss out forever, so it's better to do anything you can to believe you'll have another shot at sex in Heaven.

Of course I could be wrong, but that's the impression I get from all the many, many words you have spent trying so hard to defend this idea.

 

[SonsOfCaleb]

I think the scriptures is clear that the heavens that we know and the earth that we know get wiped out. Science reveals that they are not eternal. We inherit an eternal world. The planets are not them.

I'm going to add one more thing to what I said in my last response about the way God communicates with me (which often makes the way I communicate about spir things different). God usually communicates to me by direct revelation that comes in the moment.

People have told me to go on a Bible plan to read the whole Bible in a year. I've also been told to read the Book of Proverbs, one chapter a day. I've been told to follow this Bible plan and keep that spiritual journal. I've read the whole Bible probably, but not as a plan. I can follow these methods, but I also realize they're not efficient for me.

If, for example, I ym decide to do the Proverbs plan and go to read Proverbs 1 today (August 1, 2022) and then read the rest of the chapters a day at a time, guess what will happen? I'll tell you what will happen because it's always happening: maybe two or three verses into the first chapter, the Holy will suddenly highlight something to me. As I consider it or ponder over it, God will begin to unfold or 'open' it to me the same way Jesus opened the Scriptures to the two discipes on the road to Emmaus. This process can take a whole hour from just one verse (rather than reading the chapter in under two minutes) and I'll have not only learned more from that one verse than I could've learned from half the book of Proverbs while following a plan but my spirit will also be noticeably satisfied or fed. I'll come out of it knowing I encountered God and didn't just read the Bible. Now here's what I want to get to:

In 2015, I decided to go to a Mennonite church. I still am not sure what their beliefs are (as I know that believing, though sufficient, isn't nearly as valid as knowing), but I think they had Calvinistic doctrines. After church, the men kissed each other on the mouth (that was unnecessary) and one older couple decided to take me to their home on a farm for lunch. The food was surprisingly pretty bare (I was expecting something like whole goat legs from farm-dwellers), but while we ate, they of course wanted to perform a useless practice that many christians seem to have gotten passed down to them from the ancient Greeks: they wanted to talk about the Bible and doctrine.

They began talking about predestination, foreknowledge, etc. I've never been really interested in that doctrine and knew nothing about it, but do you know what suddenly happened? While they went on about different stances on the topic, I (minding my business and wishing I was holding a whole leg of meat instead of picking at Swiss chard and bits of ham) suddenly received revelation about the topic, and I explained it to them succinctly in under thirty seconds. This couple was about five times older than me if you put their ages together. I continued eating as they looked at me as if they were going to have a panic attack. Saying that older couple couldn't believe it is the understatement of the year. They couldn't believe that a regular guy like me who was young, unread (no scholarship or accolades), simple, and unassuming had just in under thirty seconds explained predestination and foreknowledge far far far better and more clearly and concisely than all the older theologians they knew or had ever read. They became uncomfortable with this anomaly as cognitive dissonance assaulted their intelligence and were covertly happy when I got up to leave after lunch.

Now, do you think at this very moment (August 1, 2022) that I understand predestination or can give an explanation about it like the one I gave that couple seven years ago? Not a chance. God teaches me most things directly and in the moment. Most of the time I remember, but sometimes it's given for others and then I don't remember it afterwards. When God teaches by revelation, all the glory goes to Him (because no one can have the level of understanding that God has). But those who wish to learn this way should know it comes at a cost. satan, knowing he can't prevail when God's revelation is at work, will target believers-- great or small-- who receive from God by revelation. This is why Paul said in 2Corinthians 12 that satan sent him distress due to the revelations he was receiving from God. That doesn't only apply to Paul but to all who will receive from God by revelation.

So, there are many ways to learn spiritual things, but God's primary way or language, as we see in the Bible, is that we receive not from lexicons, concordance, hermeneutics, and other similar man-made things (though He doesn't reject those things) but directly from Himself so that he teaching and learning are pure(r). The Bible says the Holy Spirit (not the commentary) is the one who reveals or explains God's Word to us and that when He does it, it 'makes sense. One of the telltale signs (which means it's not always the case) that the Holy Spirit is revealing or unfolding or unpacking or teaching something is that what is taught will be simple enough for toddlers to understand. It needs no commentary or hermeneutics.

"The unfolding (revelation, revealing, explaining, shining forth, unrolling, unpacking, exposition, administering, entering in, uncovering, unmasking, laying bare, promotion) of Your words gives light; it gives understanding to the simple" (Psalm 119:130).

 

[Eli1]

YES! There will be plenty of sex in Heaven, BUT it will all depends on what TIER you’ll be.
If you’re on tier 3, no sex for you.
But on tier 1 you’ll have sex all day long.

 

[Lynx]

YES! There will be plenty of sex in Heaven, BUT it will all depends on what TIER you’ll be.
If you’re on tier 3, no sex for you.
But on tier 1 you’ll have sex all day long.

How ironic that I plan to be top-tier, but have never had enough interest to even make an effort to find a mate.

Then why am I striving for top-tier? I hear the chocolate at the top is heavenly.

 

[Runningman]

Just because Jesus ate and drank, had fellowship with the disciples and probably took communion, doesn't mean there will be sex in Heaven. Remember the widow with the seven husbands. Jesus was specifically discussing a woman who was married pre-resurrection and saying she won't be married in Heaven.

Matthew 22:30 doesn’t say they won’t be married (the the state of being in an pre-existing marriage) it says they won’t marry or be given in marriage. That’s a totally different thing than already being married (past tense.) Marry in Matt 22:30 is a verb in the present indicative active 3rd person form. It means there won’t be any weddings performed after the resurrection; people who were already married don’t need to marry again. I hope that makes sense.

Luke referred to Jesus's mother and brothers for our benefit, the same way we may say we have a grandma passed and gone to Heaven. However, that doesn't mean the relations transfer over except maybe as a memory. We don't say we have a sister in Christ who passed on to Heaven.

The plain-text rendering of Bible verses is preferred when there’s no apparent reason to create interpretations to fit a particular narrative. i.e., it doesn’t say our family will only be a memory or it was written for our benefit. I can’t accept that.

The writer of Acts, Luke most likely, referred to Mary as His mother and His brothers as His brothers. I have no reason to believe that they will ever cease to be His biological family since they were named as such after His resurrection.

 

[MsMediator]

Matthew 22:30 doesn’t say they won’t be married (the the state of being in an pre-existing marriage) it says they won’t marry or be given in marriage.

You are ignoring the fact that Jesus specifically discussed a woman who was married pre-resurrection and did not say she will remain married in Heaven. When the dead rise, they will be like angels, who are unmarried. Jesus also said the Sadducees erred in thinking she will remain a wife.

 

[Runningman]

You are ignoring the fact that Jesus specifically discussed a woman who was married pre-resurrection and did not say she will remain married in Heaven. When the dead rise, they will be like angels, who are unmarried. Jesus also said the Sadducees erred in thinking she will remain a wife.

Jesus said “you are mistaken” to this passage:

23That same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to Jesus and questioned Him. 24“Teacher,” they said, “Moses declared that if a man dies without having children, his brother is to marry the widow and raise up offspring for him. 25Now there were seven brothers among us. The first one married and died without having children. So he left his wife to his brother. 26The same thing happened to the second and third brothers, down to the seventh. 27And last of all, the woman died.28In the resurrection, then, whose wife will she be of the seven? For all of them were married to her.”

They weren’t mistaken about what Moses said. They didn’t declare that the woman would be married to all 7 men, but rather questioned Jesus what the answer is. A question isn’t a mistake. The only thing they were mistaken about was this:

23That same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to Jesus and questioned Him.

They were mistaken about there being no resurrection. Hence Jesus said:

29Jesus answered, “You are mistaken because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God.

The scripture testifies of a resurrection and the power of God can perform a resurrection. The scriptures don’t talk about 7 men and a woman being being married as an example of the power of God.

The words are still clear about the words “marry nor be given in marriage.” Jesus didn’t directly deny they wouldn’t remain married post-resurrection, but rather that there won’t be any additional new marriages performed or consummated.

 

[MsMediator]

I disagree, and you skipped verses 24-28. Jesus responded to the specific question the Sadducees had about the widow with the seven husbands. The Sadducees did not ask a question on whether or not there is resurrection here. The gist of Jesus' response was "no marriage after resurrection". When He says there were mistaken, he was referring to the marriage question, not about resurrection.

However, Jesus also discussed resurrection after addressing the marriage issue, but he moved on to a different topic. See below I bolded "But about", "Now about," etc., suggesting transition to a different issue. He moved on to a different topic, since the topic of resurrection is the big issue for the Sadducees and non-believers not a rare example of a woman with seven husbands.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Matthew 22:23-33 That same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question. 24 “Teacher,” they said, “Moses told us that if a man dies without having children, his brother must marry the widow and have children for him. 25 Now there were seven brothers among us. The first one married and died, and since he had no children, he left his wife to his brother. 26 The same thing happened to the second and third brother, right on down to the seventh. 27 Finally, the woman died. 28 Now then, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be of the seven, since all of them were married to her?” 29 Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. 31 But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you, 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”

Luke 20:27-40 Some of the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to Jesus with a question. 28 “Teacher,” they said, “Moses wrote for us that if a man’s brother dies and leaves a wife but no children, the man must marry the widow and have children for his brother. 29 Now there were seven brothers. The first one married a woman and died childless. 30 The second 31 and then the third married her, and in the same way the seven died, leaving no children. 32 Finally, the woman died too. 33 Now then, at the resurrection whose wife will she be, since the seven were married to her?” 34 Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are considered worthy of taking part in that age and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36 and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels.66 They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection. 37 But in the account of the bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ 38 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.” 39 Some of the teachers of the law responded, “Well said, teacher!” 40 And no one dared to ask him any more questions.

Mark 12:18-27 Then the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question. 19 “Teacher,” they said, “Moses wrote for us that if a man’s brother dies and leaves a wife but no children, the man must marry the widow and have children for his brother. 20 Now there were seven brothers. The first one married and died without leaving any children. 21 The second one married the widow, but he also died, leaving no child. It was the same with the third. 22 In fact, none of the seven left any children. Last of all, the woman died too. 23 At the resurrection whose wife will she be, since the seven were married to her?” 24 Jesus replied, “Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God? 25 When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. 26 Now about the dead rising—have you not read in the book of Moses, in the account of the bush, how God said to him, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? 27 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You are badly mistaken!”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Amanuensis]

You are ignoring the fact that Jesus specifically discussed a woman who was married pre-resurrection and did not say she will remain married in Heaven. When the dead rise, they will be like angels, who are unmarried. Jesus also said the Sadducees erred in thinking she will remain a wife.

You said a mouthful. I hate that the churches are so divided, because when people are divided, their communication is also divided.

I've written several long posts, but I hate to write more than two short paragraphs because 'my style' is to 'fly over, drop a bomb, and keep moving'. Unlike bullets, bombs target everything in the area rather than picking and choosing. I use generalities all the time because I learn quickly when people generalize and forget that not everyone learns that way.

God uses generalizations throughout the Bible, and when Jesus said that all the religious Jewish leaders were [snakes, condemned, etc.], He knew that not every last one of them was what He was saying they were. He knew about Nicodemus, later Joseph of Arimathea. He also had common sense and did enough mingling in Israel to know that not all Jewish religious leaders were corrupt. But when He spoke 'harshly' about them as a whole, He always lumped them together.

As far back as 1998, I was never into seeing or believing things that fit my own feelings or beliefs. I knew how to separate my own things from the truth. This was why when my older brother told me in 2000-2002 that the Vineyard churches (begun in Anaheim, CA) were corrupt and that the charismatic churches were not really worshipping God is spirit but were "soulish", I genuinely didn't believe him (which I distinguished from not wanting to believe him). But since I understood that God knows everything and not us, I put what he said on the backburner thinking, "I don't believe it, but I don't know either. So I'll put it here and let God reveal it." Before the end of 2004, God revealed to me that everything (all the 'bad news') my brother had told me was true to the last bit. God would not have had a chance to show me the truth if I had thrown out what my brother said because I didn't believe it. Still works that way now.

You mentioned hermeneutics, etc. God, that is like the extremely slow-motion route to learning. Okay, so that's just for me. 99% of what God has taught me has never come from any man-made commentaries, lexicons, or those helps. I'm not against them. As I said, my style is to get in, drop a bomb, then get out. I'm not the type to sit around and linger (which is why I fly through these comments and probably make lots of errors); my design is to go-- to stop here, stop there, and keep moving. Because God made me this way, He usually teaches me while I'm on the move and I don't have to sit and study and read, etc. Hopefully, you don't think this is illegitimate as it's God's preferred method of teaching anything:

"When you are brought before synagogues, rulers, and authorities, do not worry about how to defend yourselves or what to say. For at that time the Holy Spirit will teach you what you should say" (Luke 12:11-12).

I've experienced it all the time and it has to do with practical, pragmatic, down-to-earth aspects of life; it's how God teaches me (ie. in the moment). It's God's preferred way to speak to or teach anyone, but He doesn't do it with everyone or all the time. This style of teaching, revelation, or communication frees a person up. Someone who is say heading an organization or company would benefit tremendously from this style of communication and teaching from God because they are freed up to be busy with work, etc. I have lots of examples of how this has worked for me. Here is just one:

Sometime in 2013, I began attending a church and noticed (there again is that 'anointing' connected to being 'taught in the moment') whenever we met on Sunday and Wednesday, most attendees immediately dashed to get something to eat at the nearby Dairy Queen or some restaurant-- every time after a service/meeting. I stopped and considered why this was, then I gained understanding. God 'released to me' (not said to me) why this was the case: we humans are tri-partite beings, and each of our three parts must 'eat' or be nourished. Our spirits are nourished on Christ; our souls are nourished by love, belonging, entertainment, good times, etc.; and our bodies are nourished by food that goes in our mouths. Since these three parts are interconnected, it makes it so that when one part is not being fed, the other two parts will seek to compensate (the same way your stomach acids begin to 'eat' your inner walls if there's no food in your stomach). Jesus talked about all three to the Samaritan woman at the well (soul hunger (her five husbands and sixth lover), body hunger (coming to the well for water), and spirit hunger (the water Jesus gives that wells up to eternal life)). What I was witnessing at that church was that the people were not being spiritually fed. Since their spirits were not fed, they immediately sought to compensate for that hunger (as is normal) by eating for the body (and over-socializing before and after church).

That's how God talks to me. He also usually talks to me in 'spiritual language', so that's how I tend to talk myself. For that reason, most people don't get what I'm saying which is why I keep telling people to ask what I mean instead of writing a treatise that will then take me 100 years to try to explain. Hermeneutics can only go so far. God has taken me farther teaching me directly by the Holy Spirit. I don't know what else I can tell you now, but this is why I ask (and might say) some things that some christians think are stupid but which are not in fact stupid at all. Lol.

We are probably saying the same things in different ways. I believe in being lead by the Holy Spirit and having an experiential life of Holy Spirit guidance and illumination. You will probably agree with most of the following;

1) A born again Christian can rely on the Holy Spirit to guide them to discover the meaning that the author intended when he wrote it. And also deeper meanings that the author might not have been aware of but does not contradict the meaning that the author was aware of (sensus plenior)

2) Personal holiness is necessary to illumination, as habitual sin will darken the ability to discern correctly.

3) The teacher should be very careful to study to show themselves approved by right dividing the Word knowing they will be judged more severely if they don't. And that means that the Holy Spirit does lead them to study and reference bible believing commentaries from scholarly Holy Spirit filled authors to confirm or correct preconceived ideas or opinions that might be wrong due to ignorant mistakes. God gave the church teachers, of which I consider commentary writers to be, along with the fivefold ministry to mature us according the Paul. It is very much a Holy Spirit guided method to reference them. I would say it is much more Holy Spirit guided that leaning on ones own understanding and not confirming if ones ideas can be supported by what others have written.

I have discovered mistakes that I have made many times and was so glad that I researched and did not shoot my mouth off and say ignorant things.

And finally, and most important to this conversation:

4) Presenting opinions as fact without study or research to determine accuracy is not a sign of divine inspiration.
It is a sign of thinking ones thoughts are divinely inspired. And this is a sign of extreme arrogance. It is one thing to trust in the Holy Spirit to lead us into all truth it is quite another to think that our opinions are ALL TRUTH.

 

[Runningman]

I disagree, and you skipped verses 24-28. Jesus responded to the specific question the Sadducees had about the widow with the seven husbands. The Sadducees did not ask a question on whether or not there is resurrection here. The gist of Jesus' response was "no marriage after resurrection". When He says there were mistaken, he was referring to the marriage question, not about resurrection.

However, Jesus also discussed resurrection after addressing the marriage issue, but he moved on to a different topic. See below I bolded "But about", "Now about," etc., suggesting transition to a different issue. He moved on to a different topic, since the topic of resurrection is the big issue for the Sadducees and non-believers not a rare example of a woman with seven husbands.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Matthew 22:23-33 That same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question. 24 “Teacher,” they said, “Moses told us that if a man dies without having children, his brother must marry the widow and have children for him. 25 Now there were seven brothers among us. The first one married and died, and since he had no children, he left his wife to his brother. 26 The same thing happened to the second and third brother, right on down to the seventh. 27 Finally, the woman died. 28 Now then, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be of the seven, since all of them were married to her?” 29 Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. 31 But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you, 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”

Luke 20:27-40 Some of the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to Jesus with a question. 28 “Teacher,” they said, “Moses wrote for us that if a man’s brother dies and leaves a wife but no children, the man must marry the widow and have children for his brother. 29 Now there were seven brothers. The first one married a woman and died childless. 30 The second 31 and then the third married her, and in the same way the seven died, leaving no children. 32 Finally, the woman died too. 33 Now then, at the resurrection whose wife will she be, since the seven were married to her?” 34 Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are considered worthy of taking part in that age and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36 and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels.66 They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection. 37 But in the account of the bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ 38 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.” 39 Some of the teachers of the law responded, “Well said, teacher!” 40 And no one dared to ask him any more questions.

Mark 12:18-27 Then the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question. 19 “Teacher,” they said, “Moses wrote for us that if a man’s brother dies and leaves a wife but no children, the man must marry the widow and have children for his brother. 20 Now there were seven brothers. The first one married and died without leaving any children. 21 The second one married the widow, but he also died, leaving no child. It was the same with the third. 22 In fact, none of the seven left any children. Last of all, the woman died too. 23 At the resurrection whose wife will she be, since the seven were married to her?” 24 Jesus replied, “Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God? 25 When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. 26 Now about the dead rising—have you not read in the book of Moses, in the account of the bush, how God said to him, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? 27 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You are badly mistaken!”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I didn’t skip it, actually I addressed it quickly assuming you knew that what the Sadducees said regarding what Moses said was accurate. It wasn’t the “mistake” Jesus said they made.

Here it is from the Law:

Deuteronomy 25:5
5When brothers dwell together and one of them dies without a son, the widow must not marry outside the family. Her husband’s brother is to take her as his wife and fulfill the duty of a brother-in-law for her.

Nor was the mistake asking a question. The only mistake in that passage was that they say there is no resurrection.

Matthew 22:23,29
23That same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to Jesus and questioned Him.

29Jesus answered, “You are mistaken because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God.

So there are three possibilities here.

They didn’t know the Scriptures or the power of God because…

1. They didn’t understand what Moses said.
2. They asked a question about who’s wife a woman who had married 7 men would be.
3. The Sadducees said there is no resurrection.

The Sadducees quoted Moses accurately and asking a question isn’t a mistake. The only mistake was that they said was there is no resurrection.

Do you think they misquoted Moses or do you think asking Jesus questions is a mistake?

 

[Amanuensis]

I didn’t skip it, actually I addressed it quickly assuming you knew that what the Sadducees said regarding what Moses said was accurate. It wasn’t the “mistake” Jesus said they made.

Here it is from the Law:

Deuteronomy 25:5
5When brothers dwell together and one of them dies without a son, the widow must not marry outside the family. Her husband’s brother is to take her as his wife and fulfill the duty of a brother-in-law for her.

Nor was the mistake asking a question. The only mistake in that passage was that they say there is no resurrection.

Matthew 22:23,29
23That same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to Jesus and questioned Him.

29Jesus answered, “You are mistaken because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God.

So there are three possibilities here.

They didn’t know the Scriptures or the power of God because…

1. They didn’t understand what Moses said.
2. They asked a question about who’s wife a woman who had married 7 men would be.
3. The Sadducees said there is no resurrection.

The Sadducees quoted Moses accurately and asking a question isn’t a mistake. The only mistake was that they said was there is no resurrection.

Do you think they misquoted Moses or do you think asking Jesus questions is a mistake?

Their error was twofold.

1) That they thought there was no resurrection, they were wrong about that.

2) Their idea that if there was a resurrection then this scenario would require sorting out to determine who of the 7 would have her as a wife was an error in thinking. Because the children of the resurrection are not married. Nor do they have sex. They are like the angels. Its going to be a new world, new missions, new objectives. Marriage is not one of them. THANK GOD.

 

[tourist]

YES! There will be plenty of sex in Heaven, BUT it will all depends on what TIER you’ll be.
If you’re on tier 3, no sex for you.
But on tier 1 you’ll have sex all day long.

Personally, I'm trending towards tier 1.

 

[tourist]

How ironic that I plan to be top-tier, but have never had enough interest to even make an effort to find a mate.

Then why am I striving for top-tier? I hear the chocolate at the top is heavenly.

I believe that you are tier 1 material.

 

[SonsOfCaleb]

The teacher should be very careful to study to show themselves approved by right dividing the Word knowing they will be judged more severely if they don't. And that means that the Holy Spirit does lead them to study and reference bible believing commentaries from scholarly Holy Spirit filled authors to confirm or correct preconceived ideas or opinions that might be wrong due to ignorant mistakes. God gave the church teachers, of which I consider commentary writers to be, along with the fivefold ministry to mature us according the Paul. It is very much a Holy Spirit guided method to reference them. I would say it is much more Holy Spirit guided that leaning on ones own understanding and not confirming if ones ideas can be supported by what others have written.

Presenting opinions as fact without study or research to determine accuracy is not a sign of divine inspiration.
It is a sign of thinking ones thoughts are divinely inspired. And this is a sign of extreme arrogance. It is one thing to trust in the Holy Spirit to lead us into all truth it is quite another to think that our opinions are ALL TRUTH.

I believe in the fivefold ministries, teacher included. Even among the motivational gifts of the Spirit (Romans 12:6-8) which are distributed to all human beings, not just christians, you find that people with a motivational gift of teacher are motivated to teach. Many school teachers and college professors have the motivational gift of teacher. They therefore are inclined to study and research because that is how God designed them. I don't disqualify what or who God qualifies. I have a motivational gift of teaching. But God also teaches me directly so that I don't have to rely on articles and books. As John said, we all have an anointing that teaches us so that we don't have to rely on what we read or hear. We read and listen, but we incline our ears to the Teacher Himself who, at the end of the day, is the only qualified teacher. This is why Jesus said to call no one teacher: it's not the title; it's the implication. The Holy Spirit is the Teacher. All other teachers are secondary. So it makes sense to lean first on the Holy Spirit.

As for thinking one's opinions are facts, I find that most people are thin-skinned and hard-hearted rather than tough-skinned and soft-hearted. They are easily offended. They live in a Me-World where they perceive things according to their own worldviews and emotions. They're too dependent on how people come across and not on how people in fact are. An example of this, which I've given before, is when I went to a church in 2006 where God uncovered to me four church members who were in fact satanists. He later uncovered to me two visiting ministers who were also satanists. After I reported this to the pastors and they prayed, God confirmed it to them and to others in the church. After I reported it. The pastors and church members were too concerned with how those six people came across. They received them based on that, but they were wrong. God had been trying to show them, before I came, that these people were satanists. But they lived in a Me-World like most people and judged people by their own individual feelings and preferences. I don't do that, therefore, when God showed me these people were satanists, I was able to see it since God directs believers to look on the heart and not the outward. So, I'm thrilled when especially christians say I'm arrogant. For one, I get along just fine with worldly people (non-christians), and that's where my heart and my calling are. And secondly, God knows I could care less what people think about me-- especially those who live in a Me-World, are easily offended, and think their opinions of others are in fact fact. Such people are ignorant and probably won't make a dent for the Kingdom in this life.

 

[SonsOfCaleb]

Their error was twofold.

1) That they thought there was no resurrection, they were wrong about that.

2) Their idea that if there was a resurrection then this scenario would require sorting out to determine who of the 7 would have her as a wife was an error in thinking. Because the children of the resurrection are not married. Nor do they have sex. They are like the angels. Its going to be a new world, new missions, new objectives. Marriage is not one of them. THANK GOD.

I know you haven't considered this, but I'll ask: have you considered that when Jesus responded to the Sadducees, He wasn't directly responded to their question as they asked it?

Here is one of the things many christians have problems with: the Bible is not always written in a way that is easy to understand. Most christians want everything to be easy which how all people naturally are. They want to be able to read the Bible and say, "I get it" every time. This just isn't the case in reality. The Book of Revelations is the best example of this. In both OT and NT, there are times when someone asked God something or said something to Him, and rather than responding directly to their query, He began to talk about something else entirely. This has happened to me enough times to be upsetting (truth be told). For example, in an Evernote journal entry, I wrote:

"Its 9/20/19, 4:18pm, on a Friday. About forty-five minutes ago, I went to pray over some points I noted yesterday for prayer, but I sensed God begin leading me in another direction for now."

I then wrote out the direction God was leading me in which was not at all the direction I had wanted to go. I wanted to pray about immediate circumstances, but God wanted to talk to me about His future plans for me. Those are two clearly different things. God does this all over the Bible. Have you considered that He was doing that when He responded to the Sadducees? Yes, I know. It's easier to just say, "Oh no, the way I would have it is that God speaks clearly all the time and the Bible is always saying what I think it's saying." Jesus told His disciples that He had some things to say to them that they couldn't bear but that the Holy Spirit would explain those things to them when He came. Many christians are still relying too much on their own ability to understand Scripture.

In Judges 13, Manoah (Samson's father) asked the visiting Angel his name. The Angel responded, "Why do you ask My name, seeing it is wonderful" (13:18). The Angel was not going to give Manoah the response he was asking for. In Psalm 131, David said, "Lord, my heart is not haughty nor my eyes loftty, neither do I concern myself with great matters, nor with things too lofty for me. Surely, I have calmed and quieted my soul, like a weaned child with his mother; like a weaned child is my soul within me." There are things that are too lofty for us that we're not going to figure out ourselves or by reading or even studying the Bible. For such things we have to wait for God to disclose them to us, otherwise we'll run with false answers or doctrines and not even know it.

I could find many instances in just the life of Jesus when people wanted one answer from Him and He gave them another or when someone said something to Him and He chose to change the subject. Consider that this was what happened here when Jesus talked to the Sadducees. They were already mistaken in their beliefs about a resurrection, so while they addressed their question to Him, their question didn't in fact address Him. So how could He respond to it? If you're male and someone asks you, "Why are you female?" or if you've been home all day and the next day someone asks you, "Why did you rob that bank yesterday?", they are addressing the question to you, but the question doesn't address you. How then can you give them the answer they are looking for?

But we don't want to make things 'too complicated'. We want to think we can read the Bible and somehow know what it's saying without waiting for God's revelation, because we don't have the patience or humility to sit around and let God tell us what He is saying. In Isaiah 55:8-9, God says, "As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts", but we believe we know His ways and His thoughts without waiting for Him to reveal them. How is this possible? Do ants understand human communication? But we understand God automatically because we're that smart. This is pride and arrogance, the 'haughty eyes and lofty thinking' David spoke about. christians need to stop simplifying the Bible where it's complex and complexifying the Bible where it's simple. Learn to wait and rely on God for interpretations. Human beings are not smart (I mean, watch how dogs operate). We need to relax. We don't know much. But God is willing to open things to us if we acknowledge our weaknesses. I haven't asked God what Jesus meant when He spoke to the Sadducees; but I have a great start: I know that I don't know what He meant. LOL.

 

[SonsOfCaleb]

Personally, I'm trending towards tier 1.

I asked Jesus to put me on Tier 1, but He told me it's not up to Him but the Father to decide who gets what Tier. So now I'm asking the Father.

 

[SimpleSheep]

There are two purposes for sex. Procreation and pleasure. I don't think we will need to reproduce in heaven and we definitely won't need any more pleasure than can be found in God alone. He will oversaturate our pleasure/joy meter that sex will be something that we won't care about when we're up there. If we make it up there that is.
Plus who would want to be doing that up there? I always assumed there won't be much privacy in heaven.

 

[SonsOfCaleb]

There are two purposes for sex. Procreation and pleasure. I don't think we will need to reproduce in heaven and we definitely won't need any more pleasure than can be found in God alone. He will oversaturate our pleasure/joy meter that sex will be something that we won't care about when we're up there. If we make it up there that is.
Plus who would want to be doing that up there? I always assumed there won't be much privacy in heaven.

Nothing wrong with assuming as long as you remain open to more information.

You said you don't think we'll need sex in eternity. Well, that's nice. There are many things we don't need that God gives us. Furthermore, there are many things we need on earth that we're not even aware that we need. God designs need into us, so we often need things we may not even know we need.

Whether one argues that Adam needed or didn't need Eve, God gave Eve to Adam. At the end of the day, it's about what God wants to give more than what we need, think we need, or want. If Adam even had a grid for thinking about needing another human being, he certainly didn't know what a woman was, so he couldn't even 'need' one and he certainly couldn't ask for one. God created Eve without Adam having to ask. He gives good things without our asking; surely, He's willing to give good things when we do ask.

Again, this OP wasn't written to push some doctrine or belief (as I never care to do that). But I do find it interesting that the people who say there is no sex in Heaven push it as 'their final answer'... whereas the people who say there is or may be sex in Heaven simply state it as their personal opinion. One side seems shut tight to realities outside their own awareness and intelligence while the other side seems open to increasing in their knowledge. That's interesting.

 

[Amanuensis]

Nothing wrong with assuming as long as you remain open to more information.

You said you don't think we'll need sex in eternity. Well, that's nice. There are many things we don't need that God gives us. Furthermore, there are many things we need on earth that we're not even aware that we need. God designs need into us, so we often need things we may not even know we need.

Whether one argues that Adam needed or didn't need Eve, God gave Eve to Adam. At the end of the day, it's about what God wants to give more than what we need, think we need, or want. If Adam even had a grid for thinking about needing another human being, he certainly didn't know what a woman was, so he couldn't even 'need' one and he certainly couldn't ask for one. God created Eve without Adam having to ask. He gives good things without our asking; surely, He's willing to give good things when we do ask.

Again, this OP wasn't written to push some doctrine or belief (as I never care to do that). But I do find it interesting that the people who say there is no sex in Heaven push it as 'their final answer'... whereas the people who say there is or may be sex in Heaven simply state it as their personal opinion. One side seems shut tight to realities outside their own awareness and intelligence while the other side seems open to increasing in their knowledge. That's interesting.

Jesus answered that question. Of course we should take it as the final answer.

Those who have other ideas and interpretations of what Jesus said must be able to support their interpretations using the rules of hermeneutics.

I really don't want to hear about a thousand ideas someone has brainstormed in a quest to find answers and learn. I only want to hear about the ones that they can support and articulate using hermeneutics to present a sound exegesis.

There is no learning in a lie. There is no learning in an idea that is not the right interpretation. You can spare me all of those. There is only learning in a valid supportable interpretation that complies with the rules of hermeneutics.

This is not open for debate.