Yes oyster67. Our Creator bore gruesome sins inflicted on him and still is willing to forgive. Thank you Lord Jesus.
The war in heaven
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it goes back to the fact that God gave mankind dominion on earth he doesn’t then say never mind , but instead when they receive dominion over all the earth Satan then corrupted them he could take over dominion through us
because he doesnt want to destroy us with Satan and his angels , he’s allowing time for the gospel to redeem his people from this creation in order for this to happen it has to be allowed to continue on even though it’s so corrupt there’s a parable Jesus tells about why he’s allowing it to go on like this
“So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.”
Matthew 13:27-30 KJV
e. He explains what he’s talking about
“He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; the field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; the enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; and shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.”
Matthew 13:37-43 KJV
he’s got a plan to destroy evil and exalt and restore good but his plan is how he’s done it in the Old Testament this was at Gods right hand
“Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.”
Deuteronomy 31:26 KJV
when Satan appeared to God among the sons of God it’s because he was accusing them by the law of sin and accusation against them
he was the accuser appearing before God against us accusing and condemning us
the New Testament when Jesus is seated in heaven is when he’s finally cast out of heaven for good when the king arrives and his kingdom in heaven was ordered Satan and his angels had no more place accusing us before God now at his right hand where the witness against us the law was we have him not accusing us but advocating for us and making intercession for all those accusations he made against us
“Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.”
Romans 8:34
It was just how his plan unfolded you see how his place declined from heavenly to earthly in between there was a time because of the law and mans sin the accuser had a place before God. Ow he has no more olace before God for us to be guilty we had to have an accuser and witness against us
and to be restored we have to have an advocate and intercessor
when Jesus went into heaven after he rose so much changed in the heavens and on earth
“And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.”
Revelation 12:10 KJV
“Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them.
Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.”
Revelation 12:12 KJV
for a time he walked earth corrupting man and appeared to accuse us in heaven , remembering he was once a member of heavens kingdom now heavens kingdom is restored and his part was trying to destroy Jesus before he completed the plan so he has no moser in the new heavenly order and kingdom not even to accuse us
because He [allowed] it.
if He did not allow it, would they have been able to do as such?
Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
Revelation 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
Revelation 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Revelation 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
Which would have had to have taken place AFTER
Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Job 38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
BUT BEFORE, and still yet future to us now
Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Revelation 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
No. It's plain from scripture how God is longsuffering evety day toward evil people and Jesus showed this mercy to sinners during his entire ministry,
they have rewarded me evil for good, and hatred for my love. Psa.109:5
of course it is Prophecy being fulfilled. but God also allowed Himself to be done as it was or creation could never do as such in their own ability towards God.
Right,
The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, Heb.1:3
I say to you, love your enemy and pray for those who persecute you.....so that you may be like your Father in heaven
Jn5:44-45
Both Satan and fallen angels have clearly still been operating in the heavenly realm throughout recorded Biblical history after the events recorded in Genesis chapter 6, and they will continue to do so until the actual timing of the war in the heavenlies during the midway point of Daniel's 70th week (Daniel chapter 9).
For example, in the book of Job, we read:
Job chapter 1
[6] Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
[7] And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
Again:
Job chapter 2
[1] Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
[2] And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
In both of these instances which occurred long after Genesis chapter 6, "the sons of God" or angels "came to present themselves BEFORE THE LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself BEFORE THE LORD".
Furthermore, in the prophet Daniel's day, we clearly see a war taking place in the heavenly realm between Gabriel and fallen angels. In fact, Michael the archangel had to come to help Gabriel win that battle:
Daniel chapter 10
[11] And he said unto me, O Daniel, a man greatly beloved, understand the words that I speak unto thee, and stand upright: for unto thee am I now sent. And when he had spoken this word unto me, I stood trembling.
[12] Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words.
[13] But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
[14] Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days.
[15] And when he had spoken such words unto me, I set my face toward the ground, and I became dumb.
[16] And, behold, one like the similitude of the sons of men touched my lips: then I opened my mouth, and spake, and said unto him that stood before me, O my lord, by the vision my sorrows are turned upon me, and I have retained no strength.
[17] For how can the servant of this my lord talk with this my lord? for as for me, straightway there remained no strength in me, neither is there breath left in me.
[18] Then there came again and touched me one like the appearance of a man, and he strengthened me,
[19] And said, O man greatly beloved, fear not: peace be unto thee, be strong, yea, be strong. And when he had spoken unto me, I was strengthened, and said, Let my lord speak; for thou hast strengthened me.
[20] Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come.
[21] But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.
Even after Christ's resurrection from the dead and ascension back to the Father's right hand in heaven, we are told exactly who we are fighting against:
Ephesians chapter 6
[10] Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
[11] Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
[12] For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Our present-day battle is "against spiritual wickedness IN HIGH PLACES" or "in heavenly places".
Satan and his angels have not yet been cast down.
As I said in my initial response, they will be cast down to this earth at the midway point of Daniel's 70th week (Daniel chapter 9). This casting down of Satan and his angels in the spiritual realm will coincide with the antichrist declaring himself to be God from within a coming rebuilt temple in Jerusalem in the natural realm.
Neither of these two events has happened yet.
The first account in Genesis does not mention any war... The angels left their first estate ( heaven ) came down and had offspring with human woman.. And for this God cast them into the Pit.. Now if we read the book of Job we see that at the time of Job satan and angels could travel from heaven to earth freely.. In nthe account God does not cast them down for going down.. The Angels where cast down into the pit because they messed with human woman..
Job 1:6-7 "¶ Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. {7} And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it."
Next we read in Genesis that this would happen multiple times..
Genesis 6:1-4 "And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, {2} That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. {3} And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. {4} There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown."
When do we next see giants mentioned in scriptures after that incident in genesis.. Note the flood killed all the giants of those times.. Now in the account of the Exodus when the Hebrews first went to the border of the promised land they sent in scouts to scout the land and brought back their report of giants..
Numbers 13:33 "And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight."
So God had liberated the Hebrews and guided them to the promised land to inherit it but also to destroy the giants in that land..
As far as the account in Revelation.. I believe the book of Revelation is a book of prophecy and when it says that the war in heaven will happen i believe it is still a future event.. It might be happening right now for all i know.. Because the account says that when satan and his angels are cast out of heaven they will be filled with wrath knowing that their time is short.. I believe satan and these angels will cause great tribulation upon humanity during the last hour.. Along with the ones that where cast into the bottomless pit in the book of Genisis, they will be released for a short time and will also cause great suffering upon people..
Revelation 12:9-12 "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. {10} And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. {11} And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. {12} Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."
Interesting, yes it has crossed my mind as to why Satan and the angels are cast down to earth, I mean God is sovereign and in complete control of what happens in His creation so the question is why did He not just throw them into the lake of fire and be done with the rebellious host? I think the bible does tell us why and what God uses them for on earth.
I think he sent serpents among Israel to make them look to their Messiah, the One who is coming to give them life, to the King who is coming to provide salvation, to the Prophet who is going to deliver them. The bronze serpent lifted up.
Israel were bitten by fiery serpents/demons and the Lord was raised and put on a pole, and those who looked to Him shall live.
This happened at the first coming, does it happen at the second coming as well? I believe it does.
The angels who sinned/locusts shall ascend out of the bottomless pit like smoke who are given power, yet not given authority to kill but to torment those on earth, again this is twofold in reason both for judgement on the earth and also its like a big giant neon sign flashing in the sky telling people to look to Jesus the Messiah and live.
The angels who sinned and kept not their proper abode have been reserved for this great and terrible day of judgment and wrath upon the earth.
Yes, I've also heard that same theory. God let Lucifer and the rebellious Angels to live in order to cause people to look to God for help against their slings and arrows.
I've always found it strange that Lucifer returned to heaven to confer with God about Jobs temptation.
I think a bit differently to most people, the intro and context in Job has how and why Job sacrificed to God which he regularly did, I think Lucifer had a role on earth as a priest in Ezekiel we are given an account of how he was adorned with precious stones, 3 rows out of four of the Aaronic priesthood, are described. (interestingly the missing stones point to Christ)
Anyway God asks Satan where he has been and its not going to and fro from heaven to earth, but upon the the earth, anyway why does he ask Job, I think Satan as a priest had a role which he wasn't doing properly anyway thats thats another topic.
I just think when those who presented a sacrifice to God did it on earth, so Job and those who came to offer sacrifices presented themselves to God, like we do on a sunday morning. Which is when God asks Satan if he has considered His servant Job.
Anyway I disagree with 99% of people who say this conversation took place in heaven, angels are continually in the presence of God, how can they present themselves before the Lord!
Lucifer in the priest role in the Book of Ezekiel is a new one for me. Interesting.
Lucifer did go out from the presence of God to begin tempting Job.
The Bible says there are 7 heavens. Maybe that has something to do with it?
Thanks, Live4Him The only thing I cant agree with is the fact that the timing seems specifically pointed to the first coming of Christ.
When I read verse 1-5 I see it like this. Revelation 12 is in regards to the woman who is Israel and how she relates to the last days.
Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
Rev 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
The first sign that is seen from heaven is Israel being with child,
Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
Followed by another sign, after the Lord left heaven to be born of a virgin it left an opportunity for Satan to ascend to the throne.
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God.
To which a third of the stars followed him in his rebellion. After being cast to earth they tried to devour the man child as soon as it was born, a massacre of children then ensued.
Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Which is followed by the ascension of Christ into heaven.
By my reasoning the war in heaven occurred sometime between Mary being with Child and the executions ordered by Herod.
As to my Opening Post, to me it also explains the demonic activity in the gospel accounts
Happy to be corrected, although I do put Satan in a unique category
I havnt actually heard of the seven heavens?
“I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows” (2 Corinthians 12:2)
The detailed 7 heavens is carried in Rabbinic literature.
https://www.biblestudy.org/question/seven-heavens.html