Sinning by NOT having Sex?

[JohnDB]

Other than what can be gleaned from the Bible, the actions and beliefs of the Pharisees are largely unknown to me. But the general idea of Jesus' attitude towards them was accusing them of hypocrisy, treating people differently from what their high-brow words would indicate. Another thing is - apparently, they didn't accept Jesus as the Messiah. I approach Christianity with a view that Jesus is the Messiah, the sinless proposition for sin

You are correct.

But what you might not know is that these guys weren't exactly self appointed. They were chosen by the communities they lived in to be religious leaders....because they were good guys. They followed the Law of God better than others around. And yes, they had a favoritism towards the wealthy...no different than people generally do today.

But you did hit on something key....

Jesus.

Now something that Jesus was here to demonstrate and explain was that NO ONE can keep the Law of God. (Except him because He is God)
We need a Savior. Jesus is that Savior by taking our punishment on himself....He alone is the perfect sacrifice for sins for all time.

And it's by faith in Jesus that we gain access to Heaven. (No one gets to boast that they are gooder than others) It's not by being a "good guy" because no one is good enough to get into Heaven.

Being a "friend " to Jesus is a long road.

It's a unique relationship that you (and each of us individually) have to have with him. Without that relationship....well, He does need to vouch for you in order to gain access. You don't want him to say "Who are you?" When the big moment comes.

Just saying. Jesus doesn't need you like you need him. And you might want to approach him with that attitude. He is good, kind, and forgiving....but He also is justice with ALL authority in Heaven and on Earth.

 

[presidente]

What type of ANIMAL would I need to be in order to desire/demand "sex" from my wife when she wasn't desiring the same at any given moment in time?

Animal? How about a normal man. For a lot of men, desiring sex doesn't depend on whether she wants it at that exact second. And in some marriages if both had to strongly desire sex at the exact same time, they would almost never have sex.

If you read the title, the thread isn't about getting your spouse to have sex with you, but having sex with your spouse. Sinning by not having sex is about turning your partner down, not your partner turning you down.

Back to the implicit accusation against men who want sex when their wives don't that they are animals, that's degrading to an awful lot of normal men who just have a regular sex drive. There are plenty of wives... and husbands also.... who could be better in this aspect of marriage if they would be willing to have sex when their partner wants it. Some women desire it after they have been 'warmed up' through some affection, and if they open themselves up, they can enjoy it. And there are probably plenty of men like that. I hear it's about 80% of men who want sex more than their wives and 20% of women who want sex more than their husbands. And things might shift with age. Few have exact same desire, and probably almost no couple have husband and wife with the exact same amount of desire for it at all times.

For example, I was married for 17 years, and, as I've testified here before, I learned that my now ex-wife had been repeatedly sexually molested by her own father between the ages of 5 and 6 years old. There were MANY TIMES when we were CONSENSUALLY going to MAKE LOVE, NOT "have sex", that she had flashbacks to what her father had done to her. Should I, leaning on I Corinthians 7:4 and many people's totally warped understanding of it, have demanded to "have sex" with my wife at those times?

I am sorry your wife had these difficulties. A husband who loves his wife would have to be patient about these things. Many woman... and men... who have not had the same trauma in their lives can be selfish about meeting their partner's needs.

A lot of us use 'have sex' in a way that is not exclusive of 'making love.' We aren't wooing women in the forum, so there is no need for the overly lovey-dovey language unless you just want to use it. We are talking about sexual intercourse.

Anyway, the focus of the thread is the idea that one can sin by defrauding one's partner, not how to extract more sex out of the other partner. Be that as it may, having one's marriage partner meet one's sexual needs can be helpful in that it can lessen temptation. Also 'two shall be one flesh' is a mystery that speaks of Christ and the church. That is one mystery some folks may which to frequently experientially meditate on in their marriage.

Having read the comments of many a different poster here on many a different thread, I honestly believe that many of them actually would have. If I just described anyone reading this, then let me tell you plainly that you're a sick, selfish animal.

I think you are being awfully judgmental. Do you think of sex in marriage as some kind of sort of evil carnal thing? Maybe I missed a post, but I did not see anyone coming down on the side of marital rape. Did someone post on how one should demand sex here that I didn't see?

Well, I never did. In fact, there were also MANY TIMES when I was thinking on my wife during my work day and feeling a bit, how shall I say, "amorous" towards her that I still refrained from any sort of sexual activity with her because I could see that she had had a long day and was tired.

Since you desired sex when she did not, did that make you an animal?

 

[Live4Him3]

Animal?

Yes, animal.

How about a normal man.

Define "normal".

By "normal", do you mean a typical man after the Fall, or do you mean a born-again Christian man who loves his wife as Christ loves the church?

There's a world of difference between the two or, at least, there should be.

For a lot of men, desiring sex doesn't depend on whether she wants it at that exact second. And in some marriages if both had to strongly desire sex at the exact same time, they would almost never have sex.

And if you ask me, or even if you don't, one major reason for this is because men don't treat their wives right throughout much of the day and only come around when they selfishly desire to "have sex" or to "get their rocks off".

If you've never encountered such men, then I truly believe that you and I are living on different planets.

A woman is more than just a body.

She's a spirit being, and she has a soul.

How many "normal" men spend any real time actually caring about and ministering to their wives' spiritual and emotional needs?

Is that concept offensive to you?

To me, it's "normal" from a born-again Christian's point of view.

Seeing how God's covenant with his people is likened to marriage all throughout scripture, where do you believe that God/Christ puts his emphasis in relation to his bride on a daily basis?

Is it primarily in relation to our spirits and souls, or is it primarily in relation to our bodies which won't be changed until the second coming of Jesus Christ?

My point is that if more men truly cared about their wives' spiritual and emotional needs, then it's highly probable that their wives would be a lot more amorous towards them than they presently may be.

If you read the title, the thread isn't about getting your spouse to have sex with you, but having sex with your spouse.

I read the title.

Did you read where I twice mentioned that I was talking about more than just this thread, or about "threads like this one", or "many a different thread here"?

Sinning by not having sex is about turning your partner down, not your partner turning you down.

"Sinning"?

Here's your opening text:

I Corinthians chapter 7

[3] Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
[4] The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.
[5] Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.

In the actual example that I gave where my ex-wife used to have flashbacks of being sexually molested by her own father, who would have been "sinning" if she and I didn't "mutually consent" to abstain from any sexual relations at those times?

Would it have been her, seeing how she was the one who didn't desire sexual relations at the time, or would it have been ME for not giving a hoot about my wife's spiritual and emotional needs while only desiring to use her body to fulfill my own desires?

Here's a clue:

It would have been ME, but, thankfully, I'm not an animal, but a born-again Christian man instead.

Had I had the terribly wrong mindset that she was "sinning" at such times, and had I somehow demanded my "conjugal rights" to "have sex", then I would have caused her major psychological damage.

Do YOU ever consider such things?

If you don't, then massive shame on you.

Back to the implicit accusation against men who want sex when their wives don't that they are animals, that's degrading to an awful lot of normal men who just have a regular sex drive.

Well, seeing how you conveniently separated my comment from its actual context, I suppose that you can make it sound as degrading as you want to.

By the way, I'm not a fan of the term "sex drive".

Demons "drive".

Every man that I've ever met who has what you might deem "a regular sex drive" has had a problem with pornography somewhere in his background.

I'm NOT saying that a man ought not have sexual desires towards his wife, but, again, his wife is more than just a body. If a man's primary focus is his wife's body, then there's something terribly wrong with him in my estimation, and I believe in God's estimation as well.

There are plenty of wives... and husbands also.... who could be better in this aspect of marriage if they would be willing to have sex when their partner wants it. Some women desire it after they have been 'warmed up' through some affection, and if they open themselves up, they can enjoy it. And there are probably plenty of men like that. I hear it's about 80% of men who want sex more than their wives and 20% of women who want sex more than their husbands. And things might shift with age. Few have exact same desire, and probably almost no couple have husband and wife with the exact same amount of desire for it at all times.

I'll keep my focus on men here.

There are MULTITUDES of men who need to learn to "nourish and cherish their wives" as Christ does in relation to the church. If they do, then, although I'm not a gambling man, I'd be willing to wager that their "sex lives" would increase dramatically.

I'll share with you an example from my past. I'm not proud of it in that I wasn't a Christian at that time, and in that it definitely falls under the category of fornication.

When I was 21 or 22 years old, one of my friends told me that his female friend wanted to "have sex" with me. I had had similar offers from other young women prior to this and after this, and I refused every single of one of them because I wasn't genuinely attracted to any of those women's hearts. This particular young woman, I liked. Anyhow, we did engage in sexual relations quite often, BUT she definitely wasn't used to a man like me. In other words, even before I became a Christian, I genuinely cared about what was in a woman's heart and mind, and that manifested itself constantly towards this young woman. I could tell that she was uncomfortable with it, but not in an offended sort of way, when I would spend time just holding her, or caressing her, or seeking to learn what was truly in her heart. As I did learn more about her, I started to do things like buy her gifts that I knew she would like, and she was definitely appreciative of the same, and I would have to say even more desirous than ever before to "have sex" with me...NOT that that was my motive. Again, the "sex" was already there. We eventually broke up because, as embarrassing as it is to say, my mother meddled in our relationship, and the young woman got totally turned off by the same.

Anyhow, I said all of that to say this:

EIGHT YEARS LATER, my phone rings, and it's this same young woman on the other end of the line. By this point in time, I had become a born-again Christian. I asked her why she was calling me after an 8 year hiatus, and I somehow knew exactly what her answer was going to be before she gave it. She told me that she was calling me because she had never met another man as passionate as me. Believe me, when she said "passionate", she most definitely was NOT simply referring to physical passion. Instead, she never met a man who actually cared for her spirit and soul in the manner that I did. We did meet once after that, but she didn't want to somehow rekindle our relationship after she learned that I had become a Christian. She was a Russian Jewess whose family had suffered much religious persecution while in Russia, and she was totally turned off by "religion".

I am sorry your wife had these difficulties. A husband who loves his wife would have to be patient about these things. Many woman... and men... who have not had the same trauma in their lives can be selfish about meeting their partner's needs.

Hey!

There you go.

We finally agree on something.

A lot of us use 'have sex' in a way that is not exclusive of 'making love.' We aren't wooing women in the forum, so there is no need for the overly lovey-dovey language unless you just want to use it. We are talking about sexual intercourse.

Oh, please.

In my own observations, I can say, without hesitation, that the VAST, VAST MAJORITY of "men" that I've personally met have no concept whatsoever of what it means to "make love" to a woman.

How to "have sex" or "get their rocks off"?

Sure.

Anyway, the focus of the thread is the idea that one can sin by defrauding one's partner, not how to extract more sex out of the other partner. Be that as it may, having one's marriage partner meet one's sexual needs can be helpful in that it can lessen temptation. Also 'two shall be one flesh' is a mystery that speaks of Christ and the church. That is one mystery some folks may which to frequently experientially meditate on in their marriage.

And that "mystery" has to do with a lot more than just desiring one's body.

 

[Live4Him3]

I think you are being awfully judgmental. Do you think of sex in marriage as some kind of sort of evil carnal thing? Maybe I missed a post, but I did not see anyone coming down on the side of marital rape. Did someone post on how one should demand sex here that I didn't see?

As I said in my original response, and as I've already reiterated here, my comments were based on many different threads that I've read and/or participated in. Had I been responding to a specific comment made here, I would have "quoted" the same.

No, I don't think of sex in marriage as some sort of evil thing UNLESS it's totally selfish in nature or unless it's ignoring or not even recognizing the other partner's spiritual and emotional needs as well.

Since you desired sex when she did not, did that make you an animal?

No, it did not.

I only would have been an animal if I had neglected my wife's spiritual and emotional needs at those times while selfishly seeking to fulfill some lust that was purely physical or carnal in nature.

Anyhow, I've said enough.

If you don't understand my points after this clarification of my initial comments, then I doubt that you ever will.

 

[birdie]

I read a comment on one of the forums here by a single person about doing something really bad, like having sex. It makes sense for a single person to think that. But for married folks, can't it be a sin to not have sex?

I Corinthians 7

3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.

4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.

5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.
(ESV)

Thanks presidente, for your question about sex. I would say that it is valuable and relevant to most persons to discuss sex questions and Christianity and probably should be done more on Christian Chat. However, it is such a nebulous and convoluted issue that it could also prove difficult to get a good grip on. First, I would say to talk to the Lord about your own needs and situation. Most persons (Christians included) deal with sex issues and relationship issues and marriage issues, and how much the ideal of marriage is attained among Christians probably varies. As we take our needs to the Lord, we develop a relationship with him at the very least. Based on the scripture you mention, it certainly seems to me that the ideal is for each partner in marriage to be willing to be there sexually for the other as much as possible and in whatever way their personalities allow. Imagine a partner feeling the temptation to seek sexual gratification elsewhere because the other partner is not available to them in their sexual need. That is probably why the scripture you mention is there in the Bible, to hopefully get each partner thinking about the other, to share each other's needs and burdens and so fulfill the law of Christ. But two people are involved, and so how readily a second person is willing to help or care may be problematic. Especially when two sexes are involved. Having said that, Christ did give an example of suffering for his bride's sake. Also, there seems to be an ideal in Christ of getting to a relationship beyond just lust. We read: "That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour; Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:" How close is anyone to this ideal, and what exactly does this describe? I am no expert, but perhaps some people find this easy to grasp.

 

[Ilive4Jesus]

@presidente

Did you not get the answer you wanted the first time you brought this topic up 2 years ago in this thread:
https://christianchat.com/christian-family-forum/the-sin-of-refusing-sex.192255/
(which btw for anyone reading, it was locked after a heated debate/argument)

Maybe this is something you would do better talking about with a Pastor instead of random strangers, since it seems like a serious long term, on going issue for you.

 

[presidente]

@presidente

Did you not get the answer you wanted the first time you brought this topic up 2 years ago in this thread:
https://christianchat.com/christian-family-forum/the-sin-of-refusing-sex.192255/
(which btw for anyone reading, it was locked after a heated debate/argument)

Hmm.

Maybe this is something you would do better talking about with a Pastor instead of random strangers, since it seems like a serious long term, on going issue for you.

Hmm. You found a way to turn this into a personal attack.

Some time back, if memory serves me correctly I accidentally posted that on the family forum instead of the Bible forum. There is some overlap but a bit different audience and a different perspective there. I thought it would be a good topic for a more 'Bible study' approach.

I am not responsible for tge bickering that apparently was the reason for the thread closing there.

 

[Shepherd]

I read a comment on one of the forums here by a single person about doing something really bad, like having sex. It makes sense for a single person to think that. But for married folks, can't it be a sin to not have sex?

I Corinthians 7

3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.

4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.

5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.
(ESV)

The Bible says your body belongs to your spouse. So if you "defraud" that means to "cheat" them out of what belongs to them. so, yeah, I would say that's a sin. However, to answer the other brother's question. The Bible also says to love your spouse. If one spouse "takes" or "forces" the other, then the command to "defraud not:" wouldn't be an issue because you're taking what you want anyhow. But to force your spouse is NOT loving. Actually, neither to "force" nor to continually "defraud" are loving. So yeah, again, both would be sins.

 

[TheNarrowPath]

I read a comment on one of the forums here by a single person about doing something really bad, like having sex. It makes sense for a single person to think that. But for married folks, can't it be a sin to not have sex?

I Corinthians 7

3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.

4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.

5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.
(ESV)

I dont understand what you are seeking?
Solutions for a sexless marriage or do you want us to agree it is a sin, therefore punishable?
Clearly you did not get answers the first time round...I just hope this thread is not used against a partner to guilt them into sex but can be used to look at oneself and see what the underlying issues are. I hope you can talk to a pastor like others have said since this seems to be an ongoing concern for you. All the best.

 

[presidente]

No, I don't think of sex in marriage as some sort of evil thing UNLESS it's totally selfish in nature or unless it's ignoring or not even recognizing the other partner's spiritual and emotional needs as well.

Let's clarify a bit. I focused on your post about a man who would 'desire/demand' sex when his wife didn't want it to imply that men desiring sex were animals to mean a man having sexual desire when his wife did not made him an 'animal.'

And we are all either equally animals, or not animals. Becoming Christians doesn't change that. If you meant that in the Latin sense of 'animal', a creature that breathes, we all took a breath of air after we got baptized. You confess your faith in Jesus, and you still breath. If you mean it as 'non-human living creatures', even murderers are still human.

I took you comments as being degrading toward men just for having a sex drive. They also take the whole issue of a denied spouse rather lightly. There are people in sexless marriages, defined as sex once a month or less. That's a big deal for a young healthy company where one of them wants more. A man having physical desire for his wife is not an 'animal'-- no more than you are, for having it.

No, it did not.

I only would have been an animal if I had neglected my wife's spiritual and emotional needs at those times while selfishly seeking to fulfill some lust that was purely physical or carnal in nature.

If a woman is molested or raped and goes through trauma, and gets married, she should realize before she gets married that she is going into a situation where she takes on herself some 'sexual responsibility' for her husband. If she finds the whole experience traumatic, then hopefully she will have some older godly women in the community she could talk too, possibly even relatives, who can give her advice. She should try to get the help and healing she needs to heal so she can serve her husband in this area. I suspect a lot of women, even Christian women, going into marriage, who go into marriage without hearing about having a responsibility in this area, also.

I would encourage a husband in that situation to be loving and patient. I haven't see anyone in any of the threads around here who would encourage raping one's wife, not that I recall. I don't think I've seen a post encouraging a spouse to __demand__ sex as I have pointed out. I have seen a female poster tell other female posters that sex with their husbands was something they should do in marriage, and to take I Corinthians 7 seriously.

I'm wondering, whether you use the term or not, you think that masculinity is 'toxic', or that men and their sex drive is bad, and women are good.

If a young Christian married man was sitting around on the sofa watching sports or playing video games, and you found out his wife was crying herself to sleep at night because her groom rarely wanted to sleep with him, would you say the woman was an 'animal'? Wouldn't you encourage the young man to shut off the TV and step up to the plate in the arena of amorous activity with his wife?

If you don't understand my points after this clarification of my initial comments, then I doubt that you ever will.

Your approach to this conversation is very antagonistic.

 

[presidente]

@Live4Him3

And if you ask me, or even if you don't, one major reason for this is because men don't treat their wives right throughout much of the day and only come around when they selfishly desire to "have sex" or to "get their rocks off".

Probably. And another reason is because a wife sits around watching soap operas or petting her dogs... or maybe sewing, canning food, and making soap and candles, but doesn't save energy or pay attention to the sexual aspect of marriage. And there are men out there who play video games until late and then don't want to have sex with their wives. I've heard of this very scenario. Of course, there are men who watch porn who have no sex lives with their wives, and maybe even women who destroy their sex lives in this way. There are lots of marriage problems out there. There is no one cookie cutter solution. But we do have teachings of the scriptures on this issue.

If you've never encountered such men, then I truly believe that you and I are living on different planets.

How am I going to encounter a man spending all day showing no affection to his wife, and then trying to sleep with her. I don't hide behind people's sofas and under their beds. Now you might read a wife's complaint on the Internet if that's a problem. But, like with a man's complaints, it's only one side of the story.

A woman is more than just a body.

She's a spirit being, and she has a soul.

Okay. And that might be an issue in __ some__ marriages. I am rather certain this is not at the root of all sexual problems in marriage.

You would agree, wouldn't you, that even though women have bodies, souls, and spirits, that husbands and wives should not defraud one another, right?

How many "normal" men spend any real time actually caring about and ministering to their wives' spiritual and emotional needs?

I haven't surveyed

Is that concept offensive to you?

Grown men your age should not slap little five-year-olds in the face with a giant fish.
Is that concept offensive to you?
Do you slap kids with fish?
In the face?
Little five-year-olds?

Oh wait a minute. You haven't given me any reason to think you slapped kids in the face with giant fish. And I haven't given you any reason to think that I do not believe women have bodies souls and spirits. I haven't given you any reason to think I believe men should chase their wives around just for their bodies and care nothing about their needs or their soul or spirit. Why the antagonistic approach?

{quote]
Seeing how God's covenant with his people is likened to marriage all throughout scripture, where do you believe that God/Christ puts his emphasis in relation to his bride on a daily basis?

Is it primarily in relation to our spirits and souls, or is it primarily in relation to our bodies which won't be changed until the second coming of Jesus Christ?[/quote]

I am wondering what this line of posting has to do with anything I posted, or other posters for that matter. Someone suggested a preacher was against the idea of marital rape, but others clarified.

But 'two shall be one flesh' speaks of the mystery of Christ and the church. This is something that goes on in the physical creation that speaks of the mystery of spiritual reality.

Of course, eternal things are more important. But matter is not evil, and the body will be transformed in the resurrection to something immortal and incorruptible. And there is no marriage nor giving in marriage in the resurrection.

My point is that if more men truly cared about their wives' spiritual and emotional needs, then it's highly probable that their wives would be a lot more amorous towards them than they presently may be.

Okay, that could be the case for a lot of marriage, but not so much the case for other marriages.

"Sinning"?

Here's your opening text:

I Corinthians chapter 7

[3] Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
[4] The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.
[5] Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.

In the actual example that I gave where my ex-wife used to have flashbacks of being sexually molested by her own father, who would have been "sinning" if she and I didn't "mutually consent" to abstain from any sexual relations at those times?

Would it have been her, seeing how she was the one who didn't desire sexual relations at the time, or would it have been ME for not giving a hoot about my wife's spiritual and emotional needs while only desiring to use her body to fulfill my own desires?

Given some of your rather antagonistic comments earlier, I'll try not to deal too directly with your own former situation. I would like to ask if you are a widower.

Like I said before, a man in this situation must be very patient with his wife. The husband's responsibility is to love his wife as Christ loved the church. Those questions you are asking would probably be more suitable for your wife to consider herself.

If a husband or wife is cut off from sex by their partner, especially if they are both believers and have common ground, it is reasonable that the defrauded spouse would point out the problem to the one who shut off the sexual relationship and tell them that is not acceptable, or figure out what is wrong, or have a serious talk about whatever the situation is.

I recall reading that the first case of excommunication for church discipline in the US colonies was in Massachusetts, a case in which a man was removed from the congregation for refusing to copulate with his wife. Those Puritan/Separatist types must have taken this rather seriously.

Had I had the terribly wrong mindset that she was "sinning" at such times, and had I somehow demanded my "conjugal rights" to "have sex", then I would have caused her major psychological damage.

Who was it who told you to demand your conjugal rights? Is this the topic of the thread? Did I suggest this in the OP? The thread was designed to be more helpful to those in your wife's situation and just to raise the Biblical topic for discussion. I cannot control where a thread will go. I can try, but that's it.

A husband in your situation might have a serious talk with his wife explaining this is a serious issue and discuss what she could do to get help and feeling healing so they could overcome a problem in marriage.

Do YOU ever consider such things?

If you don't, then massive shame on you.

I could also say, "It is wrong to slap five-year-olds in the face with fish. Have you considered such things. If not, shame on you."

But to accuse you, seriously, of something without evidence would be foolish wouldn't it? I have already said two, maybe four times, in this thread, that the purpose of the thread isn't to tell men to demand sex from their wives. Paul doesn't say to married people in I Corinthians 7 to go demand sex now!

As fellow believers, we can confront one another if there is sin or a shortcoming. Married couples should discuss their marriage issues. That's a normal thing.

Well, seeing how you conveniently separated my comment from its actual context, I suppose that you can make it sound as degrading as you want to.

I wasn't trying to misrepresent anything. My impression was that you were presenting male sex drive as animalistic. It also probably wasn't a very uplifting post if we had any posters, either sex but especially male, whose spouse was cutting him/her off from sex.

By the way, I'm not a fan of the term "sex drive".

You seem to not be a fan of a lot of terminology that would normally be used in this context. There are a lot of other people here, and sentences would come out rather odd and communication could be difficult if I tried to avoid words and phrases you do not like. So you can plug in more palatable words in your mind if you read my posts.

Demons "drive".

So do most Americans who have automobiles. A lot of people have a drive in their careers.

Every man that I've ever met who has what you might deem "a regular sex drive" has had a problem with pornography somewhere in his background.

How do you know what I consider a normal sex drive?

I just ran a Google search and it said that 98% of men surveyed had used porn in the past month. That seems way too high. It was from Psychology Today, but I suspect there was a selection error with the sample. Be that as it may, if you are going to find men in the US who never viewed porn, especially if you include rated R movies that have scenes designed to arouse sexual interest, you'll probably have to go to the Amish communities. Have you yourself never seen any scenes or pictures of naked women in your whole life?

 

[presidente]

@Live4Him3

I'm NOT saying that a man ought not have sexual desires towards his wife, but, again, his wife is more than just a body. If a man's primary focus is his wife's body, then there's something terribly wrong with him in my estimation, and I believe in God's estimation as well.

Okay, well, does that really contradict anything any other poster has said? Has anyone ever said the most important thing about a woman is her body anywhere on this forum, ever? Or something along those lines?

There are MULTITUDES of men who need to learn to "nourish and cherish their wives" as Christ does in relation to the church. If they do, then, although I'm not a gambling man, I'd be willing to wager that their "sex lives" would increase dramatically.

Maybe, but I wouldn't take a bet if I were a gambling man, because women are sinners too. Jesus is a perfect husband, but the seven churches weren't perfectly faithful in Revelation. If a woman is not as diligent or affectionate as she should be in the bedroom in showing affection, that doesn't necessarily mean that the man is at fault. If a man isn't as diligent or affectionate as he should be in the bedroom, that doesn't necessarily mean the woman is at fault.

In my own observations, I can say, without hesitation, that the VAST, VAST MAJORITY of "men" that I've personally met have no concept whatsoever of what it means to "make love" to a woman.

If you aren't hanging around during copulation and the private affectionate moments before and after, how would you know?

 

[presidente]

I dont understand what you are seeking?
Solutions for a sexless marriage or do you want us to agree it is a sin, therefore punishable?
Clearly you did not get answers the first time round...I just hope this thread is not used against a partner to guilt them into sex but can be used to look at oneself and see what the underlying issues are. I hope you can talk to a pastor like others have said since this seems to be an ongoing concern for you. All the best.

I was hoping posters like yourself, if you are married, would read the passage quoted in the OP and know that you are not supposed to defraud your partner.

You can talk with a pastor about this if you want to.

Btw, my wife doesn't usually read forums like this, especially in English.

 

[presidente]

If a young Christian married man was sitting around on the sofa watching sports or playing video games, and you found out his wife was crying herself to sleep at night because her groom rarely wanted to sleep with him,

I wanted to point out that should be 'sleep with her' not 'sleep with him.' I would hope my wording error would be obvious from context, but in this day an age, I cannot be so sure.

 

[presidente]

Psalm 5:19 Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love.

 

[TheNarrowPath]

I was hoping posters like yourself, if you are married, would read the passage quoted in the OP and know that you are not supposed to defraud your partner.

You can talk with a pastor about this if you want to.

Btw, my wife doesn't usually read forums like this, especially in English.

I dont have a problem with your OP/question. However I think your intentions are somewhat deceptive. Your recent replies are going around in circles. You cant post the same thread two years later and it not be personal for you. You could have used a personal pov and more people would be understanding. Just say youre having issues in your sex life. Then we can pray on that.

 

[presidente]

I dont have a problem with your OP/question. However I think your intentions are somewhat deceptive. Your recent replies are going around in circles. You cant post the same thread two years later and it not be personal for you. You could have used a personal pov and more people would be understanding. Just say youre having issues in your sex life. Then we can pray on that.

I wonder if the reason you think someone would post on this topic is because of sex life issues is because of your own personal issues and you like to project onto others. My own wife doesn't read forums like this so your rather rude personal assumptions as to my motives make little sense.

My wife and I have been married for over 20 years, our first and only marriage for both of us, both virgins at marriage. From surveys I've looked at, I think we have higher than average sexual frequency.

This issue is a problem in a lot of marriages apparently, and it is a Biblical topic. I do not think I have heard a sermon IRL that addresses the topic. A lot of Christians are not taught it.

 

[Blade]

Well for me in a marriage my body is hers and hers is mine. I can do what ever I want God will say nothing yet its God that said "And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

So up to the one to decide if God told them what they should be doing or not. God means what He says and says what He means. So if He told me to.. I will want to obey

 

[Dirtman]

Related to this subject, what about taking your share of sex from your partner? Pastor Steven Anderson said men and women are entitled to use of their partners' bodies. He said it is a safeguard against straying.
A question regarding this, 'though is - If a partner refuses to have sex, is the other entitled to use force?
I'm not sure of Anderson's position on this, but he does not recognise marital rape.
I'd be interested in others' opinions.

No. You may not use force. You may seek marriage counseling from your pastor.

 

[Dirtman]

I don't know if you've heard of Steven Anderson or if you've heard him speak on this topic, but he says that women and men have access to each others' bodies. He didn't go into whether force is justifiable in the case of refusal and I suspect he doesn't believe it would be, but as it's stated in the Bible, I wonder if it be the logical conclusion.

There are other passages in the Bible as well. Ones that dictate how we treat each other.
If one partner is refusing sex to the other, there is a serious problem that needs resolved. A good pastor counselor will help you sort it out. He may not allow you to the Lords Supper until the overt sin is resolved, but thats good for you. You will appreciate it later.