Were Nephilim (Gen 6) judged differently by God?

[Evmur]

Brother Evmur - only in thier original spiritual state are angels/sons of God nonsexual beings. Reproduction was only created by God for this realm on earth = the flesh.
Angels are a Higher Creation then man. Thus we mortals look forward to the Resurrection when we also will be Translated into the Likeness of the Son of God = just as the LORD said.

In Genesis ch6 and confirmed in Jude we see how some angels forsook/abandoned their spiritual domain and came to earth taking on physical bodies by which they were then able to procreate with = "the daughters of men".

God made this very clear distinction in Genesis ch6 by the precise use of words = "the sons of God saw the daughters of men"
Jude confirms exactly this rebellion by these angels and why they have been locked up while the vast majority of fallen angels are still roaming about in rebellion serving satan for the final battle that is coming.

Satan has been orchestrating a repeat of Genesis chapter 6 but in with a different approach/method since he knows he cannot send angels as before. This is recorded in the book of Daniel.
This end time deception is part of the lying wonders spoken of in 2 Thessalonians ch2.

ALSO = Jude is in fact saying that the angels violated their spiritual status by coming to earth and going after "strange flesh" which for them was cohabitating with the "daughters of men".
Reproduction/sexual union was created for the flesh, on this earth. For angels to abandon their spiritual status and take on human form, they rebelled against the parameters set forth by God and in so doing polluted the entire planet = "all flesh has been corrupted before Me" = therefore the LORD said: "I will destroy all flesh" whereby only Noah was genetically pure before God.

Peace

Woah

How often you admonish us not to add our "figgering outs" to the word of God but that is exactly what you have done

You say the bible says the angels forsook their proper domain and came to earth taking on physical bodies by which they were then able to procreate with the daughters of men.

It's all a MASSIVE conjecture.

Where would they get the power to create these physical bodies against the will of God?

There is a danger in taking Enoch as scripture for it seems like a heady mixture of scripture and legend not dissimilar to the book of Mormon.

 

[DavidTree]

Woah

How often you admonish us not to add our "figgering outs" to the word of God but that is exactly what you have done

You say the bible says the angels forsook their proper domain and came to earth taking on physical bodies by which they were then able to procreate with the daughters of men.

It's all a MASSIVE conjecture.

Where would they get the power to create these physical bodies against the will of God?

There is a danger in taking Enoch as scripture for it seems like a heady mixture of scripture and legend not dissimilar to the book of Mormon.

Brother Evmur, Good Morning and thank you for the "woah now"

God said clearly in His Word, adding no conjecture of my own.

Here in Genesis ch6 we have angels(sons of God) cohabitating with "daughters of men" = marriage
Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, 2that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose.

Jude confirms the sexual union that took place between the angels who came to earth to do this:
But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.
6And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire

 

[Shepherd]

Brother Evmur, Good Morning and thank you for the "woah now"

God said clearly in His Word, adding no conjecture of my own.

Here in Genesis ch6 we have angels(sons of God) cohabitating with "daughters of men" = marriage
Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, 2that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose.

Jude confirms the sexual union that took place between the angels who came to earth to do this:
But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.
6And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire

The Book of Jude is addressing the problem of "certain men crept in unawares". It then compares these "certain men" to three (3) different groups from the Old Testament. It specifically says which of those 3 groups went "after strange flesh". You even put it in bold.

3 groups:
#1 The angels "despised dominion"
#2 The Israelites who murmured against Moses "spake evil of diginites"
#3 he homosexual Sodomites "defiled the flesh".
What you are doing is trying to do is put the "going after strange flesh" sin on the angels when, in reality, the Book of Jude clearly says it was the Sodomites who were doing that.

 

[DavidTree]

The Book of Jude is addressing the problem of "certain men crept in unawares". It then compares these "certain men" to three (3) different groups from the Old Testament. It specifically says which of those 3 groups went "after strange flesh". You even put it in bold.

3 groups:
#1 The angels "despised dominion"
#2 The Israelites who murmured against Moses "spake evil of diginites"
#3 he homosexual Sodomites "defiled the flesh".
What you are doing is trying to do is put the "going after strange flesh" sin on the angels when, in reality, the Book of Jude clearly says it was the Sodomites who were doing that.

ALL Three committed sexual immorality and the reason why they are grouped TOGETHER for the MESSAGE from the FATHER.

ALL Three ABANDONNED their lawful domain/position and committed sexual immorality.

ALL Three are combined in one MESSAGE to illustrate for us the same Judgment upon them = FIRE

“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

Peace to you from the LORD Jesus Christ

 

[Evmur]

Brother Evmur, Good Morning and thank you for the "woah now"

God said clearly in His Word, adding no conjecture of my own.

Here in Genesis ch6 we have angels(sons of God) cohabitating with "daughters of men" = marriage
Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, 2that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose.

Jude confirms the sexual union that took place between the angels who came to earth to do this:
But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.
6And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire

No it's conjecture

I understand it to mean the sons of Seth, who were the church, taking the daughters of Cain a sin we see repeated over and over in the OT. Now that is MY read upon it so can be said to be conjecture.

The question to be answered is by what power did these fallen angel develop the creative ability to procreate against God's will?

 

[Shepherd]

Another question: if all the Nephilim were killed off in the flood, which they were, why do we find more in the Book of Numbers?

Num 13:33
And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the angels cohabiting with women: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.

No, of course it doesn't say that. It says:
Num 13:33
And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.

Same word as in Genesis 6: נְפִיל nᵉphîyl "Nephilim" same type of beings.
So, did angels "cohabit" with women in Numbers too? Even though it only says these were "sons of Anak, which come of the Giants"? Remember, these nephilim could not have come from the ones in Genesis 6 because they all died in the flood.

 

[Evmur]

The Book of Jude is addressing the problem of "certain men crept in unawares". It then compares these "certain men" to three (3) different groups from the Old Testament. It specifically says which of those 3 groups went "after strange flesh". You even put it in bold.

3 groups:
#1 The angels "despised dominion"
#2 The Israelites who murmured against Moses "spake evil of diginites"
#3 he homosexual Sodomites "defiled the flesh".
What you are doing is trying to do is put the "going after strange flesh" sin on the angels when, in reality, the Book of Jude clearly says it was the Sodomites who were doing that.

I'm with you. I think Jude is simply making reference to 3 diverse groups who rebelled against God ... I am arguing against the idea that the angels took up with women.

 

[Shepherd]

Here's how I believe God dealt with the "Nephilim".
The Bible says that Noah was "a preacher of Righteousness"(2 Peter 2:5) So I believe those Nephilim heard that preaching, or at least heard of it, and unfortunately rejected it of their own free will.. They were simply large /tall/ fierce men, the same type of men which are recorded in Numbers chapter 13. Unfortunately, they did not obey the preaching, but when judgement day comes, they will be without excuse just like everyone else who chose not to believe.
But what is tripping some people up on this, is that they have it stuck in their minds that "Nephilim" can only be some kind of hybrid between angelic beings and humans. Some preacher somewhere told you this and you hold onto it without question. It's never good to take what men say. instead of studying the Word of God for yourself. Question everything men say. Always. Even me.

 

[Shepherd]

I'm with you. I think Jude is simply making reference to 3 diverse groups who rebelled against God ... I am arguing against the idea that the angels took up with women.

Thanks, I only mentioned the Book of Jude because it is almost invariably referenced as a proof text whenever this subject comes up; as it was earlier in this thread.

 

[DavidTree]

No it's conjecture

I understand it to mean the sons of Seth, who were the church, taking the daughters of Cain a sin we see repeated over and over in the OT. Now that is MY read upon it so can be said to be conjecture.

The question to be answered is by what power did these fallen angel develop the creative ability to procreate against God's will?

Dear Brother Evmur,
What you just posted here about "sons of Seth" is 100% conjecture.

Preponderance of Evidence #1 = Bring forth a single scripture that declares the sons of Seth as the sons of God in Genesis.

Preponderance of Evidence #2 = Bring forth a single scripture that declares "the daughters of men" is specific to daughters of Cain.

This is your challenge to find the Truth, in the Scripture without conjecture.

Peace

 

[Evmur]

Dear Brother Evmur,
What you just posted here about "sons of Seth" is 100% conjecture.

Preponderance of Evidence #1 = Bring forth a single scripture that declares the sons of Seth as the sons of God in Genesis.

Preponderance of Evidence #2 = Bring forth a single scripture that declares "the daughters of men" is specific to daughters of Cain.

This is your challenge to find the Truth, in the Scripture without conjecture.

Peace

yes but neither can you prove that the sons of God are angels

 

[Shepherd]

Dear Brother Evmur,
What you just posted here about "sons of Seth" is 100% conjecture.

Preponderance of Evidence #1 = Bring forth a single scripture that declares the sons of Seth as the sons of God in Genesis.

Preponderance of Evidence #2 = Bring forth a single scripture that declares "the daughters of men" is specific to daughters of Cain.

This is your challenge to find the Truth, in the Scripture without conjecture.

Peace

There is no scripture which "declares" this directly. The Bible says to "compare scripture with scripture" to rightly divide the word of truth. So, here goes.......


The "Word", Jesus Christ, was in the beginning, and He was God
John 1: 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.


One becomes a "son of God" just by believing on His name
John 1:12
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.


One must believe on the Lord first, in order to "call on Him"
Romans 10: 14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?


The "sons of God" became such, because they believed and called upon the name of the Lord way back in Genesis 4Genesis 4:26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.


The sons of God include the named individuals in Genesis 5 and they are ancestors in the lineage of Christ.

Let's zero in on one of these individuals named "Enoch", who "walked with God" so close, that God translated him. He never had to die. Jesus even said "no man cometh unto the father but by me" Enoch was a believer on this "Word" who was "In the beginning". That made him a "son of God". It all ties together. Enoch is named in Genesis 5 but he was alive and walking with God DURING the time period spoken about in Genesis 6. How could he not been a "son of God"? A son of God is a believer.

Genesis 6 is the summary and conclusion of the events and individuals from Genesis 4 through 5. All of the individuals named in Genesis 4 and 5 are also being spoken about in Genesis 6

 

[DavidTree]

yes but neither can you prove that the sons of God are angels

My Brother Evmur in Christ, who i am blessed to break bread with, the Scripture Itself clearly defined that angels are sons of God.

"Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. But even Moses showed in the burning bush passage that the dead are raised, when he called the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ For He is not the God of the dead but of the living, for all live to Him.”
Luke 20:34-38

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. 7And the Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?”
Job chapter 1

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

I have no dog in this fight, but have a book just behind me that is written by L.A. Marzulli who bases 80% of his ministry on this subject. I've had meals with the man and sat next to him at a campfire talking about these subjects. This was what I was taught in a Bible Institute too as a young believer.
I've gone both ways on this issue over the years and started out thinking that Sons of God were angels, mainly because that is what my two first pastors taught me. After I did a few in-depth studies with a genuinely open mind, I realized that I had to fill in blanks and make presumptions that the Bible did not teach.
Here's a one minute short on the topic that I think is worthy of everyone's consideration.

Nephilim in the Bible

 

[DavidTree]

I have no dog in this fight, but have a book just behind me that is written by L.A. Marzulli who bases 80% of his ministry on this subject. I've had meals with the man and sat next to him at a campfire talking about these subjects. This was what I was taught in a Bible Institute too as a young believer.
I've gone both ways on this issue over the years and started out thinking that Sons of God were angels, mainly because that is what my two first pastors taught me. After I did a few in-depth studies with a genuinely open mind, I realized that I had to fill in blanks and make presumptions that the Bible did not teach.
Here's a one minute short on the topic that I think is worthy of everyone's consideration.

Nephilim in the Bible

There is no filling in the blanks with Scripture that clearly stated these are fallen angels.

Whenever you seek to explain it any other way you are making conjectures and adding/taking away from "it is written.

Religion will always do this = deny the clear evidence of Scripture so that the religion can have the preminance.

Nothing has changed since the day satan said "did God really say............

There is no scripture which "declares" this directly. The Bible says to "compare scripture with scripture" to rightly divide the word of truth. So, here goes.......


The "Word", Jesus Christ, was in the beginning, and He was God
John 1: 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.


One becomes a "son of God" just by believing on His name
John 1:12
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.


One must believe on the Lord first, in order to "call on Him"
Romans 10: 14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?


The "sons of God" became such, because they believed and called upon the name of the Lord way back in Genesis 4Genesis 4:26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.


The sons of God include the named individuals in Genesis 5 and they are ancestors in the lineage of Christ.

Let's zero in on one of these individuals named "Enoch", who "walked with God" so close, that God translated him. He never had to die. Jesus even said "no man cometh unto the father but by me" Enoch was a believer on this "Word" who was "In the beginning". That made him a "son of God". It all ties together. Enoch is named in Genesis 5 but he was alive and walking with God DURING the time period spoken about in Genesis 6. How could he not been a "son of God"? A son of God is a believer.

Genesis 6 is the summary and conclusion of the events and individuals from Genesis 4 through 5. All of the individuals named in Genesis 4 and 5 are also being spoken about in Genesis 6

Saying: "there is no scripture which declares this" is denying the word of God = the religious standard.

Jude is irrefutable except to unbelievers/doubters/religion.

"Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. But even Moses showed in the burning bush passage that the dead are raised, when he called the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ For He is not the God of the dead but of the living, for all live to Him.”
Luke 20:34-38

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them.
And the Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?”
Job chapter 1

Although you are fully aware of this, I want to remind you that after the Lord had delivered His people out of the land of Egypt, He destroyed those who did not believe. And the angels who did not stay within their own domain but abandoned their proper dwelling—these He has kept in eternal chains under darkness, bound for judgment on that great day.
In like manner, Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, who indulged in sexual immorality and pursued strange flesh, are on display as an example of those who sustain the punishment of eternal fire.
Jude ch1

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

I respectfully disagree about the phrase "sons of God." That is a presumptive theory that Genesis is speaking of that term being angels. I am a son of God since I was born again into the family of God through faith in Christ. I am not an angelic being. I was a son of man as all of us are. A person believes the gospel and is adopted into the beloved.

 

[DavidTree]

I respectfully disagree about the phrase "sons of God." That is a presumptive theory that Genesis is speaking of that term being angels. I am a son of God since I was born again into the family of God through faith in Christ. I am not an angelic being. I was a son of man as all of us are. A person believes the gospel and is adopted into the beloved.

Your argument is against the very clear words of the LORD Jesus Christ.

This you have CORRECT = We only become "sons of God" thru the Holy Spirit when we are Born Again = John 1: 9-13, John 3:1-7
Angels were created as "sons of God" being in the spiritual realm before God.


SEE Post 295

 

[Diakonos]

What you just posted here about "sons of Seth" is 100% conjecture.

yes but neither can you prove that the sons of God are angels

Angels are called "the sons of God" 3 times in Job.
The Hebrew phrase בְּנֵ֥י אֱלֹהִֽים (bene elohim) always refers to angels in Scripture.



Every occurrence takes place in heaven. Ch 38 mentions them as being present at the creation when God established the cornerstone of the earth (vs 6), which could not be later than day 3 of creation. These are not humans because humans weren't created until day 6.

The בְּנֵ֥י אֱלֹהִֽים are not humans. I'm not borrowing from Enoch to identify this truth. It's right out of the Bible.

 

[DavidTree]

Angels are called "the sons of God" 3 times in Job.
The Hebrew phrase בְּנֵ֥י אֱלֹהִֽים (bene elohim) always refers to angels in Scripture.

View attachment 241977

Every occurrence takes place in heaven. Ch 38 mentions them as being present at the creation when God established the cornerstone of the earth (vs 6), which could not be later than day 3 of creation. These are not humans because humans weren't created until day 6.

The בְּנֵ֥י אֱלֹהִֽים are not humans. I'm not borrowing from Enoch to identify this truth. It's right out of the Bible.

THANK YOU Dear Brother for posting this = Beautiful work in bringing forth Truth.

 

[Evmur]

Angels are called "the sons of God" 3 times in Job.
The Hebrew phrase בְּנֵ֥י אֱלֹהִֽים (bene elohim) always refers to angels in Scripture.

View attachment 241977

Every occurrence takes place in heaven. Ch 38 mentions them as being present at the creation when God established the cornerstone of the earth (vs 6), which could not be later than day 3 of creation. These are not humans because humans weren't created until day 6.

The בְּנֵ֥י אֱלֹהִֽים are not humans. I'm not borrowing from Enoch to identify this truth. It's right out of the Bible.

I'm sorry it says the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord and Satan also came with them ... it does not say Satan was one of 'em ... you saying Satan is a son of God?.

Hebrews specifically says of angels "to which of them did God ever say thou art My son? ... are they not all messengers and servant?

Psalms I agree is a tougher one but it is not conclusively referring to angels. I don't like to be pernickety but verse 7 does not need to be sequential, I admit that most commentators take them to mean angels.

This does not answer my question

How did these fallen angels acquire the ability to create the necessary capability to procreate with women against the will of God?