The offer of Salvation is universal, but the application is only : "by Faith".

[ForestGreenCook]

and He said.....>"where is your FAITH">
He didnt say...>"ok, let me give you some faith".

The apostles had spiritual faith, they just don't exercise it at times, as we are all the same as they at times.

The natural, un-regenerant, man only has faith in himself and his accomplishments. He has no spiritual faith, which is a fruit of the Holy Spirit (Gal 5:22), Given by God to indwell in a person when he quickens them to the new spiritual life by his sovereign grace (Eph 2:1-5).

 

[Bluesproverb]

This is why I believe we cannot become upset with the natural man and woman who insist their doctrine supersedes the spiritual one from God.

When they resort to name calling, not that of making the charge of heresy or blasphemy because those are right judgement against wrong teaching but, actual name calling and especially make threats, it only serves to reiterate that is fallen behavior of the natural mind.

Which I think makes for a relevant question in light of that and is, why debate them?

We aren't going to change the unregenerate mind. That's God's job.

When we read one another as we make that effort we're preaching to the choir.

What then is our point?
We're going to rebuff blatant falsity of course . However, if we think about it, are our efforts going to lead anyone to Christ? When God tells us no one comes to Jesus but God leads them.
What we post may resonate and lead his elect to him? But that would credit us, when God says he does that.

Curious to your thoughts. 😊✝️💕

OK,I'm clearly on FGC's ignore list for whatever reason.☺️

Doesn't change the fact his Exegesis is Biblically sound. 💕✝️

 

[Runningman]

What you do not recognise, is that Man's faith is faith in himself and his accomplishments. He cannot discern spiritual faith which is a fruit of the Holy Spirit (Gal 5:22) which is only accessible through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit which God gives a person when God quickens them to the new spiritual life. (Eph 2:1-5).

Prior to having faith in the gospel, people don’t have any fruits of the Holy Spirit. The kind of faith Galatians 5:22 is talking about is great faith because it’s a spiritual gift. Initial faith isn’t gifted to anyone.

spiritual gifts:
1 Corinthians 12:8,9
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit

 

[Runningman]

Spiritual faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit (Gal 5:22) and becomes available with the new birth with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (Eph 2:1-5)

The un-regenerant person only has faith in himself, and his accomplishments. He thinks spiritual faith is foolishness, and cannot discern it.(1 Cor 2:14).

Natural people need to hear the gospel, maybe repeatedly, think about it for awhile, and maybe have some miracles/answered prayers. That’s what Jesus did, that’s what the apostles did, and missionaries/preachers are still doing it today. God doesn’t just gift faith to everyone or everyone would have it because He wants no one to perish.

 

[crossnote]

Not exact.
Come now, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go into such and such a town and spend a year there and trade and make a profit”— 14 yet you do not know what tomorrow will bring. What is your life? For you are a mist that appears for a little time and then vanishes. 15 Instead you ought to say, “If the Lord wills, we will live and do this or that.” 16 As it is, you boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil. 17 So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin. (James 4:13–17, ESVUK)


I'm not a Calvanist. However, Calvinism was pre-existed by other teachers of the word before him. The ''Calvinist'' contempt is ignorance of this fact.

Lutheran's here should hope they're not targeted. Martin Luther taught the same thing. Predestination. Even double predestination.
ST.Augustine, Jansenists, and last but not the only one, Apostle Paul.

For those whom he [God] foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn within a large family. And those whom he predestined he also called; and those whom he called he also justified; and those whom he justified he also glorified .
Romans 8:29–30.

And Jesus.

The bias against Calvinism is obviously personal and myopic. Because someone doesn't have to claim Calvin's teachings to know where he gleaned his doctrine from. All someone has to do is read the Bible.

Jesus taught in parables.

So that not all would understand and come into salvation.

Jesus said that.

Jesus said no one can come to him unless the father leads them.

Universalism is called a heresy. It appears when it is reworked yo counter the dread ''Calvinists'' presumed to be on board it's construed as gospel.

It's not. And the Lambs Book of Life written before God created the world proves it.

As does God, repeatedly when he tells us he has predestined all.

Works advocates insist that's not so. God didn't actually mean what he said. Or did.

Man has the power to choose and overcome his plans.
Everyone is able to be saved.

That's not what Jesus taught.

Everyone else sknows prophecy is God's predestination of the future.
Prophecy, inspired utterance; the prediction of future events.

Even as Jesus was predestined to come and as old testament prophecy tells us. And why.

“This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.” John 6:39


“This Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death.” Acts 2:23


“Also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory.” Ephesians 1:11-12



“Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the faith of those chosen of God and the knowledge of the truth which is according to godliness.” Titus 1:1

“The Lord has made everything for its own purpose, even the wicked for the day of evil.” Proverbs 16:4

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him.” Ephesians 1:3

“But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.” 2 Thessalonians 2:13

“But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.” 2 Thessalonians 2:13

God is sovereign.

The heresy is actually that which contravenes God's message.

“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.” John 6:44

“We make our own plans, but the LORD decides where we will go,” Proverbs 16:9 CEV

That was quite a long reply to my one word response of 'exactly'. I was responding to @Runningman 's statement of "worth noting, some people espouse Calvinistic doctrines and don’t realize it; ".
Maybe you didn't understand his statement? It was what happened in my case, I had read Ephesians one as a baby Christian and held to those teachings (vss 5, 11) and from then on was accused of being a Calvinist but never identifying as such.

 

[Bluesproverb]

That was quite a long reply to my one word response of 'exactly'. I was responding to @Runningman 's statement of "worth noting, some people espouse Calvinistic doctrines and don’t realize it; ".
Maybe you didn't understand his statement? It was what happened in my case, I had read Ephesians one as a baby Christian and held to those teachings (vss 5, 11) and from then on was accused of being a Calvinist but never identifying as such.

I was curious as to whom you were directing a one word response to. I considered it might be that you were responding to one I currently ignore.

My response was to you and that one you agreed with.
My rather long response demonstrate I did understand both of you.

 

[crossnote]

I was curious as to whom you were directing a one word response to. I considered it might be that you were responding to one I currently ignore.

It was for the one I quoted...Runningman.

My response was to you and that one you agreed with.
My rather long response demonstrate I did understand both of you

Now I'm totally confused. Can we start over? You go first (hehe).

 

[Bluesproverb]

It was for the one I quoted...Runningman.

Now I'm totally confused. Can we start over? You go first (hehe).

OK.
I'll make it simpler.

I saw your one word response.
Presumed you were replying to someone I couldn't see.
Clicked the 'show ignored content' link.
Saw to whom you were speaking and agreed with.

Posted my remarks to address you both since you were in accord on that topic.

Better now?😜😀

 

[crossnote]

OK.
I'll make it simpler.

I saw your one word response.
Presumed you were replying to someone I couldn't see.
Clicked the 'show ignored content' link.
Saw to whom you were speaking and agreed with.

Posted my remarks to address you both since you were in accord on that topic.

Better now?😜😀

I suppose, but how can it be better if I can't argue the point?

 

[wolfwint]

Natural people need to hear the gospel, maybe repeatedly, think about it for awhile, and maybe have some miracles/answered prayers. That’s what Jesus did, that’s what the apostles did, and missionaries/preachers are still doing it today. God doesn’t just gift faith to everyone or everyone would have it because He wants no one to perish.

I would add, that the Holy Spirit must open the heart..and i think he must be open for the gospel. only miracles and answered prayers will not lead to faith. To much people in Jesus time sawcthe miracles and wonders without responding with faith.

 

[Bluesproverb]

I suppose, but how can it be better if I can't argue the point?

😂

 

[ForestGreenCook]

OK,I'm clearly on FGC's ignore list for whatever reason.☺️

I am sorry, It is not my intention to ignore anyone. I love discussing the scriptures in an attempt that I may be a witness along with the Holy Spirit within them to convert them to the knowledge of what Jesus has done for them. 2 Cor 13:1 - In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

The inspired word of God are instruction as to how God wants his born again children to live their lives as they sojourn here in this world. They are not written to the un-regenerant people, because they cannot discern spiritual words that are inspired by a spiritual God, thinking them to be foolishness.

The instructions from God to his ordained elders is to preach to the lost sheep (born again people)) of the house of Jacob/Israel teaching them the good news of the knowledge of what Jesus has done for them on the cross, so that they will not have to depend upon their good works of the old law to gain their eternal deliverance.

Most of God's, well intended, born again children, in order to get eternal deliverance, are believing that they have to accept Jesus, repent, confess obey, believe, etc, which are all works of the old law. The only people that practice these works, which will deliver them as they sojourn here in this world, but not eternally, are those that have been born again.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Prior to having faith in the gospel, people don’t have any fruits of the Holy Spirit. The kind of faith Galatians 5:22 is talking about is great faith because it’s a spiritual gift. Initial faith isn’t gifted to anyone.

spiritual gifts:
1 Corinthians 12:8,9
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit

It seems to me that your post and my post are in agreement with one another. Am I correct?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

God doesn’t just gift faith to everyone or everyone would have it because He wants no one to perish.

If it is God's will that none of mankind would perish, then he would deliver them all to heaven, because my bible teaches that God accomplishes all of his will, and none can stay his hand (Dan 4:35).

Many of God's adopted children are believing that God wants to deliver all mankind to eternal heaven, by their misinterpretation of the scriptures. They also believe, by their misinterpretation of the scriptures, that there are but a few that God will deliver to eternal heaven.

One of those scriptures about God not wanting anyone to perish, is 2 Pet 3:9 - In order to keep this scripture in context, we have to reference 2 Pet 1:1 to understand who Peter is directing his words of warning to, which is to "them that have obtained like precious faith". Peter even includes himself by using the word "usward". Peter is warning them that when they commit a sin, that they should repent, because God is not willing that any of those that have obtained like precious faith, should Perish (die to God's fellowship as they sojourn here on earth). When we are practicing sin, God will not fellowship with sin.

 

[Bluesproverb]

I am sorry, It is not my intention to ignore anyone. I love discussing the scriptures in an attempt that I may be a witness along with the Holy Spirit within them to convert them to the knowledge of what Jesus has done for them. 2 Cor 13:1 - In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

The inspired word of God are instruction as to how God wants his born again children to live their lives as they sojourn here in this world. They are not written to the un-regenerant people, because they cannot discern spiritual words that are inspired by a spiritual God, thinking them to be foolishness.

The instructions from God to his ordained elders is to preach to the lost sheep (born again people)) of the house of Jacob/Israel teaching them the good news of the knowledge of what Jesus has done for them on the cross, so that they will not have to depend upon their good works of the old law to gain their eternal deliverance.

Most of God's, well intended, born again children, in order to get eternal deliverance, are believing that they have to accept Jesus, repent, confess obey, believe, etc, which are all works of the old law. The only people that practice these works, which will deliver them as they sojourn here in this world, but not eternally, are those that have been born again.

Thank you for your response. Glad you read me too. I like your posts.

 

[John146]

If it is God's will that none of mankind would perish, then he would deliver them all to heaven, because my bible teaches that God accomplishes all of his will, and none can stay his hand (Dan 4:35).

Many of God's adopted children are believing that God wants to deliver all mankind to eternal heaven, by their misinterpretation of the scriptures. They also believe, by their misinterpretation of the scriptures, that there are but a few that God will deliver to eternal heaven.

One of those scriptures about God not wanting anyone to perish, is 2 Pet 3:9 - In order to keep this scripture in context, we have to reference 2 Pet 1:1 to understand who Peter is directing his words of warning to, which is to "them that have obtained like precious faith". Peter even includes himself by using the word "usward". Peter is warning them that when they commit a sin, that they should repent, because God is not willing that any of those that have obtained like precious faith, should Perish (die to God's fellowship as they sojourn here on earth). When we are practicing sin, God will not fellowship with sin.

Is it Gods will that you sin? Do you sin?

 

[Runningman]

If it is God's will that none of mankind would perish, then he would deliver them all to heaven, because my bible teaches that God accomplishes all of his will, and none can stay his hand (Dan 4:35).

Many of God's adopted children are believing that God wants to deliver all mankind to eternal heaven, by their misinterpretation of the scriptures. They also believe, by their misinterpretation of the scriptures, that there are but a few that God will deliver to eternal heaven.

One of those scriptures about God not wanting anyone to perish, is 2 Pet 3:9 - In order to keep this scripture in context, we have to reference 2 Pet 1:1 to understand who Peter is directing his words of warning to, which is to "them that have obtained like precious faith". Peter even includes himself by using the word "usward". Peter is warning them that when they commit a sin, that they should repent, because God is not willing that any of those that have obtained like precious faith, should Perish (die to God's fellowship as they sojourn here on earth). When we are practicing sin, God will not fellowship with sin.

Our Bibles teach the same things but we don’t understand them the same way. God doesn’t seem to control people or Adam and Eve wouldn’t have eaten from the tree God’s will forbade them ate.

I can agree that over the long arc of a timeline God will eventually bring about the result He’s producing, but it’s not always instantaneous since there’s logistics involved.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Our Bibles teach the same things but we don’t understand them the same way. God doesn’t seem to control people or Adam and Eve wouldn’t have eaten from the tree God’s will forbade them ate.

I can agree that over the long arc of a timeline God will eventually bring about the result He’s producing, but it’s not always instantaneous since there’s logistics involved.

God allows mankind to make their own choices on how they want to live their lives as they sojourn here in this world, but eternal live of a person is by God's sovereign grace. God does the choosing about mankind's eternal deliverance.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Is it Gods will that you sin? Do you sin?

God allows mankind ro choose how he wants to live his life here on earth, but their eternal inheritance is made by God's sovereign grace, and not man's choice, and Yes, all of God's born again children do commit sins, and because he loves them he chastens them.

The inspired scriptures are instructions written to his adopted children as to how he wants them to live their lives as they sojourn here on earth, and gives them the freedom to choose how they want to live. If they are his adopted children that Christ paid the adoption price for on the cross, they will all inherit heaven regardless whether they choose to commit sin or not

 

[ForestGreenCook]

By the way, the word is "unregenerate", not "un-regenerant".

What does this have to do with our discussion?

It says the natural man cannot receive or know them. It says nothing of believe. The context also strongly suggests that it is speaking of the deeper things of the Spirit, not merely the gospel.

Cannot receive or know spiritual things takes away the possibility of believing spiritual things.

It amazes me, the length that some people will go in their misinterpretation of the scriptures, to take away the glory and power of God in giving eternal life by his sovereign grace, and giving man the power and glory for saving himself eternally.