show me a verse that Stephen use his own effort to face the persecution
show me a verse that say if you ever believe, than deny you still save
Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation
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show me a verse that Stephen use his own effort to face the persecution
show me a verse that say if you ever believe, than deny you still save
I don't cater to silly demands with specific wordings, as you have done here. So I'll do one better.
1 John 1-
6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth.
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from allhttps://www.biblestudytools.com/1-john/1.html#references-footnotes sin.
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.
Here, John uses the personal pronoun WE, meaning he is including himself.
Also notice that ALL the "we" is preceded by IF. That proves that believers can walk in darkness (false doctrine- truth not in us).
So, v.6 means that believers who claim to have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, are LIARS and do NOT live out the truth.
v.7 teaches that ONLY those believers who 'walk in the light' have fellowship with each other. The reason is that "the blood of Jesus PURIFIES us from all sin. (see v.9 for how to be purified from our sins).
v.8 teaches that believers who claim to be without sin are self deceived and do not have truth in them.
v.9 teaches that confession of sin is what forgives and cleanses (purifies) us. This is what restores fellowship with the Lord.
v.10 is related to v.8. Believers who claim they have not sinned "make out God to be a LIAR".
3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.
This verse precedes v.6-10.
Your question clearly demonstrates that your understanding of fellowship is unbiblical, which is the most basic doctrine for believers to understand.
FreeGrace2 said:
Yes, there is something you can do. You can finally and honestly face John 5:24 and 10:28 and realize that from the MOMENT a person becomes a believer in Christ, they POSSESS eternal life and on THAT basis, shall never perish.
I don't understand B. It doesn't make sense.
I didn't choose EITHER ONE. I SAID B wasn't understandable. Can you fix it so that it is understandable?
That is your own choice to deny what Jesus said so clearly in John 10:28. Once given the gift of eternal life, the recipient shall never perish. But you don't believe what Jesus said.
It means you are using YOUR own effort.
John 10:28 teaches that recipients of eternal life shall never perish. That means NO EXCEPTIONS.
John 5:24 teaches that when a person becomes a believer, they POSSESS eternal life. NO EXCEPTIONS.
Now, my turn. Show me a verse that says IF a believer denies they lose salvation. I'll wait.
Yes, there is something you can do. You can finally and honestly face John 5:24 and 10:28 and realize that from the MOMENT a person becomes a believer in Christ, they POSSESS eternal life and on THAT basis, shall never perish.
I don't understand B. It doesn't make sense.
I didn't choose EITHER ONE. I SAID B wasn't understandable. Can you fix it so that it is understandable?
That is your own choice to deny what Jesus said so clearly in John 10:28. Once given the gift of eternal life, the recipient shall never perish. But you don't believe what Jesus said.
It means you are using YOUR own effort.
Why do you repeatedly dodge my points and follow up with these silly questions? And this question is irrelevant to my questions.
I have, repeatedly, but your eyes are so tightly closed you can't (won't) see it.
John 10:28 teaches that recipients of eternal life shall never perish. That means NO EXCEPTIONS.
John 5:24 teaches that when a person becomes a believer, they POSSESS eternal life. NO EXCEPTIONS.
Now, my turn. Show me a verse that says IF a believer denies they lose salvation. I'll wait.
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
A.to be save we must walk in the light
B,if we walk in the darkness we lost, (not save)
c if we walk we have fellowship wit Him
so to be save must have fellowship with Him or cut off and cast into eternal fire
matt 10
33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
that the verse you ask for
You are twisting the verse because you presume fellowship =salvation. It doesn't. John as saved yet he included himself (we) in the passage. iow, if he walked in darkness, he would not be in fellowship.
This is nothing but a big presumptin. I've already proven with examples that relationship doesn't = fellowship.
Marriage: are married couples ALWAYS in fellowship with each other? No.
Parent-child: are parents ALWAYS in fellowship with their children? No.
You mean you are in control of your salvation. iow, if your lifestyle is right, you are saved. Hogwash.
Salvation ALWAYS precedes fellowship.
No, that verse isn't what I asked for. Are you having difficulty understanding English?
This is what I asked: Show me a verse that says IF a believer denies they lose salvation. I'll wait.
YOU have to presume the subject here is about salvation. Jesus didn't say anything about salvation here.
The context for v.33 is the previous verse.
32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven.
33 But whoever denies me before others, I will deny before my Father in heaven.
So, v.32 teaches a reward for the believer who "acknowledges Jesus before others". The reward is a special acknowledgement before His Father.
So, v.33 teaches the opposite. Believers who don't witness, etc will be denies an acknowledgement before His Father.
There is a parallel passage in 2 Tim-
12 if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we deny him, he will also deny us;
I know you seem to have great difficulty with understanding logic, but Paul is teaching that those believers who ENDURE will "reign with Him". This isn't salvation, but sharing in reigning with Christ in His kingdom.
Now the opposite:
13 if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot deny himself.
Even when believers are faithless, God remains faithFUL. And the reason: He CANNOT deny Himself.
Do you know what that refers to? Since the Holy Spirit has been placed in EACH believer (Eph 1:13) God the Father CANNOT deny the Holy Spirit, who is a guarantee for the believer's inheritance IN heaven.
Eph 1-
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
Eph 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
How could Paul write this if the seal could be broken. In your opinion, believers who grieve the Spirit would lose salvation.
Please explain what Paul was referring to here by "what is to come". And note that "what is to come" is GUARANTEED!
2 Cor 1:22 - set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
2 Cor 5:5 - Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
The answer is found in Eph 1:14.
You've never addressed Eph 1:13,14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22 and 5:5.
Why are you hiding from them?
I copy one of definition of felowsdpship from dictionary
1.
friendly association, especially with people who share one's interests.
"they valued fun and good fellowship as the cement of the community"
friendly associate
how you have faith with Jesus but not being friend
John 15:15
15 I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.
jesus call faith holder friend
how you have faith but not fellowship
1.
friendly association, especially with people who share one's interests.
"they valued fun and good fellowship as the cement of the community"
friendly associate
how you have faith with Jesus but not being friend
John 15:15
15 I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.
jesus call faith holder friend
how you have faith but not fellowship
Why won't you address the 2 examples I gave? What are you afraid of?
In a marriage, when there is strife and NO fellowship, are they still married? yes or no
Between a parent and child, when there is strife and NO fellowship, is that relationship still intact? yes or no
The answers to these questions prove that in the permanent relationship between believer and the Lord, there is not always fellowship.
Is there fellowship when a believer sins? yes or no
In post 2405, I asked you a question about:
Eph 1-
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
Eph 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
How could Paul write this if the seal could be broken. In your opinion, believers who grieve the Spirit would lose salvation.
Please explain what Paul was referring to here by "what is to come". And note that "what is to come" is GUARANTEED!
2 Cor 1:22 - set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
2 Cor 5:5 - Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
The answer is found in Eph 1:14.
You've never addressed Eph 1:13,14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22 and 5:5.
Why are you hiding from them?
God give us free will to chose
1 Tim 2
4 God wants everyone to be saved and to fully understand the truth. 5 There is only one God, and there is only one way that people can reach God. That way is through Christ Jesus, who as a man 6 gave himself to pay for everyone to be free. This is the message that was given to us at just the right time.
why not every one save?
because not every ne say yes to Jesus and God not force it
as long as you still physically life, you are free to chose Jesus or no
God seal to the promise land, but you are free to broke the seal
look the history on the OT
God promise Israel to the promise land, but on the way a lot of them not make it for they own disobey
God give you freedom to broke the seal until you die
God want every body save but not by force
2 thes 1
7 and to grant jrelief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when kthe Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven lwith his mighty angels 8 min flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those nwho do not know God and on those who odo not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will suffer the punishment of peternal destruction, qaway from2 the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,
verse 8
God promise is conditional
Not know and not obey will be punish
ex obey is consider it obey
7 and to grant jrelief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when kthe Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven lwith his mighty angels 8 min flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those nwho do not know God and on those who odo not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will suffer the punishment of peternal destruction, qaway from2 the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,
verse 8
God promise is conditional
Not know and not obey will be punish
ex obey is consider it obey
FreeGrace2 said:
Why won't you address the 2 examples I gave? What are you afraid of?
In a marriage, when there is strife and NO fellowship, are they still married? yes or no
Between a parent and child, when there is strife and NO fellowship, is that relationship still intact? yes or no
The answers to these questions prove that in the permanent relationship between believer and the Lord, there is not always fellowship.
Then I posted this:
In post 2405, I asked you a question about:
Eph 1-
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
Eph 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
How could Paul write this if the seal could be broken. In your opinion, believers who grieve the Spirit would lose salvation.
Please explain what Paul was referring to here by "what is to come". And note that "what is to come" is GUARANTEED!
2 Cor 1:22 - set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
2 Cor 5:5 - Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
The answer is found in Eph 1:14.
You've never addressed Eph 1:13,14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22 and 5:5.
Why are you hiding from them?
Do you understand that ignoring questions shows dishonesty? Or ignorance.
Why won't you address the 2 examples I gave? What are you afraid of?
In a marriage, when there is strife and NO fellowship, are they still married? yes or no
Between a parent and child, when there is strife and NO fellowship, is that relationship still intact? yes or no
The answers to these questions prove that in the permanent relationship between believer and the Lord, there is not always fellowship.
Why do you ALWAYS ignore what I post? We're not talking about free will.
Free will. Now, please focus and answer my questions about fellowship.
Then I posted this:
In post 2405, I asked you a question about:
Eph 1-
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
Eph 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
How could Paul write this if the seal could be broken. In your opinion, believers who grieve the Spirit would lose salvation.
Please explain what Paul was referring to here by "what is to come". And note that "what is to come" is GUARANTEED!
2 Cor 1:22 - set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
2 Cor 5:5 - Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
The answer is found in Eph 1:14.
You've never addressed Eph 1:13,14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22 and 5:5.
Why are you hiding from them?
Do you understand that ignoring questions shows dishonesty? Or ignorance.
It's really unfortunate that your grasp of English is what it is. It's impossible to have a real conversation with you.
v.7 refers to the Second Advent, when King Jesus returns to earth to end the Tribulation at the battle of Armageddon.
v.8 refers to those who "have not believed" the gospel. They will be condemned.
v.9 is what they will receive.
God's promise of never perishing is NOT condition to recipients of eternal life. John 10:28
You know, the verse that you refuse to talk about.
All you do is miss-mash the Word of God until it isn't recognizable.
basically you fail to understand my answer
i keep answer and your Say I am not address those verse
all those promise are conditional if you obey
that show in verse 8
not know and not obey will punish
ex obey is no obey
say you always drive 55 but today you speeding to 85
the aw say you are speeding and violate the law
than police pull you than you say I am ex obey
police say not now this type ticket see you in court
Sadly, sentence formation and grammar make your posts very difficult to follow.
you have NOT addressed John 5:24, 10:28, Eph 1:13,14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22 and 5:5.
This is just an opinion. Address each verse and prove your claim.
What does "ex obey" mean?
What does this have to do with anything? This is irrelevant to our discussion.
In Eph 1:14 and 2 Cor 1:22 and 5:5 the word "guarantee" is used.
Read each verse, figure out what is being guaranteed and what is the sign of the guarantee.
If I may.
You were challenged to prove your understanding of your relationship with God by one who demonstrates themselves to be pride filled, arrogant, judgemental, and a braggart of their own works that they think empowers them to challenge you to whom they condescend in the process.
Because as their posts clearly says, they do not credit you as knowing scripture.
Do you really think they'll understand our being indwelt by the holy spirit is that relationship link that allows for us to follow God leading us to serve his purpose?
That which can't see that believes we labor to show we are rightly approved by God's judgement of our efforts for his having let us be in faith.
And in closing I've no doubt there will come in reply cuts like, pot calling kettle black, and so forth by that which holds to their seem posting style.
Thst will not demonstrate their Exegesis is Biblically sound.
Rather, it will show they are many. Working to rewrite the words of the word into a worldly errant doctrine.
Only God opens understanding of the difference.
God bless.
I say it 100 time and I give you the verse that the promise is conditional
as far as I know the only unconditional promise is Gods not going punish the earth use water
after Noah era
Other all promise with condition
obey
stop obey > stop promise
logic is the art of to conclude from multiple verse
to combine verse about promise and verses about how to get the promise it is obey
look the history of Israel in OT
i was a member of first baptis for 26 years
I know the doctrine that faith is possible without fellowship
but I don’t think it is biblical
to hide the truth about fire in John 15 they say it is not hell
so do eternal fire in Matt 25 is not hell
they try to make Bible fit to the doctrine
must be doctrine follow bible not all the way around
I believe the doctrine to separate between faith and fellowship have vested interest
try to make sinner like me happy
he keep in sin I am sinner anyway nothing to do with salvation
that is why fire on John 15 mean heaven
eternal fire where is future devil and his angel reside mean heaven ( matt25)
that make me happy but is not in the bible
try to make sinner like me happy
he keep in sin I am sinner anyway nothing to do with salvation
that is why fire on John 15 mean heaven
eternal fire where is future devil and his angel reside mean heaven ( matt25)
that make me happy but is not in the bible
Actually I am a sinner and happy to hear about separation between fello and faith
easier for me to go to heaven
but I am afraid this is unbiblical and if I follow easy way will spend up with sadness
those verse not say possibility faith without felloship
Mark 14
27 “You will all fall away,” Jesus told them, “for it is written:
“‘I will strike the shepherd,
and the sheep will be scattered.’
28 But after I have risen, I will go ahead of you into Galilee.”
29 Peter declared, “Even if all fall away, I will not.”
30 “Truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “today—yes, tonight—before the rooster crows twice you yourself will disown me three times.”
31 But Peter insisted emphatically, “Even if I have to die with you, I will never disown you.” And all the others said the same.
Matthew 26
31 Then Jesus told them, “This very night you will all fall away on account of me, for it is written:
“‘I will strike the shepherd,
and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.’[c]
32 But after I have risen, I will go ahead of you into Galilee.”
33 Peter replied, “Even if all fall away on account of you, I never will.”
34 “Truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “this very night, before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times.”
35 But Peter declared, “Even if I have to die with you, I will never disown you.” And all the other disciples said the same.
Luke 22
31 Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded permission to sift you like wheat; 32 but I have prayed for you, that your faith may not fail; and you, when once you have turned again, strengthen your brothers.” 33 But he said to Him, “Lord, with You I am ready to go both to prison and to death!” 34 And He said, “I say to you, Peter, the rooster will not crow today until you have denied three times that you know Me.”
you talking about both you and me, am I correct?
seem you judge me, am I correct
but it’s ok we are sinner and lack of agape love
you demonstrate your are similar to me,, and do what I do
little different I know apart from Jesus I can do nothing
so I don’t have the reason to pride