Is Baptism necessary for Salvation?

[Runningman]

I believe that Jesus taught a doctrine that, there is an eternal salvation (deliverance - Greek translation), and there are many deliverances (salvations) that his born again children experience as they sojourn here in this world.

Too many of good intentioned, born again children, apply all of the salvation (deliverance) scriptures to eternal deliverance, which tends, to them, to teach that eternal deliverance is accomplished by their good works.

There are many deliverances that born again children receive as they sojourn here on earth, due to their good works.

Those that have been revealed this knowledge are but a few. The scriptures refer to them as; the remnant. the little flock. the few, etc.

Those born again children, who do not have this knowledge, and are going about depending on the letter of the old law to deliver them eternally, do still have the security of their eternal inheritance of heaven, accomplished by Christ's death on the cross, but are considered "lost" from the knowledge of their eternal deliverance, and are in need of being saved (delivered) as they live here in this world.

God's , spiritually, ordained preachers are instructed to teach this knowledge of what Jesus has done for them on the cross to his born again children who are "lost" to this knowledge, and are still depending upon their works to deliver them eternally.

The scriptures do not tell us how to get delivered eternally, but they do explain how we were delivered eternally, and that was by the sovereign grace of God requiring his Son to go to the cross in payment for the sins of those that he gave to him.

I was thinking of a verse lately and what you said came to mind so I’m going to show you the verse. If you would, could you please say what it means?

1 Timothy 2:15 LEB
But she will be saved through the bearing of children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness with self-control.

 

[Wansvic]

4 Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. 7 Now the men were about twelve in all.


The baptism "in the name of the Lord Jesus means Paul laid his hands on them by the authority given to him by Jesus. They received the empowering of the Holy Spirit just as those did in Acts 2. THis happened after Paul preached to Jesus just as Peter did to Cornelious, which the Holy Spirit came upon them while Peter was still speaking and he did not lay his hands on them. This was not water baptism in the name of Jesus. The context starts in verses 2, not 5 and 6th.


He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost

Baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus is water baptism as confirmed by Peter in Acts 10:47-48.

Paul's exchange with the Ephesus disciples is recorded in Acts 19:1-7. Verses 5 and 6 pertain to separate events. Notice Paul laid hands on the group and they received the Holy Ghost in verse 6. This took place after they were in the name of the Lord Jesus in verse 5.

 

[Wansvic]

Baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus is water baptism as confirmed by Peter in Acts 10:47-48.

Paul's exchange with the Ephesus disciples is recorded in Acts 19:1-7. Verses 5 and 6 pertain to separate events. Notice Paul laid hands on the group and they received the Holy Ghost in verse 6. This took place after they were in the name of the Lord Jesus in verse 5.

@CS1 My response (785 timed out). The following is the correction.
Paul's exchange with the Ephesus disciples is recorded in Acts 19:1-7. Verses 5 and 6 pertain to separate events. Notice Paul laid hands on the group and they received the Holy Ghost in verse 6. This took place after they were BAPTIZED in the name of the Lord Jesus in verse 5.

 

[Wansvic]

they were saved already.

The NT rebirth experience consists of both receiving the Holy Ghost and being water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus for remission of sins. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-6, 22:16)

 

[Wansvic]

yes, they were saved already if not why did Paul in Acts 19: 1 ask

“Did you receive (Greek lambanō ) to take the Holy Spirit when you believed?” (pisteuō )=of the thing believed past tense. What did they believe in? Jesus.

It was the Holy Spirit they did not hear of BUT Jesus they knew.

Paul's question, "Have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE you believed?" indicates receiving the Holy Ghost does not always occur when a person believes the gospel message. Notice the interaction actually proved that point. The group was told that John baptized and said to believe on Jesus, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus, and it was AFTER those events took place that Paul laid hands on them and they received the Holy Ghost.

 

[mailmandan]

Paul's question, "Have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE you believed?" indicates receiving the Holy Ghost does not always occur when a person believes the gospel message. Notice the interaction actually proved that point. The group was told that John baptized and said to believe on Jesus, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus, and it was AFTER those events took place that Paul laid hands on them and they received the Holy Ghost.

In Acts 19:2, Paul asked them if they had received the Holy Spirit when they believed and their answer in verse 3 reveals that they were not yet believers. They had received the baptism of John but did not realize that Jesus Christ was the One to whom John's baptism pointed. Paul gave them instructions about Jesus and after they believed Paul's presentation of the gospel and came to saving faith in Christ, they were then (afterwards) baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Paul laid hands on them to receive the Holy Spirit (which was not the case in Acts 2 and Acts 10, so this is the exception, not the rule). It did signify their inclusion into the church. Apostles were also present to lay hands on the Samaritans in Acts chapter 8. God's purpose here was to emphasize unity in the church. The Jews despised the Samaritans.

 

[Wansvic]

I’m not so sure Jesus and His disciples would have did John’s baptism of repentance. It seems like it’s most likely these would have been baptisms in Jesus name given it was Jesus and His disciples who were doing the water baptisms in John 3.



Repentance and forgiveness of sins being preached in Jerusalem was already happening prior to the ascension, but beginning in Jerusalem the gospel went out to all the nations. I don’t think there is a correlation between Luke 24:47 and it being impossible for someone to be baptized in Jesus’s name prior to the Day of Pentecost.

The first time we see the command to repent and be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus for remission of sins is in Jerusalem on the Day of Pentecost. (Acts 2:38) It was at that time that the message was presented to the Jewish population. Afterward it is recorded that the message was presented to the Samaritans who believed Philip and were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (Acts 8:12-17) Next, Peter commanded the Gentiles to be baptized in water in the name of the Lord as well. (Acts 10:43-48)

Those who submit to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus should understand it's implications as outlined by Paul in Romans 6:3-6. Those who were baptized by John were not doing it in association with Jesus' death, burial and resurrection.

 

[Runningman]

The first time we see the command to repent and be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus for remission of sins is in Jerusalem on the Day of Pentecost. (Acts 2:38) It was at that time that the message was presented to the Jewish population. Afterward it is recorded that the message was presented to the Samaritans who believed Philip and were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (Acts 8:12-17) Next, Peter commanded the Gentiles to be baptized in water in the name of the Lord as well. (Acts 10:43-48)

Those who submit to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus should understand it's implications as outlined by Paul in Romans 6:3-6. Those who were baptized by John were not doing it in association with Jesus' death, burial and resurrection.

I can agree with that.

Another question, is water baptism necessary to share in the same resurrection that Jesus had? A resurrection of the glorified body, perfected, despite physical death of the body.

 

[Walter]

Saturday 7-23-22 7th. Day Of The Weekly Cycle, Tammuz 23, 5782 33rd. Summer Day

Is Baptism Necessary For Salvation?

I believe that it is.

Mark 16:16

King James Version


16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Read full chapter

 

[Runningman]

Saturday 7-23-22 7th. Day Of The Weekly Cycle, Tammuz 23, 5782 33rd. Summer Day

Is Baptism Necessary For Salvation?

I believe that it is.

Mark 16:16

King James Version


16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Read full chapter

May God bless you Walter and your wife. you're both truly saints!

 

[jaybo]

The NT rebirth experience consists of both receiving the Holy Ghost and being water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus for remission of sins. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-6, 22:16)

Baptism is burial! Romans 6:4, "We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life."

 

[jaybo]

Saturday 7-23-22 7th. Day Of The Weekly Cycle, Tammuz 23, 5782 33rd. Summer Day

Is Baptism Necessary For Salvation?

I believe that it is.

Mark 16:16

King James Version


16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Read full chapter

So much for believing! Read the part of the verse after the semicolon.

Ephesians 2:8-9, "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast."

 

[Magenta]

Taking liberties with scripture implying it is possible he was is injudicious.

Jesus declared him saved. That is all that ever mattered.All else is absurd projection.

Exactly... I'm glad you agree. So people should stop saying he was not baptized, because it is an assumption... which is after all what I've been saying all along.

 

[Magenta]

You are indeed correct. We can not know his baptismal status. John the Baptist was baptizing folks and the disciples of Jesus were also baptizing people prior to the event of the cross. He is irrelevant to the conversation. Ironically those who oppose baptismal regeneration jump right to this event as proof; which proves nothing at all. Because as you said its all assumptions.

Thank you. As we have seen, some people are so confused that they believe that pointing out that it is an assumption to say he wasn't baptized means we are saying he was baptized. They simply show their lack of discernment and willingness to falsely accuse.

 

[Bluesproverb]

Exactly... I'm glad you agree. So people should stop saying he was not baptized, because it is an assumption... which is after all what I've been saying all along.

It is equally assumption that he was baptized.
It's not there either way.
And demonstrates a willingness to abrogate scripture for arguments sake.

Why can't you and others just leave the passage to speak for itself?

Luke 23 [ASV] 39 And one of the malefactors that were hanged railed on him, saying, Art not thou the Christ? save thyself and us. 40 But the other answered, and rebuking him said, Dost thou not even fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. 42 And he said, Jesus, remember me when thou comest in thy kingdom. 43 And he said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To-day shalt thou be with me in Paradise.

 

[Dirtman]

Thank you. As we have seen, some people are so confused that they believe that pointing out that it is an assumption to say he wasn't baptized means we are saying he was baptized. They simply show their lack of discernment and willingness to falsely accuse.

Its very cronic around here.
This whole thread is based on a false premise. If you say baptism saves it is not exclusive that a person who has saving faith but hasnt been baptised can also be saved. It just means that faith and Grace are also in baptism, making baptism a means of grace just as the preaching of the Gospel. And niether are a work of man but a work of God that we partake in.
But I dont think of being saved as being like some kind of one and done switch. I thin Jesus by the Holy Spirit is always working in us saving Grace.

 

[Walter]

Saturday 7-23-22 7th. Day Of The Weekly Cycle, Tammuz 23, 5782 33rd. Summer Day

Is Baptism Necessary For Salvation?

I believe that it is.

Mark 16:16

King James Version


16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Read full chapter

Saturday 7-23-22 7th. Day Of The Weekly Cycle, Tammuz 23, 5782 33rd. Summer Day

Acts 2:36-40



36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Read full chapter

 

[Magenta]

It is equally assumption that he was baptized.
It's not there either way.
And demonstrates a willingness to abrogate scripture for arguments sake.

Why can't you and others just leave the passage to speak for itself?

Luke 23 [ASV] 39 And one of the malefactors that were hanged railed on him, saying, Art not thou the Christ? save thyself and us. 40 But the other answered, and rebuking him said, Dost thou not even fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. 42 And he said, Jesus, remember me when thou comest in thy kingdom. 43 And he said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To-day shalt thou be with me in Paradise.

Why do you keep harping on the "he was baptized" angle? It seems you would like to repeatedly falsely accuse me of that when I have never said any such thing.

 

[Bluesproverb]

Why do you keep harping on the "he was baptized" angle? It seems you would like to repeatedly falsely accuse me of that when I have never said any such thing.

You should read before you jump to your own offensive conclusions. It's not all about you. As I said.

 

[Magenta]

You should read before you jump to your own offensive conclusions. It's not all about you. As I said.

I saw what you said and you repeated it. Pretending otherwise doesn't help your case.