Hell

[AndrewMorgan]

I've had experience of many denominations - trinitarian and unitarian - encountering many, many different doctrines and combinations of doctrines. One major issues in contention is the subject of Hell as a place of conscious torment.
There is material in the Bible, on prima facie consideration, to support either view.
I'd be interested to hear others' opinions and biblical evidence for either view.

 

[studentoftheword]

Hell is a subject that can greatly disturb one -----and because of that many will make the argument that the scriptures never talk about a Place called Hell -----

Here is the thing that Folks should get -----we are made in God's image ------God is a Spiritual Being ---so we are a Spiritual Being -----God possesses a soul ---God has a will--He thinks and has emotions -----We also possess a Soul ----the soul is the mind ---will and emotions -----So in order to live in this physical world we needed a tangible body ------ so our Spirit and Soul are housed in this Physical tent --so like God we are a Tri Part being ----we are a Spirit being --we possess a soul and we live in a physical body -----

Spirits don't DON"T Folks ----when our spirit and soul leave this body ---IT GOES SOMEWHERE -----

Adam and Eve were created to have a personal relationship with God and to live forever ---there was no death or sickness in the picture ---Spirits live forever and the Body God gave us was designed to replenish and repair itself so the body was designed to sustain itself for as long as God wanted mankind to live on this earth ---- until the Fall of mankind -----Adam lives to be 930 years old by God's mercy only ----He could have killed Adam and Eve both when they disobeyed him but He showed His Agape and Mercy by kicking them out of the Garden and allowing them to live --

There are only 2 places for our Spirit and Soul to Go ----either to be with God or to be with Satan and his demons ----

Hell was created for Satan and his tribe who turned against God ---Hell was never created for people in the Beginning ------but because of Sin Hell enlarged itself to house the wicked ------which after Adam and Eve sinned we became separated from God and that included all of humanity --God made Satan the god of this world and we were all under Satan's reign ------there was not one human good and Holy ---all humanity deserved to have their spirit and soul reside in Hell ----the wages of sin is death and there are 2 deaths for us ---the first death is the body and the 2nd death is the Spirit and Soul being away from God forever in Hell with the god of this world Satan ------

Jesus came to reverse that by Shedding His Blood to cover all sin for all people and to die on the cross to give us back our eternal life ----

Sin now has been dealt with -----so sin doesn't send you to Hell ---Rejecting Jesus sends you to hell--Jesus paid your sin price -----

The Bible most definitely talks about Hell --Jesus describes hell ---Jesus talks more about hell than He does Heaven -----so people thinking there is no hell ---eternal torment mentioned in Scripture is False and dangerous for their Spirit and soul --

100 Bible Verses aboutHell Enlarge It Self
https://www.openbible.info/topics/hell_enlarge_it_self

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Read all ---for yourselves --Just posting this much
What the Bible Says About Hell
https://bible.org/article/what-bible-says-about-hell

Key Facts About Eternity
(1) Everyone will exist eternally either in heaven or hell (Daniel 12:2,3; Matthew 25:46; John 5:28; Revelation 20:14,15).

(2) Everyone has only one life in which to determine their destiny (Hebrews 9:27).

(3) Heaven or hell is determined by whether a person believes (puts their trust) in Christ alone to save them (John 3:16, 36, etc.).

Key Passages About Hell
(1) Hell was designed originally for Satan and his demons (Matthew 25:41; Revelation 20:10).

(2) Hell will also punish the sin of those who reject Christ (Matthew 13:41,50; Revelation 20:11-15; 21:8).

(3) Hell is conscious torment.

• Matthew 13:50 “furnace of fire…weeping and gnashing of teeth”
• Mark 9:48 “where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched”
• Revelation 14:10 “he will be tormented with fire and brimstone”

(4) Hell is eternal and irreversible.

___________________________________________________________________________

this is another read on Hell ---read all yourselves

https://www2.gvsu.edu/pontiusd/hell.html#:~:text=Jesus Christ says in Matthew,enter hell —%THE TRUTH

ABOUT HELL
by Terry Watkins

"And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments. . ." Luke 16:23
What you're about to read is hard to believe. . .
We're going to examine the place the Bible calls hell. We'll present documented evidence for a place called hell. Don't take what you're going to read lightly. YOU COULD BE IN SERIOUS DANGER!
The Bible continually warns of a place called hell. There are over 162 references in the New Testament alone which warns of hell. And over 70 of these references were uttered by the Lord Jesus Christ!

 

[Nehemiah6]

There is material in the Bible, on prima facie consideration, to support either view.

Do you seriously believe that the Bible contradicts itself? So what is your view of Hell?

 

[Journeyman]

I've had experience of many denominations - trinitarian and unitarian - encountering many, many different doctrines and combinations of doctrines. One major issues in contention is the subject of Hell as a place of conscious torment.
There is material in the Bible, on prima facie consideration, to support either view.
I'd be interested to hear others' opinions and biblical evidence for either view.

Hello AndrewMorgan.
I believe unrepentant people and demons will be consciously tormented as their sins are exposed when our Lord returns in blazing fire.
I also believe their humiliation is over, they will no longer exist.

 

[CS1]

I've had experience of many denominations - trinitarian and unitarian - encountering many, many different doctrines and combinations of doctrines. One major issues in contention is the subject of Hell as a place of conscious torment.
There is material in the Bible, on prima facie consideration, to support either view.
I'd be interested to hear others' opinions and biblical evidence for either view.

Jesus said Hell is a place, and it is real, literal, and eternal. Matthew 25:41

 

[Runningman]

I've had experience of many denominations - trinitarian and unitarian - encountering many, many different doctrines and combinations of doctrines. One major issues in contention is the subject of Hell as a place of conscious torment.
There is material in the Bible, on prima facie consideration, to support either view.
I'd be interested to hear others' opinions and biblical evidence for either view.

Hell can sometimes refer to the grave or to a hot place where unrighteous people go to in the after life. It is a place of punishment, but I don’t believe it’s eternal torment because the Bible just doesn’t say that anywhere.

Jesus said God can destroy soul and body in hell. Jesus said those who don’t believe in Him will definitively perish. Paul taught that the wicked will be destroyed. John taught about the second death of the wicked. There there are numerous OT passages about the wicked who perish will be destroyed.

So my perspective is that hell is a real place but it isn’t for eternal torment. Hell itself will eventually be destroyed, too.

 

[rev_GOH]

I've had experience of many denominations - trinitarian and unitarian - encountering many, many different doctrines and combinations of doctrines. One major issues in contention is the subject of Hell as a place of conscious torment.
There is material in the Bible, on prima facie consideration, to support either view.
I'd be interested to hear others' opinions and biblical evidence for either view.

Related to your thread and question, many have often inquired if jesus was in Hell for the three days between his crucifixion and his resurrection.

I recently came across this YouTube podcast on this topic entitled:

"Jesus in Hell: Where jesus was between his death and his resurrection"
Link here

This certainly provides an interesting interpretation -- including a very disturbing question at timestamp 41:20 "is GOd in Hell?" -- a topic for a future thread perhaps.

rev_GOH

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Hello AndrewMorgan.
I believe unrepentant people and demons will be consciously tormented as their sins are exposed when our Lord returns in blazing fire.
I also believe their humiliation is over, they will no longer exist.

some miss the part where hell
Is emptied

“And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:13-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬


it could be ( I dont personally know ) but could be like your saying that hell
Is a place of torment and punishment of all wickedness and after thoer debt is paid do you think some could then repent ? Or be destroyed completely ?

it seems that some who are brought up to jidgement from being in hell are judged at that point and if they are t found in the book of life cast away

I think I understand what your saying and it seems possible and plausible though I don’t really have a conclusion myself I tend to look at other things also and it’s just not completely clear on That. Part magenta got me thinking abo it what your saying awhile ago but I still see evidence for eternal punishment , and eternal Place of torment and no rest for the wicked yet what your saying is also very possible thanks for sharing

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Ok wait, there is another hell thread. I think I have the wrong one.

 

[Nehemiah6]

some miss the part where hell is emptied

It is not Hell that is emptied but Hades. The occupants of Hades are cast into Hell (the Lake of Fire). Which leaves Hades empty. The KJV (and others) failed to make the distinction between Hell and Hades, and caused a lot of confusion.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Jesus said Hell is a place, and it is real, literal, and eternal. Matthew 25:41

And that is the Lake of Fire. Also there are many Scriptures which make this crystal clear.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

The Early Church Fathers believed that some will be "saved through fire" as 1 Cor 3:15 clearly states. They read it as a Reference to Purgatory. The following passage in a Third Century Church Father named St. Cyprian in Africa makes this clear.

St. Cyprian in the Third Century wrote: "It is one thing to stand for pardon, another thing to attain to glory: it is one thing, when cast into prison, not to go out thence until one has paid the uttermost farthing [reference is to Mat 5:26]; another thing at once to receive the wages of faith and courage. It is one thing, tortured by long suffering for sins, to be cleansed and long purged by fire; another to have purged all sins by suffering. It is one thing, in fine, to be in suspense till the sentence of God at the Day of Judgment; another to be at once Crowned by the Lord [as Martyrs are]."

Source: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/050651.htm

"Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing." (Mat 5:26)

What does this mean? That one shall not come out of the prison until one has paid the last penny. But one WILL come out. That's why the Early Church understood such passages to refer not to Hell, which is Eternal, but to Purgatory, temporal.

Parallel Passage: "I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the very last penny." (Luk 12:59)

God Bless.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

It is not Hell that is emptied but Hades. The occupants of Hades are cast into Hell (the Lake of Fire). Which leaves Hades empty. The KJV (and others) failed to make the distinction between Hell and Hades, and caused a lot of confusion.

yeah there’s always some sort of reasoning to reject what it says

“It is not Hell that is emptied but Hades.”


“And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:14-15‬ ‭

the point is the first death leads here to one of these to places whether we say hades or hell

after the death of the body

“And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom:

the rich man also died, and was buried; and in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If you want to say hades I have no issue it’s a place of torment of the dead that eventually is cast itself into the lake of fire. I don’t see the relevance honestly hell and hades are the same place , it’s a place where the dead go who haven't repented until the judgement

“And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:11-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

after this happens

“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1‬ ‭

it seems the first creation has completely passed away now and all things are new it also says there will be no more suffering and pain or death ect

It could be in my opinion not really my own thinking but could be that the lake of fire is what ends hell and the first creation completely

 

[studentoftheword]

Hell can sometimes refer to the grave or to a hot place where unrighteous people go to in the after life. It is a place of punishment, but I don’t believe it’s eternal torment because the Bible just doesn’t say that anywhere.

You need to look up what the Greek word for punishment is ----and you will see here ----it also means torment -----



Strong’s Definitions
κόλασις kólasis, kol'-as-is; from G2849; penal infliction:—punishment, torment.

Strong's Concordance
kolasis: correction
Usage: chastisement, punishment, torment

Cognate: 2851 kólasis (from kolaphos, "a buffeting, a blow") – properly, punishment that "fits" (matches) the one punished; torment

Mat 25:45-46
Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I say -----So you can use everlasting torment here in verse 46 as it means the same as punishment -----

KJV Dictionary Definition: punish
punish
PUN'ISH, v.t. L. punio, from the root of poena,pain. The primary sense is to press or strain.

To pain; to afflict with pain, loss or calamity for a crime or fault; primarily, to afflict with bodily pain
Afflicting with pain, penalty or suffering of any kind, as the retribution of a crime or offense.

KJV Dictionary Definition: torment
torment
pain; anguish; misery, either of body or mind ,suffering
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Both words can be used -----in reference to Hell -----as the person will experience much pain ---anguish --misery --suffering ----and more as they are separated from God for all eternity ------not a nice place to go Folks ----

 

[Amanuensis]

yeah there’s always some sort of reasoning to reject what it says

“It is not Hell that is emptied but Hades.”


“And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:14-15‬ ‭

the point is the first death leads here to one of these to places whether we say hades or hell

after the death of the body

“And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom:

the rich man also died, and was buried; and in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If you want to say hades I have no issue it’s a place of torment of the dead that eventually is cast itself into the lake of fire. I don’t see the relevance honestly hell and hades are the same place , it’s a place where the dead go who haven't repented until the judgement

“And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:11-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

after this happens

“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1‬ ‭

it seems the first creation has completely passed away now and all things are new it also says there will be no more suffering and pain or death ect

It could be in my opinion not really my own thinking but could be that the lake of fire is what ends hell and the first creation completely

Hades and Hell are the same as Sheol and Gehenna. Hebrew and Greek and English. Yes I know that Gehenna was the valley of Hinnom where babies were sacrificed and judgment was declared on it and it became a burning trash dump but it was a word used to represent the hade, sheol, hell of the afterlife for the wicked dead.

The wicked go there. Then one day at the final judgment and resurrection of the wicked dead all of those in hell are brought before the judgment and declared guilty and cast into the Lake of Fire. Hell is cast there in that sense of all it's occupants.

The Lake of Fire becomes their final destination. Consider Hell the county Jail and the Lake of Fire the Prison Farm. But one day all the County Jails are emptied, judged, and the occupants go to the final maximum security prison farm. But of course it is much worse than that but this explains how Hell is cast into the Lake of Fire.

 

[Runningman]

You need to look up what the Greek word for punishment is ----and you will see here ----it also means torment -----



Strong’s Definitions
κόλασις kólasis, kol'-as-is; from G2849; penal infliction:—punishment, torment.

Strong's Concordance
kolasis: correction
Usage: chastisement, punishment, torment

Cognate: 2851 kólasis (from kolaphos, "a buffeting, a blow") – properly, punishment that "fits" (matches) the one punished; torment

Mat 25:45-46
Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I say -----So you can use everlasting torment here in verse 46 as it means the same as punishment -----

KJV Dictionary Definition: punish
punish
PUN'ISH, v.t. L. punio, from the root of poena,pain. The primary sense is to press or strain.

To pain; to afflict with pain, loss or calamity for a crime or fault; primarily, to afflict with bodily pain
Afflicting with pain, penalty or suffering of any kind, as the retribution of a crime or offense.

KJV Dictionary Definition: torment
torment
pain; anguish; misery, either of body or mind ,suffering
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Both words can be used -----in reference to Hell -----as the person will experience much pain ---anguish --misery --suffering ----and more as they are separated from God for all eternity ------not a nice place to go Folks ----

Strong’s isn’t a dictionary where you can just look up alternative meanings and then replace words with. I’m not a Greek expert, but I know enough to understand that there’s a good reason why every Bible version and translation I’ve seen of Matthew 25:46 uses the word punishment and not torment.

If you’ll study how the word punishment was used in Matthew 25:46, you’ll see it’s used as a singular noun, meaning the correct word is punishment, not torment.

The word you’re looking for is possibly G928. You should see how that word is used.

 

[Amanuensis]

Strong’s isn’t a dictionary where you can just look up alternative meanings and then replace words with. I’m not a Greek expert, but I know enough to understand that there’s a good reason why every Bible version and translation I’ve seen of Matthew 25:46 uses the word punishment and not torment.

If you’ll study how the word punishment was used in Matthew 25:46, you’ll see it’s used as a singular noun, meaning the correct word is punishment, not torment.

The word you’re looking for is possibly G928. You should see how that word is used.

Who cares. Punishment is eternal misery by any other name.

 

[Runningman]

Who cares. Punishment is eternal misery by any other name.

“Who cares.” Wow.

Well I for one care intensely about the accuracy of the Bible and I care enough to reply to try to help a brother not change words.

Punishment is not eternal misery.

 

[Amanuensis]

“Who cares.” Wow.

Well I for one care intensely about the accuracy of the Bible and I care enough to reply to try to help a brother not change words.

Punishment is not eternal misery.

We will see.

 

[Amanuensis]

“Who cares.” Wow.

Well I for one care intensely about the accuracy of the Bible and I care enough to reply to try to help a brother not change words.

Punishment is not eternal misery.

The Bible calls this final separation from God “the second death.” In the Book of Revelation the lake of fire is so described (Revelation 20:14). Jesus also identified Gehenna as a second death when He warned: “Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell [Gehenna]” (Matthew 10:28; see also Luke 12:4,5). This clearly refers to another death after the physical death of the body. It is also clear that this death is different in order and in kind. As physical death is separation from the body and from the environment of this life, so the second death is a final and eternal separation from God and from the life to be enjoyed in the new creation. Among those consigned to this second death will be all who take the mark of the beast (Revelation 14:9–11). These will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the angels and Christ. That is, though shut off from the new creation in the lake of fire, they will be able to see the Lamb of God they rejected, just as Lazarus was able to see across the great gulf between Hades and Abraham’s bosom (Luke 16:23). Again, they will not be annihilated, for “the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night” (Revelation 14:11). They will be forever denied the rest promised to the saints.

None of these passages indicates any promise of rehabilitation or restoration once the final judgment is pronounced. No sanctifying agent is revealed in connection with the lake of fire or Gehenna. The fire is parallel to the “worm” of Mark 9:44,46,48 (KJV). It is looked at as punitive, not purifying. There will be no second chance. This should stir the Church to proclaim the message, “Now is the day of salvation” (2 Corinthians 6:2).