And the SMOKE of their torment...No eternal damnation for anyone, except the Devil
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Eternal torment is a false doctrine, among many, in the church. The Bible never says all people will somehow live forever in hell being tormented anywhere.
For one it doesn’t even make sense to have eternal life in hell. Two, the Bible repeatedly says wicked people perish or are destroyed.
Furthermore, there is evidence in early church writings to suggest eternal torment is a doctrine that came later.
Can’t really prove a negative so burden of proof is on the eternal tormenters here. Please read your verses very carefully before posting them.
For one it doesn’t even make sense to have eternal life in hell. Two, the Bible repeatedly says wicked people perish or are destroyed.
Furthermore, there is evidence in early church writings to suggest eternal torment is a doctrine that came later.
Can’t really prove a negative so burden of proof is on the eternal tormenters here. Please read your verses very carefully before posting them.
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This is an extensive study of the topic of hell for anyone interested. It's from a traditional biblical evangelical view. Please don't take the preacher's word for it, check it with Scripture in context.
https://www.kjv1611only.com/video/02preaching/Sermons_Pastor_Anderson/Hell_&_The_Second_Death_Preaching.mp4
Kleronomos,
Do you mind me asking, are you Seventh Day Adventist? The reason I ask is that I vaguely remember your view as similar to SDA .
I have SDA friends. I think that the video, approached from an open mind, may be a blessing.
https://www.kjv1611only.com/video/02preaching/Sermons_Pastor_Anderson/Hell_&_The_Second_Death_Preaching.mp4
Kleronomos,
Do you mind me asking, are you Seventh Day Adventist? The reason I ask is that I vaguely remember your view as similar to SDA .
I have SDA friends. I think that the video, approached from an open mind, may be a blessing.
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All the elements are burned up when Christ returns, the works and wisdom of man.
Could you just give the verses that you are using for what you are trying to say?
AND GOD IS THAT CONSUMING FIRE
This earth isn't going anywhere. It is being made new. It is the AGE that disappears and all knowledge of it. Nothing new under the sun.
The former things will be forgotten.
GREEK, always seems to clear up misunderstandings in what is TRANSLATED.
And I saw a heaven new and an earth new for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away and the sea not is any longer
2537. kainos
Strong's Concordance
kainos: new, fresh
Original Word: καινός, ή, όν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: kainos
Phonetic Spelling: (kahee-nos')
Definition: new, fresh
Usage: fresh, new, unused, novel.
HELPS Word-studies
2537 kainós – properly, new in quality (innovation), fresh in development or opportunity – because "not found exactly like this before."
565. aperchomai ►
Strong's Concordance
aperchomai: to go away, go after
Original Word: ἀπέρχομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: aperchomai
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-erkh'-om-ahee)
Definition: to go away, go after
Usage: I come or go away from, depart, return, arrive, go after, follow.
The old AGE ended, a new AGE begun.
If anyone wonders why I share the good news of salvation with others?
I want them to be saved from hell and be with the Lord forever.
This is going to be 5 months of suffering on the earth BEFORE Hell is the final destination for those in the last half of the tribulation.
The wrath of God...
https://www.kjv1611only.com/video/12other/Locust_From_Hell_Visuals_Included!.mp4
This is very serious and humbling. /\
I want them to be saved from hell and be with the Lord forever.
This is going to be 5 months of suffering on the earth BEFORE Hell is the final destination for those in the last half of the tribulation.
The wrath of God...
https://www.kjv1611only.com/video/12other/Locust_From_Hell_Visuals_Included!.mp4
This is very serious and humbling. /\
“Have I missed any important SCRIPTURES, anything WRITTEN that changes any of this”
yes you missed what the judge of all
Mankknd said regarding his return and the day of judgement of all mankind
“When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: and before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
….. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.”
Matthew 25:31-32, 41, 46 KJV
If you just read the context of this
“And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.”
Revelation 14:9-11 KJV
That’s clearly talking about people who serve Satan thier torment, they have no rest day or night
if you have no rest ever this should end the idea that we’re just snuffed out
of course this is one of those subjects people don’t change thier mind about even when Jesus said things plainly we tend to break down berses that seem to only support what we already think but objectively anyone that read this stuff would come to the same conclusion
yet we die on earth our living soul gets judged. And we’re going one of two destinations this spiritual teaching about the afterlife is pretty basic
“And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; and in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.”
Luke 16:22-24
one man does and is taken into the kingdom after his body died and was buried he is alive with Abraham
another man died and was buried and he was alive in hell being tormented conscious and aware of his torment
Jesus doesn’t teach erroneous things whether one says “ this is an actual account of two men “ or one says “ this is a parable “ doesn’t matter a Lara me is a spiritual teaching the subject here shows us two places men go after they die one place is torment the other peace
Jesus isn’t going to use erroneous examples in his teachkngs
there’s an eternal home for Gods people after we leave this world and there’s an eye rub Al home for satans people after they leave this earth
children of God follow Christ home and children of the devil follow his parts home it will not be pretty for those who serve Satan on earth they will share in his inheritance just as Gods children will share in his
This earth is only temporary there is eternity afterwards
yes you missed what the judge of all
Mankknd said regarding his return and the day of judgement of all mankind
“When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: and before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
….. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.”
Matthew 25:31-32, 41, 46 KJV
If you just read the context of this
“And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.”
Revelation 14:9-11 KJV
That’s clearly talking about people who serve Satan thier torment, they have no rest day or night
if you have no rest ever this should end the idea that we’re just snuffed out
of course this is one of those subjects people don’t change thier mind about even when Jesus said things plainly we tend to break down berses that seem to only support what we already think but objectively anyone that read this stuff would come to the same conclusion
yet we die on earth our living soul gets judged. And we’re going one of two destinations this spiritual teaching about the afterlife is pretty basic
“And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; and in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.”
Luke 16:22-24
one man does and is taken into the kingdom after his body died and was buried he is alive with Abraham
another man died and was buried and he was alive in hell being tormented conscious and aware of his torment
Jesus doesn’t teach erroneous things whether one says “ this is an actual account of two men “ or one says “ this is a parable “ doesn’t matter a Lara me is a spiritual teaching the subject here shows us two places men go after they die one place is torment the other peace
Jesus isn’t going to use erroneous examples in his teachkngs
there’s an eternal home for Gods people after we leave this world and there’s an eye rub Al home for satans people after they leave this earth
children of God follow Christ home and children of the devil follow his parts home it will not be pretty for those who serve Satan on earth they will share in his inheritance just as Gods children will share in his
This earth is only temporary there is eternity afterwards
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Thanks Kleronomos.
I don't know it all, but we know that this is a subject that God would want us all to know about. Fortunately, there's a lot of material for investigation in the Bible. If you're like me, I'm learning more all the time.
Have you come across that specific thing that Jesus saves us from when we believe on Him?
I don't know it all, but we know that this is a subject that God would want us all to know about. Fortunately, there's a lot of material for investigation in the Bible. If you're like me, I'm learning more all the time.
Have you come across that specific thing that Jesus saves us from when we believe on Him?
Depart into everlasting fire, not forever and ever you will be on fire. THE FIRE IS EVERLASTING, the 'departing and the departed are not' but like you said we all see what we want to see.
For souls to never be consumed they would have to have and equal, and for lack of a better word, 'strength' to GOD wouldn't they?
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Not sure how the annihilationists explain away the fact that Jesus says that some punishment of the lost will be more tolerable than the the punishment others get.
If all the lost are annihilated by being tossed into the lake of fire, how could some suffering be more tolerable?
Are some going to be tortured for awhile and THEN tossed into the LOF?
If all the lost are annihilated by being tossed into the lake of fire, how could some suffering be more tolerable?
Are some going to be tortured for awhile and THEN tossed into the LOF?
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P
King James Bible
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
New King James Version
And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
American Standard Version
And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.
Berean Study Bible
And if anyone was found whose name was not written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Guess i need to get a new bible......thanks to the o.p.
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
New King James Version
And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
American Standard Version
And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.
Berean Study Bible
And if anyone was found whose name was not written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Guess i need to get a new bible......thanks to the o.p.
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There are apparently those punished with few stripes and those with many.
There's degrees of punishment it seems.
In brief, you doubtless read the verse in Revelation from your remark. 20
"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."
At the Great White Throne Judgement after those in hell are judged, they will be cast into the lake of fire. I'm not an annihilationist, but IF I were that sounds like a way that I would Not want to go.
There's degrees of punishment it seems.
In brief, you doubtless read the verse in Revelation from your remark. 20
"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."
At the Great White Throne Judgement after those in hell are judged, they will be cast into the lake of fire. I'm not an annihilationist, but IF I were that sounds like a way that I would Not want to go.
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That's probably because the verse you're talking about doesn't say punishment, suffering, or torture. The verse you're talking about says judgment.
Matthew 10:15
15Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Any other verses?
Matthew 10:15
15Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Any other verses?
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Lol! And just WHAT is going to be more tolerable during this judgement?
And while your at it, maybe you can explain away how the Pharisees are going to have a GREATER condemnation?
Luke 20:47
King James Version
47 Which devour widows' houses, and for a shew make long prayers: the same shall receive greater damnation.
And while your at it, maybe you can explain away how the Pharisees are going to have a GREATER condemnation?
Luke 20:47
King James Version
47 Which devour widows' houses, and for a shew make long prayers: the same shall receive greater damnation.
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