Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation
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1 marriage happen in revelation not now
2 adam and Eve was in the garden I think if they don’t commit sin their future offspring also in the garden
and no body go to hell
Adam and Eve His (God’s) children so does their offspring then because children status is permanent if you follow your logic no body go to hell
The bible say no
no abide cut off cast into fire it doesn’t matter he use garden resident
2 adam and Eve was in the garden I think if they don’t commit sin their future offspring also in the garden
and no body go to hell
Adam and Eve His (God’s) children so does their offspring then because children status is permanent if you follow your logic no body go to hell
The bible say no
no abide cut off cast into fire it doesn’t matter he use garden resident
Never? Perhaps you need to get out more. The original 12 steps, which are the basis of many recovery/treatment programs, being slightly modified (with permission) to hundreds of fellowships that address the many issues, addictions, and challenges/problems people struggle to deal with and overcome in life, was designed specifically to enable people to develop and maintain a personal relationship with the One True God. These 12 steps were enlarged from a fewer number of steps that were initially created by an Evangelical Christian organization known as the Oxford Group, and are solidly Biblically based. And it has helped millions and millions of people world-wide.
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matt 25
34Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angel
how do you say not about salvation
V 34 take your inheritance the kingdom ( heaven)
why
v35-36
helping the needy
how much
I am not Jesus and he not say anything in those verse
to me it mean as long as you have love it count as help
is jesus also say about hell
yes
v 41
depart from Jesus go to everlasting fire
jesus not say stay with me but no crown
Jesus say depart from Me into everlasting fire
34Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angel
how do you say not about salvation
V 34 take your inheritance the kingdom ( heaven)
why
v35-36
helping the needy
how much
I am not Jesus and he not say anything in those verse
to me it mean as long as you have love it count as help
is jesus also say about hell
yes
v 41
depart from Jesus go to everlasting fire
jesus not say stay with me but no crown
Jesus say depart from Me into everlasting fire
FreeGrace2 said:
Then how can any one know how much is enough for salvation? There's no security in that.
Yes, He does. But NOT for salvation. And NOT for never perishing either.
I say it because of what Jesus said about those He gives eternal life. He said they shall never perish, and I believe what He said.
However, about Matt 25, you failed to include all of the text. You know, for CONTEXT. Was that your intention?
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne.
32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
This is the beginning of the context. We see that Jesus separates the "sheep" from the "goats" in v.32.
So, in v.34, where you BEGAN the text, Jesus was speaking to the "sheep". So everything He said from v.34-40 were to the "sheep".
And in v.37 we read that the "sheep" are referred to as "the righteous".
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
So we see here that the sheep, also called "the righteous" here and in v.37, are the ones who will avoid "eternal punishment".
Or, as Jesus said in John 10:28, SHALL NEVER PERISH. So these "sheep" or "the righteous" are the SAME ONES Jesus said He gives eternal life in John 10:28.
So, what is obvious to those with some discernment, the text isn't about what to DO to go to heaven, but what BELIEVERS do for the Lord.
Why do you twist this text to try to make it about what to DO to get into heaven? That is dishonest.
Said to believers.
They were believers. Their inheritance was GUARANTEED per Eph 1:13,14 because they were sealed with the Holy Spirit.
Uh, "help" for what, exactly?
Right. Those who 'have not believed' will be condemned. The "goats" are unbelievers. Condemned to the lake of fire.
The destination of those who 'have not believed'. Per John 3:18 and 2 Thess 2:12. Have you ever read these 2 verses?
Again, those who have not believed (never believed) cannot go to heaven. They weren't given eternal life.
Remember John 10:28? ONLY believers are given eternal life, which is WHEN they become believers, per John 5:24, and they shall NEVER PERISH.
Then how can any one know how much is enough for salvation? There's no security in that.
Yes, He does. But NOT for salvation. And NOT for never perishing either.
I say it because of what Jesus said about those He gives eternal life. He said they shall never perish, and I believe what He said.
However, about Matt 25, you failed to include all of the text. You know, for CONTEXT. Was that your intention?
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne.
32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
This is the beginning of the context. We see that Jesus separates the "sheep" from the "goats" in v.32.
So, in v.34, where you BEGAN the text, Jesus was speaking to the "sheep". So everything He said from v.34-40 were to the "sheep".
And in v.37 we read that the "sheep" are referred to as "the righteous".
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
So we see here that the sheep, also called "the righteous" here and in v.37, are the ones who will avoid "eternal punishment".
Or, as Jesus said in John 10:28, SHALL NEVER PERISH. So these "sheep" or "the righteous" are the SAME ONES Jesus said He gives eternal life in John 10:28.
So, what is obvious to those with some discernment, the text isn't about what to DO to go to heaven, but what BELIEVERS do for the Lord.
Why do you twist this text to try to make it about what to DO to get into heaven? That is dishonest.
Said to believers.
They were believers. Their inheritance was GUARANTEED per Eph 1:13,14 because they were sealed with the Holy Spirit.
Uh, "help" for what, exactly?
Right. Those who 'have not believed' will be condemned. The "goats" are unbelievers. Condemned to the lake of fire.
The destination of those who 'have not believed'. Per John 3:18 and 2 Thess 2:12. Have you ever read these 2 verses?
Again, those who have not believed (never believed) cannot go to heaven. They weren't given eternal life.
Remember John 10:28? ONLY believers are given eternal life, which is WHEN they become believers, per John 5:24, and they shall NEVER PERISH.
Jesus also included the REASON to believe; to NEVER PERISH.
Fine. Then you WILL PERISH. Your choice.
Nope. No salvation for those who don't have faith, don't believe.
It means to believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and trusting in Him alone for salvation.
Well then, since you DON'T believe what Jesus teaches in either John 5:24, where believers POSSESS eternal life, OR John 10:28 where Jesus teaches that recipients of eternal life (believers) SHALL NEVER PERISH, it follows that YOU YOURSELF do NOT have faith in what Jesus teaches.
You are a rejector of what Jesus teaches.
You have the SAME NOTION as those in Matt 7:21-23
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’
23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
Notice that Jesus explains in v.21 that NOT ALL who address Him as "Lord" will "enter the kingdom".
In v.22 this crowd appeals to Jesus on entering the kingdom BASED on what they DID in His Name.
v.23 clarifies: Jesus NEVER knew them.
This proves that this crowd didn't ever believe in Him, or He wouldn't have said "I NEVER knew you". He would have said 'I USED to know you, but not anymore".
So, again, the Bible's teaching is very clear; it is those who NEVER believed who will be condemned and NEVER enter the kingdom.
Entering the kingdom has NOTHING to do with what humans DO for the Lord, but EVERYTHING to do with what the Lord has done for the believer.
Fine. Then you WILL PERISH. Your choice.
Nope. No salvation for those who don't have faith, don't believe.
It means to believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and trusting in Him alone for salvation.
Well then, since you DON'T believe what Jesus teaches in either John 5:24, where believers POSSESS eternal life, OR John 10:28 where Jesus teaches that recipients of eternal life (believers) SHALL NEVER PERISH, it follows that YOU YOURSELF do NOT have faith in what Jesus teaches.
You are a rejector of what Jesus teaches.
You have the SAME NOTION as those in Matt 7:21-23
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’
23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
Notice that Jesus explains in v.21 that NOT ALL who address Him as "Lord" will "enter the kingdom".
In v.22 this crowd appeals to Jesus on entering the kingdom BASED on what they DID in His Name.
v.23 clarifies: Jesus NEVER knew them.
This proves that this crowd didn't ever believe in Him, or He wouldn't have said "I NEVER knew you". He would have said 'I USED to know you, but not anymore".
So, again, the Bible's teaching is very clear; it is those who NEVER believed who will be condemned and NEVER enter the kingdom.
Entering the kingdom has NOTHING to do with what humans DO for the Lord, but EVERYTHING to do with what the Lord has done for the believer.
The sheep help the poor?
Do they help the poor when they are sheep?
Or do they help the poor when they are goats, before they can become sheep?
Your saying that a person must be a goat because they must feed a lot of people. Before they can become a sheep.
If a person is a sheep before they feed Jesus, then they must be saved before they fed Jesus (the poor).
Do they help the poor when they are sheep?
Or do they help the poor when they are goats, before they can become sheep?
Your saying that a person must be a goat because they must feed a lot of people. Before they can become a sheep.
If a person is a sheep before they feed Jesus, then they must be saved before they fed Jesus (the poor).
yes the sheep is the righteous
but also Jesus explain what the sheep did, feed Jesus when He hungry etc
the goat is non believer and Jesus explain what goat did, not helping the poor
i don’t say helping the poor save you but the saved have Jesus in and turn to be living person that help the poor
never perish after endure to the end Matt 24:13
but also Jesus explain what the sheep did, feed Jesus when He hungry etc
the goat is non believer and Jesus explain what goat did, not helping the poor
i don’t say helping the poor save you but the saved have Jesus in and turn to be living person that help the poor
never perish after endure to the end Matt 24:13
2 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
People don't invite Jesus first, then Jesus changes them into being His sheep.
God does the calling and saving, and not according to our works.
Salvation is not done by man saving himself by works like in the Frank Sinatra song My Way.
Luke 6:32
For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
Goat, as you define it, love those that love them. The sinners in the above verse are "pre-eminently sinful, especially wicked" what you would call a goat.
You got that right, apart from Jesus you can do nothing.
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
People don't invite Jesus first, then Jesus changes them into being His sheep.
God does the calling and saving, and not according to our works.
Salvation is not done by man saving himself by works like in the Frank Sinatra song My Way.
Luke 6:32
For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
Goat, as you define it, love those that love them. The sinners in the above verse are "pre-eminently sinful, especially wicked" what you would call a goat.
You got that right, apart from Jesus you can do nothing.
Bingo! The sheep DID feed the poor. But since they were "sheep", they are already SAVED. So feeding/helping the poor doesn't contribute to salvation.
And?
Are you finally beginning to change your opinions here?
Well, guess not. Never perish after receiving eternal life. John 10:28.
John 10:28 proves that your opinion about Matt 24:13 is flat out wrong.
Those who receive eternal life (John 10:28) which is WHEN they become a believer (John 5:24) SHALL NEVER PERISH (John 10:28).
The unsaved crowd in Matt 7:21-23 were enduring to the end, yet, Jesus never knew them.
And?
Are you finally beginning to change your opinions here?
Well, guess not. Never perish after receiving eternal life. John 10:28.
John 10:28 proves that your opinion about Matt 24:13 is flat out wrong.
Those who receive eternal life (John 10:28) which is WHEN they become a believer (John 5:24) SHALL NEVER PERISH (John 10:28).
The unsaved crowd in Matt 7:21-23 were enduring to the end, yet, Jesus never knew them.
Seem to me you believe Jesus talk about heaven or hell in Matt 25
for example you seem to believe the word kingdom of God in verse 34 mean heaven and the word eternal fire in v 41 mean hell
so in this topic Jesus not talking about heaven with great reward and heaven with little reward
it is about salvation
but yes this lesson not say save by work but the saved do bear fruit work of love
faith come first than agaphe love follow produce by Jesus in believer than believer bear it out
from outside look believer do it but it is Jesus do from inside
that is why sheep surprise
when I meet you hungry and feed you
some believer may born 2000 year after Jesus back to heaven how he meet Jesus hungry
i believe as long as you live the poor though some may don’t have money to help it will count as fruit
Of course if one have money will help feed the hungry if he have love
you can’t say I love the poor and have money not help them
jesus talk about genuine love not fake love
only produce by Jesus through believer
for example you seem to believe the word kingdom of God in verse 34 mean heaven and the word eternal fire in v 41 mean hell
so in this topic Jesus not talking about heaven with great reward and heaven with little reward
it is about salvation
but yes this lesson not say save by work but the saved do bear fruit work of love
faith come first than agaphe love follow produce by Jesus in believer than believer bear it out
from outside look believer do it but it is Jesus do from inside
that is why sheep surprise
when I meet you hungry and feed you
some believer may born 2000 year after Jesus back to heaven how he meet Jesus hungry
i believe as long as you live the poor though some may don’t have money to help it will count as fruit
Of course if one have money will help feed the hungry if he have love
you can’t say I love the poor and have money not help them
jesus talk about genuine love not fake love
only produce by Jesus through believer
You just admitted that "faith come first than agaphe love follow".
Now your stating that it is not faith plus works that save. It was only ever that faith in Jesus that qualified you for salvation in the first place. Of course, only a Christian can exert agape love.
We really only preach Christ crucified, the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Then after some time an obedient Christian will bear the fruit.
Do not put the cart before the horse.
Now your stating that it is not faith plus works that save. It was only ever that faith in Jesus that qualified you for salvation in the first place. Of course, only a Christian can exert agape love.
We really only preach Christ crucified, the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Then after some time an obedient Christian will bear the fruit.
Do not put the cart before the horse.
I know for long time save by faith but faith bear the fruit of loving work
i was believe like what you do save not by work mean robing the bank for living still go to heaven as long as you have faith still go to heaven with less reward
after listening Muslim Christian debate where Muslim accuse Christian as crazy religion save by faith mean ok to kill, it make me read more bible is that man made doctrine or it is bible
some Muslim say you only need to believe a second than Bac/m to be robber still go to heaven because OSAS
After I do more investigation of what Jesus say about faith I know that it was wrong
jesus never teach to rob the bank as long as you have faith you save
my summary about Jesus teaching is faith mean believe and obey His teaching to love not to kill
i was believe like what you do save not by work mean robing the bank for living still go to heaven as long as you have faith still go to heaven with less reward
after listening Muslim Christian debate where Muslim accuse Christian as crazy religion save by faith mean ok to kill, it make me read more bible is that man made doctrine or it is bible
some Muslim say you only need to believe a second than Bac/m to be robber still go to heaven because OSAS
After I do more investigation of what Jesus say about faith I know that it was wrong
jesus never teach to rob the bank as long as you have faith you save
my summary about Jesus teaching is faith mean believe and obey His teaching to love not to kill
For those who seek the Truth.
Now to deal with the Elephant in the Room....
What does Paul's teaching mean..."Not by works, but by Grace"?
Lets me rephrase it....so all of you folks can see the Truth.
You are Not saved the Works of the Law,...But by......Your.....Grace, your Grace....towards others.
That's right!!
If "Works"...were required for those under the Law of Moses, to be in covenant with God...
Doesn't it stand to reason, Paul is saying, Your "Grace"...is required under the Law of Christ?
Paul is simply telling the Jews....the Works under the Law of Moses are no longer required to be in a covenant with God.
Why?
Because, that covenant has been done away with, because the Works under the Laws of Mose...did not change the heart of the sinner.
Grace is the new requirement, for Grace is the name of the Law of Christ. Laws we must keep to be in a covenant with God, just like those who were under the law of Moses, were required to keep the Law.
Only this covenant corrects what the Law of Moses couldn't. It can change the heart of the sinner.
Now think about it folks....a covenant, is by definition...Laws we must keep, to be under a covenant.
What are the Laws of Grace???
Jesus gave us Two commandments, Two Commandments we must keep to be in a covenant with God.
"Love God..and Love your neighbor."
This is what Paul means by being "Under Grace"..,being under the covenant of Grace.
You must keep these Two Commandments to be under Grace, to be under the covenant of Grace with God.
I know..I know..Paul says in some places, Gods Grace. But notice what John says...in (John 1:16)
"And of His fullness have we all received grace...for grace."
Now to deal with the Elephant in the Room....
What does Paul's teaching mean..."Not by works, but by Grace"?
Lets me rephrase it....so all of you folks can see the Truth.
You are Not saved the Works of the Law,...But by......Your.....Grace, your Grace....towards others.
That's right!!
If "Works"...were required for those under the Law of Moses, to be in covenant with God...
Doesn't it stand to reason, Paul is saying, Your "Grace"...is required under the Law of Christ?
Paul is simply telling the Jews....the Works under the Law of Moses are no longer required to be in a covenant with God.
Why?
Because, that covenant has been done away with, because the Works under the Laws of Mose...did not change the heart of the sinner.
Grace is the new requirement, for Grace is the name of the Law of Christ. Laws we must keep to be in a covenant with God, just like those who were under the law of Moses, were required to keep the Law.
Only this covenant corrects what the Law of Moses couldn't. It can change the heart of the sinner.
Now think about it folks....a covenant, is by definition...Laws we must keep, to be under a covenant.
What are the Laws of Grace???
Jesus gave us Two commandments, Two Commandments we must keep to be in a covenant with God.
"Love God..and Love your neighbor."
This is what Paul means by being "Under Grace"..,being under the covenant of Grace.
You must keep these Two Commandments to be under Grace, to be under the covenant of Grace with God.
I know..I know..Paul says in some places, Gods Grace. But notice what John says...in (John 1:16)
"And of His fullness have we all received grace...for grace."