Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation
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FreeGrace2 said:
Sure. So does James. His point is that the ONLY WAY to demonstrate your faith to others is by your deeds.
And your former pastor demonstrated his faith to others, as you observed.
iow, he was living out his faith, which ALL believers are to do.
However, did this pastor think he was working for salvation? yes or no.
Fair enough. If this is the pastor you earlier said taught eternal security, then there is no way he would think he was working for his salvation. He would know better than to make such a statement.
Sure. So does James. His point is that the ONLY WAY to demonstrate your faith to others is by your deeds.
And your former pastor demonstrated his faith to others, as you observed.
iow, he was living out his faith, which ALL believers are to do.
However, did this pastor think he was working for salvation? yes or no.
Fair enough. If this is the pastor you earlier said taught eternal security, then there is no way he would think he was working for his salvation. He would know better than to make such a statement.
FreeGrace2 said:
No, Jesus NEVER said that. Where do you get your ideas from,since they don't come from the Bible?
Jesus said whoever believes POSSESSES eternal life in John 5:24. That's rather clear, right?
Jesus said recipients of eternal life (Jn 5:24) shall never perish in John 10:28. That's also rather clear, right?
So you don't read my posts very carefully.
Jesus didn't say what you claim He said. Just like you don't believe what He CLEARLY said in John 5:24 and 10:28.
Did you miss the 2 question marks (?) in my post. Those represent questions. For you to answer. Why won't you answer the 2 questions?
Look at my statement about each verse, and answer the question about my statement beign clear and what the verse teaches.
No, Jesus NEVER said that. Where do you get your ideas from,since they don't come from the Bible?
Jesus said whoever believes POSSESSES eternal life in John 5:24. That's rather clear, right?
Jesus said recipients of eternal life (Jn 5:24) shall never perish in John 10:28. That's also rather clear, right?
So you don't read my posts very carefully.
Jesus didn't say what you claim He said. Just like you don't believe what He CLEARLY said in John 5:24 and 10:28.
Did you miss the 2 question marks (?) in my post. Those represent questions. For you to answer. Why won't you answer the 2 questions?
Look at my statement about each verse, and answer the question about my statement beign clear and what the verse teaches.
1.
friendly association, especially with people who share one's interests.
"they valued fun and good fellowship as the cement of the community"
Similar:
companionship
companionability
sociability
comradeship
fraternization
camaraderie
friendship
mutual support
mutual respect
mutual liking
amiability
amity
affability
geniality
kindliness
cordiality
intimacy
social intercourse
social contact
association
closeness
togetherness
solidarity
chumminess
palliness
clubbiness
mateyness
friendly association, especially with people who share one's interests.
"they valued fun and good fellowship as the cement of the community"
Similar:
companionship
companionability
sociability
comradeship
fraternization
camaraderie
friendship
mutual support
mutual respect
mutual liking
amiability
amity
affability
geniality
kindliness
cordiality
intimacy
social intercourse
social contact
association
closeness
togetherness
solidarity
chumminess
palliness
clubbiness
mateyness
I copy what fellowship is
- fr associate with
- to me the doctrine possible have faith without fellowship is illogical
Basically it was his testimony....What he experienced when he went from death..To Life...AKA, being born of God. As you know, When we are born, we are born into sin...AKA,....Slaves of sin.
Until we are freed from the bondage of our master, Sin, we will continue to sin.
How do we get free from this bondage?
Paul gives a marriage Analogy in the first few verses of (Romans 7), which gives us the answer to that question.
Which I will explain...
Paul is simply saying, we can not be free of our master/Husband, until he dies!!
Now how does that happen?
When, The wife/The Believer.... commits Adultery, the penalty for that Adultery is death.
How does a believer commit adultery against their husband/ Sin Master?
Sin wants us to do Evil,....Christ.... the one we Love, doesn't want us to sin, he wants us to do acts of righteousness...To Love God and Love our neighbor.
So our acts of righteousness, are like acts of Adultery, when sin is your husband/master.
So without those Good works...those Acts of Righteousness, ...Those acts of Adultery, sin....will not die.
Had to make this short...Outta time....But if you have any questions or comments...
Until we are freed from the bondage of our master, Sin, we will continue to sin.
How do we get free from this bondage?
Paul gives a marriage Analogy in the first few verses of (Romans 7), which gives us the answer to that question.
Which I will explain...
Paul is simply saying, we can not be free of our master/Husband, until he dies!!
Now how does that happen?
When, The wife/The Believer.... commits Adultery, the penalty for that Adultery is death.
How does a believer commit adultery against their husband/ Sin Master?
Sin wants us to do Evil,....Christ.... the one we Love, doesn't want us to sin, he wants us to do acts of righteousness...To Love God and Love our neighbor.
So our acts of righteousness, are like acts of Adultery, when sin is your husband/master.
So without those Good works...those Acts of Righteousness, ...Those acts of Adultery, sin....will not die.
Had to make this short...Outta time....But if you have any questions or comments...
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Well, thank you for your transparency. And by this answer, you have clearly shown that you do NOT believe what Jesus said about those who will NEVER PERISH. That means salvation is secure. And we know from John 5:24 that when a person becomes a believer, they possess eternal life.
For the 7 year tribulation, yes. For soul salvation, HELL no.
What they do doesn't have any effect on their SECURE salvation.
Are you so unaware of the Bible that you have MISSED all of the commands to be holy and blameless? Why would the Holy Spirit guide the writers of Scripture to include these commands IF IF IF all believers DO what is described?
Are you able to figure that out? Or do I need to explain it to you?
The FACT that you blatantly reject what Jesus said about who possesses eternal life from John 5:24 and the guarantee for possessors of eternal life in John 10:28 shows that you are yourself a liar.
You claim to follow Jesus but you reject what He teaches. Instead, you have focused on a verse that the context shows is about the 7 year tribulation.
For the 7 year tribulation, yes. For soul salvation, HELL no.
What they do doesn't have any effect on their SECURE salvation.
Are you so unaware of the Bible that you have MISSED all of the commands to be holy and blameless? Why would the Holy Spirit guide the writers of Scripture to include these commands IF IF IF all believers DO what is described?
Are you able to figure that out? Or do I need to explain it to you?
The FACT that you blatantly reject what Jesus said about who possesses eternal life from John 5:24 and the guarantee for possessors of eternal life in John 10:28 shows that you are yourself a liar.
You claim to follow Jesus but you reject what He teaches. Instead, you have focused on a verse that the context shows is about the 7 year tribulation.
Thank you for expanding on the concept of "fellowship".
Now, once again, I will show you how "fellowship" isn't guaranteed in salvation, as you suppose.
In God's plan for the permanent relationship of marriage, does the marriage GUARANTEE fellowship in that relationship?
Another example: parent and child. This is a permanent relationship. Does this relationship GUARANTEE fellowship?
In both examples, if one party offends the other, fellowship is, as the father of the idiot prodigal son said, dead or lost.
Do you know what offends God? Sin. Sin breaks fellowship with God. Fellowship is restored WHEN (and only when) the sin is confessed per 1 John 1:9.
Now, once again, I will show you how "fellowship" isn't guaranteed in salvation, as you suppose.
In God's plan for the permanent relationship of marriage, does the marriage GUARANTEE fellowship in that relationship?
Another example: parent and child. This is a permanent relationship. Does this relationship GUARANTEE fellowship?
In both examples, if one party offends the other, fellowship is, as the father of the idiot prodigal son said, dead or lost.
Do you know what offends God? Sin. Sin breaks fellowship with God. Fellowship is restored WHEN (and only when) the sin is confessed per 1 John 1:9.