The offer of Salvation is universal, but the application is only : "by Faith".

[Runningman]

No, I don’t know where you stand with God. But Christ bore the curse due us. He has given us His Spirit that we may grow in understanding of His Word (among other things)

Okay I understand. I’m a Christian.

Below is the curse of fallen man and a fallen world and it’s still active in the world and in all living people. Christ didn’t take it away, not yet. Though a New Heavens and New Earth is coming later. The curse that Christ took away was the curse of the Law of Moses.

Genesis 3:16-20 KJV
16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

17And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

18Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

20And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

 

[Jackson123]

So why did you challenge (in post #183) this statement of mine (in post #180)?...

We’re saved by the Person of Jesus Christ through faith in His death and resurrection…not His teachings.

Yes, and Noah saved from flood by his faith from the information come from the Lord

to make Noah don’t need work, God can send the angel to build an ark

so Noah save from flood and don’t need a lot of his participation

seem the Lord design a system “ I save you but you need to obey Me”

The Lord make Abraham great nation but you need to obey Me working hard to walk 2000 mile from Iraq to Israel

The Lord able to make them fly if He want, He can do what ever He want

seem He want obedience

I save you but you have to believe Me

in Noah case believe mean work 10 thousand hour to build an ark
for Abraham believe mean walk 2000 mile
believe mean follow His instruction

for us follow His instruction is abide and you will bear fruit of love or cut and cast into fire

 

[Inquisitor]

That verse says faith is a work.

John 6:28,29
28Then they inquired, “What must we do to perform the works of God?”
29Jesus replied, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.”

As far as I’m aware, there isn’t an Old Testament command to believe in the Messiah. There are many prophecies about a coming Messiah, (later revealed to be Jesus of Nazareth) but no such command to believe in Him in the OT Scriptures. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

Also, not all of the Old Testament prophecies regarding Jesus were understood to be Messianic prophecies until Jesus and/or His apostles showed what they really were.

This means Jesus had an uphill climb to convince people who He was exactly, often differing to miracles instead of knowledge/wisdom from Scripture to win converts.

The work of believing in “the One God sent” is therefore not a jot or jittle from the codified law of Moses; it isn’t a “work of the law” so to speak. Rather, believing in Jesus is a good work of obedience related to doing the will of God.

Abraham believed in Jesus.

Genesis 15:6
Then he believed in the Lord; and He credited it to him as righteousness.

The "Lord" in the verse above is obviously the Creator of Heaven and Earth.

The Creator of Heaven and Earth was our Lord Jesus Christ, as the verse below explains.

Colossians 1:15-16
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation: for by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominions, or rulers, or authorities, all things have been created through Him (Jesus) and for Him (Jesus).

From Genesis to Revelation, we have only ever known, only ever heard, or even seen, just one Lord and Savior.

Jesus spoke to Moses and lead the Israelites out of Egypt.

Jesus gave the law to Moses.

Jesus is everywhere in the Old Testament and dominates the New Testament.

Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath.

Jesus is the only name in Heaven by which anyone can be saved.

 

[Dino246]

Mem insulted Abraham's wife Sarah using those labels to insult her barrenness.
Read their words slowly to see that.
I won't repost them here out of respect for Sarah's memory as God's appointed and blessed mother of nations.

Dino was OK with it, to his shame. No one should defend that blasphemy. Mem meant nothing good by those words.
Read their initial insult post and the follow-up when the insult was noted.
He and Sarah are tight.

Quit yer whining and move on, snowflake. You’re so far off base you’re playing in the next county.

 

[crossnote]

Okay I understand. I’m a Christian.

Below is the curse of fallen man and a fallen world and it’s still active in the world and in all living people. Christ didn’t take it away, not yet. Though a New Heavens and New Earth is coming later. The curse that Christ took away was the curse of the Law of Moses.

Genesis 3:16-20 KJV
16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

17And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

18Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

20And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

The part of the curse that remains unresolved is the redemption of our bodies.

 

[Magenta]

Abraham believed in Jesus.

Genesis 15:6
Then he believed in the Lord; and He credited it to him as righteousness.

The "Lord" in the verse above is obviously the Creator of Heaven and Earth.

The Creator of Heaven and Earth was our Lord Jesus Christ, as the verse below explains.

Colossians 1:15-16
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation: for by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominions, or rulers, or authorities, all things have been created through Him (Jesus) and for Him (Jesus).

From Genesis to Revelation, we have only ever known, only ever heard, or even seen, just one Lord and Savior.

Jesus spoke to Moses and lead the Israelites out of Egypt.

Jesus gave the law to Moses.

Jesus is everywhere in the Old Testament and dominates the New Testament.

Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath.

Jesus is the only name in Heaven by which anyone can be saved.

Jesus said, "Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see My day. He saw it and was glad.”

Job said:

Job 19:25-27a

 

[crossnote]

Yes, and Noah saved from flood by his faith from the information come from the Lord

to make Noah don’t need work, God can send the angel to build an ark

so Noah save from flood and don’t need a lot of his participation

seem the Lord design a system “ I save you but you need to obey Me”

The Lord make Abraham great nation but you need to obey Me working hard to walk 2000 mile from Iraq to Israel

The Lord able to make them fly if He want, He can do what ever He want

seem He want obedience

I save you but you have to believe Me

in Noah case believe mean work 10 thousand hour to build an ark
for Abraham believe mean walk 2000 mile
believe mean follow His instruction

for us follow His instruction is abide and you will bear fruit of love or cut and cast into fire

What further work did the thief on the cross do?
Besides, God doesn’t cast His children into the fire; God doesn’t do abortions. You seem to have a different God.

 

[Jackson123]

What further work did the thief on the cross do?
Besides, God doesn’t cast His children into the fire; God doesn’t do abortions. You seem to have a different God.

I think so my Jesus require me to obey, your Jesus teach you don’t need to abide for salvation than believe what ever you want

 

[crossnote]

I think so my Jesus require me to obey, your Jesus teach you don’t need to abide for salvation than believe what ever you want

Please show me where I ever said we don't need to abide or believe whatever you want?
Does your God also teach you to bear false witness (9th Commandment)?

 

[Jackson123]

Please show me where I ever said we don't need to abide or believe whatever you want?
Does your God also teach you to bear false witness (9th Commandment)?

So you do believe the need to abide for salvation or not

 

[crossnote]

So you do believe the need to abide for salvation or not

I believe we abide for fruit, not salvation. We are saved by Jesus' faithfulness, not our faithfulness.

 

[awelight]

-
Often a believer can become confused about ...... "Salvation" ..... and how its offered and how its applied.

So, let me simplify it by explaining it..... and then show you 2 key verses that will help you to clearly see a distinction between God offering The Cross of Christ to all, but not applying it to all.

Here is how God offers the Gift of Grace..... Romans 5:15.

God came here 2000 yrs ago, and died as Christ on the Cross for us ALL.
This is a one time and eternal sacrifice for ALL the sin of the world.
That is the OFFER of SALVATiON.....that is universally offered.
However, this sacrifice, this payment for all the sin of the world, is not Applied to anyone unless they BELIEVE.

See that?

FAITH, is what God requires of you, to give you His "Gift of Grace" that is "the Gift of Salvation" ...which is given to redeem you from your sin, and give you eternal life.

So, the OFFER of Christ on the Cross is to EVERYONE, but, this Sacrifice that Christ has accomplished... .this full payment for all sin... is not given to you, is not applied to you.......unless you come to Jesus and BELIEVE by FAITH and "faith is counted as righteousness", and you are "Justified BY faith".
Jesus said..>"all that come unto me, i give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish".

Reader...... If you will take Christ into your heart believing in Jesus as your Savior...., then God will take you as His OWN.
John 3:16......... is the OFFER of the Gift of Grace, the Gift of Salvation to the WORLD....but to have it applied to you.. is only when you BELIEVE in Jesus, receiving Him as your Savior.

Verse 1 : John 1:12.. "As many as RECEIVED CHRIST BY FAITH - = God GIVES them......the POWER TO BECOME a SON/Daughter of God".
See that?
That POWER is the Holy Spirit causing your spirit to become ALIVE and "one with God", ... born again., "In Christ".


Verse 2 : 1 John 2:2.... """ And Jesus is the Payment, is the Sacrifice, for the SIN of the WHOLE WORLD".

See that?
That is what Jesus is talking about, when from the Cross He said..>"it is FINISHED".

The misuse of verses, gets so tiresome. Such as you did with John 1:12 and leaving off verse 13, which is the direct explanation of "the how" of verse 12.

John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, and the world knew him not.

Not everyone in the world but Jesus Christ was alien to the world system.

John 1:11 He came unto his own, and they that were his own received him not.

Not every Jew but the vast majority of them. Because His teachings were alien to the adulterated religion of His day.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he the right to become children of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 1:13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Now let's slow down here a bit.

12. But as many as received him... "received" is Aorist Tense in the Greek - past tense. to them gave he the right to become children of God,... "gave" is Aorist tense in the Greek - past tense. even to them that believe on his name; "believe" is Present Tense in the Greek - and should be translated "are believing". God gave the right to become children of God, somewhere in the past and the ones who received Christ, somewhere in the past and are the same as the ones God gave the right and are believing on His name. Now the writer explains how, in verse 13.

13. John 1:13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

So, not because of their bloodlines. Not because of their own will. Not because of the will of another man. BUT God is the one who did it. Because He gave that one, the right to be a son of God.

There it is - but many will not except it. Just as many do not except Particular Redemption. They would have Jesus Christ die for those God already knows are going to be condemned. Or perhaps, someone will believe on Jesus Christ and surprise God with their choice.

Such foolishness. How would you ever reconcile the idea with Rev_13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. This teaches, every saved person, was written in from the foundation of the world because the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world. This is exactly what is taught in Eph 1:4 and what is meant by, Chosen in Him before the foundation of the world.

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

Galatians 6:3
For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.

For if a man think himself to be something,.... Of himself; to have anything of himself, to do anything of himself, and of himself to attain to life and salvation:
when he is nothing: of himself; not even as a creature, but owes his being and preservation, and all the mercies of life, to another, even to God; has no grace nor gifts of himself, but what he has received, and can do no good thing, not think a good thought, or perform a good action, of himself, and much less of himself procure eternal life and salvation:
Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

deceiveth himself—literally, "he mentally deceives himself." Compare Jas 1:26, "deceiveth his own heart."
Jamieson -Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary

 

[Jackson123]

I believe we abide for fruit, not salvation. We are saved by Jesus' faithfulness, not our faithfulness.

Than you have different Jesus
my Jesus say no fruit cast into fire or not save

 

[crossnote]

Than you have different Jesus
my Jesus say no fruit cast into fire or not save

Then tell me plain and clear, "How much fruit do you need to produce until you are saved"?

 

[Bluesproverb]

Mem did not say that. Perhaps you should read more slowly and not jump to conclusions you find so repulsive.

Mem said this in post 31:
If we think of how Abraham believed, in spite of the natural evidence, or lack thereof, his old body and Sarah's empty dust lined baby shelf. He believed what God said. Could he have 'received' it until that moment?

What could he have been referring to that would qualify otherwise in that description of Sarah?

Do tell.

 

[Magenta]

Mem said this in post 31:
If we think of how Abraham believed, in spite of the natural evidence, or lack thereof, his old body and Sarah's empty dust lined baby shelf. He believed what God said. Could he have 'received' it until that moment?

What could he have been referring to that would qualify otherwise in that description of Sarah?

Do tell.

Shelves. Have you heard of them? They hold people's possessions, some like a multi-tiered table or
cabinet (though not necessarily multi-tiered), or they can be suspended, or stacked. Here is a picture:

And, another

 

[Bluesproverb]

Shelves. Have you heard of them? They hold people's possessions, some like a multi-tiered table or
cabinet (though not necessarily multi-tiered), or they can be suspended, or stacked. Here is a picture:

And, another

Well, I can certainly understand why Mem decided to blaspheme Sarah through allusion.

He knew some would not understand the context of the discussion and actually think he was talking about a literal shelf.

Because 'dusty,old,baby' is always relative to.... literal shelves.

He knows how to bluff certain ones in his audience, I'll give him that.

God also knows what mem actually meant. Despite his apologists. No bluffing that off.

We're done.

 

[Magenta]

Well, I can certainly understand why Mem decided to blaspheme Sarah through allusion.

He knew some would not understand the context of the discussion and actually think he was talking about a literal shelf.

Because 'dusty,old,baby' is always relative to.... literal shelves.

He knows how to bluff certain ones in his audience, I'll give him that.

God also knows what mem actually meant. Despite his apologists. No bluffing that off.

We're done.

"Dusty old baby," said by you and only you.

Keep your outrage if you like, though you're better off without it.

 

[John146]

So you do believe the need to abide for salvation or not

Nope, that’s a Jewish doctrine concerning the kingdom of heaven not the body of Christ. Rightly divide the word of truth. You’re speaking of a works based salvation.