Who is a Jew?

[kaylagrl]

Being grafted in already doe's not mean replacement.

God has made an unconditional covenant that He will fulfill to the Jews. Grafted in has nothing to do with it.

 

[kaylagrl]

There is no need to be confused or troubled. The Bible is crystal clear about the following:

1. The Church began on the day of Pentecost (AD 30) and continues to this day.

2. The Church is the Body of Christ and consists of both redeemed Jews and Gentiles.

3. The Church is called "the Israel of God" since the "good olive tree" is believing Israel and the grafted branches are the Gentiles.

4. The Church will be completed in number by the time of the Resurrection/Rapture.

5. The eternal home of the Church is the New Jerusalem, a heavenly city.

6. After the Rapture God will resume his dealings with Israel (the twelve tribes).

7. God will establish redeemed and restored Israel (including Jerusalem on earth) in the land of "Greater Israel" (from the Nile to the Euphrates).

As you can see God has parallel plans for the Church and for redeemed and restored Israel. Replacement Theology is false, and we need to be clear about this. I could go into a multitude of Scriptures to support these conclusions, but the main thing is to understand what God has revealed to us.

The nation born in a day is Israel, in 1948, God will fulfill the covenant He made.

 

[phil36]

Here we go again. God made an unconditional covenant, it has not changed, it will not change. The church doesn't replace the Jews, the church gets all the blessings, the Jews get all the curses. No, God will fulfill His promises.

I'm not sure what it is your are arguing against.. There is no replacement but a continuation of the one people of God, both Jew and Gentile. (specifically addressing God's salvific promise).

So Jews and Gentiles are alike blessed in Christ (already) waiting the consummation of all things (not yet) at Christ's return at the end of this age.

Regarding the Mosaic covenant it is fulfilled in Christ.

The mosaic covenant unlike the Abrahamic Covenant were God himself bore the oath, therefore making it a sure thing and the New covenant wrought in Christ who is God Himself - the mosaic was conditioned on whether the people be faithful to the covenant.. It turns out they weren't therefore lost the benefits (as a whole there were some who were faithful quick example zechariah and Elizabeth). This included the land promise, that is them having a right to live in it. But God bore the oath with Abraham, and even this is fulfilled in Christ, when at his return we will Jew and Gentile inherit the new heavens and earth the new Jerusalem. Secondly, the mosaic was like a school master keeping the people until the time of fulfilment Christ and his mission.

From Eden to the perfect Eden as they say.

And we look forward both jew and gentile alike - to the time of the new heavens and earth and new Jerusalem, at the second return of Christ.. As promised to Abraham, foreshadowed with the conquering of the land where God dwelt with his people.

Now God dwells in his temple, his people through the Holy spirit.. And in the age to come he will dwell with his people without a temple in that new creation.. Just as he dwelt with Adam and eve.. But without the possibility for evil or sin... Come Lord Quickly.

Anyhow, hopefully you can see that there is no replacement going on, but an adding or as Paul says grafting in to the people of God.. The name replacement is really just a derogatory term and isn't even accurate.

Anyhow have enjoy the rest of your Sunday Kaylagrl


Ps.. Excuse all my mistakes as I am doing this on my phone

 

[kaylagrl]

I'm not sure what it is your are arguing against.. There is no replacement but a continuation of the one people of God, both Jew and Gentile. (specifically addressing God's salvific promise).
So Jews and Gentiles are alike blessed in Christ (already) waiting the consummation of all things (not yet) at Christ's return at the end of this age Regarding the Mosaic covenant it is fulfilled in Christ.

The mosaic covenant unlike the Abrahamic Covenant were God himself bore the oath, therefore making it a sure thing and the New covenant wrought in Christ who is God Himself - the mosaic was conditioned on whether the people be faithful to the covenant.. It turns out they weren't therefore lost the benefits (as a whole there were some who were faithful quick example zechariah and Elizabeth). This included the land promise, that is them having a right to live in it. But God bore the oath with Abraham, and even this is fulfilled in Christ, when at his return we will Jew and Gentile inherit the new heavens and earth the new Jerusalem. Secondly, the mosaic was like a school master keeping the people until the time of fulfilment Christ and his mission.

From Eden to the perfect Eden as they say.

And we look forward both jew and gentile alike - to the time of the new heavens and earth and new Jerusalem, at the second return of Christ.. As promised to Abraham, foreshadowed with the conquering of the land where God dwelt with his people.

Now God dwells in his temple, his people through the Holy spirit.. And in the age to come he will dwell with his people without a temple in that new creation.. Just as he dwelt with Adam and eve.. But without the possibility for evil or sin... Come Lord Quickly.

Anyhow, hopefully you can see that there is no replacement going on, but an adding or as Paul says grafting in to the people of God.. The name replacement is really just a derogatory term and isn't even accurate.

Anyhow have enjoy the rest of your Sunday Kaylagrl


Ps.. Excuse all my mistakes as I am doing this on my phone

I will post a small article and then we will see where we agree. Perhaps we do, you can let me know where we don't. I make mistakes and I don't have a phone to blame. lol Just me being a dummy.

 

[kaylagrl]

According to the Law of Moses, a Jew is one whose mother is a descendent of one of the twelve Tribes of Israel, and who is circumcised on the 8th day, and is a follower of the law. If anyone contends with this I will listen (*and likely argue, if you don't know me by now).

There are millions of people who claim to be Jews, and they claim this based on the traditions of their families, and, what I would call a tangential relationship with, the law of Moses. There are millions of "Jews" who are living in Israel based on a claim to Israel existing "for Jews."

But here is the sticking point I find in our day. By the definition of the Law of Moses, to be a Jew by blood, I need to be able to track a bloodline, on my mother's side, to Jacob. But at this date, it is unclear if anyone on earth who claims "Jew" can actually trace ancestry that far.

Now, as for problems from this discovery:

Religiously, this brings the question of who gets the blessings and responsibilities of carrying out the law? Since "the Jew" is known by Moses's Pentateuch, clearly he is seeking to sacrifice at the alter when he sins,but he needs a Levite to do this, meaning someone must be able to trace a bloodline to Levi.
Politically, this would, logically, also infer that at some point, God decided to change his criteria for who gets to claim "His" land in Israel.

Both of these bring more questions, and I find few answers.
More troubling, the Gospels and subsequent instructional letters, seem to infer that the Christian is now Israel, meaning that Jerusalem is actually the home of every Church on earth.
Does this mean we should seek to move to Israel and make it ours? To which tribe would we claim blood line?

"Biblically speaking, the supposed “lost tribes” were never truly lost. 2 Kings 17:18 states that Israel was deported to Assyria in 722 BC. Second Chronicles 15:9 records people from Ephraim, Manasseh, and Simeon settling in Judah long before the Assyrian invasion, however. Scripture also indicates that some of the people of the northern ten tribes remained in the land. Second Chronicles 35:18 mentions many Israelites celebrating the Passover with Judah around 90 years after Israel was deported to Assyria. When Judah was deported to Babylon in 586 BC, the Israelites who were living in Judah would have been included in the deportation. Regarding the deportees, Assyria and Babylon were in the same region. Deportees from Israel and Judah would likely have sought each other out and attempted to reunite culturally. Then, when King Cyrus gave the “Jews” the freedom to return to the land of Israel, the returnees would have been a mix of people from Israel and Judah. The title “Jew” resulted from the tribe of “Judah” being dominant.

But, since then, we have 2,500 years of history. There are Jews in most parts of the world today. Ashkenazi Jews (Jews who migrated to parts of Europe and intermarried to varying degrees with Europeans) are the dominant Jewish people group today. But this does not deny them true Israelite heritage. The Jews currently residing in Israel are not counterfeit Jews. Many/most of them are true biological descendants of the people from ancient Judah and Israel. There is no biblical, genealogical, historical, or genetic reason to deny that most modern Israelis are truly the descendants of the ancient Israelites.

Further, from God’s perspective, He knows precisely who are the inheritors of the promises He made to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and their descendants. Since God’s promises to Israel are especially focused on the land of Israel, it would make sense for God to be calling His people back to the land He promised them. The end times revolve, largely, around the people of Israel being in the land of Israel. God will call 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel to be His witnesses (Revelation 7:4). God does not need genealogical records to know the people He has chosen."

 

[Nehemiah6]

The nation born in a day is Israel, in 1948, God will fulfill the covenant He made.

Agreed. It was necessary for Israel to become a nation once again after about 2,000 years. However, the nation-state of Israel was totally political and in fact Zionism rejected the Messiah. At the same time God had His hand over this unbelieving nation as seen in the Six Day War, and also at other times, when all of Israel's enemies gathered to destroy it and failed. But now, the political leaders of Israel used COVID as a means to bring about another Holocaust on the Jews through the bogus vaccines.

So Israel is still in unbelief, even while many Jews are being saved at this time. But when Christ comes back to earth at His Second Coming He will supernaturally arrange (via angels) for all Jews worldwide to come to Israel to confront Him. And one-third of all Jewry will be saved at that time after passing through the "the fire" of "Jacob's Trouble". It is only after that that Christ will redeem and restore Israel as a nation on earth with the twelve tribes in possession of their allotted portions of land in "Greater Israel" and Jerusalem on earth as the center of worship.

 

[chess-player]

First of all the church is the church....Israel is Israel.
Jesus is the redeemer....restorer. he does not replace. So no the church is not Israel.
Israel is physical. Christians are spiritual.

God is the husband of Israel. Jesus is the bridegroom of the church.
Christianity came out of judisim. Jesus was and is a jew. If we are found in him what does that make us?

God judged Israel in A.D. 70. The only people God has today and will have forever is the body of Christ. Have you read Eph. 2:11-22? Let's start there.

 

[apwall21]

usually tell just by looking at them, but if not there are tests to tell by their dna which race they are from.

Except that there were plenty of people that were Canaanite and other races with similar and cross blood to Hittites, and to whom the "backsliders" of Israel mated.
So again, without giving me things that Satan can fake, how do I know that what claims to be Jew, matches what God tells us are Jews in the OT, if not also the NT?

Being grafted in already doe's not mean replacement.

But it does show another thing, only Christians, jew or gentile, are what God calls deserving. What God CAN do in the future, doesn't ever excuse the hard heart of a sinner, race is not relevant.
If this isn't clear, please explain how God killed those moaning Full Blooded Hebrews in the desert? How did God send multiple nations to conquer and kill Full Blooded Hebrews?
Replacement theology is about God's favor and guidance on earth, first. It doesn't really ever seem to need to speak of the dirt around Jerusalem, except where I think the OT prophets were seeing that city as the fount of God's Spirit. Then, yes, we are to seek, and we will be given to "Jerusalem, "the place where God resides.

 

[Moses_Young]

Except that there were plenty of people that were Canaanite and other races with similar and cross blood to Hittites, and to whom the "backsliders" of Israel mated.
So again, without giving me things that Satan can fake, how do I know that what claims to be Jew, matches what God tells us are Jews in the OT, if not also the NT?

I think the answer since 70AD is that it is taken on faith. Prior to that, I understand the temple genealogies were the deciding factor in verifying that one was a Jew or no.

 

[apwall21]

I think the answer since 70AD is that it is taken on faith. Prior to that, I understand the temple genealogies were the deciding factor in verifying that one was a Jew or no.

So, is it fair to say that God has allowed the full destruction of those who would serve under Moses, since none can verify a place in Israel to worship as Moses brought?
Faith, in the Pharisees that murdered Jesus? Faith, in the Pharisees that stoned Stephen? Faith, in the Saul of Tarsus?
Brother, that's a faith I don't want to imagine, I have too much of it already in myself.

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

Except that there were plenty of people that were Canaanite and other races with similar and cross blood to Hittites, and to whom the "backsliders" of Israel mated.
So again, without giving me things that Satan can fake, how do I know that what claims to be Jew, matches what God tells us are Jews in the OT, if not also the NT?

But it does show another thing, only Christians, jew or gentile, are what God calls deserving. What God CAN do in the future, doesn't ever excuse the hard heart of a sinner, race is not relevant.
If this isn't clear, please explain how God killed those moaning Full Blooded Hebrews in the desert? How did God send multiple nations to conquer and kill Full Blooded Hebrews?
Replacement theology is about God's favor and guidance on earth, first. It doesn't really ever seem to need to speak of the dirt around Jerusalem, except where I think the OT prophets were seeing that city as the fount of God's Spirit. Then, yes, we are to seek, and we will be given to "Jerusalem, "the place where God resides.

Yes, you are correct the jews did mix with several races in the Bible., and even some jews, meaning of the kingdom of Judah, were not even racially jews but were adopted in by various means (marriage, commendation for worthy deeds, conversion to God, etc.). My first post covers this. There are precepts in the Old Testament, even in the Law, where besides just patriarchal descent, one can be added to Judah (or Israel) by the King, and also they can be de-jewed by the King as well. This is even in the Old Testament, but in the light of the New Testament since Jesus is still alive, then Jesus is still the King.

Jesus gets to pick who is part of the spiritual Israel. Nevertheless, the very physical Israel, meaning the descendants of Judah are still around, their history is pretty well known though they got sifted through literally all the other races for their sins and then brought back again. Lol there is no full-blooded jew in our time that is still alive except for Jesus, a big problem for the unbelieving jews seeing as one has to be full-blooded jew to be a priest and this means that all their rabbinic counsels are illegitimate by their own laws, by Moses' books called the Law, and hilariously that also means Lord Jesus, whom they still reject, is the only person alive that can be their High Priest much less just be even a regular priest period. So it is that Lord Jesus is both the King and the Priest of the Jews and has both the divine right of the Kings (the Davidic Covenant) and the priesthood (the Torah Covenant), and thus the power to determine all jewry indeed, and the End of the Days he is the one that will have the final say.

 

[apwall21]

6. After the Rapture God will resume

How to get way off topic, really fast, I ask you what did Jesus mean in Matthew 13:30? Why is he so explicit that the Tares get harvested first?

 

[apwall21]

then brought back again.

The question is Whom is claiming, and Who brought them?
"all their rabbinic counsels are illegitimate by their own laws, "

You hit the nail on the head, none of them can claim this land, or even the title Jew.
And yet....

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

The question is Whom is claiming, and Who brought them?
"all their rabbinic counsels are illegitimate by their own laws, "

You hit the nail on the head, none of them can claim this land, or even the title Jew.
And yet....

Well Jesus brought them back and defended them in their impossible wars.

 

[apwall21]

Well Jesus brought them back and defended them in their impossible wars.

"Them" implies an actual blood of Jacob. None of these people can prove such a thing.

I can argue for Providence in all things, but that STILL doesn't mean that these people are Israel.
For instance, isn't it also true that God made Jerusalem territory to the Muslim? Was God's allowance in that matter the bringing of Jews back to Jerusalem? Maybe in a grand plan, but the people who were there, living in Israel, by current arguments, didn't match Jew. Yet they lived in Israel, and could claim God sent them there, as much as anyone, if I blindly accept Providence (which is not a terrible thing).

 

[PennEd]

Even though I have interest in Christianity, I belong to a reform Jewish Synagogue that is quite inclusive. At this point, we would define anybody that identifies as Jewish as Jewish.

I pray your “interest” would transform into belief, and then a new life in Christ.

Jesus is VERY exclusive. NO ONE comes to the Father except through Him.

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

"Them" implies an actual blood of Jacob. None of these people can prove such a thing.

I can argue for Providence in all things, but that STILL doesn't mean that these people are Israel.
For instance, isn't it also true that God made Jerusalem territory to the Muslim? Was God's allowance in that matter the bringing of Jews back to Jerusalem? Maybe in a grand plan, but the people who were there, living in Israel, by current arguments, didn't match Jew. Yet they lived in Israel, and could claim God sent them there, as much as anyone, if I blindly accept Providence (which is not a terrible thing).

A lot of them can actually prove they have at least some blood of Judah in them even without relying on the DNA tests and just going by family and public records. The jews history through the AD, particularly the jews that got sifted through Europe are pretty very well recorded and documented both by themselves and by the races that they got sifted through.

 

[kaylagrl]

Replacement theology is about God's favor and guidance on earth, first. It doesn't really ever seem to need to speak of the dirt around Jerusalem, except where I think the OT prophets were seeing that city as the fount of God's Spirit. Then, yes, we are to seek, and we will be given to "Jerusalem, "the place where God resides.

Replacement Theology is giving the church the place God has for the Jews.

 

[apwall21]

Replacement Theology is giving the church the place God has for the Jews.

we gonna argue the physical flesh is our home now?

 

[kaylagrl]

we gonna argue the physical flesh is our home now?

God has special promises He made through covenant that He will fulfill. Jews are now blinded, for a time, just as Romans says.