Did Jesus drink alcohol?
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when he was accused of drinking with winebibbers well
He was showing them how to drink it properly. You only meant to have like a tiny sip
Though drinking wine is like the emporors wearing no clothes for a lot of people. If grapes dont have alcohol in it, people seem to turn up their noses at it. When it actually tastes better than the rotting stuff.
He was showing them how to drink it properly. You only meant to have like a tiny sip
Though drinking wine is like the emporors wearing no clothes for a lot of people. If grapes dont have alcohol in it, people seem to turn up their noses at it. When it actually tastes better than the rotting stuff.
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I think we need to stop trying to convince ourselves God does not approve his work.
https://reformedhealth.net/14-reasons-god-approves-wine-in-the-bible/
#1, Communion.
https://www.builders-of-faith.org/bible-topics/the-biblical-teaching-on-wine-and-alcohol
VI. Summary
1. The assumption is usually made by proponents of the moderate use of alcoholic beverages that the ancient peoples did not know how to preserve the juice of the grape in an unfermented state, and that therefore, virtually every instance of wine mentioned in the Bible must be to fermented wine.This assumption is totally false as the ancient historical records are abundantly clear that there were several major methods of preserving grape juice in its natural, unfermented state.
2. Most modern Christians assume that the very words translated as "wine"or "strong drink" in the Bible must have the same meaning they have to modern users of the English language. Such an assumption ignores the obvious fact that many words in nearly all languages change in usage meaning through the centuries. Even in the English language, the word "wine" originally referred to any drink from the vine, whether fermented or unfermented.
3. The most common words by far used in Scripture to refer to wine are"yayin" (Hebrew Old Testament) and "oinos" (Greek New Testament). Both secular sources and the Bible itself (in context) make it very clear that they were each generic words used to describe the juice of the grape in both its fermented and unfermented state. The immediate context, if sufficiently clear (and it often is not), is the determining factor in interpreting these words as referring to fermented or unfermented wine.
4. There are definitely a sufficient number of times in Scripture in which the immediate context does make clear which form of wine is meant that a consistent pattern exists. Never in Scripture when the context makes it clear that fermented wine is the subject does that Scripture speak approvingly or commendingly of that wine, with the exception of Proverbs31:6-7, which was for medicinal purposes to the dying who were in great pain (and remember the lack of modern pain medications). And when the context is clearly referring to unfermented wine, the Scripture always speaks of it in an approving manner; in fact, unfermented wine was used as a symbol of God's blessing to His people in the Old Testament. This pattern establishes the Bible teaching on wine, and by extension, its teaching on all alcoholic beverages. And that teaching is that fermented wine is prohibited to those who believe in the true God.
5. Most modern Christians argue that the Bible only condemns the abuse, not the use, of alcoholic drinks. The Bible is not a systematic theology textbook; it usually does not attempt to prove its teachings. But the careful student will note that in a few key places, the Scriptures clearly teach that the very nature of alcoholic beverages is that which brings spiritual apostasy and otherwise affects the mind (and body too) of whomever drink sit. In other words, it is not excessive drinking only that the Bible condemns, but the beverage itself and its consumption in any amount.
6. Many modern conservative Christians maintain total abstinence from intoxicating beverages on the basis that we know from medical science the dangers and subtle negative effects on our health or mental alertness of even the moderate use of alcohol. Their view is that God excused the ignorance of His people in Biblical times and allowed them to drink alcoholic beverages then. While such a position comes to the right conclusion about the present behavior in this area expected from a Christian today, it is based on a superficial study of the Bible. Many times in the Old Testament, God spoke not the language of divine concession but of divine commending and commanding of wine as a positive blessing from Him designed to be enjoyed. The accurate interpretation comes when one realizes that some of the same words translated "wine" or "strong drink" there were generic words that could also be used to describe grape juice in its natural, unfermented state. Although even most Bible scholars are in error on this matter, a deeper study of the lexical evidence reveals this to be an obvious fact.
(It always amazes sincere Christians that Bible scholars could be in error, but the truth is that we are all human, and there is a human tendency in all of us that gives us a bias in a given area. The problem is that many, even among theologians, do not work to identify their built-in assumptions and/or do not analyze them in the light of Scripture and other sources to see if they are really valid. And no matter who you are, if you begin your theological study from one or more false assumptions, all the other evidence in the world will not correct your final conclusion of the matter; you are bound to end up with the wrong answer. So it really isn't that difficult to understand how even brilliant minds are sometimes wrong about theological matters.)
7. Since most Christians do not study the Old Testament today--a shame because it is so rich in revealing the character of man and God--they superficially look at New Testament passages which seem to justify their moderate drinking habit. But a careful examination of the statements of Jesus and His apostles reveals that none of them sanction even the moderate use of alcoholic beverages.
8. Although it is abundantly clear that the Bible condemns the use of alcohol in any amounts, it is only that clear to those who dig deeply for its truths. However, when all that is said and done, how in God's name(literal use intended) can modern Christians justify the touching of such beverages? Romans 12:1-2, and many other New Testament passages, make it clear that believers are in a life-and-death struggle for our eternal destiny.And that struggle is centered in the mind. Medical science is unmistakable in its acknowledgment that the first place in the brain affected by even small amounts of alcohol is the frontal lobe area. And that is known to be the center of judgment and the will in human beings. It should go without saying that a Christian should never touch any substance that even in small amounts begins to break down the moral inhibitions even though it may not be obvious to the external observer! Let God be every man's judge, but it is difficult not to conclude that even many professed Christians are simply rationalizing what they want to do regardless of the facts or the consequences to their spiritual, or physical, natures. May God have mercy on their souls!
https://reformedhealth.net/14-reasons-god-approves-wine-in-the-bible/
#1, Communion.
https://www.builders-of-faith.org/bible-topics/the-biblical-teaching-on-wine-and-alcohol
VI. Summary
1. The assumption is usually made by proponents of the moderate use of alcoholic beverages that the ancient peoples did not know how to preserve the juice of the grape in an unfermented state, and that therefore, virtually every instance of wine mentioned in the Bible must be to fermented wine.This assumption is totally false as the ancient historical records are abundantly clear that there were several major methods of preserving grape juice in its natural, unfermented state.
2. Most modern Christians assume that the very words translated as "wine"or "strong drink" in the Bible must have the same meaning they have to modern users of the English language. Such an assumption ignores the obvious fact that many words in nearly all languages change in usage meaning through the centuries. Even in the English language, the word "wine" originally referred to any drink from the vine, whether fermented or unfermented.
3. The most common words by far used in Scripture to refer to wine are"yayin" (Hebrew Old Testament) and "oinos" (Greek New Testament). Both secular sources and the Bible itself (in context) make it very clear that they were each generic words used to describe the juice of the grape in both its fermented and unfermented state. The immediate context, if sufficiently clear (and it often is not), is the determining factor in interpreting these words as referring to fermented or unfermented wine.
4. There are definitely a sufficient number of times in Scripture in which the immediate context does make clear which form of wine is meant that a consistent pattern exists. Never in Scripture when the context makes it clear that fermented wine is the subject does that Scripture speak approvingly or commendingly of that wine, with the exception of Proverbs31:6-7, which was for medicinal purposes to the dying who were in great pain (and remember the lack of modern pain medications). And when the context is clearly referring to unfermented wine, the Scripture always speaks of it in an approving manner; in fact, unfermented wine was used as a symbol of God's blessing to His people in the Old Testament. This pattern establishes the Bible teaching on wine, and by extension, its teaching on all alcoholic beverages. And that teaching is that fermented wine is prohibited to those who believe in the true God.
5. Most modern Christians argue that the Bible only condemns the abuse, not the use, of alcoholic drinks. The Bible is not a systematic theology textbook; it usually does not attempt to prove its teachings. But the careful student will note that in a few key places, the Scriptures clearly teach that the very nature of alcoholic beverages is that which brings spiritual apostasy and otherwise affects the mind (and body too) of whomever drink sit. In other words, it is not excessive drinking only that the Bible condemns, but the beverage itself and its consumption in any amount.
6. Many modern conservative Christians maintain total abstinence from intoxicating beverages on the basis that we know from medical science the dangers and subtle negative effects on our health or mental alertness of even the moderate use of alcohol. Their view is that God excused the ignorance of His people in Biblical times and allowed them to drink alcoholic beverages then. While such a position comes to the right conclusion about the present behavior in this area expected from a Christian today, it is based on a superficial study of the Bible. Many times in the Old Testament, God spoke not the language of divine concession but of divine commending and commanding of wine as a positive blessing from Him designed to be enjoyed. The accurate interpretation comes when one realizes that some of the same words translated "wine" or "strong drink" there were generic words that could also be used to describe grape juice in its natural, unfermented state. Although even most Bible scholars are in error on this matter, a deeper study of the lexical evidence reveals this to be an obvious fact.
(It always amazes sincere Christians that Bible scholars could be in error, but the truth is that we are all human, and there is a human tendency in all of us that gives us a bias in a given area. The problem is that many, even among theologians, do not work to identify their built-in assumptions and/or do not analyze them in the light of Scripture and other sources to see if they are really valid. And no matter who you are, if you begin your theological study from one or more false assumptions, all the other evidence in the world will not correct your final conclusion of the matter; you are bound to end up with the wrong answer. So it really isn't that difficult to understand how even brilliant minds are sometimes wrong about theological matters.)
7. Since most Christians do not study the Old Testament today--a shame because it is so rich in revealing the character of man and God--they superficially look at New Testament passages which seem to justify their moderate drinking habit. But a careful examination of the statements of Jesus and His apostles reveals that none of them sanction even the moderate use of alcoholic beverages.
8. Although it is abundantly clear that the Bible condemns the use of alcohol in any amounts, it is only that clear to those who dig deeply for its truths. However, when all that is said and done, how in God's name(literal use intended) can modern Christians justify the touching of such beverages? Romans 12:1-2, and many other New Testament passages, make it clear that believers are in a life-and-death struggle for our eternal destiny.And that struggle is centered in the mind. Medical science is unmistakable in its acknowledgment that the first place in the brain affected by even small amounts of alcohol is the frontal lobe area. And that is known to be the center of judgment and the will in human beings. It should go without saying that a Christian should never touch any substance that even in small amounts begins to break down the moral inhibitions even though it may not be obvious to the external observer! Let God be every man's judge, but it is difficult not to conclude that even many professed Christians are simply rationalizing what they want to do regardless of the facts or the consequences to their spiritual, or physical, natures. May God have mercy on their souls!
hmm but isn't their criteria for whether it is wine vs. grape juice 'if it's being approved or not actively condemned, it must be grape juice' ?
kind of like how if we find a verse mentioning the law in a good light, then it is defined as including the 10 commandments
but if we find a verse mentioning the law that says Christians aren't under it, it must be defined as not including the 10 commandments?
4. There are definitely a sufficient number of times in Scripture in which the immediate context does make clear which form of wine is meant that a consistent pattern exists. Never in Scripture when the context makes it clear that fermented wine is the subject does that Scripture speak approvingly or commendingly of that wine, with the exception of Proverbs31:6-7, which was for medicinal purposes to the dying who were in great pain (and remember the lack of modern pain medications). And when the context is clearly referring to unfermented wine, the Scripture always speaks of it in an approving manner; in fact, unfermented wine was used as a symbol of God's blessing to His people in the Old Testament. This pattern establishes the Bible teaching on wine, and by extension, its teaching on all alcoholic beverages. And that teaching is that fermented wine is prohibited to those who believe in the true God.
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yes this part.
what is the criteria for 'context is clearly referring to unfermented wine' ?
isn't it 'when it speaks of it in an approving manner' ?
for example Psalm 104:15 -- "wine that gladdens men's hearts"
is this fermented or unfermented and how can we tell?
don't we decide it's grape juice on the basis that it's being approved?
what is the criteria for 'context is clearly referring to unfermented wine' ?
isn't it 'when it speaks of it in an approving manner' ?
for example Psalm 104:15 -- "wine that gladdens men's hearts"
is this fermented or unfermented and how can we tell?
don't we decide it's grape juice on the basis that it's being approved?
How does grape juice "gladden men's hearts"?
And wine that makes glad the heart of man,
Oil to make his face shine
(Psalm 104:15)
clearly from context this is freshly-squeezed, pasteurized juice.i mean, it's approved -- so it must be referring to basic daily needs.
like moisturizing facials at the spa
perhaps it's referring to finding a good sale, or a coupon
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Nothing like a glass of bubbly while sitting in the hot tub
Or so I've been told...
Or so I've been told...
((so go the rumors))
then it's just 'people soup'
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I agree with Magenta's answer.
I offered the article we're sharing about to give weight to both sides of the scale, fermented vs. unferminted.
The scriptures themselves identify both. However, regardless of the personal pov of the article author, alcoholic wine had its place in Jesus' day. And in the OT.
There wine is sometimes the metaphor for Israel. And in certain prophecies as precursors to Messiah.
Speaking of the old testament. Passover Seder wine is always fermented grape juice or, wine.
I offered the article we're sharing about to give weight to both sides of the scale, fermented vs. unferminted.
The scriptures themselves identify both. However, regardless of the personal pov of the article author, alcoholic wine had its place in Jesus' day. And in the OT.
There wine is sometimes the metaphor for Israel. And in certain prophecies as precursors to Messiah.
Speaking of the old testament. Passover Seder wine is always fermented grape juice or, wine.
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Nothing like a glass of bubbly while sitting in the hot tub
Or so I've been told...
Or so I've been told...
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