what does it mean to be a born again christian ?

Runningman · Jul 11, 2022

Wow no need to insult my intelligence. You can talk civilly to people without saying they are speaking lies and illogical. Don’t let this place change you. I know there are many rude people here, but don’t become like them.

Christians with crass attitudes are a big turnoff for believers and unbelievers. Someone said, “I’d be a Christian if it weren’t for the Christians.”

Let me get this straight. You think being born again of “water and Spirit” are not linked, but rather two separate births? If that’s what you think then I see your error. You’ve created a third birth by that logic; a natural birth, another natural birth, and a Spirit birth.

Jesus said you must be born “again” of water and Spirit. Water and Spirit go together.

So how are you born again, a second time, of water and Spirit?

Pilgrimshope · Jul 11, 2022

oyster67 said:

“Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony. He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true. For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life:

and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:31-36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he that believeth the son

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63, 68-69‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he that won’t accept his word

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬

ultimately God has fulfilled this prophecy

“I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he’s done that this way

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He has set eternal life in his kingdom before us and has set eternal damnation before us and has said “ hear the truth and choose life “

oyster67 · Jul 11, 2022

Amanuensis said:

All believers are entitled to and should ardently expect and earnestly seek the promise of the Father, the baptism in the Holy Spirit and fire, according to the command of our Lord Jesus Christ. This was the normal experience of all in the early Christian church. With it come the enduement of power for life and service, the bestowment of the gifts and their uses in the work of the ministry (Luke 24:49; Acts 1:4,8; 1 Corinthians 12:1–31). This experience is distinct from and subsequent to the experience of the new birth (Acts 8:12–17; 10:44–46; 11:14–16; 15:7–9). With the baptism in the Holy Spirit come such experiences as an overflowing fullness of the Spirit (John 7:37–39; Acts 4:8), a deepened reverence for God (Acts 2:43; Hebrews 12:28), an intensified consecration to God and dedication to His work (Acts 2:42), and a more active love for Christ, for His Word, and for the lost (Mark 16:20).

I am not at all opposed to the possibility of receiving gifts. I was just asserting that man receives the indwelling of the Spirit at the time of initial salvation.

oyster67 · Jul 11, 2022

Runningman said:

I did not mean to bruise you or insinuate that you were a liar.

I was just trying to point out your error.

I do love you and accept you as a brother. I will try to be more gentle with my words, dear brother.

There are only two births (as I have previously stated.)

1.) From the water or our mother's womb (flesh.)
2.) Of the Spirit when we receive salvation (spiritual.)

Everlasting-Grace · Jul 11, 2022

oyster67 said:

not sure why some make it so complicated

born again = 2 births.

water and spirit = 2 births

flesh is flesh (1 birth water) spirit is spirit (2nd birth spirit)

LoveBrokeThru · Jul 11, 2022

siddhikoli said:

Water baptism can't cause you to be born again.
And that explains why thousands of people who are water baptized, went to Hell today, yesterday, and tomorrow.

Jesus said "you must be born again"..........if you want to go to Heaven, as that is the reason you go.
And there is no other reason.

How do you know if you are born again?
Well, one way is to not try to teach or believe that if you are water baptized, you are saved.
As that proves you are not, as you can't be saved, if you dont understand how to be born again.., as WATER is not the way to God.
Here is the way.... John 14:6

So, start there.

Pilgrimshope · Jul 11, 2022

oyster67 said:

“1.) From the water or our mother's womb (flesh.)”

if you are looking at the gospel there are two stages to one birth baptism in water. For remission of sins ( that’s where the law over flesh ends, and the gospel begins biblically speaking I mean
Because baptism is where our sins are remitted and the law is about imputing our sins.

so you have the beginning of the gospel
just consider this is all I’m asking

“For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:13‬ ‭

Not until Jesus , but until John who instituted baptism in water for remission of sins preceding the people hearing the New Testament word of Christ. So you have this seperation of the Old Testament law and New Testament gospel

“The law and the prophets were until John:

since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Donkeys look at this apart from the flesh and consider water baptism biblically and where it fits in the doctrine we see the prophets begin to be fulfilled with John the baptists ministry of repentance and remission of sins.

“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, Which shall prepare thy way before thee.

The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, Make his paths straight. ( this is about John )

John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. ( accepting that Gods forgiveness has come forth remission of sins is being offered the time has come they responded )

And there went out unto him all the land of Judæa, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:1-5‬ ‭KJV‬

baptism in water is about believing in Jesus Christ they all knew that John was a prophet and he was saying “ repent and be baptized confessing your sins because the Christ is about to arrive with salvation “

his ministry is about preparing the heart to receive the gospel in repentance because John requires us to acknowledge our sins before God and repent baptism is what we do when we come to that state of mind it’s what the doctrine says to do for a believer of this

“for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we believe that’s true Jesus does for my sins so they can be remitted. My response to this belief is to acknolwedge all My sins to the lord and repent in my mind and heart knowing I’ve been doing some things wrong I’m a sinner but I don’t want to keep doing those things anymore I do t want to keep making excuses I want to learn from my savior and lord and follow him because I do really believe

baptism is for Jesus disciples it’s an act of faith because we believe he died for our sins my point in rambling is this

John is part of the gospel repentance and remission Of sins is the gospel and he baptized in water and preached that Christ would baptize with the spirit

After they had all believed John was a prophet and got baptized Jesus got baptized in water also and received the Holy Ghost.

but as soon as Johns ministry was ending after he’s baptized the whole region all the religious folks who came to repentance and got baptized for remission of sins

Jesus started teaching them “ you have to be born of both water , and spirit to enter the kingdom . “

John preached this when the gospel starts

“John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. and preached, saying, There cometh one mightier than I after me, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose. I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:4, 7-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and as soon as Jesus took over the preaching from John he said this to all those who had been believing in Johns ministry

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so you have John and Jesus both witnessing about baptism of water and spirit and John saying “ he will baptize you with the Holy Ghost “ that is a reference to this particular day when the hilt spirit was poured out on mankind

“and, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judæa, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:4-5, 8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

pentocost fulfilled the phrase “ he will baptize with the Holy Ghost “ baptism hasn’t changed water and spirit still happened throughout the New Testament

This is when the gentiles received the baptism of the spirit but note the first command of Peter is baptism on water

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.

Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized,

which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:44-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

water and spirit are two witnesses of remission of sins because we believe the gospel like in the law everything is established by two or three witnesses

“And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I believe so my response is to repent and get baptized in water for remission of sins in Jesus name

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We still are meant to get baptized in water for remission of sins , because we believe the gospel and receive the holy ghost they witness together our sins are remitted in Christs death

biblically we’re baptized in water , and receive the spirit as a gift believing the gospel is true the. We act on that belief and get baptized or believe get baptized and then receive the spirit there’s always water baptism and the Holy Ghost comes to believers of Jesus and the gospel as a gift

Need to believe Jesus does for us believe the gospel and receive the spirit and then we need to act in faith and get baptized coming to acknowledge our sins he died for and repent

Runningman · Jul 11, 2022

oyster67 said:

So the gospel is be born from a woman and believe in Jesus? Sorry, but that isn’t repeated anywhere in the Bible, but water baptism and faith is mentioned a lot. I’m going to bet everything on water and Spirit being water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism.

The new birth has two components: water and Spirit.

1 John 5:8
8And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

oyster67 · Jul 12, 2022

Runningman said:

The gospel concerns the second birth. (obviously one must exist before one can receive the gift of salvation.)

oyster67 · Jul 12, 2022

Runningman said:

John 19:34

“But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.”

siddhikoli · Jul 13, 2022

ResidentAlien said:

Acts 2:17
King James Version

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Nehemiah6 · Jul 13, 2022

Runningman said:

Water is a metaphor for the Word of God (the Gospel). So it is through the Gospel (the "seed" of the New Birth according to 1 Peter 1:23-25) and the convicting and convincing of the Holy Spirit, that sinners believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Then they receive the GIFT of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38), and it is the Holy Spirit who produces the supernatural New Birth. He regenerates people and makes them children of God (John 1:12,13; Titus 3:4-7). The water of baptism comes after being baptized with the Holy Ghost. See Acts chapters 2 & 10.

Nehemiah6 · Jul 13, 2022

siddhikoli said:

This prophecy was fulfilled on the day of Pentecost, fifty days after the Passover in AD 30. And also thereafter. This Passover was the day on which Christ died as the Passover Lamb. The Holy Spirit was given as a gift to all who repented and believed on Christ and He continues to be given to all who obey the Gospel.

Runningman · Jul 13, 2022

Nehemiah6 said:

Water is never used as a metaphor for the gospel in the Bible. I can prove it, too, so there’s no clear reason to accept your interpretation as valid. Water is always associated with cleansing, purification, or water baptism in the Bible.

Runningman · Jul 13, 2022

oyster67 said:

To literally be born again of “water and Spirit” it would require physically dying then being reincarnated into a new body and birthed a second time. That’s the only way to be born again of water if you insist water is a reference to live birth.

So I’m pretty sure Jesus was not teaching reincarnation. I’m going to have to stick with water and Spirit being water baptism and the Holy Spirit.

Nehemiah6 · Jul 13, 2022

Runningman said:

No wonder you are confused. Can ordinary water wash away inner filth and idolatry? Does God personally use H2O to cleanse sinners? Does a new heart and a new spirit mean regeneration by the power of God? Does the gift of the Holy Spirit provide a supernatural New Birth? Is this all connected?

Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. (Ezekiel 36:25-27)

Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That He might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the Word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. (Eph 5:25-27)

ResidentAlien · Jul 13, 2022

The logical conclusion to the idea that baptism isn't a necessary component of the new birth is baptism isn't that big of a deal. However, the New Testament teaches it is a big deal. Why would the NT teach that something is a big deal if it's not that important?

Magenta · Jul 13, 2022

Pilgrimshope said:

Eh?

Runningman · Jul 13, 2022

Nehemiah6 said:

That’s literal water because the Bible says literal water is used for water baptism again… and again… and again. I kinda see how you think water is symbolic of the gospel, but you’re wrong about that. According to the gospel, the word, we are water baptized. Jesus said so in the Great Commission.

Mark 16:1,16
15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

The gospel is believing and being baptized to be saved. I hope that clears it up.

Runningman · Jul 13, 2022

ResidentAlien said:

Well, the devil goes to church and has done a good job making people see water baptism as unimportant. Now we have denominations everywhere saying water baptism is an “outward sign of an inward grace” a sentence that exists nowhere in the Bible.

People also think water baptism is a work, but that comes from not understanding the difference between works of the law and good works.

When these converts about water baptism come up and people oppose it intensely they probably think they are defending the truth, but I finely believe Jesus would be appalled because all of the disciples of Jesus were water baptized and Jesus commanded water baptism.

what does it mean to be a born again christian ?

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