Is Baptism necessary for Salvation?

[Wansvic]

So you consider the truth rude? Well it is a wake up call when presented without frills and chills, but there you have it.

If you think I am rude, I wonder what Paul, whom you seem to like to quote, would have to say? I do recall some of what he said to those who twisted the gospel and it was way past rude.

Snide remarks are unnecessary and rude.
"These simple indicators of the meaning in scripture appear to have left you dazzled by the light."

 

[Polar]

Snide remarks are unnecessary and rude.
"These simple indicators of the meaning in scripture appear to have left you dazzled by the light."

Nothing wrong there at all. Just the truth again.

So, which water regeneration group do you call home? Care to tell us?

 

[Wansvic]

So now you are going with ad hominin ? Figures.

Your claim "This type of cultish expression, seeks to devalue Christ's complete work on the cross and create some kind of contribution of works, ie water baptism in this case, thereby creating mankind as contributing to his/her own salvation which is heretical to say the least."

Your claim of heresy is debunked by scripture:
"And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls." Acts 2:40-41

 

[Wansvic]

Nothing wrong there at all. Just the truth again.

So, which water regeneration group do you call home? Care to tell us?

Your deflection reminds me of someone. Any relation to SopieT?

 

[Wansvic]

What wansvic and a few others here seem to be promoting is also called water or baptismal regeneration.

The belief that baptism is necessary for salvation is also known as "baptismal regeneration." Baptism is an important step of obedience for a Christian, but water is not the source of forgiveness for sins.

Christians should be water baptized by immersion. Baptism illustrates a believer’s identification with Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection.
“Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.” The action of being immersed in the water illustrates dying and being buried with Christ. The action of coming out of the water pictures Christ’s resurrection. Romans 6:3-4

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." (Ephesians 2:8,9)

Please explain the meaning of the following verses since you believe they mean something other than what they say:

"And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." Acts 22:16

"... be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,... Acts 2:38

 

[Wansvic]

I could not have been any plainer short of a get behind me....fill in the blanks.

Don't play games.

Interesting you refuse to answer such a simple question.

 

[Polar]

Please explain the meaning of the following verses since you believe they mean something other than what they say:

"And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." Acts 22:16

"... be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,... Acts 2:38

Please explain why you say that if anyone has been baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, they must be re-baptized in the name of Jesus only?

Why tarriest thou wansvic? Just spill all the beans instead of pretending you are not part of one of those Jesus only groups that put water baptizing before anything else?

aka Oneness Pentacostal

 

[Wansvic]

Maybe you are not familiar with the truth? The truth has been stated so simply a child can understand and for that matter, I came to Christ as a child. Maybe I have a head start on you

I do know I am not confused nor am I going to play your game

There is a big difference between scripture and opinion. I share scripture you can't give an answer and call it a game. So sad.

 

[Wansvic]

Please explain why you say that if anyone has been baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, they must be re-baptized in the name of Jesus only?

Why tarriest thou wansvic? Just spill all the beans instead of pretending you are not part of one of those Jesus only groups that put water baptizing before anything else?

aka Oneness Pentacostal

Interesting, again you deflect instead of answering a very simple question. The answer is both scriptures clearly state that an individual's sins are remitted/washed away upon obedience to God's command to be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. This only made possible by Jesus' sacrifice.

"And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." Acts 22:16
"... be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,... Acts 2:38

 

[Polar]

There is a big difference between scripture and opinion. I share scripture you can't give an answer and call it a game. So sad.

You have not denied what group you appear to belong to.

Oneness Pentecostal is a whole other game and how about needing to be re-baptized?

On this earth, you are free to believe what you want. You share an opinion and you have not responded to my posts. Instead you are trying very hard to make it seem I do not respond to scripture.

Since neither the Oneness folk or the water saves folk (often combined) have the last say in salvation, I simply rejoice in my salvation and I understand you and your group have absolutely no reflection on anyone in this forum who actually does have a handle on the truth.

You have not and cannot change the fact that only Jesus shed blood on the cross is acceptable to God as a requirement for the fulfillment of the OT laws and ordinances. Your water is not acceptable to God and does not wash you clean in any way, shape or form.
You do not handle the Bible as a teacher of truth, but rather divert from the truth and that is on you.

You have basically hijacked this thread with your false doctrine. Done with it.

 

[Wansvic]

You have not denied what group you appear to belong to.

Oneness Pentecostal is a whole other game and how about needing to be re-baptized?

On this earth, you are free to believe what you want. You share an opinion and you have not responded to my posts. Instead you are trying very hard to make it seem I do not respond to scripture.

Since neither the Oneness folk or the water saves folk (often combined) have the last say in salvation, I simply rejoice in my salvation and I understand you and your group have absolutely no reflection on anyone in this forum who actually does have a handle on the truth.

You have not and cannot change the fact that only Jesus shed blood on the cross is acceptable to God as a requirement for the fulfillment of the OT laws and ordinances. Your water is not acceptable to God and does not wash you clean in any way, shape or form.
You do not handle the Bible as a teacher of truth, but rather divert from the truth and that is on you.

You have basically hijacked this thread with your false doctrine. Done with it.

Interesting. But still no answer regarding my responses to your posts 126 and 147. As to what scripture says occurs in water baptism:
"And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." Acts 22:16
"... be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,... Acts 2:38

And Peter's words concerning one's willingness to believe and act upon the God-given command to be baptized in water.
"And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls." Acts 2:40-41

 

[Wansvic]

...

You have basically hijacked this thread with your false doctrine. Done with it.

The thread is entitled "Is Baptism necessary for Salvation?"

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Please elaborate.❤️ You may then help to clear up the confusion you refer to.

I look forward to it as well.

Instead of saying baptized into christ in Rom 6, It should be translated placed into Christ

Instead of saying baptized into his death It would say placed in union with his death

Instead of saying baptized into Moses. It would say placed into union with moses

Baptizo is a verb, When they transliterated it and made up a new word (baptize) they allowed all this stuff, Sadly, baptizm has become to the church what circumcision was to the jew..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I've presented the scriptures. It is not my job to attempt to make you accept the truth as stated in them. People are tasked with planting and watering seeds (God's word) and God gives the increase/revelation to those who hunger and thirst for the truth.

Thank you. You just proved me right, Because you prove you are unable to show where the word baptize is required in te passages I spoke of. Your no better than the person I originally asked the question to.

Once again, I bud you good day sir. i will pray for you

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I could not have been any plainer short of a get behind me....fill in the blanks.

Don't play games.

They want you to answer their questions (even though many have answered them many times yet they refuse to acknowledge it

But they refuse to answer yours.. Hence they are also hypocrits

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

You don't set the narrative for God's word!

Your right I don’t

God did, He wrote those passages, All i did was ask wher the word baptize was in those passages. Since EVERY one of those passages was about new birth or eternal life.

It is difficult to have a quality debate with someone who don't understand english...what language can we put God's word into that would help you?

I understand english quite well]
In john 3, when Jesus told nicodemus HOW to be born again, He said whoever believes in him is given new (eternal life)

In john 4. Jesus said ask, and he will give you living water flowing to new birth eternal kife

In john 5 he says whoever hears his words and believes in him will have this new birth called eternal life

In john 6, he said again, whoever takes in (eats) the words the spirit gave, and believes in him, will again never die, and recieve this new birth called eternal life

There is is ALL IN ENGLISH, and NOT ONE TIME IS THE WORD BAPTIZE MENTIONED

WOW...that's a lot of un-common sense.
Does Rev 15; 23 say we must repent of our sins? NO
Does that mean we don't have to? No. But, applying your non sensical comment it would mean...yes. Go tell.
.

Rev 15 only has 8 verses. I would recommend instead of being an arrogant person like you are and talking like a bully. You sit and learn english yourself. Then learn how to read the word.

So what is your dubious and nonintellectual point?
Here is God's word;

Baptism is required.

Show me in the passages where Jesus told us HOW to be born again

Otherwise. Your just another self righteous person who attacks people because they can’t back up their own words.

People who can answer questions, and are confident do not need to attack people by mocking them as you have just done, and then they also do not make themself look foolish and arrogant

If you want to continue doing that though, do not let me stand in your way, feel free

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

So now you are going with ad hominin ? Figures.

Welcome to the legalist philosophy, I can;t fight them with truth so attack, ad hominem and show a lot of strawman arguments to try to deflect from the truth and tear down your accuser.

 

[BroTan]

Many church denominations today have different interpretations of what the Bible says concerning baptism. A good number of church officials place a strong emphasis on baptism and how it relates to salvation. Also, because of the many different denominations in this country, we have different ways of being baptized(being dipped, sprinkled, immersion, etc.). The Bible is pretty clear in defining baptism as an act of immersion. Baptize is from a Greek word meaning, "to submerge in water." Also, baptism by immersion easily identifies Christ's death, burial, and resurrection. When we accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, Christians are then baptized as a testimony of their faith. While some feel baptism takes on a more important role than faith alone, it is indeed important to the Christian faith but is not dependent upon salvation. Ephesians 2:8, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves". As with every subject matter in scripture, we must take the entire text into account concerning baptism. Salvation is humility, repentance, and the transformation of a new person and not the product of one activity.

Acts 10:44-48 "While Peter spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all of them which heard the word". Receiving the Holy Spirit comes before baptism. Since only a truly saved person can have the Holy Spirit, it would seem that baptism, in this context wasn't needed for the household of Cornelious' to receive the gift of salvation. **Interesting to note that Paul was God's "chosen vessel" to preach the word to the gentiles, but Peter was the first of Jesus' disciples to preach to a gentile family. God chose Peter to bring the Word to Israel at the start of the ministry.

1 Peter 3:21 This is a verse that many turn to who support baptism as necessary for salvation. "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth now save us". If we stopped reading at this point, this would seem a bit confusing. Continuing, "(Not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), by the resurrection of Jesus Christ". Clearly, we can see here that baptism cannot wash away the "filth of the flesh" or sin that is in our lives, only Jesus can.

Acts 16:30-34 and Acts 18:8 All who hear and receive the Gospel of Jesus Christ are fit candidates for baptism. Hearing, believing, and being baptized is a consistent pattern for Christians.

Acts 19:1-5 Another passage that can be confusing if we focus on just one single text in the story. This was Paul's third missionary journey in which he meets some men who were "disciples", that is believers but had been baptized under John's baptism. Notice that it is recorded that they were "believers" in Christ. Their salvation was secure, but many interpret this passage as meaning the men were not saved and were the reason why Paul had to baptize them again. This was now the church age in which Jesus left us with a "comforter", that is the Holy Spirit. The men had taken the first step in the repentance of sins, but Christians are baptized for their faith in Jesus. The men were living under the Old Testament covenant. Paul recognizes this, thus he baptized them under the new covenant.

The book of Ephesians chapter two explains salvation by grace through faith very well and never mentions baptism is a means for salvation. The Grace of God is the expression of His love toward the undeserving. Those who deserve the Lake of fire, obtain Heaven. Faith is humanity's response to God's Word and His gift of salvation. Baptism is a "work" and since chapter 2 of Ephesians tells us "not of works", one can conclude that we cannot earn our way to salvation, through baptism or any other kind of "works". When a believer submits for a baptism, they are buried as a dead person, but then raised up new. They are proclaiming their faith in Jesus' death and resurrection as the means by which they are saved from the burning Lake of fire. The unbelievers should not be baptized at all, but the saved ought to be baptized as a matter of obedience(Jesus did it) and testimony. Christian baptism should be a part of their life, but to make it a means of salvation is to muddle the Gospel of Grace.

If we truly love God, then we will obey "Every word" that proceeds out of his mouth (Matthew 4:4). Baptism is one of those words. In order to be baptized, certain events must take place: You must give up a lifestyle where sin has dominion, (ruler ship) over you. Sin according to 1 John 3:4, Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression (breaking) of the law. You must be taught "The Word", before you can adhere to God's commandments (judgments\statues). These laws are found in the Holy Bible; beginning with Genesis and ending with Revelation. You must believe what the bible says and finally, you must confess that Jesus is Lord. Once this has been accomplished, you are qualified to be baptized in the name of Jesus.

"And he said unto them, go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:15-16).

But let's take a look at when the baptism started in the Bible. Let's go to 1 Corinthian 10: 1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 and were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 and did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 and did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

So the baptism go as far as Moses. Why? Because God made Moses the intercessor, like today Jesus is the our intercessor to the Father. But guess what else we just leaned in these verses, Jesus Christ was back there in the days of Moses as God almighty. Yes! That was Jesus. Remember what Jesus says to the jews in John 8: 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, "repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38).

So what happen to those who are not baptize and who do not repent?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

If we truly love God, then we will obey "Every word" that proceeds out of his mouth (Matthew 4:4). Baptism is one of those words. In order to be baptized, certain events must take place: You must give up a lifestyle where sin has dominion, (ruler ship) over you. Sin according to 1 John 3:4, Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression (breaking) of the law. You must be taught "The Word", before you can adhere to God's commandments (judgments\statues). These laws are found in the Holy Bible; beginning with Genesis and ending with Revelation. You must believe what the bible says and finally, you must confess that Jesus is Lord. Once this has been accomplished, you are qualified to be baptized in the name of Jesus.

"And he said unto them, go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:15-16).

But let's take a look at when the baptism started in the Bible. Let's go to 1 Corinthian 10: 1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 and were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 and did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 and did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

So the baptism go as far as Moses. Why? Because God made Moses the intercessor, like today Jesus is the our intercessor to the Father. But guess what else we just leaned in these verses, Jesus Christ was back there in the days of Moses as God almighty. Yes! That was Jesus. Remember what Jesus says to the jews in John 8: 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, "repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38).

So what happen to those who are not baptize and who do not repent?

Legalism 101

If they did not repent, they did not recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit and redemption of sin. And whether they got baptized or not would not matter.

If they did repent, They recieved the gift and redemption. And Peter said on account of this fact. Be baptised. And those who believed (repented) were baptised.

why? Because they recieved remission of sin and obeyed

he did not tell them to get baptised in order to recieve remission of sin. The greek language does not allow for that.

 

[mailmandan]

As to what scripture says occurs in water baptism:
"And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." Acts 22:16

Baptism here pictures the washing away of sins by the blood of Christ, but it does not literally wash away our sins, contrary to your conclusion. Jamison, Fausset, and Brown Commentary makes not of the importance of the Greek in Ananias' statement. When Ananias tells Paul to "arise, be baptized, wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord," the tense of the last command is literally "having called" (aorist middle participle). "Calling on [epikalesamenos] --- 'having (that is, after having) called on,' referring the confession of Christ which preceded baptism." [Jamison, Fausset, and Brown Commentary, vol. 3 pg. 160]. Kenneth Wuest picks up on this Greek nuance and translates the verse as follows: "And now, why are you delaying? Having arisen, be baptized and wash away your sins, having previously called upon His Name." (Acts 22:16, Wuest's Expanded NT)

In Acts 10:43, receiving remission of sins is connected with "believes in Him" and not with baptism (Acts 10:43-47). In Acts 9, Jesus told Ananias that Paul "is a chosen vessel unto Me" (vs 15), although the apostle had not yet been water baptized. Before Paul was baptized, Christ had already commissioned him to "bear His name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel" (Acts 9:15) and such a commission is not for one who is still lost in their sins. Before Paul’s baptism, Christ had set him aside as one who would "suffer for His name’s sake." (9:16) Can one who is a child of the devil, as all the lost are (Ephesians 2:1-3, John 8:44), really suffer for Christ’s sake? NO.

So, Paul had already believed in Christ when Ananias came to pray for him to receive his sight (Acts 9:17). It also should be noted that Paul at the time when Ananias prayed for him to receive his sight, he was filled with the Holy Spirit (Acts 9:17)--this was BEFORE he was water baptized. (Acts 9:18) Verse 17 connects his being filled with the Spirit with the receiving of his sight. We know that he received his sight prior to his baptism.

Excellent article on Acts 22:16 - https://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2015/03/acts-2216-baptism-essential-for.html

*It's interesting that when Paul recounted this event again later in Acts (Acts 26:12-18), he did not mention Ananias or what Ananias said to him at all. Verse 18 again would confirm the idea that Paul received Christ as Savior on the road to Damascus since here Christ is telling Paul he will be a messenger for Him concerning forgiveness of sins for Gentiles as they have faith in Him. It would seem unlikely that Christ would commission Paul if Paul had not yet believed in Him and was still lost in his sins.

"... be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,... Acts 2:38

In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).

In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

*So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*

And Peter's words concerning one's willingness to believe and act upon the God-given command to be baptized in water.
"And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Save yourselves from this untoward generation, not save yourselves by getting water baptized. Jesus saves us eternally.

41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls." Acts 2:40-41

Then they that gladly received his word (through repentance/faith) were "afterwards" baptized and added unto them about three thousands souls.

Acts 4:4 - Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand.

Acts 5:14 - And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.