Salvation

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ChristianTonyB said:
Well, ok. But extrapolating if I may, from what you say here, one can conclude that if they don't repent and they continue to practice lawlessness, they will continue to be separated from fellowship with God. Logic would then infer that if they die in that unrepentant state, they will continue to remain separated from God, and for all eternity.
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In reference to mankind's logic; None of us understand God's will, but we have faith that his will is best for us. I am 87 years old and have looked back at my life, thanking God that he lead me down paths that I would not have taken by my own logic. Sometime we have to have a very strong faith in God to cope with the things that are going on around us.

Applying all of the salvation (deliverance) scriptures to eternal deliverance will, seemingly, cause the scriptures to teach eternal deliverance is accomplished by our good works. When actually most of the salvation scriptures are referring to deliverances that God's children receive as they sojourn here on earth. The inspired scriptures are instructions as to how God wants his children to live their lives here on earth.
 
Magenta said:
Exactly: saved by grace THROUGH faith. So how can someone who is born again have no faith? That is what you have proposed.
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When a born again child of God backslides without having fellowship with God for so long a period of time their faith will grow weaker and weaker., but their eternal inheritance will not be lost. It is our God given duty to extend our help to the lost sheep of the household of Jacob/Israel, being careful not to lose our fellowship with God.

We are saved by grace through faith OF JESUS, not faith of mankind.
 
ForestGreenCook said:
When a born again child of God backslides without having fellowship with God for so long a period of time their faith will grow weaker and weaker., but their eternal inheritance will not be lost. It is our God given duty to extend our help to the lost sheep of the household of Jacob/Israel, being careful not to lose our fellowship with God.

We are saved by grace through faith OF JESUS, not faith of mankind.
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Not sure why you keep bringing up this "faith of mankind."

How can a person be born again devoid of faith, and/or belief in God and His redemptive plan through Jesus Christ?
 
LoveBrokeThru said:
Salvation is actually independent of a sinner, until it is delivered to you as "the GIFT of Salvation".

So...When you think of .. ."what is salvation"...... the way to understand it best is to realize that is not anything that you can do.
= This eliminates, everything but Salvation.

See, Salvation is not a do, ... Salvation is a Savior.

Jesus is Salvation., and nothing else. John 14:6

What does that mean?
It means that once you understand this, then you will stop trying to save yourself, or keep yourself saved, and that is because you have understood that Salvation is a WHO.
And the WHO, is Jesus.
This means that if you have JESUS, in you, then you have the ONE who IS Salvation, and He has you.

"but what about water baptism, and commandment keeping, and taking the Sacrament's , and trying to be like Christ". ???

What about it?
What about it ? !!

That is all YOU doing that, and Salvation is not YOU...........its HIM.
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Salvation, according to Greek translation means "a deliverance". If you apply all of the salvations to eternal the scriptures would,seemingly, teach eternal salvation by our good works. There is a deliverance (salvation) that born again children of God receives as they sojourns here on earth that is awarded for their good works. There is a salvation we receive here on earth, and there is a salvation that we receive eternally.
 
Magenta said:
Not sure why you keep bringing up this "faith of mankind."

How can a person be born again devoid of faith, and/or belief in God and His redemptive plan through Jesus Christ?
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The un-regenerant man as described in 1 Cor 2:14 only has faith in mankind and his accomplishments. After he has been quickened to the new spiritual life by God's sovereign grace, without any action on his part, (Eph 2:1-5) he is given the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in which spiritual faith is a fruit of (Gal 5:22) then he can believe in spiritual things.
I do not believe the scriptures to teach that God has a redemptive plan. God does not plan things, he purposes them, If you will give me some scriptures that you think teaches that God has a plan, I will try to explain them to you.
 
ForestGreenCook said:
The un-regenerant man as described in 1 Cor 2:14 only has faith in mankind and his accomplishments. After he has been quickened to the new spiritual life by God's sovereign grace, without any action on his part, (Eph 2:1-5) he is given the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in which spiritual faith is a fruit of (Gal 5:22) then he can believe in spiritual things.
I do not believe the scriptures to teach that God has a redemptive plan. God does not plan things, he purposes them, If you will give me some scriptures that you think teaches that God has a plan, I will try to explain them to you.
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I am still waiting for you to explain how a non-believer is saved devoid of faith.

Purpose, plan, same difference. They are synonymous.

Isaiah46-10s.png

Isaiah 46:10
:)
 
ForestGreenCook said:
After he has been quickened to the new spiritual life by God's sovereign grace, without any action on his part, (Eph 2:1-5) he is given the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in which spiritual faith is a fruit of (Gal 5:22) then he can believe in spiritual things.
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Nothing required? Not even repentance, belief, faith? Sounds like universalism.
 
ForestGreenCook said:
With all due respect, What is your interpretation of those two verses?
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Which two? You gave three. We are saved by grace~ check. By grace, through faith.

Gal 5:22~ faithfulness. What you have said, though, is a person is saved without anything being required
of them. My question all along has been, how can a person be saved aside from repentance and faith?

ForestGreenCook said:
No believing, no accepting, no repenting.
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ForestGreenCook said:
In reference to mankind's logic; None of us understand God's will, but we have faith that his will is best for us. I am 87 years old and have looked back at my life, thanking God that he lead me down paths that I would not have taken by my own logic. Sometime we have to have a very strong faith in God to cope with the things that are going on around us.

Applying all of the salvation (deliverance) scriptures to eternal deliverance will, seemingly, cause the scriptures to teach eternal deliverance is accomplished by our good works. When actually most of the salvation scriptures are referring to deliverances that God's children receive as they sojourn here on earth. The inspired scriptures are instructions as to how God wants his children to live their lives here on earth.
Click to expand...

I guess I could have said that there will be a different end result for us, depending on whether we practice lawlessness or lawfulness. I do agree that God will try and check our direction to keep us on, or get us back on the path that Jesus walks. But we also know that He won't persist with our stubbornness, our want to do what pleases our egos or flesh, forever. He will eventually stand aside and allow us to go on our own merry way which will surely lead us to pain at the very least, and if we don't return chastened as per the prodigal son, even leading to our eventual destruction.

The Vine and branches parable is a perfect illustration of what we can expect. And the inference in that parable is that we can obviously get ourselves into a state where we aren't bearing fruit, and if that condition persists we may well be pruned off the Vine as dead branches, fit only for the unending fire.
 
I am from Muslim country but from Christian family so there are Christian there but minority Muslim always say Christian encourage killing
They think Christian save by faith mean,you can do what ever you want ex killing rob the bank as long as you believe Jesus God you go to heaven

I try to explain to them that was wrong
Faith mean asking Jesus into your heart than He will change you into loving person

Sheep in Matt 25 is the product of real faith
And Matt 24:13 say need keeping faith to the end not only an hour than back to killing
 
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Some people believe it possible to have faith without relationship
They believe that person save but no reward

How you have faith without relationship?

To me faith mean believe also His teaching and His teaching is to abide in Him how you abide without relationship? Look odd
 
ForestGreenCook said:
Is it correct to say that the meaning of salvation is "a deliverance"?
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What is the synonym of deliverance?

liberation, release, freeing, rescue, delivery, discharge, ransom, emancipation. salvation, redemption.

a thing or person that rescues somebody/something from danger, disaster, etc.

What is salvation in Jesus Christ?

Salvation is God's grace. It is the gift of freedom from our sins that Jesus made possible by taking the punishment for our sins on the cross.:giggle:
 
Jackson123 said:
Some people believe it possible to have faith without relationship
They believe that person save but no reward

How you have faith without relationship?

To me faith mean believe also His teaching and His teaching is to abide in Him how you abide without relationship? Look odd
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Yes. Some people put what you have said in a phrase such as...we must have faith, but we must be faithful (obedient) too. Faith without obedience to God is useless, a light put aside which is of benefit to no one.
 
Magenta said:
how can a person be saved aside from repentance and faith?
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The reason that so many born again children are confused about the salvation scriptures, is that they apply all of the salvation scriptures to eternal salvation. Salvation, according to Greek translation means "a deliverance". The scriptures do teach that there is a deliverance(salvation) that the born again child of God receives, by their good works, as they sojourn here on earth, such as confessing, believing in spiritual things, repenting, etc.

Most of God's born again children think they are eternally saved (delivered) by their good works, such as repenting, believing in spiritual things, accepting Jesus, etc.

This is why they insist that the un-regenerant person described in 1 Cor 2:14 can believe in spiritual things, and can repent, confess of their sins, accept Jesus. There is an eternal deliverance, and there is a deliverance that the born again child of God receives, many times over, as he sojourns here on earth, such as, when he prays to God asking for physical healing, and when God grants his healing he has been delivered(saved) from his illness.

If a person applies all of the salvation(deliverance) scriptures to eternal deliverance, the scriptures will, seemingly, teach that a person is eternally delivered (saved) by their good works.
 
Magenta said:
how can a person be saved aside from repentance and faith?
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The un-regenerant person only has faith in mankind and his accomplishments. this faith has nothing to do with spiritual faith, which is a fruit of the Holy Spirit that indwells mankind when they are quickened to the new spiritual life by God's sovereign grace (Eph 2:1-5).
 
ChristianTonyB said:
I guess I could have said that there will be a different end result for us, depending on whether we practice lawlessness or lawfulness. I do agree that God will try and check our direction to keep us on, or get us back on the path that Jesus walks. But we also know that He won't persist with our stubbornness, our want to do what pleases our egos or flesh, forever. He will eventually stand aside and allow us to go on our own merry way which will surely lead us to pain at the very least, and if we don't return chastened as per the prodigal son, even leading to our eventual destruction.

The Vine and branches parable is a perfect illustration of what we can expect. And the inference in that parable is that we can obviously get ourselves into a state where we aren't bearing fruit, and if that condition persists we may well be pruned off the Vine as dead branches, fit only for the unending fire.
Click to expand...
The prodigal son, had he not returned to his father, was still his father's son. Even if the son physically died his father would have reclaimed his body, and brought him home.

John 15 - This has reference to the un-regenerant man, and the regenerant man. The regenerant man is the branch that abides in the vine (Jesus). Verse 6 refers to the un-regenerant man, as a branch, that never had abided in the vine.

In Romans 11, Talking about bringing in of the Gentiles. Verse 23, If they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
 
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