Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[brightfame52]

All I am doing is holding you to the truth of Scripture and shining a light on the error of your dogma.





Nope. You project onto me the error of your dogma.

Again, since

1) Romans 3:22 clearly states righteousness is through faith; and

2) Romans 3:24 clearly states we are justified freely by God's grace; then

3) It is error on your part to conclude that faith is a "work" on the part of man

Please follow Scripture ... let go of the error contained in your dogma.

Romans 3:

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;





Intentionally obtuse. You continue to steer the discussion to your "talking points" rather than address the issue raised:

Please focus on the issue:

If "Faith is a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22" and a person must be born again of Holy Spirit in order to have "Faith" which "is a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22", you've got a person born again in order to have the "Faith" which "is a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22" which allows the person to believe the gospel in order to be born again. You've got the cart before the horse.​

Let me make this simpler for you:

If

1) faith is fruit of the Spirit; and

2) a person must be born again of Holy Spirit in order to have Faith; then

3) in your scenario, the person is born again before he/she believes the gospel by which he/she is born again.





There is only one faith, brightfame52.

Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

The faith the hindu utilizes to believe in brahma is the same faith the born again one utilizes to believe the gospel of Christ (which is the power of God unto salvation).

The issue is in Whom do you have faith?

The more you believe a lie, the worse it is for you.
.

There is a human faith, and there is faith the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

So do all human beings have Faith the fruit of the Spirit ? Lol, You are a joke. Does the demons have Faith, they believe James 2:19

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Is the devils faith to believe in God the same Faith given to the saints in Rom 12:3 ?

Is it the same Faith of Eph 4:5

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

3) in your scenario, the person is born again before he/she believes the gospel by which he/she is born again.

Yes, a person is born again prior to believing the Gospel of Christ, scripture teaches that,

John 1:12-13

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

So the scriptures puts believing unto salvation following the new birth, as a spiritual result of it !

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

All I am doing is holding you to the truth of Scripture and shining a light on the error of your dogma.

What you doing is giving men a reason to boast about a quality God sees in them which causes Him to Justify a person, that quality being your natural born faith.

However I know, Paul knows that Faith which is pleasing to God is not of ourselves, its a Gift of God Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Its an gift/allotment from God Our Saviour and Jesus Christ 2 Pet 1:1

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

That word obtained is the greek word lagchanō :

1. o obtain by lot
   1. to receive by divine allotment, obtain
2. to cast lots, determine by lot

Allotment is another synonym for gift

Yet you degrade Faith to be generated by the sinful flesh of man and then able to boast !

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

The word "antichrist" is translated from two Greek words ... the word antí which means "in place of" and the word Xristós or Christ

antichrist is whatever we hold "in place of Christ".

Again antichrist merely means against Christ. John wrote that there were many antichrist in his day, not just one brand but many 1 Jn 2:18

Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Any teaching that attempts to steal the Glory due to God in Christ for the Salvation of His People is antichrist, like your teaching that the Blood of Christ alone wasnt enough to Justify Gods elect, them Jesus died for without mans act of faith contributing. Thats stealing Glory from Christs Blood accomplishment and given it to mans faith.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

"those He died for"

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
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Correct, and you deny that His Death alone Justified them. Thats antichrist, against Christ.

For instance you say that there are people in the world of Jn 1:29 where sin has been taken away by the Lamb of God, you turn right around and say someone in that world will die in their sins unjustified, regardless of what Christ did in taking away their sin ! Thats antichrist !

 

[brightfame52]

What you say I believe is not the same as what I believe, no matter how many times nor how vociferously you repeat what you believe I believe.

I have told you what I believe and still you misrepresent what I believe because you are either unable to comprehend or you are intentionally obtuse.


I believe the Lord Jesus Christ died for the sins of the whole world as stated in Scripture:

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

I also believe God created, formed, made mankind and included faith within all mankind. When mankind misutilizes the faith God placed inherently within mankind and believes (has faith) in a lie, mankind rejects God.

Romans 1:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.


vs 18 – the words "who hold" are translated from the Greek word katechō which means to hinder, restrain. Some folks hinder the truth ... restrain the truth.

vs 19 – God reveals Himself so that all mankind may know Him. Those who do not hinder/restrain the truth live by faith.

vs 20 – all of creation attests to the eternal power and Godhead. Those who hinder/restrain the truth are without excuse.

vs 21 – they knew God and turned from God to their own empty reasonings. As a result, their foolish heart becomes darkened.


This is not the first time I have explained this to you, brightfame52. So, please, quit with your accusations that I am "scared to publicly admit word for word" what it is I believe.

And if/when you need to explain what it is I believe, just copy and paste from this post so that you accurately tell me what it is I believe.

In other words, you continuously read what others write (including the Author of Scripture) through the lens of your erroneous dogma. And your dogma is in error to the point where you cannot comprehend the simplest truth.
.

You believe in mans merit salvation/justification. You have made the sinners faith the meritorious ground by which God saves or Justifies them,

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

Nope. Here's the truth of Scripture with no added words to the text:

Like I said you believe a lie. The scripture doesnt teach that Christ died for all without exception, but all the Elect.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

Quit manipulating Scripture to align it with your erroneous dogma. Align your dogma to Scripture. Wherever your dogma does not align with Scripture, get rid of the error. Do not manipulate the text of Scripture to conform it to your dogma.

Thats what you are doing to teach the false dogma of Christ dying for all without exception !

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

brightfame52, you continuously misrepresent what I tell you I believe.

Here is what I said:
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

The word "believeth" is also in the present tense.

The verse states that the person believes on Him [God] who justifies the ungodly. The person knows he/she is ungodly and yet believes in the God Who justifies him/her and his/her faith is counted for righteousness.

Again you teach from the passage you are corrupting, that mans faith is his righteousness. So according to your dogma Rom 4:5 is teaching that the unregenerates faith is counted as his righteousness, not Christ, but their act of believing faith.. Thats self righteousness, mans righteousness.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

Mankind is wholly undeserving of God's mercy, grace, lovingkindness. We all know this. And yet, God, in His great mercy, grace, lovingkindness justifies that undeserving person when he/she believes on Him [God]who justifies the ungodly

There you again, teaching Justification by the act of believing ungodly sinner.

I teach and the bible teaches that God Justifies the ungodly sinner when Christ died for them. See the difference ?

You put Justification before God after the sinners act, I see Justification before God based upon Christs act.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

God is the One Who justifies. God sees the faith of the person who believes in Him and God imputes righteousness on that person.

There you go, Justification by what God sees in the sinner, thats works, merit, wherein I believe and teach that when God sees the Blood of Christ shed for that ungodly sinner, He imputes righteousness to that person.

In your theology which is man centered God responds to mans act of faith, in my theology which is Christ centered, God responds to Christs Blood. When I see the blood I will pass over you, not when I see your faith/believing !

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

Again, you telling me what I believe is not the same as what I actually believe, no matter how often nor how vociferously you repeat your lies.

Im telling you what you believe because you told me what you believe, you posting it:

Matt 12:37
For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

You said when God sees a mans faith, He justifies them, you posted that:

God is the One Who justifies. God sees the faith of the person who believes in Him and God imputes righteousness on that person.

Now didnt you post that ? You plainly teach that God justifies you or anyone based upon what God sees in the sinner. Im not making this up, its your own words

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

Your problem is you believe faith = works and Scripture is quite clear that faith ≠ works. You have even gone so far as to erroneously state that the Lord Jesus Christ "specifically Identifies Faith as ... Law". What a crock!!!

No I dont believe God given Faith given in the new birth equals works, I believe the faith in the unregenerate natural man, that God sees in them and based upon that God justifies them, that equals works, merit and is contrary to Justification by the Blood and Grace of Jesus Christ.
.

 

[brightfame52]

Intentionally obtuse.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

More manipulation of Scripture in your vain attempt to force Scripture to align with your erroneous dogma.

The gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation.

Romans 1:16 does not state the gospel of Christ is the power of God unto believing, as you incorrectly claim.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

The Gospel is the power of God which results in believing, thats what Rom 1:16 teaches. The elect sinner who has been born again, will believe the Gospel when it comes as the Power of God with the Holy Spirit.

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

Its confirmed here "who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,"

Your false teaching supposes dead unregenerate sinners believe by their own freewill, giving mans will the credit, whereas I and Paul give credit to Gods Power causing the believing.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

Ephesians 1:19 is part of a prayer by Paul in which Paul prays for the believer who, according to Ephesians 1:13 trusted in Christ after hearing the Word of truth, the gospel of salvation and after believing was sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession:

Eph 1:19 is a prayer, which states that they believed according to the working of Gods Power. Eph 1:19

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

What you are doing is denying the Truth again. No you dont come right out and say, I deny this, you start scrambling up things to conceal the truth, which boils down to denial of truth.

 

[SparkyGreg]

Since all are ungodly and all are sinful, all may be justified by grace through faith. But few will enter the narrow gate.

I am glad someone in this post chain noticed that there has been much said about Christ work applying to the elect. It does benefit those who believe.
HOWEVER- His work was done for all people (unrighteous and ungodly).

Romans 5:16-18
And the free gift is not like the result of that one man’s sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. For if, because of one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ. Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men (Ro 5:16-18).
1 Corinthians 15:22 ESV
For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
Titus 2:11 ESV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,
Romans 11:32 ESV
For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.
John 12:32 ESV
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.
John 12:47 ESV
If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.
Luke 3:6 ESV
And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.’
1 John 2:2 ESV
He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole .world
John 1:29 ESV
The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

And there are more!

The central truth of Scripture is that Jesus died for all. Universal Objective Justification.

 

[brightfame52]

Nope. I read the verse just as written. You, on the other hand, change the verse in your effort to prop up your erroneous dogma.

You follow in the footsteps of Eve.
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No you manipulate scripture, or wrest it as its written here 2 Pet 3:16


As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

Nope. More of your projecting onto me your erroneous dogma because you believe faith = works (even though Scripture is quite clear in stating that faith ≠ works).

See you not saying what scripture is saying, you saying Justification before God is based on God seeing in you faith. Thats not scripture, thats you saying that. So you base Justification on your works, your graces in you, all the same !

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

You don't believe Scripture because Scripture tells us Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Scripture also tells us Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


I didn't write Scripture ... the Author of Scripture is God. Since you have a problem with faith not being works and yet mankind being justified by faith, you need to go to the Author and ask Him to work in your heart to reveal to you. However, in order to comprehend, you must be willing to let go of what does not hold true and trust God with your whole heart.

Its you i dont believe, because you promote Justification by your works, your graces, or your act of believing faith.

 

[brightfame52]

true!
but the natural man can understand his guilt in the presence of God and choose to accept to repent of them. then the natural man becomes spiritual and the things of God become wise unto him.

Thats false. The natural man is dead to God.