Is The Earth Flat Or Round?
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5 flat Earthers already!! What is this world coming to?? LOL!
I personally think the issue here is not "common sense", nor is the issue "science, nor is the issue "the Bible".
I think the issue is . . . . . . .... -- actually - I think I have no idea what the issue is . . . . . . Maybe it is just sheer pride and nonsense!
I personally think the issue here is not "common sense", nor is the issue "science, nor is the issue "the Bible".
I think the issue is . . . . . . .... -- actually - I think I have no idea what the issue is . . . . . . Maybe it is just sheer pride and nonsense!
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J
One trip to Saskatchewan and one knows that much of the earth is flat. I once had a fishing buddy from Saskatchewan. Once in awhile I called him a flatlander. I don't think he appreciated my sense of humor much!
I saw a SpaceX rocket take off yesterday via video. You could see as it got higher the curve of the earth. Much like I could see it when I used to go flying with my dad.
I saw a SpaceX rocket take off yesterday via video. You could see as it got higher the curve of the earth. Much like I could see it when I used to go flying with my dad.
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Although I come from a different tradition to Augustine, I share with him the concern for the misuse of scripture to promote or oppose a physical fact which links the human individual to their terrestrial and celestial surroundings. It is part of spirit/inspiration that people make the effort to enjoy the gift of God in our journey through life from child to adult where the connection between the person and physical creation is part of the connection between a person and God -
"Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he holds to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men." Augustine
"Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he holds to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men." Augustine
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Hi Seed_time_harvest.
God gave me a gift when it comes to these things and I always want to share the information with other Christians so long as they are open to them. Even within the ancient writings themselves, there are brilliant observations and questions following from those observations-
" Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion? Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons? Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?" Book of Job
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Job 38&version=KJV
The idea of bringing Mazzaroth in his season is an incredibly old observation that predates the Ptolemaic notion of the Sun moving through the 12 constellations by many thousands of years. It is also, with the help of contemporary satellite imaging, a demonstration that the Earth orbits the Sun.
Astronomy has always been a visual exercise so all it needs are Christians to open their eyes to a fresh approach to the daily and annual motions of the Earth in a Sun-centred system. In short, people can do better than argue the shape of the Earth when we can discern how our home planet moves and makes life possible in the process.
God gave me a gift when it comes to these things and I always want to share the information with other Christians so long as they are open to them. Even within the ancient writings themselves, there are brilliant observations and questions following from those observations-
" Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion? Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons? Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?" Book of Job
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Job 38&version=KJV
The idea of bringing Mazzaroth in his season is an incredibly old observation that predates the Ptolemaic notion of the Sun moving through the 12 constellations by many thousands of years. It is also, with the help of contemporary satellite imaging, a demonstration that the Earth orbits the Sun.
Astronomy has always been a visual exercise so all it needs are Christians to open their eyes to a fresh approach to the daily and annual motions of the Earth in a Sun-centred system. In short, people can do better than argue the shape of the Earth when we can discern how our home planet moves and makes life possible in the process.
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Below is a portion of a page from Dr Jason Lisle's website.
(astrophysicist and committed Christian) Link below.
"One of the strangest claims that you will find on some internet posts is the claim that the Bible supposedly teaches a flat earth. This is odd indeed because the Bible clearly indicates that the earth is round. Job 26:10 poetically describes God inscribing a circle on the face of the waters at the boundary between light and darkness. This boundary is what scientists today call the “terminator.” It is the location on the earth’s surface where evening and morning occur, shown by the red dashes in figure 1. In other words, a person standing on the terminator is either experiencing a sunrise, or a sunset. The shape of the terminator is a circle, just as the Bible states in Job 26:10. And it occurs primarily on the waters of the earth because the earth’s surface is 71% water. A sphere is the only shape where the terminator will always be a circle.
The roundness of the earth is implied in other passages as well. Genesis 6-8 describes a global flood in which all the high hills under the entire heaven were covered (Genesis 7:19). Of course, you cannot have a global flood without a globe. If the earth were flat, the water would run off the sides unless there were a rim around the edge – which would constitute a hill that is not covered with water, contrary to Genesis 7:19."
Source page: https://biblicalscienceinstitute.com/apologetics/is-the-earth-really-round/
There is a lot to read there
(astrophysicist and committed Christian) Link below.
"One of the strangest claims that you will find on some internet posts is the claim that the Bible supposedly teaches a flat earth. This is odd indeed because the Bible clearly indicates that the earth is round. Job 26:10 poetically describes God inscribing a circle on the face of the waters at the boundary between light and darkness. This boundary is what scientists today call the “terminator.” It is the location on the earth’s surface where evening and morning occur, shown by the red dashes in figure 1. In other words, a person standing on the terminator is either experiencing a sunrise, or a sunset. The shape of the terminator is a circle, just as the Bible states in Job 26:10. And it occurs primarily on the waters of the earth because the earth’s surface is 71% water. A sphere is the only shape where the terminator will always be a circle.
The roundness of the earth is implied in other passages as well. Genesis 6-8 describes a global flood in which all the high hills under the entire heaven were covered (Genesis 7:19). Of course, you cannot have a global flood without a globe. If the earth were flat, the water would run off the sides unless there were a rim around the edge – which would constitute a hill that is not covered with water, contrary to Genesis 7:19."
Source page: https://biblicalscienceinstitute.com/apologetics/is-the-earth-really-round/
There is a lot to read there
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The idea of a star coming in season, in this case, 'Mazzaroth', within the magnificent Book of Job, is the basis of our present calendar system and much older than the less accurate and more recent Ptolemaic framework.
It can be dismaying seeing arguments over a round/flat Earth when these ancient societies were already organising timekeeping around the daily and annual cycles insofar as the observation of a first seasonal appearance of a star is thousands of years older than its emergence as the Canopus decree-
".. on account of the procession of the rising of Sirius by one day in the course of 4 years,.. therefore it shall be, that the year of 360 days and the 5 days added to their end, so one day shall be from this day after every 4 years added to the 5 epagomenae before the new year" Canopus Decree 238 BC
https://themathematicaltourist.wordpress.com/2012/10/13/the-decans-in-senenmuts-tomb/#:~:text=The Egyptians divided the stars,through the sky on ships.
The whole scheme is gorgeous in terms of the daily and annual motions of the Earth and made possible using a satellite tracking with the Earth around the Sun-
https://sol24.net/data/html/SOHO/C3/96H/VIDEO/
The stars appear to move from left (evening appearance) to right (morning appearance) of the central/stationary Sun as a reflection of the Earth's orbital motion. When a star such as Mazzaroth/Sirius is far enough to the right of the Sun's glare, it shows up one morning as a dawn appearance. This is why I adore the comment from Job-
" Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons? Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?" Book of Job
Christians can do better than dwell on whether the Earth is flat/round as that diminishes Christ and Christianity. The Christian heritage in solar system research is enormous until the denominational Churches jettisoned their great heritage after the Galileo affair, hence few appreciate just how magnificent and productive the old statements are.
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Below is a portion of a page from Dr Jason Lisle's website.
(astrophysicist and committed Christian) Link below.
"One of the strangest claims that you will find on some internet posts is the claim that the Bible supposedly teaches a flat earth. This is odd indeed because the Bible clearly indicates that the earth is round. Job 26:10 poetically describes God inscribing a circle on the face of the waters at the boundary between light and darkness. This boundary is what scientists today call the “terminator.” It is the location on the earth’s surface where evening and morning occur, shown by the red dashes in figure 1. In other words, a person standing on the terminator is either experiencing a sunrise, or a sunset. The shape of the terminator is a circle, just as the Bible states in Job 26:10. And it occurs primarily on the waters of the earth because the earth’s surface is 71% water. A sphere is the only shape where the terminator will always be a circle.
The roundness of the earth is implied in other passages as well. Genesis 6-8 describes a global flood in which all the high hills under the entire heaven were covered (Genesis 7:19). Of course, you cannot have a global flood without a globe. If the earth were flat, the water would run off the sides unless there were a rim around the edge – which would constitute a hill that is not covered with water, contrary to Genesis 7:19."
Source page: https://biblicalscienceinstitute.com/apologetics/is-the-earth-really-round/
There is a lot to read there
(astrophysicist and committed Christian) Link below.
"One of the strangest claims that you will find on some internet posts is the claim that the Bible supposedly teaches a flat earth. This is odd indeed because the Bible clearly indicates that the earth is round. Job 26:10 poetically describes God inscribing a circle on the face of the waters at the boundary between light and darkness. This boundary is what scientists today call the “terminator.” It is the location on the earth’s surface where evening and morning occur, shown by the red dashes in figure 1. In other words, a person standing on the terminator is either experiencing a sunrise, or a sunset. The shape of the terminator is a circle, just as the Bible states in Job 26:10. And it occurs primarily on the waters of the earth because the earth’s surface is 71% water. A sphere is the only shape where the terminator will always be a circle.
The roundness of the earth is implied in other passages as well. Genesis 6-8 describes a global flood in which all the high hills under the entire heaven were covered (Genesis 7:19). Of course, you cannot have a global flood without a globe. If the earth were flat, the water would run off the sides unless there were a rim around the edge – which would constitute a hill that is not covered with water, contrary to Genesis 7:19."
Source page: https://biblicalscienceinstitute.com/apologetics/is-the-earth-really-round/
There is a lot to read there
The statement quoted above is just wrapping scripture around the assumption of a spinning globe earth.
Scripture should be examined without making any such assumptions. (less interpretation error)
Job 26:
10 He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.
This is talking about setting a boundary around the oceans.
It is describing a one-time "He set it in place." occurrence.
It is not talking about the shape of the [whole] earth.
It is 100% about the oceans and nothing else.
I believe it is referring to the ice wall.
I believe the same thing is being referred to by 'circle of the earth' in this verse:
Isaiah 40:
22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
Please also pay close attention to what the rest of the verse is saying...
It is totally idiotic to say "Of course, you cannot have a global flood without a globe." - 'world-wide' is more accurate - 'global' is an assumption.
The idea of "water running off the sides" is an assumption.
The "rim around the edge" is not around the edge.
P
How ironic you would say that in defense of your flat earth belief
Still using the one-liners I see. People who are aware of the extent of God's creation, that is the expanding universe, are not flat earthers. Why would you think people who see beyond your unrealistic version of the world are the ones who believe blindly? That is quite the diversion you offer and of course it could be described as personal in nature.
When people fall back on the you are dumb, ignorant, uneducated, stupid or whatever reason for not believing as someone else does (you in this case), it becomes nothing more than an ad hominem fallacy. People, again you in this case, do this when they reject or criticize another point of view based on their own reasoning and lack of solid evidence of what they say.
People are not all living in the backwoods in caves somewhere and it is more than obvious that 'people' always question or we would not have the flat earth society telling us the earth is surrounded by a giant ice wall, more reminiscent of GOT than anything else.
Your theory holds as much water as a sieve. It leaks nonsense rather than water though.
Still using the one-liners I see. People who are aware of the extent of God's creation, that is the expanding universe, are not flat earthers. Why would you think people who see beyond your unrealistic version of the world are the ones who believe blindly? That is quite the diversion you offer and of course it could be described as personal in nature.
When people fall back on the you are dumb, ignorant, uneducated, stupid or whatever reason for not believing as someone else does (you in this case), it becomes nothing more than an ad hominem fallacy. People, again you in this case, do this when they reject or criticize another point of view based on their own reasoning and lack of solid evidence of what they say.
People are not all living in the backwoods in caves somewhere and it is more than obvious that 'people' always question or we would not have the flat earth society telling us the earth is surrounded by a giant ice wall, more reminiscent of GOT than anything else.
Your theory holds as much water as a sieve. It leaks nonsense rather than water though.
P
G R A V I T Y. Does not work on a flat disc.
I wonder if a meteorite big enough would go right through a flat disc or cause it to tip spilling everything on it, off of it.
We would not have night and day if the earth did not spin and we would not have seasons if it did not go around the sun.
You guys are so funny. All these jokes about a flat earth.
I wonder if a meteorite big enough would go right through a flat disc or cause it to tip spilling everything on it, off of it.
We would not have night and day if the earth did not spin and we would not have seasons if it did not go around the sun.
You guys are so funny. All these jokes about a flat earth.
Let's see what the versions say... (thanks to Bible Gateway)
ASV
He hath described a boundary upon the face of the waters, Unto the confines of light and darkness.
CSB
He laid out the horizon on the surface of the waters at the boundary between light and darkness.
CEV
On the surface of the ocean, God has drawn a boundary line between light and darkness.
DARBY
He hath traced a fixed circle over the waters, unto the confines of light and darkness.
DRA
He hath set bounds about the waters, till light and darkness come to an end.
ESV
He has inscribed a circle on the face of the waters at the boundary between light and darkness.
HCSB
He laid out the horizon on the surface of the waters at the boundary between light and darkness.
KJV
He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.
NASB
He has inscribed a circle on the surface of the waters At the boundary of light and darkness.
NET
He marks out the horizon on the surface of the waters as a boundary between light and darkness.
NIV
He marks out the horizon on the face of the waters for a boundary between light and darkness.
NKJV
He drew a circular horizon on the face of the waters, At the boundary of light and darkness.
In response to your assertion, "That is not what Job 26:10 is saying!", it appears that there is plenty of evidence that it is.
ASV
He hath described a boundary upon the face of the waters, Unto the confines of light and darkness.
CSB
He laid out the horizon on the surface of the waters at the boundary between light and darkness.
CEV
On the surface of the ocean, God has drawn a boundary line between light and darkness.
DARBY
He hath traced a fixed circle over the waters, unto the confines of light and darkness.
DRA
He hath set bounds about the waters, till light and darkness come to an end.
ESV
He has inscribed a circle on the face of the waters at the boundary between light and darkness.
HCSB
He laid out the horizon on the surface of the waters at the boundary between light and darkness.
KJV
He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.
NASB
He has inscribed a circle on the surface of the waters At the boundary of light and darkness.
NET
He marks out the horizon on the surface of the waters as a boundary between light and darkness.
NIV
He marks out the horizon on the face of the waters for a boundary between light and darkness.
NKJV
He drew a circular horizon on the face of the waters, At the boundary of light and darkness.
In response to your assertion, "That is not what Job 26:10 is saying!", it appears that there is plenty of evidence that it is.