Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation

Goliath · Jul 2, 2022

Just because something is called a "Gift", this doesn't mean you didn't do something to receive it.
These gifts we receive, have another name, that name is...."Reward".
Is a reward a free gift?
A little research....
The Holy Spirit is a gift from God, But the bible says that you need to do something to receive this gift/reward.....Then Peter said unto them, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
(Acts 2:38)

Action taken?
Repent and be Baptized.
The reward?
The Holy Spirit.

Grace is a gift/reward from God, but Jesus told us we need to keep his commandments to receive this Reward.
.....Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”
(John 14:21)

Action taken?
keep his commandments.
Reward?
The love of God the Father...AKA, Grace.

According to Paul...Eternal life is a gift/reward too.
God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
(Romans 2:6-7)

Action taken?
Good Works
Reward?
Eternal life

Now for those reading this post, who want to understand.
Good Works are not grievous, because they are done out of LOVE. The Works Paul railed against were the Works of the Law, Works which those who were under the Law of Moses, did not do out of Love.

Goliath · Jul 2, 2022

crossnote said:

As I stated on my last post...Just because a gift is free, doesn't mean you didn't do something to receive it. As shown in the examples there.

crossnote said:

Interesting verse...
It appears as though Paul is saying, Good Works have no effect on salvation.
But if you look closer...notice the word "Basis".
He is saying Good Works are not the Basis, of our salvation.
Without the renewing of the Holy Spirit, Good Works have no value.
Question;
How do you think the Holy Spirit renews us?

crossnote said:

Breaks my heart, I wish we could save them all.

Inquisitor · Jul 2, 2022

Goliath said:

I had some difficulty accepting what you wrote.

You regard baptism as some kind of work that you must perform?

As for 'repentance', I read that as turning to Jesus rather than some work.

In each case, to say that we must do something first is wholly erroneous.

Any works you perform have nothing to do with gaining salvation, you cannot earn it.

Romans 8:32
He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?

1 Corinthians 2:12
Now we have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God.

You may have a pile of sin that you have worked hard to amass. Yet, our reconciliation was engineered by Christ alone.

Sorry to poke a pin in your self glory balloon.

Goliath · Jul 2, 2022

Phoneman-777 said:

To be sure, Martin Luther was a man of courage, that I greatly admire. Always found it interesting how MLK, was his name sake...and he showed the same courage. Big admirer of anyone who displays such courage.

And you're right my brother, it's not a sin to be tempted, but...do you win all of these Battles?
You may win some of these battles, but through Christ Jesus, Gods aim....is for you to win the war!
But I do commend you, as I am sure God commends you...for trying to turn from sin. For as you well know, many people believe you don't need to Turn from these temptations. For them, Repent is just a word, a word which requires nothing from the sinner.

Goliath · Jul 2, 2022

Inquisitor said:

Curious....Why do you think people were baptized in water?
Was it just a polite way of saying.."Friend you need a bath"?
Do you believe what it says in (Acts 2:38)?
If you do, how do you get baptized without doing anything? Does someone sneak up on you and throw you into the water, or do you enter the water on your own accord?

Inquisitor said:

Many believe as you do....but unfortunately for many....this is not a matter of majority rule.
For many are called, but few are chosen.”
(Matthew 22:14)

Inquisitor · Jul 2, 2022

Goliath said:

Baptism you say, which baptism are you talking about?

John's baptism was a water baptism, a shadow baptism.

Matthew 3:11
As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Jesus baptizes with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Inquisitor · Jul 2, 2022

Goliath said:

Curious....Why do you think people were baptized in water?
Was it just a polite way of saying.."Friend you need a bath"?
Do you believe what it says in (Acts 2:38)?
If you do, how do you get baptized without doing anything? Does someone sneak up on you and throw you into the water, or do you enter the water on your own accord?

Many believe as you do....but unfortunately for many....this is not a matter of majority rule.
For many are called, but few are chosen.”
(Matthew 22:14)

You have a deep need to gain your own salvation and on your own terms.

Phoneman-777 · Jul 2, 2022

Goliath said:

I've been saying for years - and it's gotten as good a reception from Christians as Jesus did from the Jews - that the rejection, acceptance, and retention of the free gift of salvation is purely a neck-up thing - works has nothing to do with any of it. It's purely a cognitive exercise. Our outward actions merely demonstrate our chosen inward spiritual condition, according to 1 John 2:3-4 KJV.

Know what's the most delightful thing about a long, successful marriage? Both people could have walked away at any time, but they've chosen to stay committed - that's becoming increasingly rare. Alas, the same people who make up our throw away relationship society who can't even spell "commitment" are the same people who fill the churches - which is why the OSAS Licence to Sin was invented.

Phoneman-777 · Jul 2, 2022

Goliath said:

My favorite quote: "A man who has not a cause for which he is willing to die is not fit to live."

Goliath said:

Practice makes perfect! Our heavenly Father knows which of us is struggling to learn to walk the Path of the Just, and sometimes we fall down, but He's right there like a good Father to wipe our tears and help us back up to our feet...and which of us flatly refuses to learn to walk that walk, though all the while calling Him their "Father".

FreeGrace2 · Jul 2, 2022

Goliath said:

This is incorrect. By its very definition, a gift is not earned.

And again, this is incorrect. By its very definition, a reward is EARNED, unlike a gift.

With your flawed definitions, it will be impossible to correctly understand Scripture that mentions either of these words.

FreeGrace2 · Jul 2, 2022

Goliath said:

If anyone can "persist in doing good" as Rom 2:7 indicates, then there would be NO NEED of Jesus and His sacrifice on the cross.

How can you NOT understand that?

When Paul wrote v.6-8 he was making the point that NO ONE can "persist in doing good". It's not possible. Therefore, NO ONE will earn eternal life. That is precisely WHY Paul describes eternal life as a free gift in Rom 6:23. It cannot be earned by humans.

To prove this, Paul wrote Rom 3:9,10, 20, 23, all of which condemns all humans as sinnners.

ONLY IF a human lived their entire life perfectly without any sin would they earn eternal life, per Rom 2:6-8.

I suggest you memorize Rom 3:20 - Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

That is the purpose of the law; to show that "all have sinned and fall short of God's glory. Rom 3:23

Those who base their salvation on doing good works are NOT saved. Paul wrote, "not of works, lest anyone should boast" in Eph 2;9.

In the previous verse, Paul wrote, "we are saved by grace through faith, and that not of ourselves"

Jackson123 · Jul 2, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:

You reject Jesus
Read Matt 25:24-36

Not helping the poor go eternal fire that what Jesus say
Dis Jesus say that people still go to heaven with less diamond on their crown?

Don't make your own verse

FreeGrace2 · Jul 2, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:
So you reject both Jesus and your pastor. How can you love either one when you reject what they say?

Jackson123 said:

You're not geting away with this bit of malarky. You reject John 5:24 that teaches that WHEN a person becomes a believer they possess eternal life. And you reject John 10:28 that teaches that recipients of eternal life (which is when they believe) shall never perish.

You reject Jesus' very clear words.

I have. Many times. And there are NO WORDS that show loss of salvation, or salvation by works.

If you believe that, then you HAVE TO believe that the Bible and especially Jesus, is internally contradicted.

I reject that heresy.

Why don't you just read the clearest words of Jesus about how not to perish?

But no. Not you. You start with much less clear verses that can be taken a number of ways, and ignore the verses that REFUTE your poor interpretation of those verses.

If John 5:24 doesn't teach that eternal life is possesses when one becomes a believer, just what was Jesus saying there?

And, if John 10:28 doesn't teach that recipients of eternal life shall never perish, just what was Jesus saying there?

You are the one who makes up malarky.

I stand firmly by the very clear verses of Jesus about WHEN a believer possesses eternal life and the result of receiving eternal life.

That means NONE of the verses you quote can mean what you claim they mean.

Jackson123 · Jul 2, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:

How you need clearest than this

Matt 25
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels

Into eternal fire

Is that mean heaven with less diamond in the crown?

Jackson123 · Jul 2, 2022

Jackson123 said:

Why Jesus put those people to eternal fire or hell

Read what Jesus say the reason

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

Not do or not help the poor

Hmm Jesus contradict Himself
He teach salvation by helping the poor?

FreeGrace2 · Jul 2, 2022

Jackson123 said:

It means unbelievers will be cast into the lake of fire. It has NOTHING to do with lifestyle.

No one is saved by lifestyle changes.

All are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. Period.

When a person becomes a believer they are given eternal life. John 5:24
When a person is given eternal life, they shall never perish. John 10:28

Yet, you reject both of these very clear verses.

You believe that eternal life is not given until the end of one's life, which is contradictory to Jesus' words.
You believe that a saved person CAN perish, which is contradictory to Jesus' words.

So, there you are.

crossnote · Jul 2, 2022

Goliath said:

The whole concept of grace is unearned...

Romans 11:6 (KJV) And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Goliath said:

There is no word 'basis' in Titus 3:5, but Paul does tell us on what 'basis' we are saved and that is His mercy.

Besides His mercy? Through His Word and Spirit

posthuman · Jul 2, 2022

Goliath said:

the topic of rewards vs the free gift is interesting -- but with regard to whether something can be called a gift when you have to do something to earn it -- how can Paul write this if we somehow earn salvation?

What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

“Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,

And whose sins are covered;

Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

(Romans 4:1-8)

that seems pretty clear to me -- i am not saved by anything i did or do, but because i believe God who gave Himself to purchase me with His own blood. why would Paul be so careful to mark out a distinction between doing anything to gain salvation and receiving it as a free gift, if it's not so?

Jackson123 · Jul 2, 2022

posthuman said:

the topic of rewards vs the free gift is interesting -- but with regard to whether something can be called a gift when you have to do something to earn it -- how can Paul write this if we somehow earn salvation?

What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

“Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,

And whose sins are covered;

Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

(Romans 4:1-8)

that seems pretty clear to me -- i am not saved by anything i did or do, but because i believe God who gave Himself to purchase me with His own blood. why would Paul be so careful to mark out a distinction between doing anything to gain salvation and receiving it as a free gift, if it's not so?

How about Matt 25
Jesus saved people because they help the poor
Abraham believe than work hard walk more than 2000 mile brought all his animal move to israel

posthuman · Jul 2, 2022

Jackson123 said:

many people travel and help the poor, but are not saved
is anyone who believes the gospel unsaved?

Paul is not saying do nothing. but he says Abraham was called righteous for believing - not for doing anything.

Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation

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